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DW and the spread

Bumped. GO BRUINS. -N

Nestor wanted me to put this up in a diary so I will do my best.  I was responding to a comment that nobody effectively stops the spread offense and that we should therefore not count that against DW.

The problem with the idea that nobody stops the spread is that everyone calls different offenses the spread.  According to ESPN, any team that puts at least 3 wideouts on the field runs the spread.  

Originally, the spread was 4 wideouts, 1 RB and a QB always in the shotgun formation.  The goal of the spread is to spread out the defense so much that the middle of the field is vulnerable to short passes and runs up the middle.

By the ESPN definition, my high school team ran the spread since we never used a tight end or a FB and always had 4 wideouts.  In truth, our offense more closely resembled Spurrier's fun and gun with lots of short passes to the sideline, screen passes, and draw plays on a 3-5 step drop.

Missouri's spread works nothing like the "spread" that Florida or West Virginia run.  West Virginia runs a modified option based on misdirection in the running game that commits the entire defense to the line of scrimmage.  That opens up the field so that even short passes go for at least 25 yards since nobody is covering the WR.

Florida runs a more power running attack that mixes in a lot of misdirection to set up Tebow's deep ball to speedy receivers.  That's the reason that Tebow has so many more passing yards and TD's than Pat White.

Texas Tech's spread more resembles the spread that Northwestern made popular (and Missouri seems to use, I haven't watched them much) in that the QB is basically a pocket passer with 5 receivers spread all across the field.  It is an offense based on creating bad matchups with the defense and getting one receiver (doesn't matter which one) open every play.

The "spread" is so popular because the schemes can be fine tuned to fit your players.  The problem with it is that if you run a fine tuned spread and lose your star player, you become Oregon.  For one moment, think about how fragile teams like WV, FL, Cal, Texas Tech, and Hawaii are(they don't run a traditional spread, but ESPN would call it that if it didn't already have a name).  If any of those teams lose their QB, none of them have good seasons, and can lose to any team.

To make a long story short, I don't want DW anywhere near this team, but he never saw a spread in the No Fun League.  It is possible to stop the spread, but each one is different.  To stop WV, you need a defense with a big front 4, disciplined LB's and fast DB's who don't mind playing the run.  WV's offense runs on a principle similar to Nebraska's old option: commit every player to the run and force them up to the line, then block, confuse, and try and make the last guy miss.

The spread is difficult.  But any coach should be able to find a way to at least slow it down.  There is no excuse for any defensive coach to look clueless against the spread.  Having watched College Football my whole life in entirely unhealthy portions, there is no defense that cannot be countered.  The one that seems the most difficult is Hawaii's because of June Jones' outstanding play calling.  

By the way, I am pretty sure his contract is up this year.  Do you think he would be interested in moving to Westwood?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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one data point I would like to see is
what percentage of teams we played in DWs 2 years have scored more than their season average when they played us, and how many scored less?
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Nov 29, 2007 6:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The spread can be stopped
We just haven't figured out how to do it yet.

Think of what's happened in history.  Clark Shaughnessy developed the T formation.  It couldn't be stopped because it made things happen so much faster that the defense couldn't tell what was coming simply based on the formation.  (Insert appropriate comments about CTS here.)

Then somebody invented the Wing-T.  Then the I formation.  Then the Wishbone.  All of those formations created offensive threats that simply couldn't be stopped.  Then came the Veer (which Coach Vermiel used to great advantage.)  You can't stop the Veer (invented I think by Bill Yeomans.)

But somehow, defensive coaches were able to come up with ways to stop this.

I guess the most recent innovation is the WCO.  It is unstoppable, according to CTS.  But somehow coaches have figured out how to stop it.

Now it's the spread.  I don't have a clue how to stop it.  Apparently Dy-No-Mite has no idea how to stop it, either.  I don't blame him for this.  He's just not the cutting edge defensive mind that we hoped he would be.  He's no Rocky Long or Buddy Ryan.

But someone will figure out how to stop the spread.  It may well be that the next innovation will be the Single Wing.  (I read that the Steelers used the single wing up until 1953.)

I liken the immortal question of whether the spread can be stopped to the obvious corollary - is there life on other planets.  We'll know the answer when we know the answer.  (And that, my friends, is the power of a UCLA education in action.)  Or to use the vernacular - it is what it is.

by Fox 71 on Nov 29, 2007 6:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Completely OT -- Arthur Bryant's
Fox,

Took your advice and went with my trial team to the original Arthur Bryant's on Brooklyn street. Lawyers from Denver, Los Angeles, and me, the Calitexan.

Incredible! I am Q fanatic, make my own rubs and smoke it low and slow. Bryant's puts all Q's to shame.

We had all meats, beans and slaw.

Best pulled pork I've ever eaten.

Thanks for the tip.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Nov 29, 2007 6:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would never have forgiven myself
if I hadn't steered you to Bryants.  Are the big bottles of sauce still in the front window?  And do your fees still sort of stick to the floor?

I trust you were ready to order when you got to the front.  If not, it's sort of like your first time at Tommy's if you hesitate with your order - "OK, out of line. Next."

I have quite a few miles on my Delta account.  I just might go back for a weekend.  

Final comment - in the mid-80's, I was the Insurance/Claims guy for TWA.  We went to renew our policies in the London Market, and I organized a reception where all the underwriters would come (an unheard of thing at that time), but we had a big turn-out because I ordered about a ton of Bryant's ribs and had them flown in.  It was very interesting to see the very proper English waiters serving ribs from their silver trays.  Of course, everyone got sauce all over themselves.

To steer this back to the topic at hand - everyone at Bryants knows their jobs better than CTS knows his.

by Fox 71 on Nov 30, 2007 6:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ack - how Freudian in a note to a lawyer
Do your feet stick to the floor, not your fees

by Fox 71 on Nov 30, 2007 6:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I Leave My Fees on No One's Floor
Probably, going back next week and will try Gates.
sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 1, 2007 12:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gates vs. Bryants
It ain't UCLA vs justsc, but it's a big rivalry just the same.  I can't remember where now, but when I used to drive to Rockhurst College, I passed by "Gates Rib Tech."

My impression (and I don't do impressions) is that Gates is sort of a yuppie Bryants.  Gates might actually mop the floors so you don't thet that nice "voot, voot" when you walk.

Frankly, by the end of the day today, it's more likely that I'll have a nice brisket sandwich from Bryants tnan a victory over justsc.  

by Fox 71 on Dec 1, 2007 12:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have literally increased my
football IQ by reading this post! good job rhapsode!

But, as I've said else where, I don't care for Jones' roster of thugs. I want to win but not at the expense of becoming South Central.

A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden

by MexiBruin on Nov 30, 2007 3:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hawaii recruit pool
When you think of who Jones is capabile of recruiting among the locals on the islands, who are DT's, DE's, etc. these are probably not the best citizens. I believe when you recruit, you are recruiting football players, people who are willing and like to be beat around for an afternoon, and every day in practice. These are not choir boys..... So if there are some minor scrapes, I would overlook some of it, and not hold a coach to too high a standard, even at UCLA. The fact that KD has cleaned up (if it needed cleaning up) the program, is interesting but the real story is what is happening on the field. If he can win, he stays and gets raises. If he is inconsistent, etc. as he has shown, he will be kicked out, regardless of citizenship results.

Bill

BillSouthBay

by Mensgym on Dec 2, 2007 9:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

A few points...
Teams like Florida and WVU run the spread option, which is very different from the original spread.  The main reason Oregon has been terrible after the injury to Dixon is that they don't have any other QBs like him.  OTOH, Urban Meyer has been able to find several similar QBs that fit his system.  His offense has worked best in 2004 at Utah with Alex Smith and this year with Tim Tebow, whose strengths are very similar to those of Alex Smith.

by SuperBruinMan on Dec 2, 2007 2:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

None of this
dispels the idea of D. Walker not being a worthy DC.  Guy comes in, takes a what was CLEARLY a DI laughing-stock defense and turns it into a respectable unit (at a minimum). Guy hands an SC victory over to the Nation on a silver platter despite a hapless HC and we never stop to even say "thanks".

FAR from perfect = Y. Prone to big plays = Y. Overrated at times = Y. Stops the run = Y. Turned around = Y. Forces opposing adjustments = Y. Kept last nights score respectable = Y.  Scoring D = Y. Vulnerable to Spread = Y.  Leaks like a sieve (a la Toledo/Kerr) = NO.

Amazing to see the baby thrown out with the bath water in such a knowledgable forum. The true measure will have to come from our next HC.

If DW is retained, we'll have our answer.

GO BRUIN BLUE.

by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Dec 2, 2007 5:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Facts Don't Support You
Throughout the year, we have had many fact based analyses of the mediocrity of our D as coached by Walker. If you want to make a case for him, refute those posts.

While you're at it, explain Utah.

And, FSU.

If the new coach wants DW, that's ok with me. But, we cannot force him on the new coach. It's unfair.

Don't mean to be rude, but instead of whining that we are throwing out the baby, establish that there is a baby in that bathwater. We don't see one.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 2, 2007 8:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here are a few defensive stats
We gave up 22.8 points per game, 34th out of 119 D-1 schools.

We gave up 349.8 yards per game, 36th.

We gave up 234.3 pass yards per game, 70th.

We gave up 115.4 rushing yards per game, 25th.

Our defense made it into the top 25 in only one category in Coach Walker's 3rd season.  To me, that's at best adequate coaching.  His results show that roughly a third of his contemporaries put up better numbers.  

Of course these numbers are light years better than the offensive numbers which are totally pathetic.  But in reality, all Coach Walker has managed to produce is marginally adequate numbers.  There have been some big plays by the players, and also some monumental gaffes by the players.  

But the overall numbers suggest that there may not be a baby in that bathwater after all.

by Fox 71 on Dec 2, 2007 9:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Context
With respect to our defense's standing, I factor in that we had an offense that, for about 2/3 of the season, was practically impotent (pathetic, as you say).  With that in mind, the results indicate to me that DW performed roughly in the top 25% of the pack.  Also factor in that he had a relatively experienced squad.

Anyway, it's a "shades of gray" kinda thing, but I look at the same data and conclude not "adequate" but rather "above average".  He is obviously neither phenomenal nor horrible.

by haywood nighttrain on Dec 4, 2007 6:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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