Dorrell and Football Recruiting Reflections

by guttylittlebruins on Jun 13, 2007 7:47 PM PDT Comment 34 comments

Coming into his fifth year, Dorrell's offensive recruiting has still been below what we expect, but one has to admit, UCLA has outdone itself every year since he has been here.

So far we have bateman, aundre dean, jerry johnson, and antwon moutra, and Nick Crissman All who will be 4 stars in due time. I'm especially fond of Crissman as a quarterback.

This year is an offyear in recruiting for both quarterbacks and O-lineman. Picking up crissman is a good pickup, but I hope UCLA can get a few bluechippers on the o-line.

UCLA also leads for Nelson Rosario, a 6'5 4.4 running reciver who will also probably end up a 4 star.

UCLA will also probably pick up a commitment from milton knox, another 4 star running back.

This class is turning out to be fantastic. Though offensively it still has a way to go, One could make a very strong argument that we not only have caught up to USC on defense, but have outrecruited them and have certainly outrecruited them in LA (thank you DeWayne Walker and Eric Scott).

This will be a top 10 recruiting class. easily.

Though I still don't think Dorrell should be coaching UCLA, I'm one of those that think DeWayne Walker and Eric Scott could be the ucla wave for the future and should Dorrell go to the pros after this year, I would love it if dewayne walker stuck around. How he did what he did with the personell he had is nothing short of amazing (to me). I already explained on another post why he struggled with the spread (personell, not coaching issues) and I think he will solve them this year. At least I hope so...

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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I don't want to nit pick

But if the recruiting is going so well, why don't we win more? Sure, Mr. Dorrell is responsible for most of the losses, but maybe one of the reasons is that he can't convince bigger and faster kids to commit to the WCO (which in Mr. Dorrell's case means "Weak, Cheesy Offense.)

I don't see him as a recruiting maven. It looks like he's good at keeping the program clean. That's it.

by Fox 71 on Jun 13, 2007 9:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

but he's gotten better every year.

this year and the last year have been stellar. We haven't even seen the 07 recruits yet.

by guttylittlebruins on Jun 13, 2007 9:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't matter...

if the guy can't put together a program that can develop the incoming talent. Just look at what Howland has done with primarily 3-4 star talent. Dorrell was supposed to be some sort of offensive guru, but he can't seem to put together consecutive years of solid offensive production.

by norcalbruin95 on Jun 13, 2007 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with Norcal

Mr. Dorrell appears to be able to develop talent about as well as Coach Howland's predecessor did. And that was nothing to crow about.

I still give him credit for only one thing - keeping the program clean. And that's good. That's where he should focus his talents. He's just not head coaching material.

by Fox 71 on Jun 13, 2007 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Basically...

Dorrell got a mulligan with the $C win. He messed up 2006 and his ass was as good as gone until 13-9. Now if he parlays that into the type of season we all want in 07, he will have sufficient talent to move forward and be that consistent BCS contender/top 10 regular we all know UCLA can be. Either way, the talent is no longer an excuse, because five years is plenty of time to bring in quality talent, especially in a recruiting hotbed like Calfiornia.

by ucla21 on Jun 14, 2007 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I can say

is God forbid we are all having this same discussion next year. I can see it happening. Inertia is EXTREMELY powerful. By that I mean, people in high places can become complacent with 7, 8, 9 wins (in a season of 13 or so games).

I will remember the 13-9 game forever, but we can do better.

by Barnes2JJ on Jun 14, 2007 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I share that fear

Mr. Dorrell's critics eat gobs of crow if he has 0 or 1 loss. (OK, even with one loss, some will still yell at him, and I will probably be in that group. He probably couldn't be forced out with only 2 or 3 losses, either.

Mr. Dorrell would surely be summarily canned if he has 7 or more losses.

I see that vast gray area -- filled with Dorrelista talking about more corners and more learning curves, blah, blah, blah -- of 6 or 5 or 4 losses.

We will indeed be having exactly the same debate. And I still think that even with the great win over justsc, Mr. Guerrero should have told him that his body of work did not justify another year as head man.

by Fox 71 on Jun 14, 2007 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We need to

publicize everywhere what the expectations are of the "experts" this season. So when we see that UCLA is expected to make the Rose Bowl, stick to that script. When we see UCLA ranked preseason in the top 10 .. OWN it!! There can be no let up on the expectations theme.

by DumpDorrell on Jun 14, 2007 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That fear is real

I realistically see this team going about 8-4, ending up in the Sun or Las Vegas bowl (whoop-te-dooo!).

