Not just a basketball school

by Nestor on Jun 15, 2006 9:40 AM PDT in Football Comment 16 comments

Every now and then you will see someone (while defending Dorrell or making excuses for his mediocrity) asserting that the expectations of UCLA alums. from Karl Dorrell (to win the Pac-10 and beat SC) is totally unreasonable because UCLA is basketball school. They claim UCLA is not really a big deal when it comes to college football so it is not fair to expect KD to beat SC and make legit runs for the Pac-10 titles.

Well these guys are not well versed on the history of UCLA football. You see we have already debunked the ridiculous notion that UCLA is not a football school. Our football history which includes 18 Conference Championships, and 1 National Championship indicates that we are not like Duke, Carolina, or Kentucky, elite basketball schools with no football tradition. Now check out these all time rankings from AP, which ranks college football teams since the poll was first released on October 19, 1936. It further bolsters the point we have made all along on BN that UCLA has a history of being one of the better college football programs in the country. At least the all time rankings history backs up that claim:

	School	Times Ranked	Times Ranked #1	Last Time Ranked #1
1	Michigan	729	34	January 3, 1998
2	Ohio State	703	73	January 4, 2003
3	Notre Dame	689	95	November 16, 1993
4	Oklahoma	628	95	December 1, 2003
5	U$C	623	81	December 5, 2005
5	Nebraska	623	70	October 23, 2000
7	Texas	607	42	January 5, 2006
8	Alabama	605	31	January 2, 1993
9	Tennessee	533	18	January 5, 1999
10	Penn State	532	21	October 13, 1997
11	UCLA	473	7	October 25, 1988
12	Florida	452	25	October 7, 2001

HT to CFR for pointing us to this list.

So UCLA is ranked no. 11, higher than powerhouses such as Miami, FSU, Georgia, Auburn, LSU etc. when it comes to being ranked by AP. Last time we were ranked no. in the AP poll was in October of 1988, before Aikman and Donahue choked away a home game against Rosenbach and Mike "It's Rolling Baby" Price. Since 1988 UCLA was also ranked no. 1 in another poll that matters (these days). UCLA was the no. 1 team in the inaugural BCS poll in 1998, before we crashed and burned against Miami on December 5, 1998.

Anyways didn't mean to bring up the painful memories of that Melsby "fumble." But I did want to bring up the poll to show how we have a history of being a football school. We have a rich history of Rose Bowl wins, big wins in meaningful bowl games, the 8 game win streak over USC, and top-10 rankings, which Dorrell's mediocrity (last year's fluke 10 win season notwithstanding) has turned into a distant memory. As I have said before if there is no discernible progress this year, he will need to go away (resign or get fired).

GO BRUINS.

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Nice Job, Nestor

I have had many an argument about UCLA being a just a "Basketball" school and football was an afterthought. The facts are always there to prove otherwise.

Now if we could just find a coach who could.........

Did I mention I hat ND?

GO BRUINS

by artybruin on Jun 15, 2006 10:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well ...

people who are defending the ongoing mediocrity of UCLA football would like to claim that UCLA football is an afterthought and that we don't have a tradition when it comes to football.

Clearly facts indicate a different reality.

by Nestor on Jun 15, 2006 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's that attitude that has made us into just...

a basketball school. Well ok an everything but football school. And there are many to blame for perpetuating that myth. Fans and media alike have a hand in creating this self-fulfilling prophesy. The past 7 years are (almost) entirely endemic of this apathy towards UCLA football. When we have had good teams people have treated it as an aberration not the norm. Our players really can't play above expectations, and expectations are decidedly low as that daily bruin article showed. That is part of what I like about this site. Everyone expects great things from the program, especially beating SuC every year. What I expect from the history explained in this article is that we should average 11th, maybe get a title once or twice a decade, and never fall lower than 22nd. We should basicly be a solid contender year in and year out. If we don't see that progress this year we need to find someone who can meet those goals, or even excede them.

by isodore on Jun 15, 2006 12:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yeap

You nailed it here:

What I expect from the history explained in this article is that we should average 11th, maybe get a title once or twice a decade, and never fall lower than 22nd.

That is why last year's top-15 finish was not some kind of great accomplishment. It was a decent average accomplishment by previous UCLA standards. Dorrell has had two horrific years and an average one.

An above average performance by UCLA standards would be to finish at or near the top of the conference, beat SC, and then win a victory in a new year's day bowl game. Last time that happened was the 1997-98 football season. 1998-99 season was great too eventhough it was tarnished by the heartbreaking losses against Miami and the Rose Bowl disappointment against Wisconsin. KD hasn't even come to close matching those marks.

by Nestor on Jun 15, 2006 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice post Nestor.

How come last year isn't withstanding? That's like when Big Ten people say they're better than the PAC-10 at bball, and when we tell them to count the titles, they say that UCLA's don't count.

by True Blue and Gold on Jun 15, 2006 1:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You're joking, right?

That's hilarious.

Still, for my two cents, I didn't know we had such a great basketball tradition until I was nine or ten. The football teams of the early 80s were what influenced me to be a Bruin fan.

by bruinbabe2000 on Jun 15, 2006 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to be clear...

