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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

Toast Better be Toast

Bumped from the diaries. Hope folks at Morgan Center read this post closely, especially that last line from 77. GO BRUINS. -N

I must admit to a large amount of Dump Dorrell fatigue (not the web site, just the subject).  The reasons for Toast's just and imminent departure are too numerous and have been discussed pretty much without end here on BN and are also taking hold in the MSM. I was putting a personal moratorium on the continued discussion because it seems so obvious why Toast is toast. Unfortunately, I keep getting riled up by the speculation that Toast could still be around next year. So as a cathartic end to my frustration with Toast, I am posting what are expect to be my final rebuttal to what I believe are the only two semi-plausible arguments still out there for retaining Toast: 1) to retain the recruits that have orally committed; and, 2) UCLA can't afford, or won't pay, for a decent replacement, plus cover the cost of Toast's buyout package.

One class of recruits is not going to make or break for UCLA football. Does it make sense to jeopardize the potential for turning around a floundering program by betting on one recruiting class? Also, why does anyone believe that keeping Toast at this point will hold this recruiting class together? With all the open speculation about the future of Toast, even if these commits are in love with playing for Toast (I know that is a dubious assumption, but one that is thrown out by the Dorrellistas), these recruits have to recognize, based on Toast's record to date, that his days as the head coach at UCLA are limited. Since many of these potential incoming freshmen would most likely redshirt next year, they have to rbe thinking that they most likely will never play a down for Toast. Therefore, if Toast is the attraction for them to come to UCLA, for that reason alone, they are probably already reconsidering their commitments.

Point two is even more ridiculous than the "keep the recruits" argument.  UCLA can not afford to keep Toast. Last year (2006) UCLA's football attendance for seven home games was 454,683.  That's an average of almost 65,000 per game. If Toast is retained and the Bruins continue to put a mediocre team on the field, attendance will drop. Assuming that average attendance drops by only 5,000 per game, which is less than 10%, at an average ticket price of around $40, UCLA will lose $200,000 per game in ticket sales. That doesn't even count lost parking and concession revenue or the financial impact from a drop in donations and lost TV revenue (since TV appearances will also most likely go down). I think these are very conservative estimates, but in ticket sales alone, the lost revenue from ten games will pay for Toast's buyout. Also, assuming the program turns around, a 10% increase in attendance is not unreasonable. That could more than pay for the increased salary of a high profile coach. If Dan Guerrero can't be convinced that Toast is toast based on his inept on field performance, then maybe the money argument will make sense to him and his fiduciary responsiblities for UCLA athletics.

While I would love to say this is the last time I will let the Dorrellistas and there unsupported arguments to retain the most inept coach UCLA has had in generations, get under my skin. But as a season ticket holder of more than 30 years, I just can not let stand any chance that Toast will not be gone by December 3. Of course, if he isn't gone, my annual donation to the Bruin Athletic Club and season tickets will be gone from the cofers of the UCLA Athletic Department

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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Bruin77, I know what you're going through
You will read stuff - some really stupid stuff - and you'll start to reply, then you'll say, "Nah, screw it.  It's not worth it."  That will happen enough and you'll think you're cured.

Then a Dorrellista will say "Nyah, nyah, nyah - CTS is great" and you'll snap.  When you wake up, a post bearing your name will have skewered the little Dorrelista, and you'll learn that you haven't been cured.  Only a total excision of the tumor will do it, and that ain't happened yet.

I feel your pain, brother.

by Fox 71 on Nov 14, 2007 10:34 AM PST reply actions  

There is purportedly a new wrinkle
...that DG is under pressure to maintain UCLA's image of showcasing a minority in the football headcoach position.

Thereby DG is facing two possible options:  retain KD or give the job to DW.

I really hope all this is heresay.

Someone please allay my fears, but as long as KD still has a key to his office I do not feel he is anywhere near TOAST.  And the prospect of having TOAST Jr. (DW) to step right in just sends chills up my spines.

by bluegold on Nov 14, 2007 10:38 AM PST reply actions  

Ah, the Race Card
I thought that argument had been put to bed a long time ago. The nice thing about sports is it is very quantifiable. Sure there are some gray areas and some may disagree on the relevance of certain statistics or try to apply qualifiers. But, the bottom line in sports is, are you getting the job done as measured by wins and losses. Toast by any reasonable standard is not getting the job done and based on his five year record it does not appear that he will ever grow into this job.  That should mean by any rational analysis Toast is toast.

As far as replacements go, your concerns regarding DW may be valid.  It could give DG a way to negate the race card being played.  However, UCLA has not had a problem in the past with this issue.  Both Farmer and Hazard were let go (or forced out).  Not only did they share a similar ethnicity with Toast, they were both not just members of the Bruin family, but major contributors to UCLA's athletic success.  While the decision to make a change with both Farmer and Hazard were in a different era and under a different administration, they do demonstrate that at UCLA ethnicity is not the issue, job performance is.

by Bruin77 on Nov 14, 2007 11:20 AM PST up reply actions  

You keep coming up with these
Where are you hearing this stuff? If it is hearsay, don't let it get to you, and don't let it get to us! If it's from Romper Room, just laugh at it. I am so sick of losers who try to keep this program back. It's unbelievable.

by tasser10 on Nov 14, 2007 11:21 AM PST up reply actions  

BruinZone, BRO
from posters who claim to have "sources."

You're right, I shouldn't let them get to me.

But what about the meeting DG had with DW?

KD's gotten me all paranoid.

by bluegold on Nov 14, 2007 11:33 AM PST up reply actions  

I exchanged e-mails with Dienhart
about the meeting between Dy-No-Mite Walker and DG.  He says he got his info from a good source.  And Dienhart used the word "Interim" as I recall.

I will follow up with him and see if there is anything else out there.

by Fox 71 on Nov 14, 2007 11:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't believe
every crap you read on BRO on BZ. Lot of those guys are shameless Dorrell shills who are now desperate.

From what I have heard DG is talking to NO ONE. No one knows. So some people are out there desperately trying to hang on to hope for their Doofus.

by bluestreet on Nov 14, 2007 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I wish DG would make the announcement already
just so i won't have to be half hearted in rooting for a victory against Oregon or SUC. Im halfheated because I am still scared two victories might save his job.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Nov 14, 2007 12:10 PM PST reply actions  

I'm not worried about 2 victories because
KD can't get 2...no effin' way.

I'm worried about NO victories and he still keeps his job.

by bluegold on Nov 14, 2007 12:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Blue, get a hold of yourself!
Come back! Don't go into the darkness! Don't let KD steal your soul and your hope! We will come out of this, I promise you. Think back to the pain of Lavinoma...we got medicine for that, and we will get medicine for this too. Yes, this too shall pass.

by tasser10 on Nov 14, 2007 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

It's just that I've been beaten down
first by Dalis...7 years of Lavin

then Carnesale...5 years so far of KD

I can't take this anymore.  

The hiring of DW would push me over the top.

by bluegold on Nov 14, 2007 1:29 PM PST up reply actions  

OK Bruins
Time for an intervention for bluegold.

Someone cue up the 4th quarter of the Barnes to Stokes game.  That will help for a start.

by Fox 71 on Nov 14, 2007 1:44 PM PST reply actions  

Thnaks!
Yes, that helps immensely.  Beside reliving that great play against $C, what was really nice was following JJ down the field and noticing that there was no silly looking coach with his play sheet stuffed down his pants standing on the sidelines.

by Bruin77 on Nov 14, 2007 5:34 PM PST reply actions  

The longer
you have watched the program and understand the history, the more frustrated you can become. It's ridiculous so many of us have been waiting for a generation to see a rosebowl victory. There are assumptions attendance will fall quite a bit if CTS is retained. This seems logical, but you do have to look at the numbers this year. Maybe the masses just drink the Kool Aid and then accept lowered expectations. If CTS doesn come back for some reason, you can subtract at least one from the attendance figures.

I think most recruits will stay if CTS is fired. These kids hear about the expectations for the program, maybe CTS even sweet talks them. They are impressionable and maybe feel some kind of loyalty, but I think most of the recruits are intelligent enough to see what is happening and realize there isn't any progress. They very likely will redshirt and see positives in starting under a new coach. We may lose a few recruits, but the trade-off is worth it. The current situation is unbelievably aggravating. I can't remember a season in which I felt this much frustration and anger. I think some in the MSM truly love CTS and want to create the appearance that he is in control of his future at ucla. Many of us end up feeling as though we are being held hostage by this so called coach. I firmly believe CTS is here for 2 more games and most recruits will stay. The major issue now is will we relive all of this with another crappy coach.

by Bruins095 on Nov 14, 2007 8:25 PM PST reply actions  

Off Topic
Nestor,

The adds for the Trojans still keeps popping up at the top of the page periodically. I know you don't control it, but it is a bit disconcerting to see it on a Bruin blog.

by artybruin on Nov 14, 2007 8:30 PM PST reply actions  

Dienhart's blog
Even if Dienhart were not an ally regarding CTS, he's a great read.  I asked him a few questions in an e-mail, but haven't received a response yet.

Anyway, here is part of Dienhart's Week 11 awards (emphasis mine):

"Let's do it: My Week 11 awards.

COACHES

Wish I were him: Les Miles, LSU
Glad I'm not him: Randy Shannon, Miami
Lucky bastard: Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern
Poor bastard: Karl Dorrell, UCLA
Desperately seeking a clue: Ron Prince, Kansas State
Desperately seeking a P.R. man: Ron Zook, Illinois
Desperately seeking sunglasses and a fake beard: Jim Tressel, Ohio State
Desperately seeking ... anything: Jeff Jagodzinski, Boston College"

by Fox 71 on Nov 14, 2007 9:31 PM PST reply actions  

The other Mr. WCO
Where is Callahan on that list?  That guy is truly Toast.

I have no love for nor any ax to grind with Nebraska (although I think they have classy fans), but I imagine Neb. fans spit on the ground when someone mentions Callahan.

Maybe Callahan and Norville can team up again next year--somewhere far, far from UCLA.

Someone remind me--exactly what did Dorrell see in Norville that made him think he would be an excellent hire for OC at UCLA?  Just that he would pray to the God of WCO?  Was that it?  It can't be past performance.

by Barnes2JJ on Nov 15, 2007 6:02 AM PST up reply actions  

Past performance was probably it
in that he ran (but did not call the plays) the WCO under Toast 2.0.

by bruinhoo on Nov 15, 2007 9:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Dorrell rumors and logic
I, too, have been reading the "rumors" and the Dohn filed stories which fuel the rumors.  Let's be logical...If Dorrell were to return, would not the Athletic Department put an end to all speculation immediately.  Look at what WSU and U of A did regarding their two losers.  They came out and specifically stated they were retained.  There is no reason on earth to be silent unless Dorrell has/is being fired.  Again, there would be no purpose in being silent.  I really don't think Guerrero is so sadistic that he would let Dorrell face such speculation if he had intended on retaining the Vampire.

by Gary72 on Nov 14, 2007 10:12 PM PST reply actions  

My Stomach Turns Because
I worry that he has yet to make a decision -- that he's waiting to see if we beat Oregon and/or sc.

That makes many of us ambivalent about those two games.

I'll cheer for us and not feel bad if we lose; I hate watching a game that way.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Nov 15, 2007 5:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Fear not
KD is Toast. The only way he is not is if he blows out the next two opponents. So when you're done laughing at that, just come back to earth and realize that he is a goner.

DG is silent because perception is still important, despite Fox's assertions that he can and should be fired today. Waiting until the season ends is, in my opinion, the safest and least controversial way to handle the situation, particularly if we do not go to a bowl game. He will have plenty of ammunition and can use the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force. The Rumsfeld Doctrine would be inappropriate here...speed is not of the essence.

by tasser10 on Nov 15, 2007 10:48 AM PST up reply actions  

CTS
It's long been my fear that UCLA would be afraid to fire CTS in fear that it the issue of race would come to play especially with the all press surrounding the declining number of students who are the same ethnicity of CTS

Race should not factor into this decision, CTS has had five years to prove to us he has what it takes to restore order and bring the football program back to prominence instead we're a mere laughing stock

DeWayne Walker deserves to be a Head Coach one day but not here at UCLA , Our new HC needs to be someone who is a proven winner not someone who is learning on the job

by Bruin10 on Nov 15, 2007 12:42 AM PST reply actions  

Attendance Figures
..aside from the speculation and the citation for 2006, does anyone have attendance figures for the attendance for, say, the years 1999-2006? A URL or URLs would be great.

A work associate (a fellow bruin and Dorrell-despiser) maintains that attendance has been growing and I wanted to verify his asserton..

..moreover, if that is the case, I would want to understand why?

by whp68 on Nov 15, 2007 4:52 AM PST reply actions  

attendance
Attendance has been growing.  There was a lot of anticipation that this was going to be a special year.  They sold the most season tickets ever I believe.  Maybe DG is waiting until we vote with our feet.  Because when it comes down to it, it's got to be a business decision somewhere on his part.  That's what scares me.  The Rose Bowl will be packed for Oregon.  Only a beating will make that look bad to DG.

by BruinAl on Nov 15, 2007 6:02 AM PST up reply actions  

no shows
due to the expectations coming into the year, plus the Notre Dame game at the Rose Bowl, the school did sell a record number of tickets, and has sold out multiple games. I wonder if the number of no-shows to these games could be of some effect (not a large effect on immedate revenue, but a possible sign of future interest in the team?).

If I recall, taking the CTO's word that the ND games was a sell out (dont think it actually was, but...), there were over 15,000 no shows to that game; the sold-out Cal game had between 8-10,000 no shows assuming announced attendance figures are correct.

by bruinhoo on Nov 15, 2007 9:25 AM PST up reply actions  

Latest issue of Bruin Blue
In DG's article he compliments the Marketing Dept & lists the attendance figures starting with 2004.

2004 - 29200
2005 - 30000
2006 - 38600
2007 = 49200

Hope that helps.

by artybruin on Nov 15, 2007 7:52 AM PST reply actions  

I saw that
Also, note that there are zero articles on football in the issue.  And I think DG only mentions football once in passing in his "Dear Reader" note.

Hey Dan, don't you agree that it's a shame that we cannot celebrate football (other than increased ticket sales) during football season?

by Barnes2JJ on Nov 15, 2007 9:06 AM PST up reply actions  

I refused to be sold
And I haven't given in once this year. I was at 13-9, and that is the last time I will see KD as our HC in person!
"Someday we'll look back on this and it will all seem funny" - Boss

by TCbruin32 on Nov 15, 2007 10:17 AM PST reply actions  

Attendance Numbers
Please...let's be real...For years our attendance has been inflated by THOUSANDS of youth give away tickets.  When one combines them with the mass amounts of no-shows, the true numbers are much, much smaller.  Other than the USC games, I can only remember a few  games (during the Toledo streak) where there were almost no no-shows, but yet still thousands of give away tickets to youths in the end zones...

by Gary72 on Nov 15, 2007 4:33 PM PST reply actions  

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