Does that get KD fired? It should, but (sadly) probably won't. This is what we're up against.

KD loyalists (many of them labeling themselves as college football "gurus", not necessarily Bruin fans--you know who they are), will make an argument that a African-American, UCLA football coach shouldn't get fired at 8-4. They may point to a few games that were close, hard fought and having gone a different way would produce a 10-2 or 11-1 campaign. Or they may point to injuries. They will certainly point out the fact that we need more, not less, African-American head college football coaches. This is what we're up against.

Bottom line, DG will likely have an enormous amount of pressure from both directions at the end of this year. Let's hope our voice and our will are strong enough, and we will prevail.

by godblesstyus95 on Jun 14, 2007 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is exactly what will happen

we have been saying this for nearly a year. the worst case scenario is 8 or 9 wins. That is why we have formed this focus group or advisory group so that we apply the best amount of pressure at the right time in the right way. Believe me, if KD gets 9 wins and stays it wont be because we didnt try hard.

by DumpDorrell on Jun 14, 2007 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A stupid take

Eric Scott ... a high school coach ... waive of the future.

DeWayne Walker ... a coach who has no headcoaching appearance ... and still hasn't shown ability to stop college offenses ... waive of the future.

blackjack I like you and all but that was a stupid take.

by Nestor on Jun 14, 2007 4:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Correction

Eric Scott was a high school ASSISTANT coach.

by DumpDorrell on Jun 14, 2007 6:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exhausted from hopelessness

I think blackjack was referring to their recruiting ability. It is true that UCLA had traditionally avoided targeting the urban schools for athletes, and Walker and Scott seem to be able to find some good athletes there, so hopefully they will do great.

We don't want to promote UCLA as a training ground, but Walker did have a decent year considering that it was his first year as a coordinator, and his career prospects seem brighter than KD's. Not what we want, but that's what we have right now. Scott is a complete unknown, not what we'd want for our team, but so far at least he seems to have fulfilled his duties in recruiting.

It feels good to be a little bright-eyed about the future, even though the optimism may not be realistic. It is quite tiring to be constantly dreading KD's collapse, as he has generally sucked the life out of our football hopes. I'm not about to drink the Kool-Aid, but I'd like to watch the first few games this year at least with a flicker of hope for our boys.

by tasser10 on Jun 14, 2007 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i know what you mean

and when that first game rolls around and everyone is 0-0, you really hope that it's the start of something special. We need KD to get it done. To make good on the promises he made to his recruits/players, to the athletic department, the school, and the fanbase. Let's start by putting our team in a position to win for once, rather than playing not to lose (even when we're already behind.

by Tydides on Jun 14, 2007 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, fellas

I just don't think Mr. Dorrell knows how to do what you want him to do. He just doesn't know how to put our players in a position so they can flourish. He's just a bad coach. There are bad lawyer, bad doctors, bad drivers, bad cooks. There are also bad coaches and he is one of them. (Here's a challenge - name a coach who is worse? At any level.)

We can have all kinds of kum-bay-ya love ins and hand holding. We can march to raise awareness. But it will not make him a good coach. It might make him a better coach. (Listening to people who suggest that run-run-3 yard out-punt is a bad idea would make him a better coach.) But he will never in my opinion be a good coach.

The reason? In my opinion, he is simply not smart enough. Can anyone generate a quote or a comment from him that actually said anything? I don't think I've ever heard one. I believe he talks solely in cliches and chestnuts because he's not smart enough to come up with an original thought.

The proof? Compare any interview with Coach Howland to any interview with Mr. Dorrell.

That might not be the positive thinking, get behind the team, it's a new season and anything can happen attitude that you want to see. But in my opinion, that's where we are, and saying we're someplace else does no one any good.

I hope I'm wrong. If I am wrong, then let's wish Tampa Bay into the World Series while we're at it.

by Fox 71 on Jun 14, 2007 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to root for my boys

My faith is not in KD's ability to become a good coach, it is in the spirit of our players. They are not going to get any motivation from their head coach so they will have to follow the example of Drew & Co. to light a fire within themselves and win games.

We may not think much of our head coach, but our boys need to think that they can win, otherwise there is almost no point in putting on pads to go get your ass pummeled for three hours. KD apparently does not have the ability to convince them and coach them appropriately to establish that frame of mind. It is hard to get a bunch of 20-year olds to do that for themselves...

