Den Behavior

by jjreicher on Jan 26, 2008 1:30 AM PST

As a graduating senior I have been regularly attending UCLA sporting events for four years. This has truly been one of the greatest aspects of being a Bruin.

But fans, I have a bone to pick.

As mentioned in today's LA Times, the Oregon fans at Thursday's game were spitting out some rather awful chants that went far beyond basketball. Cheering and booing I have no problem with. Calling players fat or ugly--this has no place in the stands or on the court. If fans are part of the game, they should be expected to behave as such.

I am proud to be a Bruin, and one of many reasons for this is that I believe we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Yes we're college students, yes we get carried away sometimes. I'm not going to say I've never blurted out expletives at a football/bball game. But more and more I am realizing that chants like "F*CK SC!" in place of "Fight, fight, fight!" do nothing but reflect badly on our students, our university, and our teams. I am certain that the venerable Coach Wooden would agree. And I know for a fact that Howland has brought up this issue a number of times.

Attending games, I do not get the sense that many fans agree, especially students. There is a level of enjoyment acquired through being obnoxious. Chanting "Bullsh*t!" repeatedly after every slightly questionable call seems to be a real winner among fans.

I want to know the following:

What's your outlook, BNers?
Should we hold ourselves to a higher standard as fans?
Can we?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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I agree

I was watching a game one time with my 5 year old cousin and we had to put the game on mute because of the Den chanting "bullsh*t." There's not need for the swearing, plus the creative chants that don't include swearing are better anyways. I've always thought "take his whistle" was better than "bullsh*t." How about "I'm blind, I'm deaf, I wanna be a ref?" There's "When I get old, and I can't see, I want to be a referee...JUST LIKE YOU."

There's not need to swear and we have to remember that very often, there are children in the arena and watching on TV. We could easily substitue "Beat SC" for fight fight fight, instead of what the student normally chant when we play the Trojans. In general, I think the Den could get more creative with their chants and mix it up some. I can't remember the last time I heard a new chant from the Den. Let's get creative and mix it up without being vulgar. We have some of the most creative young minds in the country at UCLA and we should put them to use.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Jan 26, 2008 1:48 AM PST reply actions

As a current student

I absolutely agree with the sentiment about Den cheers. We are simply not being creative enough if we have to resort to the same expletives over and over again. Anyone can do that, and we can do better and also be classy at the same time. Like jj, I've been realizing that "F*ck SC" does not represent our university well - we can come up with classier and more creative chants against them. After all, we are better than them.

I'm also not understanding why many Bruins (not BN, of course) think the SC basketball game is such a big deal. Until they contend with us for a Pac-10 title, they're not really a rival in bball to me. Anyone find it a bit bizarre how students camped out so much more vigorously for the SC game? I camped out hours later for the Wazzu game and got better seats...

Class of 2010. GO BRUINS!

by Yoyo on Jan 26, 2008 2:42 AM PST up reply actions

Here's the answer

They're $C. Simple as that.

by AZBruin on Jan 26, 2008 7:54 AM PST up reply actions

my problem

with "f@*k $C" is that it gets used all the time... even outside of rivalry games. i hate to even acknowledge their existence when we aren't playing them and i think yelling it all the time just gives more ammunition to those in the msm who like to portray us as gutty lil bruins. the perception that we have an inferiority complex isn't a good one... and i'd like to see it end.

As far as language goes... there's a place for it and sometimes the crowd can't express their anger at a call or play through pg vernacular. Certain words express a greater degree of frustration and disgust and exist as such. for instance... when a trojie flops and gets a bs charge call in his favor, i yell "p<$sy!!!!" i think that is only fitting :-)

Dustball!

by dustball on Jan 26, 2008 6:33 PM PST up reply actions

yes

I was pretty pissed when I heard the Pitt Crew chanting that "Love's a pussy".

by True Blue and Gold on Jan 26, 2008 1:57 AM PST reply actions

Any trOJan can use profanity

It takes more intelligence to come up with articulate insults. Best example is Sir Winston Churchill. (For you trOJans, he was this English dude a long time ago.) His insults were harpoons through the forehead, but were done with no cursing and without a raised voice. One of my favorites: He got a telegram from Noel Coward saying "Here are two tickets for opening night of my new play. Bring a friend, if you have one." He replied "Can't come tonight. Please leave two tickets for the second performance, if there is one."

by Fox 71 on Jan 26, 2008 7:38 AM PST reply actions

One of my favorite Churchill quotes

There was a female member of Parliement that he butted heads with on a regular basis. She told him, "Sir, if I was your wife, I would put arsenic in your tea." He replied, "Madame, if I was your husband, I would drink it."

by bruinbabe2000 on Jan 26, 2008 3:35 PM PST up reply actions

I'll play the Devil's Advocate

First of all, let me state that I agree with damn near everything stated above.

However, I have to remind you that UCLA already has a reputation for being soft and prudish, and I think an occasional F bomb in the proper context is always acceptable. I remember a BB game against South Central a few years ago at Pauley. One of their goons put down a hard flagrant foul on one of our boys. And the stands erupted. My particular section was chanting Fuck SC and I would imagine most other sections were as well. SUC was getting beat by 30 so it was pretty obvious why the guy went for the cheap shot, and we let him know we weren't going to stand for it.

Another example of being overly prudish happened at the Rose Bowl. My brother and I had set up our tailgate, got the meat on the grill, and enjoying life as a Bruinl; when my neighbor makes this comment, "Its a little early to be drinking isn't it?"

Granted it was 10:00am, but hello? First of all its a 12;00am game, we had barely cracked open our beers and its not like we were running around hootin' and a hollerin.' There were no keg stands, no drunk, half-naked coeds. Just two guys enjoying a beer before a game. The fact is my brother and I are very mild drinkers compared to most and that's what I found to be the most offensive about this guy's remark.

I've seen some pretty borish behaviour in my time but if this run of the mill activity that wouldn't have raised a librarian's eyebrows is going to come into question, then some of the Bruin faithful are just going to have to sack up like they have a pair. Even if they don't have a pair.

A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden

by MexiBruin on Jan 26, 2008 8:04 AM PST reply actions

As a recent alum (2007) and a Den member

I'll say this: swearing should be at an absolute minimum, but I don't necessarily support a blanket condemnation. Basically, it should only be used in rare circumstances, and for effect, rather than a "Love's a pussy" or "bullsh!t".

When I was a freshman, I spoke to Jon Crispin at a campout and he told me that the players on the court hear everything Den members yell, which forced me to step up my game as a heckler for my last three years. I suggest that the current Den does the same.

The best taunts: heckling guys who passed on UCLA (Malik, Buddinger, etc) and talk to them about how much they would've enjoyed going to Final Fours. Last year I asked Hairston how it felt to be a second round pick and he cringed.

by dprodigy19 on Jan 26, 2008 9:14 AM PST reply actions

I agree that profanity should

be kept at a minimum. It just seems a bit crude and juvenile - is there a contact / leader at the Den to whom we could possibly petition to?

by bruinbunz on Jan 26, 2008 11:44 AM PST reply actions

Yeah, does The Den have a leader?

I was reading somewhere that the student leader of The Pit holds weekly meetings to plan their attack on the opposing team. Does The Den have a leader and meetings to plan their attack against our foes at home? I'd like to see solidarity in new chants and other such crazy shenanigans that should definitely try to distract the opponent. I don't mind the profanity, but I'm not with attacking these young men based on their looks or other things that have nothing to do with basketball.

by bruininthelbc on Jan 26, 2008 12:22 PM PST up reply actions

Yes

The den in fact does have a leader. Meetings are held in the Press room of the hall of fame every 2 weeks or so. At the $C game, special editions of the "Dirt" were handed out that opened to a creative sign on the back.

by lil eg not cs on Jan 26, 2008 1:43 PM PST up reply actions

The Den leaders

I personally am not very impressed with the guys running the den right now... When people started camping out on Thursday for the SC game they threw an absolute fit. And during the game, they've been really ineffective in running chants. If you aren't in the very center of the den, but instead are off to the side, it's impossible to join in on the 8-claps, there is absolutely no set tempo at all. They definitely seem comfortable holding their positions without feeling the need to push for excellence. They're just lazy, that's what it comes down to; we need someone w/ a full passion bucket to take over and run the den like someone who actually cares.

by jatteratious on Jan 26, 2008 2:03 PM PST up reply actions

To be fair

It's not the den leaders job to start the 8-claps. That's what the yell crew is for. They're the one's that are not as good as they have been in the last few years. Secondly, it's so much harder during basketball games to tell everyone how to do something the correct way because half the people don't go to every single game and know what to do. If you've ever been to a volleyball game it's much more coordinated since everyone there is a hardcore UCLA fan. And speaking of people who don't come to all the games, what is up with speeding up the UC-LA chant? That's a big issue because people who speed it up always end up running out of gas too early in the shot clock, start over, and you get this cascading effect which sounds awful. And what do you mean by them throwing a fit? What would they be unhappy about?

by captain mightykite on Jan 26, 2008 3:22 PM PST up reply actions

They do tell us

to try to not use profanity and be classy in our heckling. It works for the most part, but when you have people who don't attend games regularly, they're used to chanting F SC instead of fight fight fight.

by captain mightykite on Jan 26, 2008 3:31 PM PST up reply actions

Less Creativity, More Vulgarity

I see fan behavior in America in the same way that I see prime time TV shows. Fans, like TV scripts, want to catch the attention of their targets. If they don't make the effort to be creative, they can still get the attention they want via vulgarity. It seems like we are seeing more and more people decide that they don't want to make the effort, and are thus resorting to the profane route. We can be better than that. I've heard some creative chants in this post. Let's use them, and use them regularly. All it takes is one persistent person to start a new chant and eventually make it the norm.

by bruinjeff on Jan 26, 2008 11:57 AM PST reply actions

On a sort of related note:

http://hs.facebook.com/s.php?q=Max+Siemers&init=q

That is Max Siemers. He is the leader of the Pitt Crew. Another UCLA forum suggested posting the link to his facebook.

Have fun.

by True Blue and Gold on Jan 26, 2008 3:22 PM PST reply actions

He's not even from Oregon

How pathetic.

by jaffa on Jan 26, 2008 4:03 PM PST up reply actions

Thats not the leader

The leader is Daniel Cogan

by lil eg not cs on Jan 26, 2008 4:32 PM PST up reply actions

Have you really been attending games for four year

I do not want to be rude, but seriously your entire argument is flawed. For one, the amount of F*ck $C cheers have gone WAY down since my freshman year (3 years ago). We have talked to people about it, and the administration of the school has talked with us.

Unfortunately, there is only so much we can do. There is supposed to be a rule where you can lose season tickets for the year if you are swearing (F*ck $C chant in particular). The F $C chants have gone WAY down since, but when we are playing $C and there is a lot of testosterone in the crowd, there is almost nothing you can do to stop it. If you have been following the games for the past 4 or 5 years, you will have noticed swearing has gone way down, and the amount of fans have gone way up.

The speeding up of cheers is something we have tried to improve for the entire season, but it is again a work in progress. Yell Crew really needs to improve that.

Please come to an olympic sporting event and that is where the true UCLA fans are.

For people who are interested, The DEN meets Tuesdays of odd weeks (of the quarter, week 1, 3, etc) at 7PM in the press room of the Morgan Center. We do a lot more than just go to basketball and football games and I encourage you all to come to some of our meetings and see what we do.

by BruinBaller on Jan 27, 2008 4:44 AM PST reply actions

Yes....

and I have had the chance to attend non-bball/football events, and yes they are fantastic. Maybe you are right that there is nothing you can do to stop crude chants, but am I right that you agree that we should try to? My argument is only that such chants reflect badly on our university. Is this flawed?

As far as decreases over the past four years...I have seen an effort by the Den in this regard, but I really can't say if it's been highly effective or not. Perhaps you are right there, and I hope so, but we certainly have not eliminated it.

by jjreicher on Jan 27, 2008 8:50 PM PST up reply actions

Yup

You are right, we do need to. I don't think your argument is flawed at all, and the chants definitely exist, but they are not nearly as bad as they have been.

The Bulls** chant is definitely the worst, and I really enjoy the take his whistle, and "I'm blind, I'm deaf, I want to be a Ref one."

As far as the F $C ones, they really are not too bad during basketball. They tend to start, but die off really fast. The DEN and some administrators have definitely tried to work towards eliminating it.

The problem is that during some games (especially U$C), some random people show up and their testosterone, drunkness gets the best of them and they start chanting F $C. The fact of the matter is we can only do so much and we only have so much power. A number of the leaders have talked with people and asked them to hold off on the F $C cheers and when the band plays the song, we try to drown them out. It has been an ongoing conversation with the administration for the past three years, but it has not been solved 100% yet. We are continuing to work on it, but it is going slowly but surely.

Another problem is that some people when you tell them don't swear pretty much laugh in your face. As strange as this sounds, it is actually the case. Berky Nelson and gamestaff are on the lookout and are supposed to remove any people who are swearing.

I remember last year at the Galen Center a group of UCLA students were removed by UCLA game staffers for starting a F $C cheer.

It is a really difficult situation, and hopefully it can be resolved.

There are going to be a few instances where the crowd gets really riled up and we may not be able to control them, but hopefully we can keep this at a minimum. If you watch any other college basketball or football game, you are almost guaranteed to hear a Bulls** chant at least once throughout the game.

If you have any ideas on getting the swearing down let us know. We have been working on it for a couple years and it is definitely something that we need to continue to improve.

by BruinBaller on Jan 28, 2008 1:35 AM PST up reply actions

Vaugely related

Back in the mid-90's, I was at the original Oktoberfest in Munich (worth attending if you get the chance). The Hofbrauhaus tent at the fest grounds is mostly populated with Aussies and Kiwis. At random intervals during the day, "Aussie"-"Kiwi" chants start up. This one year, a bit before the fest, the French had tested a nuke in the South Pacific. So during the "Aussie"-"Kiwi" chants would go on for a little bit, they would spontaneously change to "F*ck the French".

Bob O. (Signholder #3)

by TuneMan7 on Jan 28, 2008 6:40 AM PST reply actions