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Will Dorrell take the Pom Pom route?

So news came out last Friday how two UCLA freshmen football players, Jess Ward (DT) and John Hale (LB) were involved in an off campus fight back in February. The Daily News had more details over the week. The Daily Bruin had more yesterday:

According to Annemarie Pace, deputy district attorney in San Bernardino, the alleged victim had recently provided the district attorney's office with detailed information of that February evening.

"It was based on an in-depth interview with the victim," Pace told the Daily News. "It was just about involvement of the two UCLA students. It was a more detailed account."

Casey Coniglio, a former teammate of Ward's at Rim of the World High School in Lake Arrowhead, and Franco Serrato were arrested on Feb. 20 for their involvement in the incident.

According to court records, the complaint to the police was filed by Nicholas Mierau. Pace told the Daily News that Mierau was taken to the hospital after the incident and diagnosed with a non-displaced fracture of the nasal bone.

If Hale and Ward are cleared of the felony charges, both players could still face civil lawsuits from the alleged victim, sources told the Daily News.

Hale and Ward have their next court date on May 17.
We had a spirited discussion here on whether or not Dorrell should have suspended these two players on an interim basic back in February when he first heard about, but we were pretty much unanimous in agreeing that Dorrell should put these kids on interim suspension now, pending outcome in their legal proceedings.

As of today we still have not heard anything yet from Dorrell. Nothing. Meanwhile, UCLA football's image is taking a beating in the elite blogs in the national college football blogosphere. The M Zone lampooned Dorrell's program, as did the boys over at EDSBS. And we deserve this ridicule. Unlike the USC football blogs, which are basically mouthpieces of the Heritage Hall PR machine, we are not going to make excuses for these stories coming out of the UCLA football program.

We'd like to see KD taking swift and decisive action sending a strong message that he will not tolerate even the hint of off-campus shenanigans from the UCLA football program. So the question is will Dorrell seek accountability and impose discipline in his football program or take the easy way out acting like Pom Pom (Phillip Fulmer of the West Coast) making excuses for his players in the football program? We will find out this week whether Dorrell can impose his will as a strong and decisive leader of this program off the field, which he has (to date) failed to display on the field:


Lisa Blumenfeld/Getty Images

Dorrell should put these two freshmen on interim suspension soon.

We are going to be watching this very closely.

GO BRUINS.

0 recs  |  Comment 8 comments

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Consistency
I'm happy to see that we are being consistent, and applying the same standards to Dorrell as we apply to Carroll.  This is a difficult issue for coaches, and I think it would behoove teams and their supporters to take a strong and uniform approach in response to these issues, both because it's, I believe, in their ultimate self interest, and, more importantly, because it's the right thing to do.

Dorrell has had a pretty good record on this issue to date.  His delay in suspending these guys reminds me of his delay in firing Kerr.  I hope he doesn't blow it.

by Cocoman25 on May 9, 2006 11:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dorrell ...
to his credit was pretty decisive when the Medlock story broke. He suspended him immediately.

Again in this case Dorrell should suspend this kids on an interim basis now before things are hashed out via the legal systems. He would send a clear message to recruits all across Southern California and rest of the country that UCLA will not tolerate any off field tomfoolery unlike its rival from South Central.

Really surprising to see him lollygagging over this story.

by Nestor on May 9, 2006 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only possible excuse
I could even remotely accept for this is that this is the offseason and suspending them from the team doesn't carry any real football related consequence.  Even so, there should at least be some sort of official word from KD explaining how he intends to handle the situation.  Speaking of stupidity, it's good to see Hannah Jun return from injury after Medlock's bonehead move, possibly in time to help us go for 100.

by scittles on May 9, 2006 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't think ...
that excuse even flies.

KD can issue a statement saying that these two players are suspended from the program, while retaining their scholarships.

This way they can keep going to classes, work out at the Wooden Center, however would be off limits from the team's training facility (Acosta) and participating in any unofficla team works out at Spalding Field.

Any statement from Dorrell other than making excuses for these two players would be nice.

by bluestreet on May 9, 2006 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Running a clean program
(in)action speaks louder than words.

I'd think KD would do the smart thing and put these kids on interim suspension by the end of this week.

Then again smart and Dorrell ... well you get the picture.

by bluestreet on May 9, 2006 11:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Other Side of the Issue
I have no loyalty to Dorell.

But, I am loyal to the Constitution.

At the risk of being flamed --

Everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

That does not mean that these athletes are immunce from administrative action. But, it should mean that there ought to be strong facts to support any action against anyone charged with a crime -- particularly if that action is taken BEFORE any of the  court hearings that will allow them to challenge the charges.

Unless you all know more than was in the press, none of us actually know what happened. What we do know is that the incident happened in one player's family  home -- and there are reports that the players tried to move it outside.

One is allowed to use force to defend one's home or to defend others from attack.

Does anyone know what actually happened?

Even the assistant  DA, who made the public statement, did not justify the charging decision with a specific statement of facts. The players were not charged, initially. That means that the investigating officers at the scene did not find sufficient facts to recommend charges. It appears that a subsequent interview with the alleged victim is the entire basis for the charges; those of us with experience in the criminal justice system look at those types of charges with a dose of skepticism.

I am very uncomfortable demanding action against these players without knowing what they did. The fact that they were charged by an assistant district attorney means little to me. People are frequently arrested and charged only to have the charges ultimately dismissed. Charges mean nothing. Proof and convictions mean more.

There will be cases when coaches know enough, at the time of the arrest, to take early action. And, they should.

Medlock's case is one of them. He admitted driving drunk. He admitted being in an accident. The only open issue was whether he left the scene to escape or he left it to get help. Initially, the report was that he was fleeing. Later, it was corrected to note that he was seeking help. Dorell sanctioned him for the drunk driving and accident; those facts were not contested.

Dorrell did the right thing in Medlock's case.

And, until I know more, I am willing to wait to see if he has done the right thing in these cases; he has talked with the players. he knows what happened; we do not.

He had the evidence necessary to make an instant decision on Medlock. And, he had a reason to; we were days away from a game.

In this case, I doubt he has enough facts to act; and, there is no reason that he cannot wait until we know more.

At the expense of being even more politically incorrect on this site, I want to raise  my concern about what happened at Duke. The rush to justice may well prove an embarassment to all of those quick to charge, suspend and cry for blood. From what I've seen, there is a very good chance that the charges are not true. If the student athletes are proved guilty they should be punished to the full extent of the law. But, if they are, in fact, innocent, how will we ever give them back what they have lost?

It is easy to use both sets of allegations as a hammer against people and schools we don't like -- Dorell and Duke.

There is more than ammunition to use against Dorell and Duke. We need not brush aside the Constitutional protections that protect these young men -- until the justice system convicts or clears them -- just to attack a coach and/or school we don't like.

I do not come to these opinions lightly. For 30 years I was a member of a law school faculty. During that time, I both taught and practiced criminal law, Constitutional law, and several other related courses.

The Constitution has taken enough beatings.

Go after Dorell for his coaching, recruiting, time management skills, and his lack of leadership. But, until you know more, don't use these two players against him.

Until you know the facts -- doing so is not fair to them.

sjh

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 9, 2006 6:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

thanks for the post 66
Great post 66. I understand "due process" quiet well. But I submit to you this is also about a PR war with those guys cross town and if played skillfully Dorrell and the football program can send a very clear cut message.

Putting these kids on a symbolic "interim suspension" may not mean much in reality. All it will do will probably keep those kids away from the Acosta Training Facility and from any team workouts in Spalding. No big whoop. But it would have sent the signal that Dorrell and UCLA is extremely serious about installing discipline in their program unlike their counterparts at USC.

And we are talking about UCLA internal administrative procedure here, not the proceedings  in our criminal justice system. UCLA can impose its own internal standards for its athletes which can be stricter sending a strong, uncompromising message that it will not tolerate its student athletes (who are getting thousands of dollars worth of scholarships and access to education from one of the greatest universities in the world) any kind of off campus shenanigans.

And you mention the Duke incident. If anything the Duke incident demands a more aggressive action from UCLA in this instance. Because it looks like it's the underestimating of the gravity of the situation that got Duke in so much hot water. From the NY Times:

Duke University officials, from the campus police to the highest administrative levels, failed to grasp the seriousness of an accusation that white lacrosse players raped a black woman at a party in March and did not respond quickly enough, said an outside report released yesterday.

The report, by William G. Bowen, a former president of Princeton University, and Julius Chambers, a former director of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund Inc., cited "a gap in communications that is extraordinary," noting that the Duke police force had failed to alert administration officials to the racial component of the case.

Two lacrosse players were indicted last month on charges of first-degree forcible rape, first-degree sexual offense and kidnapping. Their lawyers have said they are not guilty. The district attorney has said he is also gathering evidence to indict a third person.

The report also criticized administration officials as being too heavily influenced by Durham police reports that the woman "kept changing her story and was not credible" and that "this will blow over." The review added that the university should have conducted its own investigation.

So the right thing to do here would be to put these kids on interim suspesnion (for getting themself involved in this kind of situation) while the legal proceedings are being sorted out.

by Nestor on May 10, 2006 6:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good post
First off, I wouldn't even think of flaming you for such a thoughtful post.  

And I don't think of this issue as simply a club with which to bludgeon Karl Dorrell.  

In my mind, its more about consistency (given that I've spilled more than my fair share of ink pointing out discipline problems over at USC) and what's right.

In this case, based upon what I know, I think it's would be right for Dorrell to suspend the guys at this point.

Nestor makes some good points, particularly that we aren't really evaluating what should or shouldn't happen in our criminal justice system.  Of course, these kids are innocent until proven guilty.  But, this isn't about their right to freedom prior to conviction; we're debating whether they should be allowed to continue to enjoy the privilege of playing college football under UCLA and NCAA rules.

And UCLA needs to be mindful of its obligations under NCAA regulations, which, for good or for bad, can result in severe penalties to programs on much less proof, and under far more onerous rules, than in the criminal justice context.

It also looks like these kids, at a minimum, put themselves into a bad situation by throwing a house party, etc.  And I think it's prudent for a coach to take action in these kind of situations, at least once the police are involved and arrests are made, to show these players and others that the rules mean something.

Of course, everyone needs to be careful about this kind of stuff.  But we have a choice in where to strike this delicate balance, and I'm more comfortable with taking some action now before these kinds of problems begin to grow and fester like they did under Toledo and have under Carroll.

by Cocoman25 on May 10, 2006 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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