And bad though I may think KD is as a head coach, there are worse coaches in college football, at least statistically.

by tasser10 on Jun 14, 2007 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I support our team!!

I will no matter what always root on our guys. No question. And I give some credit to Walker, and indeed Scott, for their successes in recruiting. At the same time, Im cognizant of the failures of this program under Dorrell and Im tired of "next year" and "turning the corner" and "learning and growing." If Dorrell cant do it this year we should all put the pressure on DG to get rid of him, finally. For $1 Million a year we have a joke of a coach. There are plenty of available successful coaches around that have a track record that would love to be at UCLA.

Before, during, and after every game Im going to be a Bruin, but this year is it for Dorrell to prove he can lead a team of Bruins.

by DumpDorrell on Jun 14, 2007 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Smart is not the problem

Dorrell is plenty smart. He was a National Merit scholar out of high school, so he likely would have gotten into UCLA without a football ride, and we all know, getting into UCLA is no easy task.

So if smart is not the problem what is? As much as it pains me to say it, is that he plays it too safe.

Safe in what he says, as he doesn't want to stir it up. I believe he is smart enough to come up with the witty comment, but he weighs everything so severly before it comes out of his mouth, that only the bland survives.

He's safe in his play calls, because he doesn't want to make the big mistake (Kerr's defenses and most of our offenses under Dorrell are very visual examples of this) yet by not being bold makes the far bigger mistake than rolling the dice and going for it.

Howland is so good on so many levels because he is completely secure in everything he does, and it shows across the board.

Dorrell unfortunately is insecure in handling the press and making in game decisions. I'm not ready to say Karl is insecure across the board, but he is lacking in these two major areas.

In short, Karl is plenty smart but he, as we often say here, doesn't coach to win, but not to lose.

And that is the biggest difference between Dorrell and Howland.

by Free the 16 on Jun 14, 2007 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Terry Donahue Factor

He played for the man who took playing not to lose to an actual science (on-line degree's now available). Those of us old enough to remember, can probably list about 10+ games during TD's tenure that his philosophy secured a loss from the jaws of victory.

KD coaches the same exact way without any of the charm of TD (just kidding about the charm thing)and currently,with less talent. Even TD was able to bring in the occasional 4 & 5 star recruits which probably helped him win a few games his philosophy should have lost.

KD is trying to emulate what he learned as a player from TD because he sees that type of coaching as indicating success on the field.

He's not very good at it either.

by artybruin on Jun 14, 2007 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

National merit scholar?

I didn't know that. I guess I'll have to revamp my thinking a little. I'll give him smart in everything except those areas where I've actually seen him perform - coaching football and speaking to the public. He still comes across as "not smart" to me.

Or maybe he got a head injury after the National Merit business. If that's the case, he has my sympathy, but still doesn't have my support as the alleged coach.

by Fox 71 on Jun 14, 2007 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Google Advanced Search

With the exact phrases "Karl Dorrell" and "National Merit Scholar" there were two hits (here and here). When you say National Merit Scholar, do you mean semi-finalist or finalist, or do you mean actual winner?

by SuperBruinMan on Jun 14, 2007 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he may have been a semi-finalist

But to be fair, I can't find it now either. I believe it was in an article shortly after he was hired or in year two, but I can't find a match now either. I remember reading it and it stuck with me, as not too many athletes are on that list at all, especially football players.

Maybe someone at Helix High knows?

by Free the 16 on Jun 15, 2007 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was at Helix High

20 years ago, but I don't think my "connections" are as strong anymore...

by Barnes2JJ on Jun 15, 2007 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That cannot be right

It is extremely rare to be a national merit scholar semi-finalist. There is no way Dorrell was that. Sorry, he would have been provided free rides to Stanford, Yale, Princeton and admission to Harvard (Harvard doesnt, or didnt then, give merit scholarships).

Sorry, someone got this wrong.

by DumpDorrell on Jun 15, 2007 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This could be a significant point

The only place I've seen Mr. Dorrell mentioned as a National Merit Scholar is here in this thread. Has he ever made any such comment or statement himself? Did he include that on his resume?

If some third party said that he was a National Merit Scholar, that would be one thing. That person may have gotten it wrong.

But if he said it or put it on his resume and it's not correct, then that's another thing altogether. Frankly, until someone can show me that Mr. Dorrell has made this claim himself, and can then show me that it's an incorrect claim, then I am not going to get worked up about it.

But if in fact he made a claim on his resume that is false, then that would be serious.

by Fox 71 on Jun 15, 2007 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dorrell Update

Using the feedback form, I contacted the UCLA athletic department and received the following response:

"As for Karl Dorrell, yes he was indeed a
National Merit Scholar in high school."

I followed up with:

"Regarding Coach Dorrell, I knew I read that somewhere. Is it in a program, on the website or somewhere I could link. I was telling a friend that, and they didn't believe me."

And then they replied:

"I was able to find it in an old bio of his from when he was a student-athlete here. It is possible that some sports writer picked that up and used it in a story at some point, however I'm not sure where it ran either. But it is indeed true."

So, confirmed, but still very odd I can't find it in print anywhere. Might someone have a program, especially from his first year, that might have the quote? I vaguely remember being at a game when I read it.

by Free the 16 on Jun 20, 2007 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

KD and coaching potential

If someone entered a donkey to run in the Kentucky Derby, and it ran real hard, had a good attitude, and tried, how well would it do? The point is at some point you need a thoroughbred that has a good attitude, runs hard, and tries real hard. At that time, results might be good, but the potential has to be evident. I did see a spark during the SC game last year, a valiant attempt to get over the hump (as in DG is talking to Mariucci), and it actually looked like KD was in the hunt, and fortunate at the end (that is fine with me). That is why next year is the year. It needs to be binary, either a great year or out.
Bill

BillSouthBay

by Mensgym on Jun 15, 2007 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately

Some people think that all we can get are donkeys. That is one of the myths we keep trying to dispel here.

This team is unbearably even-steven. In 2005, we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat 3 times. In 2006, we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory...3 times.

I just don't think KD himself has an eye for talent, or the wherewithal and skills to bring in top talent if he saw it. He just runs a clean program and keeps chugging along at .500, neither here nor there, infuriating some, pleasing too many.

by tasser10 on Jun 15, 2007 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since when???

Don't start dismissing the transformation that Walker initiated. Granted, he still has plenty of room to improve. But, working behind an idiot, and doing what he has done so far is nothing less than impressive. I think another thing that we forget is that our defense is on the field for a ridiculous amount of time because of our offense's locomotor retardation, yet is still top-10 nationally in rankings that don't take time on the field into consideration.
Also, you should try being more articulate. You're very insightful on the front page, but in the diaries you're quite insulting and ridiculous.

by jatteratious on Jun 14, 2007 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Slow your horses Ben Hur

I think Nestor spends enough time on his write-ups that he can afford to be as quick and dismissive in his comments as he wants.

Defensive progress noted and appreciated, but must show more consistency in every game.

by tasser10 on Jun 14, 2007 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lack of consistency

There is something to be said for consistency. My baseball analogies work a lot better. Remember when Eric Gagne's entrance into the game meant that the game was as good as over? And he did it over and over. And Warren Spahn - 20 wins a year like clockwork.

But then we have Bobo Holloman. He pitched a no-hitter in his first major league start, finished the year 3-7, was sent to the minors, never to rise again. Then there was Virgil "Fire" Trucks. In 1952 he pitched two no-hitters, but was 5-19.

I think Coach Walker's defense is like Holloman or Trucks. Brilliant at times, but dreadfully inconsistent over the long haul. Some of the defensive numbers were truly bad.

But that's not to say it's hopeless. In 1953, Trucks won 20 games. He had been traded and had a new manager. Let's hope that Coach Walker gets a new "manager" instead of Mr. Dorrell, and maybe he can flourish.

by Fox 71 on Jun 14, 2007 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Need 1 or 2 more faithful

for "advisor" or focus group to DumpDorrell.com for the next few weeks leading up to gametime. Basically, responsibility would involve just giving us your opinions via email regarding our plans to get something going re Dorrell should he stumble. We want to make sure we get our act together so that we can make as big an impact as possible if and when the need arises. We dont anticipate there being many emails sent out.

Must be a UCLA faithful and need to verify on BN or other such board. Apologies to those who we've had to turn away because they dont have a presence established. Confidentiality is required.

If you are interested contact us via the DumpDorrell.com contact page. Do it soon because tomorrow we will be closing it off.

by DumpDorrell on Jun 14, 2007 8:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs