Peter Carroll's Trojan Family

by Nestor on Nov 3, 2005 8:58 AM PST in Football

Aaah - "Trojan Family." One of the favorite monikers of Peter Carroll and his coaching staff on the recruited trail, egged on by the rabid, delusional freaks worshipping the Trojan horse. Well, this seems to be a nice run down of the "Trojan Family" of alleged thugs and criminals under Peter Carroll:

The (Trojan - Ed.) alumni will allow horrible behavior, heck, they are bankrolling it, as long as PC wins. Here are just a few of the known indescretions of the team in the PC era:

Marcell Almond - 3 separate fights (no disciplinary action by PC)

Cassell and Lienart get in a frat fight (not with each other) - no disciplinary action by PC

Chauncy Washington breaks a kids jaw - no disciplinary action by PC

Winston Justice arrested for soliciting a prostitute - PC makes him run laps (not making this up)

Manny Wright arrested for beating up his girlfriend - PC sends him to bed without pizza (again, not making this up)

Winston Justice tries to intimidate a fellow student by flashing a gun (which the other student didn't know was fake) - no disciplinary action by PC

Herschel Dennis throws a party in which alcohol and drugs are present. A woman believes she was drugged and gang raped. PC suspends Dennis for three games and promises full cooperation with the authorities. Every player at the party refuses to cooperate with the police, PC takes no action against them even though they made him a liar.

Steve Smith breaks a teammates jaw over an unpaid gambling debt - no disciplinary action by PC, unless saying "boys will be boys" is considered disciplining them

LenDale White beats up a freshman teammate for saying he wanted to prove he was a better player than White - no disciplinary action taken by PC

Eric Wright is arrested for rape, police find over 100 Ecstacy tablets in his apartment. Neither he nor his roommate (another FB player, forget who) will tell the police who the drugs belong to. No action taken by PC against either player.

Mark Sanchez and Brian Cushing get in a fight at a party - no disciplinary action taken by PC

And those are only the ones we know about. Your program has one of the worst off the field history of any school, but the alumni don't care, and never will care, as long as you keep winning.

Again, just to repeat Peter Carroll still hasn't suspended his out of control freshmen LB, who just pounded a fellow student on campus. So when will exactly the GameDay crew talk about the lack of control at ole USC?

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Mostly Wrong

It must make you feel good to actually believe all that, but here's the facts:

Marcell Almond - fights took place before PC. He was suspended for a full season and returned under PC and was never involved in anything again.

Cassell and Lienart get in a frat fight (not with each other) - never happened.

Chauncy Washington breaks a kids jaw - he did this WHILE IN HIGH SCHOOL and was suspended by the school.

Winston Justice tries to intimidate a fellow student by flashing a gun (which the other student didn't know was fake) -- um, he was suspended for an entire season.

Herschel Dennis throws a party in which alcohol and drugs are present. A woman believes she was drugged and gang raped. PC suspends Dennis for three games and promises full cooperation with the authorities. Every player at the party refuses to cooperate with the police, PC takes no action against them even though they made him a liar -- Of course they fully cooperated. Nothing happened at the party that warranted charges.

Steve Smith breaks a teammates jaw over an unpaid gambling debt - no disciplinary action by PC, unless saying "boys will be boys" is considered disciplining them--Byrd's jaw broke after the two were wrestling and he fell down and hit his jaw. It was an accident.

LenDale White beats up a freshman teammate for saying he wanted to prove he was a better player than White - This never happened.

Eric Wright is arrested for rape, police find over 100 Ecstacy tablets in his apartment. Neither he nor his roommate (another FB player, forget who) will tell the police who the drugs belong to. No action taken by PC against either player--Wright was kicked out of school.

Mark Sanchez and Brian Cushing get in a fight at a party - Again, some guy confronted Cushing at a party thrown by Sanchez and Cushing fought back. Sanchez did not get into a fight.

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't guys who get in trouble at USC. I'm saying it happens everywhere. But for you to spread these falsehoods isn't very classy. I know you don't lik USC, but does it make you feel good to disseminate something that isn't true? Can't you hate USC yet be intellectually honest?

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 10:22 AM PST reply actions

It doesn't take a rocket science

to figure out that there is a clear cut pattern of disturbing behavior among Carroll's football players. They are getting into fights, beating up fellow students, threatening other students, and being accused of rape (multiple times). Your defense of USC and Carroll (eventhough you claim to be an impartial Heisman observer, lol) pretty much sounds like those Miami supporters from the 90s who were sticking up for Erickson's corrupt program. Again has Carroll suspended Rey Maualuga yet? Let us know when that happens.

by Nestor on Nov 3, 2005 10:34 AM PST up reply actions

Look

I am an impartial observer on the Heisman. I also think I am a pretty fair guy, since I have defended UCLA and the Pac-10 on numerous occasions on my blog. I am not a partisan on everything I write about, but, I am a USC alum and I think your attacks in this case are a little unfair. I have granted that USC athletes are getting into a lot of trouble lately. There seems to be at least one or two of these incidents every year. I have also said that it is something that happens everywhere and recently happened a lot at UCLA. But I don't think you can relate this stuff to Miami, despite how much you want it to be so. I also pointed out the numerous falsities that you distributed on your blog today about USC 'incidents' which, if you read the string on the Bruin board from which you got it, even some Bruins (like Derf 18) are honest enough to admit are not true. So, yes, I am stepping out of my Heismanpundit shoes for a little bit to point out what I think is an unfair attack on my alma mater. I know you are a UCLA guy and you hate SC. That doesn't mean you can't be intellectually honest about things.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 11:34 AM PST reply actions

And ...

All we are doing is pointing out the stories floating around UCLA message boards, and putting them right up front so that journalists who are coming across this site, can read it, do their own invesigating reporitng and find out what is going on. For once we'd like the LA media to be covering the stories of Trojan transgressions with the same tenacity they were covering the UCLA ones during Toledo's last few years. If that bothers you as Trojan grad, then tough luck. We have no problems admitting our program has had it share of problems under Toledo, but we have made a concerted effort to address those problems and one of the main reasons he was fired. We don't see any concern coming out of the USC administration concerning the casual attitude of Peter Carroll towards his football players tendency to get in trouble. Something is rotten over there. And if us talking about it bothers you, tough luck Trojan. Don't expect a Bruin to show compassion when Trojans are having problem. We never asked you to "defend" UCLA. We can do it on our own.

by Nestor on Nov 3, 2005 11:46 AM PST up reply actions

What are you talking about here?

Where did Derf18 exactly say that it wasn't a good run down. He actually said the opposite with just one exception:

Nice memory, hj... but to be fair, Washington's jaw breaking incident happened before he got to suc

Stop making things up HP. Keep smoking Leinart and Bush's popsickles.

by bluestreet on Nov 3, 2005 12:18 PM PST up reply actions

yes

He did have enough intellectual honesty to acknowledge that at least one of the points was unfair.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 12:33 PM PST up reply actions

wow

okay dude. So you admit that you don't have a problem floating false information. Great.

I think the media has been covering Trojan transgressions very closely. All you had to see was the daily stakeout of TV reporters at USC practice during the Dennis and Wright cases to know that. And you wouldn't know about any of it if it hadn't been covered.

It doesn't bother me that you talk about any of it. I don't expect any compassion, either. The USC-UCLA rivalry does not eat at me like it does at you. I can really care two hoots about what happens at UCLA, except in general I want you guys to at least be a decent team because otherwise it embarrasses the conference.

I just figured that, despite all your hate, you would be intellectually honest. I guess that was foolish.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 11:59 AM PST reply actions

LOL

Where exactly we said we are floating "false" information. We don't know what is true or what is false coming out of USC because we have never heard of any investigating reports looking into all these allegations.

And you say:

I can really care two hoots about what happens at UCLA, except in general I want you guys to at least be a decent team because otherwise it embarrasses the conference.

I just figured that, despite all your hate, you would be intellectually honest. I guess that was foolish.

So that is why you are spending so much time on an unofficial Bruin blog run by UCLA alums. Yes, you don't give a two hoots about UCLA. Okay ... LOL Time for you to look at mirror before questioning our "intellectual honesty." Should have known better before expecting substance from another Trojan. Whatever dude.

by Nestor on Nov 3, 2005 12:07 PM PST up reply actions

again, wow

I cleared up most of those things that you floated. For instance, that Washington hit a guy when he was in high school (which Derf pointed out). In the piece that you put up, PC is then chastised for not suspending him or something. The same piece said that PC did nothing to Eric Wright, yet Wright was kicked out of school. So, if that's not false information, what is? You've never heard ANY investigation concerning WRight? Or Justice? Are you kidding? This is what I mean about your hatred blinding you. Do you want to be an accurate blog or not?

Yeah, I really don't care two hoots about UCLA. I am on a Bruin blog because I happen to go read sites that I link to, ya know? I also read ATL and EDSBS. Occasionally, I will post comments there, too.

If you have to boil everything down to Trojan vs. Bruin, fine. I guess I expected more from you than that. I came over to point out that:

It happens at all schools and
Your rundown this morning was inaccurate.

That's it.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 12:31 PM PST reply actions

Well thanks!

For clearing all that up for us! Now I'd like to somone not named Scott Wolf looking into all the stories and give us the real picture. You know I'd like to hear from someone ... uhm ... not connected to USC.

by bluestreet on Nov 3, 2005 12:43 PM PST up reply actions

How about....

Gary Klein or Todd Harmonson, neither of who went to USC?

What 'real picture' do you want?

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 2:55 PM PST up reply actions

Whatever ...

Yeah we are going to get the truth from homer Trojan beat writers. Okay. Whatever. And we are not going to have to depend on all your off field problems to bring your program down. Your Trojan boys are going to get fucked up December 3rd.

by bluestreet on Nov 3, 2005 2:57 PM PST up reply actions

There you go again HP.

Everybody else does it defense. Thanks for making your point HP. You made ours about Trojans being casual about constant crimes and thuggery committed by Carroll's football team.

by Nestor on Nov 3, 2005 12:52 PM PST up reply actions

I am not...

...casual about it at all.

I was just pointing out that the fact that another school has problems with it is not a reason to crow, since it is bound to happen anywhere, including UCLA.

This does not excuse anything.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 2:57 PM PST up reply actions

Uhh...false is false

As much as I hate to do it, I'm going to have to agree with the HP on this one. Believe me, I hate U$C, I hate their football team, their students, their alumni, and anything that has anything to do with U$C. However, I think the dangerous thing is that by posting something like this (even if you weren't the original author) could lead to a lack of perceived credibility. I did a quick Google search and verified what HP said (though I do think there is something fishy about the sexual assault and jaw-breaking activities going unpunished). Believe me, I am a Bruin through and through, and I hate anything that has to do with U$C, but I think you should stick to posting verified facts or at least your own opinions of U$C. I do like this site and I visit it multiple times a day, because there is a lot of good stuff here. However, by posting stuff that isn't true, it not only makes the authors of this site look less credible, but it gives the U$C fools more fodder to mock us whenever they read stuff like this (or should I say, have it read to them).

by uclawarren on Nov 3, 2005 1:09 PM PST reply actions

Uh ... not so fast

It is not clear whether HP's version of stories are all that accurate. M Wright left the program because he flunked out, it had nothing to do with his legal issues or PC discplining him. And White did get physical with the frosh. All Nestor was doing pointing out or having read to the Trojies the stories that are going around, and we haven't really seen lot of focus on this from the MSM whose nose is too far up SUC's rear end.

by bluestreet on Nov 3, 2005 1:20 PM PST up reply actions

yes so fast

I didn't say anything in my retort about Manuel Wright. Everything else I said was accurate to a tee.

White did NOT get physical with Michael Coleman. They exchanged words, nothing more.

As for the MSM not focusing on these stories, clearly you are getting the information from somewhere. If it's not from the MSM, it ain't from your Deep Throat in Heritage Hall. You are just mad that there, apparently, isn't enough to bring down the program. If that's what you are looking for, then, you may never be satisfied.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 2:53 PM PST up reply actions

thanks

sorry to have you agree with me. Honestly, your point of view was the point of view that, before this whole discourse, I thought was prevalent on this blog. But I was wrong.

BN has been with me many times on trying to overcome the MSM thought about college football in general and West Coast football in particular. Which was why I was surprised that he would reprint things which are provably not accurate. Like you said, it hurts credibility. But, as Nestor said, I'm just a Trojan and should mind my own business.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 2:50 PM PST up reply actions

Well, that is true...

Since you are a Trojan, you should mind your own business... :)

by uclawarren on Nov 3, 2005 3:14 PM PST up reply actions

Wright

Manny Wright left because of grades...Eric Wright is still on the team, but was suspended from the team:

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/04/21/sections/sports/sports/article_489985.php

But that is not my point. Some of these are clearly false, and I think it makes we as Bruins look bad when a UCLA Bruins sports web site prints things that are false. BY ALL MEANS, continue to make fun of the Trojans (btw, unless I missed it, where was the commentary on Manny Wright bursting into tears like a little baby at Miami Dolphins camp?), just don't print things that aren't true. I'm not even defending Pete Carroll or what he does. I think he is a slimeball, and I am not saying he runs a clean program, but this has to do with what is printed on the web site.

by uclawarren on Nov 3, 2005 2:13 PM PST reply actions

Well this is a blog ...

We are few UCLA alums and this is basically our journal posting our thoughts on what is going on in related to UCLA. All I did was put up another Bruin poster's chronology on alleged transgressions by USC football players. This is one of the biggest topic on the Bruin boards. And it should be. There isn't much talk about this in the MSM right now. Not enough. And if you have a problem with that, than it's too bad. Don't read it. No where I wrote that account was the absolute truth. All I wrote that it appeared to be decent run down of "Trojan family" of alleged thugs and criminals in their football program. That's all. I'd like to hear from other Bruins if this is not a topic worthy of bringing up. I don't hear too many objections.

by Nestor on Nov 3, 2005 2:31 PM PST up reply actions

Sure...

NOW you put the word 'alleged' in.

You did not use the word 'alleged' when you first posted it, did you?

Hey, like I said, feel free to do what you want. But, if I want to read about UCLA, why wouldn't I just go to a message board instead?

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 2:59 PM PST up reply actions

Uhm ...

I actually did. Now you are seeing things.

by Nestor on Nov 3, 2005 3:01 PM PST up reply actions

sorry

I guess you did. But it certainly wasn't very prominent.

by Heismanpundit on Nov 3, 2005 3:01 PM PST up reply actions

That is so weak*

by bluestreet on Nov 3, 2005 3:02 PM PST up reply actions

It is worth bringing up

I think it is worth bringing up. If there are things that are nefarious activities going on in the USC program (which I know there are), I want to see it in bold 42-point font. I actually do think that stuff like this goes on there, but if you put stuff up and then people can prove that it isn't true, it just makes you guys look bad, that's all. And then when you find legit stuff, people will think that what you are putting up there might not be true. I know you didn't write this stuff, and that you took it from someone else's message, but when the shit rains down on USC (and you know it will) and you write about it, I hope people don't dismiss it as being false. I like reading anything bad that I can about USC, but I'm sure that if someone put up all these things on a USC blog about UCLA football players that wasn't true, I wouldn't like it. Having said all that, keep up the good stuff you guys are doing...no need to be mad at a fellow Bruin.

by uclawarren on Nov 3, 2005 2:48 PM PST reply actions

Sorry guys, gotta agree with HP

The SUCsters have significant issues with discipline, but your illogical reasoning here kinda eats at me. You're QUOTING whoever it was that posted the original thread, describing it as a "nice run down" - which is wording that clearly implicates you support its conclusions.

I know the L.A. Times is filled with hacks, but c'mon now - scandals like that are the stuff of sportswriter dreams, no matter the program! There's no quicker ticket to notoriety within the business than to break a major scandal (just ask Matt Drudge). The reason you don't hear about many of these incidents is because they're completely unrelated to the $C program.

For example: Washington's breaking a fellow high school student's jaw. Is this reason to condemn the Trojans? Not really. It's not Carroll's job to discipline him. As for recruiting him: he was a 4-star RB recruit in 2002, whose scout.com page never even mentioned the incident or discipline problems of any type.

Though amusingly enough: "To tell you the truth I was more of a UCLA fan growing up but USC turned me over. The Trojan coaches came after me hard and once I went to the school I started to really like them. There is just a vibe about the school, I can't explain it. When I walk on the campus it feels like home." (From a Scout.com interview on his commit day) Academic eligibility problems caused him to miss most of 2004. cough

The point is, UCLA probably recruited him just as hard as SC did and would have almost certainly taken him (same year as MoDrew, but a much different profile - 6'1, close to 200 lbs in high school... would have given UCLA another power-style back, probably). A lot of the 'examples' given in your quoted portion are purportedly untrue (if the only thing I have to go on is an unsubstantiated rumour, sorry, but both my job and my personal sensibilities would compel me to do otherwise), and those that are are often intentionally misapplied.

I'd take the UCLA program's current organizational health over that of USC's any day of the week. But that doesn't mean that we can go ascribing imaginary problems to it.

And it doesn't matter if you're just a few guys posting in your online journal - you say yourself you hope that 'L.A. journalists read your post.' That should be the last thing you want with this, as any L.A. sportswriter is immediately going to know this is message-board junk and just start ignoring the site. They're stupid, but they're not mentally incapacitated (aside from Bill Plashcke, of course).

by Underbruin on Nov 3, 2005 9:30 PM PST reply actions