Melsby's knee was down.

by SactoBruin on Jun 15, 2006 2:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

A little Devil's advocacy...

Those are some telling stats for sure, although, the number which also stands out for me is the one in that fourth column. We have the 3rd worst #1 ranking percentage (of the top-25 teams), with only Arkansas and Clemson worse off than UCLA. That sounds pretty damn mediocre to me, and not what I would expect from a school with a great football tradition.

Don't get me wrong, I think we consistently have just about the most balanced athletics program in the nation, however, I personally think we have a ways to go in proving our football tradition. For me, football tradition goes much deeper than win/loss percentages, rankings, etc. It's the aura that surrounds the program and it's followers, and frankly, UCLA doesn't quite have it. Nowhere was this more evident to me, then when I found myself at the 1994 Rose Bowl game, sitting in the student section of our own home stadium, almost completely SURROUNDED by crazed Wisconsin fans.

I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but just thought I'd give my 2 cents...

by norcalbruin95 on Jun 15, 2006 3:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No flaming needed nocal

it's a fair point.

But you have to consider what other teams are below us. We are placed above some football crazy schools in this list. That is impressive considering how pathetically our administration has treated our football program which just like the basketball program has the natural advantages of being in the epicenter of the richest recruitng base in the country.

I was at the Rose Bowl during that 1994 game. I was at the Rose Bowl (with Menalaus I may add) in 1999 as well. The bandwagon no show of UCLA "fans" were disgraceful. But I submit it's not any different from the behavior of the Trojan "fans" who were staying away from the Coloseum during the stints for Smith, Robinson, and Hacket.

We have all the tools to become a great program in college football. We are one of the better ones already shitty coaching we have had endure since the departure of Dick Vermeil.

Now if you bring in a coach like Spurrier or Butch Davis or perhaps more realistically bring in someone like Coach Mike Leach from Texas Tech, I'd bet you Pom Pom will be crapping in his pants (just like Lute is soiling his right now).

We have had dam good track record in terms of our W-L records, bowl history, conference championshps (of a power conference) that gives us a lot of ammunition to argue that UCLA is a damn good football program and should always be performing as one of the better ones in college football.

by Nestor on Jun 15, 2006 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some great points...

and I think we still end up at the same conclusion. We need a head coach which can build a program to a much higher standard. The fact that the the top-tier local talent would prefer to play in South Central and live with the threat of getting capped/assaulted on a daily basis only to ride the bench for 2 years vs. spending 4 glorious years in Westwood, playing in the most beautiful stadium on Earth just boggles my mind.

We need someone we can believe in. If only the administration would get it's head out of it's ass and hire someone respectable...

by norcalbruin95 on Jun 15, 2006 4:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Technical term

I believe the term is:

"Rectal Craneal Inversion"

........and he retires at the end of June.

by artybruin on Jun 15, 2006 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Football tradition

The real football tradition is to be a pretty good team with an inability to get to the elite level that is expected from every other Bruin team despite semi-regular trips to the top 10 and the Rose Bowl, but not be so bad that a coaching change would be made.

Just counting AP Top 25 appearances masks this as it counts being ranked in the top 5 or top 10 the same as it does to be ranked 20-25.

If you weight year end AP rankings for the past 30 years, starting with Donahue's first year as head coach, UCLA is the 22nd best program (and 3rd best in the Pac 10 behind SC and Washington) during this period. However, we are slipping over time as we were 11th for the first 10 years of Donahue's tenure and 16th for his entire stint. Toledo oversaw the 19th best program during his 7 years and Dorrell is 32nd so far during his 3 year period and is behind SC, Cal, Washington State and Oregon in the Pac 10.

by hedrick3south on Jun 15, 2006 6:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oct 25th, 1988

I remember that day vividly being ranked number 1 and feeling good about it while standing in line for lunch in Rieber Hall - only because Sproul Hall was undergoing earthquake retrofitting at the time. I remember we didn't stay at #1 for too long, but that memory is always with me. Thanks for bringing back great memories through this site. Not only does it bring back memories specific to sports related events, but also to everything else I was doing during that time.

by hitch89 on Jun 16, 2006 2:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I attribute my teaching career to...

The Miami game in 1998. We win that game, and I'm probably a Senator right now. At least a member of the House. I lost a little bit of my soul that day, and it destroyed my will to succeed. But I'm not bitter...If you'll excuse me, there's a handle of Jack with my name on it...Fucking Edgerin James.

Go Bruins...F@#$% SC... UCLA Fight Fight Fight!

by HomeBruin on Jun 16, 2006 11:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Teaching ...

My wife is a teacher. I think it is the most noble and prestigious profession in America.

I'd take a teacher over a pandering/lying Senator (God knows there are so many of them) any day.

by Nestor on Jun 17, 2006 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Teachers

My wife is also a Teacher and it is amazing to see the students at the begiining of the year and then see their intellectual growth at the end of the year. That challenge is what renews my wife's faith in teaching each year.

by artybruin on Jun 17, 2006 7:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs