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Will UCLA Pay For The New Head Coach?

Bumped. A must read post. GO BRUINS. -N

I think considering his hires (Howland, Savage) Dan Guerrero has a pretty good eye for talent. He brings in good coaches who have UCLA competing for national titles, just as all Bruin coaches should. However, college football is a big money business and with all big name coaches looking at over $1 million per season, UCLA will have to spend much more than they ever have on a football coach if they want to have a top notch football program instead of continuing their decades long commitment to mediocrity.

First, here's a recap of what happened during the last coaching search for those who don't know (if you do then skip down a while and I get to my point at the end):

When Guerrero first took over as the UCLA AD, he fired Steve Lavin and Bob Toledo, leaving him the department's 2 most prominant programs in need of a coach. First came the search for a head basketball coach which started in November, where he worked the backchannels as Lavin led the Bruins to their worst season in over 50 years. Mike Montgomery, a proven winner in the Pac 10 was his first choice, however Montgomery had no interest. Next on the list was Ben Howland, a lifelong Bruin who wanted nothing more than to come home to Southern California and lead UCLA back to glory. While he couldn't speak with Howland until the season ended, Gurerro did speak with multiple people around the nation and those close to Howland to get a feel for what it would take to bring Howland west. Howland was willing to take a pay cut to come to UCLA, however when negotiations first began the offer UCLA came up with (roughly $600,000 per season) would have forced Howland to take such a pay cut that even Guerrero knew Howland couldn't agree to it.

At this point Guerrero made his push to the adminstration. If they want to win, they're going to have to pay for it. After meeting with a few different administrators over 3 days, Guerrero finall got the OK to pay Howland what it took to bring him to Westwood. The contract was drawn up and Guerrero merely had to wait until the season ended so he could speak to Howland personally and get him to sign the deal. Howland became UCLA coach and we all know what he has done with the basketball program since.

Next came the search for a head football coach. Again, the UCLA administration did not want to spend for a top notch coach. They wanted a smaller name, who didn't cost as much and maybe that guy could turn the program around. Guerrero didn't feel this was the right way to go about the search. He wanted to start with a list of 10-15 coaches and then to narrow it down to 4 or 5 to interview. He also realized that the program eneded a proven coach so again he went to the administration to get a bump in money for him to offer, however after getting it for basketball, Guerrero was ignored by the adminsitration and essentially told, "we gave you the money for basketball now leave us alone." This wasn't OK with Gurrero though so he pushed and pushed for more money, upsetting the adminsitration and especially, our chancellor Carnesale.

Carnesale decided he would take control of the coaching search and enlisted his buddy Bob Field to help him. He told the administration he would get the job done with the money they allotted so the search began, with Carnesale and Field at the head. The final 2 candidates were Mike Riley and Karl Dorrell. Following the interviews, Guerrero repeated what he said at the beginning: UCLA needs a proven coach. So with that his vote went to Riley. On the other hand Carnesale and Field loved Dorrell. He was a Bruin, had a great interview and was young. Guerrero was outvoted and Dorrell was hired. Ever since then, the administration has stood by Dorrell, saying he needed more time, plus they weren't paying Dorrell much and the football program was making money, so why tinker. Carnesale was still on Dorrell's side too, however this fall Carnesale left and Gene Block took over as chancellor. Block seems to have sided with Gurrero in all aspects of athletics, from the need to raise money, improve facilities and demand excellence. With Block on his side, Guerrero has turned up the heat on Dorrell and gotten to ear of the administration and Dorrell has done his part too.

That is where we stand now as the Bruins are 5-4 with 20 returning starters and their 3 toughest games remaining. While the Bruins still control their destiny in terms of the conference title, but Dorrell still controls the Bruins so I'm not getting my hopes up. Dorrell looks likely to get the boot after the season and we will have to rewind 5 years to start a head coaching search again. The search will start in the same place it did last time: the adminsitration allotted far too little money for the next head coach and Gurrero asking for more to bring in a head coach that will raise the football program to the level of all other Bruin programs.

I am optimistic that this time the administration will give Guerrero more money to work with because he alone will be in charge of the search and won't have a chancellor undermining him. The chancellor is another HUGE part to this search. Block will not only side with Guerrero in his push for more money, but Block will bring in additional money. At Virginia, Block was the lead fundraiser as the Cavs built a brand new basketball arena, as well as renovated the football and baseball stadiums. Block is a proven fundraiser. Combine that with UCLA alumni eager for a winning program, Guerrero should be able to offer a coach UC money, Adidas money and alumni money. My guess is the Bruins will be offering roughly $1.5 million per season to their new coach, with a possibility of it being pushed to $2 million if it goes to a big name (Steve Spurrier).

While the story of the last head coaching search is 100% fact, the speculation on the upcoming search is simply that..speculation. The administration could certainly stick to their cheap history and show no inclination to pay up for a coach UCLA deserves while paying Dorrell a buyout. Personally, I don't question the Bruin fans or alumni's desire for a top notch football program. I don't doubt Block or Gurrero's desire either. The only people who's desire I question is the administration. UCLA has been mired in over 40 years of mediocrity on the football field. Despite this, the administration hasn't showed an inclination to make a commitment to the football program and get it on top of the Pac 10 and nation like it should. As long as the football program can continue to keep the athletic department self-sufficient, they are content. Now is the time for the university to make its statement. Do they want a winning football program or not? Is mediocrity OK or will they demand more? The statement they make this offseason is going to determine the future of the program for not only the next 5 years, but likely the next few decades.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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So it looks like
we need to send some encouragement to Block, rather than napalm balms to DG.

I'm all for that, and will do so after dinner.

Now, Rye, one more question.  You sound like you have good contacts in the Athletic Department.  Does DG know (not suspect, but know) that if CTS is still the coach after the justsc game that many at the BN (including me) will start a move to get a new athletic director?  Whether he cares or not is irrelevant to me.  

Anyway, thanks for posting this.  I had heard bits and pieces before,but this is nice to have all in one place.

by Fox 71 on Nov 6, 2007 2:38 PM PST reply actions  

He knows
people will call for his head, but there's nothing he can do. He wants to get rid of KD. KD just needs to finish bad enough that the administration will give him te go ahead to fire him.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 6, 2007 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

There's More to Big Time Football Than Wins
In all the arguments about UCLA being too cheap to hire a top name football coach I never see any discussion about the ancillary economic benefits of a high visibility athletic program.  It has been mentioned many times how important football revenue is to funding all the other non-revenue sports at UCLA.  But that is only part of the story.  

Winning football generates money outside of the Athletic Department for both the University and the general regional economy.  The University benefits through increased merchandising and alumni donations.  It isn't an accident that during every televised football game there are "commercials" for each of the schools.  Those PSA type ads are free advertising for the school and they are important for marketing purposes both to attract new students (not that UCLA needs that since it gets more application than any other US university), but also for image enhancement that can translate into corporate donations and grants.  Winning football gets additional attention.

There are also benefits to the economy.  While winning translates into more ticket sales, ticket sales translate into other economic impacts.  People drive to the games.  They buy gas and increase the wear and tear on their cars.  Some people, myself included, live outside the LA area and must buy an airline ticket for every game.  There are also hotels, restaurants and other industries that benefit.  

Let's continue to encourage UCLA not to be penny wise and pound foolish when it comes to getting the best available coach.  We took the cheap route and see what it got us.  Let's try upping the ante not just for football fans, but for everyone that would benefit, including those that don't give a rat's ass about football or UCLA.

by Bruin77 on Nov 6, 2007 4:09 PM PST reply actions  

Call David Geffen
As I finished writing the post above, it dawned on me that there are some be some big donors that if they understood the ancillary benefits of football to the University, might be willing to contribute to what appears to be a non-altruistic cause, such as getting a good football coach.

If David Geffen could donate a $100 million, or what ever it was, for the Medical Center, maybe he could come up with another 2% for what could be an important element of UCLA's marketing strategy - a winning football team.

by Bruin77 on Nov 6, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions  

From what I've heard
they contacted Geffen and he's going to donate to the Pauley renovation so I'm not sure he'll be willing to donate to both at the same time. Also, the owner of Easton (a UCLA alum) is donating to the Pauley renovation and will be contacted should they decide to fire Dorrell.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 6, 2007 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Would help...
And hopefully Block will carry over his ability to bring in large individual contributions to the athletic program (like the $35 million gift that got the JPJ arena project started).

by bruinhoo on Nov 7, 2007 1:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Rye
Is it possible, without revealing any identifying information, that you know the facts surrounding Dorrell's hiring are 100% correct?

by Bruin77 on Nov 6, 2007 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

The info i have heard
Matches what rye wrote. The add I have is that DG also had interest in Roy Williams who was coaching at KU. But UNC job opened up and Roy couldn't turn down the 'heels second time around. And yes the Doofus was a Carnesale special. I have written that number of times on BN.

by Nestor on Nov 6, 2007 4:59 PM PST up reply actions  

I can guarantee it
The people I got this info were working in the athletic department at the time, are working there now and one as even in the room during negotiations.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 6, 2007 5:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks
Always interesting to see where information comes from.  Sounds like your sources are not just credible, but have access.  That's the kind of information or access you just don't from the "sound bite" reporting in the MSM.

by Bruin77 on Nov 6, 2007 5:26 PM PST up reply actions  

great diary rye
I am already hearing that UCLA already is in a frame of mind where it can entertain the notion of hiring a coach with base salary ranging from 1.5 to 1.7 million.

I think if they find the right guy they may be ready to move that base up to 2 million range.

I don't think money is going to be an issue this time around. After all unlike 2002 this time UCLA is not looking down the barrel and see it also has save money to bring in a basketball coach.

by bluestreet on Nov 6, 2007 4:12 PM PST reply actions  

agreed
Great diary, rye.  This should be required reading for all students of UCLA football's recent history.

by Barnes2JJ on Nov 6, 2007 4:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Last I checked, Peterson at BSU has...
... a 5-yr, $4.25M deal with them.

Previously, I said I could imagine us offering him or a similar candidate a 5-yr, $7.0M deal.  

Now, I'm thinking a 5-yr/ $8.0M might be the ultimate price.

If we can sign a high-quality HC for that, I might actually be relieved.

M

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 6, 2007 4:59 PM PST reply actions  

Plus
Sign Petersen and ticket sales will go through the roof.  Just replay those few key plays from the BSU-OK game and everyone will line up to see the new squad.

I know there is a lot more to BSU and Petersen than that game, but that's the one everyone remembers.

by Barnes2JJ on Nov 6, 2007 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Petersen's rep has been...
... mostly along the lines of "smart," "creative," and "inspiring."

Call me crazy, but those are the kind of qualities I want in a HC.

I freely admit I don't know what type of HC he would be in L.A., with a big-city environment and media affecting all of his players.  I can't guarantee he'd be a success.

Then again, I am pretty confident that he'd give us a better than a coin flip's chance at winning the big games.

M

 

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 6, 2007 5:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Correct me if I am wrong but...
Wasn't Toledo Fired and KD hired before Lavin was ever canned?  It doesn't make a huge difference, but it does mess with some of the story of why DG's hands were tied.

Of course this has no effect on the point of this.  We need a proven winner, and we need to spend some $ to do it.  SO we as alums need to convince the AD to loosen the purse strings a little.

by isodore on Nov 6, 2007 5:14 PM PST reply actions  

He was
but both the firings were decided long before the seasons ended and the process of searching for a new coach came at roughly the same time.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 6, 2007 5:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Excellent Post
Rye thanks for the great post. I agree with the facts. Everything makes too much sense given the history of the administration and different chancellor's positions on athletics. Thanks for also clarifying what is speculation (for now). Either way you are helping plenty us all here at BN to spread the UCLA history and folklore to our family and kids. Thanks.

by apbruin on Nov 6, 2007 9:13 PM PST reply actions  

great post
i learned a lot from your explanation and as a senior who had to deal with carnesale for 3 years i can tell you this story is in no way surprising. it totally fits carnesale's mo: sweep things under the rug and ignore the best interests of students.

by radiorahim on Nov 7, 2007 1:52 AM PST reply actions  

There was no bigger jacka$$ than Carnesale
He stood by Lavin when Dalis wanted to make a change, and then he handed us Doofus.

And now, Carnesale's final legacy to UCLA football fans is this god-awful situation:

If we want KD gone, we have to root for UCLA to lose;  if KD sweeps the final 3 then he remains.

I know the concensus is that the latter is not going to happen, but it is not a zero-chance probability.

by bluegold on Nov 7, 2007 8:12 AM PST reply actions  

Question
Anyone know if we are still paying off Lavin's contract.  Toledo's is done I assume since he got the Tulane job but how about Lavin?  I believe this was mentioned as a factor in how much funds may have been allocated for the coaches.  Thanks in advance.

by BlueReign on Nov 7, 2007 8:15 AM PST reply actions  

One more point:
Some have criticized DG for upping KDs salary, but part of that, I think, is realizing it is easier to get to $1.5M or $2M from $1M than it is from $600K.

I think DG has been planning on bringing in a name for quite a while.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Nov 7, 2007 9:13 AM PST reply actions  

Carnesale
It will take UCLA probably 7-10 years to overcome this guy. Where did he go, or is he retired? And, after all, someone hired him and left him in charge as well. The other thing that galls me is the severance deals Dalis made as he left the parking lot special section for the last time, for both Lavin and Toledo.
Bill
BillSouthBay

by Mensgym on Nov 7, 2007 9:22 AM PST reply actions  

Sabatical
I recall hearing that he was taking a year off after his resignation, then likely would return to teaching.

by bruinhoo on Nov 7, 2007 1:26 PM PST up reply actions  

He's teaching this quarter
I'm not sure if it counts as a full time class for the professor, or how that all works, but he's teaching a Fiat Lux (1 unit, designed for freshman, small seminar, on a subject of professor's choosing) this quarter on National Security.

by jaffa on Nov 7, 2007 6:17 PM PST up reply actions  

He's actually getting paid for this gig?
He's teaching a 1 unit class for freshman on a subject he chooses?  That's a nice gig.  Freshmen sitting in awe of the prof, challenging nothing.  And one unit on a subject of the prof's choosing means ZERO prep time.  

OK academicians out there - justify a class like this?  We did this sort of thing in law school - we sat around with a prof or two and talked about a subject of the prof's choosing.  We called it by its technical, legal name - "lunch."

Sorry, but it seems to me that "Toast" is doing more to earn his salary than this clown is.  

by Fox 71 on Nov 7, 2007 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Not sure if he's teaching only that
I just saw his name while I was scrolling down the list. I did a short check, and the few professors that I looked at seemed to also have another class. That being said, I didn't find his name anywhere else in the listings for the department his class is listed under. As for the general worth of these, here's the program's website.

by jaffa on Nov 8, 2007 7:58 PM PST up reply actions  

I really, REALLY hope...
... that the higher-ups don't just do the equivalent of an NBA team paying for a veteran free agent rental.  

You know, just throwing some nice-looking, but discounted money, at a veteran "name" rate for a mere stop-gap measure until a new guy can be found in 3 or 4 years.  

I want our admins to go outside the box, take a good look around and find a quality, LONG-TERM candidate for HC.  

Not long-term learning, but long-term success.

Face it -- WE DO NOT HAVE A COACHING TREE in FOOTBALL ANYMORE.

Neuheisel is no longer nuclear-meltdown-level with the NCAA compliance officers, but the half-life on his violations is probably incredible.

About the only guy I might consider would be Al Borges, since he's been a solid, experienced OC at Auburn.  Still, under BT, there's no telling how much of the offense was BT's or AB's.

Anyone that was an assistant during the Teflon terry days would have to be in their 60s, and that is NOT the kind of coach or coordinator I want for the LONG-TERM.  

I want us to get this RIGHT.

I want a clear, solid, 8-10 year hire, one who can get us to 3-4 Rose Bowls in that span, and NO LOSING SEASONS.

I want someone who can run an offense that maximizes our available talent while minimizing the learning curve, so we don't have to wait for a QB's 3rd year before he can win 8 games.

I want an OC and a DC that have a freaking clue how to run, recognize, and react to a freaking spread.

No retreads.  No retirees.  No rejects.

M

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 7, 2007 9:49 AM PST reply actions  

One of the best things...
we have going for us right now (other than the Beavis and Butthead sideshow we have in football) is Ben Howland. He has raised the standard so high in UCLA's other revenue generating program, that anything less than a home-run hire would be HEAVILY criticized. This time around, I can't help but think that Guerrero would realize that his butt is on the line as well. Yes, he hired Howland and Savage, but if drops a turd on us in football, he's going to start seeing websites with his name in it. I don't think chancellor Block has any intention of screwing this up either.

Yes, UCLA's budgets are tight, but as the saying goes, you need to spend money to make money. Reference the article about Ohio State that was recently on BN. The football program alone covers the entire athletics budget, with money to spare. There's no reason why UCLA, with it's rich tradition (100 championships) can't follow the same model.

by norcalbruin95 on Nov 7, 2007 10:07 AM PST reply actions  

Great point re OSU.
Granted, our football logistics are inherently different than those of the Buckeyes, given the distance between campus and the RB.  

HOWEVER, the RIGHT hire can certainly pay off for the AD for YEARS to come.

With all the palyers we have sent to the NFL over the years, even during the CTS-era, we ARE NOT and SHOULD NOT be a basketball-only school like Duke or UNC or Kentucky.

We are in a premier football conference.

We are in a major media market.

We are in a city that has long been dominated by star-power coaches, from Wooden to Riley to Lasorda to Jackson to the Humanitarian to Torre.

We need a star -- not just one in faded name only, but a rising one who already has major accomplishments under his belt and plenty of fire in the belly to require an even bigger belt in the near future.

If the admins make the RIGHT choice, and at the very RIGHT TIME, we can make Florida's and OSU's financial success look like a nice little indy film next to a UCLA's own Spielberg-level athletic blockbuster.

If we can only get this RIGHT...

M

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 7, 2007 10:34 AM PST up reply actions  

My hope is that...
one day, years from now, we'll look back at 2007 as the year that changed everything for UCLA football. Dorrell completely sinks the ship at UCLA, ending the year at 5-7. Guerrero then goes out and hires a proven program builder or a proven assistant from an elite D-1 school (someone like Petersen, or like Bob Stoops). Karma catches up to U$C...Snoop Dogg stops going to the games, the NCAA actually does the right thing, and Pete Carroll is run out of town by a bunch of pissed off bandwagon fans. UCLA starts another 7-8 year streak against $C on it's way to some Rose/BCS Bowl berths.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and there's no better time than now to do it.

by norcalbruin95 on Nov 7, 2007 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I'll settle for 6-6 this year...
... 'cause come h*ll or high water, I will ALWAYS want us to beat $C.

M

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 7, 2007 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Truethat...
unless Dorrell somehow manages to win the next 2 games (yeah right). In that scenario, I may actually have to do the unthinkable...

by norcalbruin95 on Nov 7, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions  

He could win the next two games, but
he'd still have to beat 'SC, which would probably be easier that beating Oregon, AND win whichever bowl game the Bruins play.

Tall order for CTS.  

IF he is lucky enough to finish this season with a four game win streak and end up with a 9-4 record.  

It would be great for the team, but ugh! but it might unnerve DG to fire CTS, and we'd have him one more year!

by bruinhawk on Nov 7, 2007 12:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I Feel Sorry . . .
For our next Head Coach.  In today's world of increasing parity in College Football, it is very hard to consistently produce winners (big time winners I mean, and not just a winning percentage).  There is no such thing as the perfect HC.  Whoever we end up hiring (and by the way, I DO support hiring a new HC at the end of the season) will not be perfect.  They will also have big problems with the talent left on the shelf.  I am certain that this new Coach will have to endure serious criticism from this board as well as others as they take the years that will be required to turn this ship around.  I wonder if the UCLA community will have the patience during this painful process to show our new Coach support, even after painful losses.  I hope so.

by Forearm Shiver on Nov 7, 2007 10:37 AM PST reply actions  

Ever heard of...
Ben Howland? 11-17 his first year, 18 wins his second and then 2-straight final fours. Yeah, I think we can be patient for the right HC.

by norcalbruin95 on Nov 7, 2007 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Agree about Howland
If the new HC knows how to run a program, Bruin fans will support him through the rough times and look forward to the good times.

Contrast that with Doofus.  Even with a 10-2 season there was no comfort level that he knew what he was doing.

by bluegold on Nov 7, 2007 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Come on . . .
It has been very correctly stated in this board that you cannot compare Basketball (where nowadays you get guys for two years and then they are gone) and Football.  It is possible to do it in Football (and I think Pete Carroll is one of the best examples), but it is MUCH tougher.  I have confidence in DG, but the task ahead of him is extremely difficult, and the turnaround process will take time.

by Forearm Shiver on Nov 7, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions  

Agreed that it is tough...
... but every Div. I football HC job is.

This is why I think the Cal situation is the best analogy for us, particularly as both schools replaced coaches just a year apart from each other.

Has Cal been rampaging across the Div. I landscape these past 5-6 years under Tedford?  Heck no.

BUT, I think it's clear that CJT did a better job in his 1st 5 years than CTS has in his.

CJT took over after Cal's disastrous 1-10 season.  CTS took over after Toledo's 8-5 season.  

Year 1:
UCLA -- 6-7, tied 5th in Pac-10, Silicon Valley Bowl LOSS.
Cal -- 7-5, tied 3rd in Pac-10.

Year 2:
UCLA -- 6-6, tied 5th in Pac-10, Las Vegas Bowl LOSS.
Cal -- 8-6, tied 3rd in Pac-10, Insight Bowl WIN.

Year 3:
UCLA -- 10-2, 3rd in Pac-10, Sun Bowl WIN.
Cal -- 10-2, 2nd in Pac-10, Holiday Bowl LOSS.

Year 4:
UCLA -- 7-6, 4th in Pac-10, Emerald Bowl LOSS.
Cal -- 8-4, tied 4th in Pac-10, Las Vegas Bowl WIN.

Year 5:
UCLA (in progress) -- 5-4, not yet Bowl eligible.
Cal -- 10-3, tied 1st in Pac-10, Holiday Bowl WIN.

Granted, there are some Cal fans who are bemoaning CJT's coaching this year, but I certainly think he's earned enough goodwill to keep his job next year.

As for CTS?  Yes, a Div. I HC job is hard.  It's supposed to be.  

Most of us were hoping that CBhw ould get our Bruins to the Final 4 by his 4th or 5th eyar, but I don't know if ANY of us thought, back when he was hired, that we'd go to back-to-back F4s by the 3rd and 4th year alone.

When CTS came on, we came off an 8-5 season.

We have only finished that well ONCE in CTS' 4 full years on the job, and it's going to be VERY tough to get there this year.

Most of what we want are the basics of any good coach -- sound game planning, improvement of players, good recruiting, smart decision-making, and confident leadership.

We don't expect continuous dominance, but we demand consistent competitiveness.

We can get it...

...IF WE GET THIS RIGHT.

M

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 7, 2007 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

Sure...
it probably takes a little longer to rebuild a football program, but I think that as long as it is clear to the UCLA community that Guerrero is committed to making the right choice by paying out more money for a proven HC, we will be patient with the new HC and the subsequent rebuilding process. Certainly more patient than we were with Dorrell, who had no business being hired in the first place. If, however, Guerrero hires another hack, then yes, you can feel sorry for the new coach and you can rest assured that dumpguerrero.com will be online shortly.

That's the thing with Howland, even after the 11-17 season, we could already see the signs that Ben was a great man, a leader and a great coach. We could see the system cutting it's roots. With Dorrell, it was pretty clear we were doomed from the start...

by norcalbruin95 on Nov 7, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Time to produce
The issue with a new coach is giving him time to put his system in place and start having success with it.  From the beginning, CTS did not have success, but even more importantly, never showed real improvement in the quality of play on the field.  As is now apparent, the 10-2 season was the abberation produced by big play comebacks in the 4th quarters of games that should have been easily won by a well coached team.
Given what happened with basketball and even with the first couple years of CTS, I am confident that the UCLA fan base will give the new coach time to bring the team up to the level which we think it should be.
Bob O. (Signholder #3)

by TuneMan7 on Nov 7, 2007 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Cal is a good comparison
Nice post M, Cal is indeed a good comparison, and yes, there is a tremendous amount of constipation in Berkeley right now with their recent skid, and a big game looming Saturday against USC.  Their loss to UCLA was a very difficult pill to swallow.  Tedford was an assistant coach, and there was some degree of risk even with his hire (not comparing him to Dorrell mind you).  At the beginning of this year he was bullet-proof, but now they aren't so sure.  Any way you cut it, a D1 HC is a very tough job.  All this being said, when I step back and look at the Big Picture, I have been fortunate to have been to 5 Rose Bowls (3-2).  When was the last time Cal went to a Rose Bowl?

by Forearm Shiver on Nov 7, 2007 11:45 AM PST reply actions  

If those hippies are feeling constipated
then I hope DG can hand out some Tums in Bezerkley by hiring away Tedford. Those morons are too dumb to know how good they have it with Tedford. They don't deserve him and he needs to be at a higher profile program which will not annually choke its way to the Holiday or lower tier bowls.

by bluestreet on Nov 7, 2007 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I do agree . . .
I like Tedford.  The only thing wrong with him is he needs a bigger clipboard.

by Forearm Shiver on Nov 7, 2007 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed, Cal's Rb drought is long...
... however, they certainly have had more years end with WINS than we have recently.

I'll put this concept into a separate Diary, too.  Your input would be appreciated.

M

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 7, 2007 11:51 AM PST up reply actions  

M, don't forget . . .
about Cal's absolute humiliation at the hands of Texas Tech in the Holiday Bowl a couple of years back.  A great season, followed by a complete dump in the bowl game, which not only embarrassed them, but also the whole PAC-10.  

by Forearm Shiver on Nov 7, 2007 12:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Agreed. My brother went to Cal...
... and that loss hit him in the shorts.

At the same time, I respectfully submit that our blowout losses against $C and Bowl Games outnumber Cal's losses to Stanford and in Bowl Games by a HUGE margin.

Is Cal perfect?  Heaven, no.

But they're a much better prgoram than ours.

M

"Because I'm tired of it. Year after year after year after year having to choose between the lesser of 'Who cares?'"

by Meriones on Nov 7, 2007 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

True enough
I was there and it was a complete beat-down.  The Cal fans near me were absolutely horrified and embarrassed.

I know the conventional wisdom was that Cal was so disappointed in being at the Holiday Bowl that they just did not show up, emotionally.  

It could also have been that Cal was not prepared for TT's spread offense.  I doubt TT ran the ball more than a few times the entire game.

Cal is having a bizarre year this season, but overall, I like what they have going.

by Barnes2JJ on Nov 7, 2007 12:13 PM PST up reply actions  

There is no doubt . . .
Their program is on much more solid footing than ours is right now, and (currently) headed in a better direction.

by Forearm Shiver on Nov 7, 2007 12:20 PM PST up reply actions  

I have really liked Cal under Tedford and
would gladly have him over CTS.  

While this might be a bizzare year for Cal, that describes EVERY season with CTS.

By the way, the last Rose Bowl appearance for Cal was '59.  They lost to Iowa.

by bruinhawk on Nov 7, 2007 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

in my recollection....
Cal went into the game devastated by injuries... not that we ever want to hear anything like that or give excuses... overall, he's done a great job at Cal of all places, but they still havn't made that last step.... IMO
Dorrell??? Really???

by BruinManDan97 on Nov 7, 2007 3:36 PM PST up reply actions  

they had no recievers left
only a slight exaggeration, but both of Cal's starting receivers were out w/injuries.

by bruinhoo on Nov 7, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions  

I believe you
but Cal's defense was AWOL that game.  They couldn't stop TT's offense even when everyone in the stands knew that every single play would be a pass.

by Barnes2JJ on Nov 7, 2007 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

Saw your new Diary entry . . .
M, I saw your new Diary entry about the Cal comparison.  No arguments with the post of course, but to me, there is no longer any argument about Karl Dorrell as our head coach.  I believe the die has been cast.  It is like beating a dead horse.  I would rather look forward (starting with how can we possibly win Saturday with OR at the helm), and then just go from there.  I happen to respect Karl Dorrell (as a person, his coaching leaves a lot to be desired) and this whole situation is very unfortunate.  I would like to get it behind us with a minimal amount of further criticism (enough has already been said, and the record speaks for itself).

by Forearm Shiver on Nov 7, 2007 1:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Maybe a dumb question
You say:  
Personally, I don't question the Bruin fans or alumni's desire for a top notch football program. I don't doubt Block or Guerrero's desire either. The only people who's desire I question is the administration.

Who is the "administration"?  If we have the AD and the Chancellor on board, who else do we need?  I know there are others, but who are they?  What are the names of the other people who need convincing?

by Menelaus on Nov 7, 2007 11:57 AM PST reply actions  

The administration
consists of the chancellor, president, regents and deans. While the chancellor is on our side, we'll need more than that. The regents must approve any UC money going towards a coach. The president's opinion usually carries a lot of weight when the regents vote and he can be an asset when it comes to luring a coach here and proving we are committed to a winning program. Deans, while not directly involved in the decision, carry weight in terms of a university wide support. The regents and preisdent often talk about how they represent the overall opinion of the university so if the deans throw themselves behind our athletic department, it is furthur support and can be used when Guerrero or Block makes his case to the regents, president and boosters.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks
Of course, the reason I ask is so that I/we can email/contact the appropriate people to let our views be known.  I am the first to admit that I don't know that exact power structure within Murphy Hall, but whatever insight I can get is appreciated.

by Menelaus on Nov 7, 2007 12:46 PM PST up reply actions  

It's great
that people are interested in finding this out and making a difference. Some of the other I've talked to at games just had an attitude of "whatever, they'll figure it out." It's great to see some die hard Bruins who want to make a difference. It's fans like you and the rest of BN who help make UCLA truely special.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Morrison is not part of Administration?
Glad to learn that cat Morrison, the Faculty Representative that rudely responded by email to DD, does not appear to have any weight in the process.

by SinnerBoy 99 on Nov 7, 2007 3:24 PM PST up reply actions  

rye - you may need to tighten up your diary a bit
You wrote:
When Guerrero first took over as the UCLA AD, he fired Steve Lavin and Bob Toledo, leaving him the department's 2 most prominant programs in need of a coach. First came the search for a head basketball coach. Mike Montgomery, a proven winner in the Pac 10 was his first choice, however Montgomery had no interest. Next on the list was Ben Howland, a lifelong Bruin who wanted nothing more than to come home to Southern California and lead UCLA back to glory. Howland was willing to take a pay cut to come to UCLA, however when negotiations first began the offer UCLA came up with (roughly $600,000 per season) would have forced Howland to take such a pay cut even he couldn't agree to it.

At this point Guerrero made his push to the adminstration. If they want to win, they're going to have to pay for it. After meeting with a few different administrators over 3 days, Guerrero finall got the OK to pay Howland what it took to bring him to Westwood. Howland became UCLA coach and we all know what he has done with the basketball program since.

Next came the search for a head football coach. Again, the UCLA administration did not want to spend for a top notch coach. They wanted a smaller name, who didn't cost as much and maybe that guy could turn the program around. Guerrero didn't feel this was the right way to go about the search. He wanted to start with a list of 10-15 coaches and then to narrow it down to 4 or 5 to interview. He also realized that the program eneded a proven coach so again he went to the administration to get a bump in money for him to offer, however after getting it for basketball, Guerrero was ignored by the adminsitration and essentially told, "we gave you the money for basketball now leave us alone." This wasn't OK with Gurrero though so he pushed and pushed for more money, upsetting the adminsitration and especially, our chancellor Carnesale.

I think what you might have meant to write was that hiring off the basketball coach was a first priority over the hiring of a new football coach.

Because according to facts the hiring of football coach came first chronologically. Its a subtle point but important to get it right for factual purposes. I got the gist of what you were trying to say, but I think you need to make it clear. Football coaching search came (timeline wise) before the basketball one. However, in terms of priority mindset basketball search came first and took precedence over the football one.

by bluestreet on Nov 7, 2007 12:05 PM PST reply actions  

Guerrero essentially
began the search for a new basketball coach in November. When he was hired he had told those around him that Lavin needed a final 4 to keep him job.  He was working the back channels to get more money for the new basketball coach before Toledo was fired. I can see where the negotiation part could make it a bit confusing though. I'll fix that up, but the basketball search was going on before the fooball search.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 12:36 PM PST up reply actions  

That makes sense a little more
Just might want to make it more clear that from what you heard the basketball search essentially began via back channels in November, even before Toledo was fired in December.

by bluestreet on Nov 7, 2007 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Will do
thanks for bringing my attention to it. It is confusing

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 12:40 PM PST up reply actions  

It is actually pretty explosive info
Seems like you are suggesting that DG had "negotiations" w Howland (via backchannels?) even before Toledo was fired?

Is that what you are suggesting?

by bluestreet on Nov 7, 2007 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

He didn't negotiate with Howland
but he investigated the possibility and spoke with numerous other people who got a feel for what it would take to bring Howland in.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 12:49 PM PST up reply actions  

By the time he spoke with Howland
he had a contract drawn up that he knew would get the deal done.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 12:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeap
Now that makes much more sense.

by bluestreet on Nov 7, 2007 12:52 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks
for asking these questions. When you know exactly what happened it's tough to remember that those reading don't know all the details to fill it in. It was definitely confusing before and it's fixed now. Thanks again

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 12:55 PM PST up reply actions  

No problem at all
My notes are pretty much identical to yours. Thank you to you for putting them up.

by bluestreet on Nov 7, 2007 12:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Top Notch Coordinators?
This money sounds great for the HC hire, but I hope DG and whoever the HC is will make sure that there is sufficient funds for the coordinators that the HC will need to hire.  If this is simply moving money from the overall FB budget to the HC and taking it away from the other staff salaries then it we will all be disappointed!

by SinnerBoy 99 on Nov 7, 2007 2:03 PM PST reply actions  

Gene Block can be a boon to the program
Glad that Rye has emphasized the role that the new chancellor, Gene Block, will play in the next several years, whether it be concerning Dorrell's fate, or the future funding of the athletic program.

As someone that has spent nearly 3 years at the University of Virginia, I have had ample opportunity to experience the athletic environment present here in Charlottesville. When it comes to fundraising and infrastructure improvements, UVa has us beat, and by a significant margin. I share the belief that Block will be of help in improving these areas; at the very least not setting up roadblocks to DG.

A recent article from Fortune Magazine shows just what a strong focus on athletic fundraising. The article focuses on Florida's program, but includes a table of the universities with the largest athletic budgets. Much of the list is composed of the traditional D-1 athletic powers; Ohio State and Texas top the list (~$100 million each), while other leading programs such as Penn State, Michigan and Georgia make the list. UCLA is not included, but surprisingly, Virginia is #3, with an athletic budget of over $92 million last year.

I should note that by sheer numbers, UVa has an alumni base far smaller than any of the before mentioned schools, with the possible exception of Notre Dame. What Virginia has done with much success is high-visibility fundraising through the athletic department. The Virginia Athletics Foundation has a much higher exposure on campus and at sporting events than any arm of Morgan Center that I recall at UCLA. Block was a major part of the fundraising effort during his time at UVa, and as Rye wrote, was successful in getting several major athletic facilities constructed or expanded, notably the expansion of the football stadium at a cost of $76 million, and the construction of John Paul Jones Arena, which opened last fall at a cost of $143 million, funded completely by alumni and private donations, led by a $35 million gift from a single alumnus. As a whole, the (on-campus) athletic facilities at Virginia top those at UCLA in all but Track and Softball, and arguably Tennis). My hope is that now the athletic department will gain the university support to make a leap in funding, gaining the ability to pay for a top-level coach as well as to solidify athletic funding + further improve facilities.

by bruinhoo on Nov 7, 2007 2:16 PM PST reply actions  

hoo
you should diary it with blockquote from the Fortune Mag article. That needs to be a stand alone post.

by Nestor on Nov 7, 2007 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

sure
I'll get on it tonight

by bruinhoo on Nov 7, 2007 5:15 PM PST up reply actions  

Cool
because I'd like to share and highlight that kind of insight w rest of the community instead of having it buried deep in a (albeit very insightful) comment thread.

by Nestor on Nov 7, 2007 6:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Would 2M be enough?
Great article, but I'm not so confident about the numbers at the end.

Right now, in the major conferences, the avg. for a coaches salary is around 1.4M.

But, to get a homerun hire, I think you'd have to go beyond 2M. The coaches salaries have just escalated in the past few years, and I think its going to go even higher with the number of big-time programs that need coaches this off-season and will not be afraid to pay what it takes. The mistake would be to offer what you think is a competitive offer, and not realize that what used to be competitive is now obsolete.

Nick Saban gets 4M at Alabama, Charlie Weis gets somewhere close to 4M, Stoops at Oklahoma gets 3.5M, Urban Meyer gets 3.3M, Carroll at SC and Brown at Texas both get close to 3M. Hell, even Franchione, at Texas A&M gets 2M and he's going to get fired.

by dana on Nov 7, 2007 5:43 PM PST reply actions  

$2 million is plenty
Saban got paid 4M to leave the NFL. Franchine got paid 2M to leave Alabama. Everyone else wasn't earning that money when they were first hired.

Chris Peterson is getting 850K right now.

Gary Patterson is getting 1M per season.

Bronco Mendenhall is getting about 600K a season.

Paul Johnson is getting just over 1M per year.

All these coaches can be lured with 1.5M probably with 2M getting it done for sure.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 7, 2007 6:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Homerun hire
I was questioning if 2M would be enough for a big name homerun hire.

The four names you listed- Peterson, Johnson, Petterson, and Mendall- are promising, up-and-coming coaches but not big name coaches yet. If it would take 2M to lure them for sure, then it would cost more than 2M to lure a even bigger name coach.

Although, if the new UCLA coach starts winning, he'd probably get a bump in salary anyways.

by dana on Nov 7, 2007 7:08 PM PST reply actions  

Guys look,
Trying to describe what you want in a perfect coach is like asking a typical girl to describe her future husband: one who is also perfect.

Problem is they both don't exist.  You have to allow for flaws and be prepared for them.  Otherwise you will never be satisfied.  And then, what's the point of it all anyway?

by Steven on Nov 8, 2007 12:08 AM PST reply actions  

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