Three years of Love for Bruins?

by Dodger Hater on Jan 29, 2008 9:58 PM PST Comment 43 comments

Is K-Love good for more than one and done?

There are people who think so because they are of the opinion that he will not be such a success in the NBA.

In fact, I know a long-time basketball observer who is a personal friend of Pete Newell and has helped at his Big Man Camps who thinks Love is not a first rounder.

Not only does he think he is not going in the first round, but he thinks that he will stick around for three years.

Whoo Hoo! I sure hope he is right, but I don't know.

Here are the observations that I would love to hear your takes on:

*Love is not 6-10, but only 6-8 and a half. He is huge, but not strong and needs to replace some bulk with muscle.

*While Love has dominated many inside players in the Pac-10, my friend said he would not have similar success against real NBA centers who can actually jump and have some athleticism. The Lopez twins and Brockman are not very athletic and don't jump well either.

*Said friend says he would play forward in the NBA and challenged me to think about what would happen if he tried to guard, say, Lamar Odom.

*He asked me to name a big white guy who was ever drafted highly who turned out to be a huge star.

*He said Love lacks the impeccable timing to block shots that Walton had, even though he is often compared to him.

*Finally, he says he needs to lose 10 pounds of fat and add 10 pounds of muscle and then he could be a middle second rounder in a couple years.

What do you think? Is my friend full of it or does he have some good points? I sure hope some NBA people share his opinion so that Love will stick around and play for us a while longer.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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If hes a top 10 pick, he's gone

and he would be stupid to stay.

by joeb on Jan 29, 2008 10:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

a little of both

I think he's a little full of it, but still has some good points. Love definately needs to get in better shape, but the 2nd round stuff is BS. Everyone else has him listed in the mid-1st round if he comes out after this year.

But I just can't respect anyone who talks about a "tall white guy". Compare player's games, not their skin color. Love is amazingly similar to Elton Brand, black or white.
-and andrew bogut (white), former #1 pick, is in his 5th year averaging 14 and 9. Not huge numbers, but top 5 center #'s; only behind Howard, Yao, Chandler, and Kaman. (Amare and Duncan aren't centers) Hes not a star just b/c he plays in milwalkee.

Lamar Odom plays the 3, not the 4. Love's D needs work, but name a college freshman that plays lockdown D. Even harder, a big man?

Robin Lopez isn't athletic? What is he talking about? He's rated as one of the most athletic big men in the country.

And the real question that scouts have to answer is does Love have the skills to play in the NBA? There's no question about that. He'll be a first rounder.

That being said, it would be awsome if he stuck around for 3 years...

by bruin11 on Jan 29, 2008 10:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

5 best centers

Don't forget Bynum

by lewkay on Jan 29, 2008 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that's pathetic...

i'm a laker fan and i forgot about bynum...i guess i'm just trying to ignore how good the lakers were with him

haha but yeah, bynums numbers are pretty even with boguts.

by bruin11 on Jan 30, 2008 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Duncan a PF?

I've never really understood the thinking behind saying Duncan isn't a center. Maybe it's just the Jazz fan in me, but to me a PF is a guy like Malone, and their games seem rather different. Plus Duncan pretty much always seems to be on the other team's center defensively, not the forward. Explanation please?

by jaffa on Jan 30, 2008 1:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Robinson

When TD came in the league, David Robinson was the center. After he retired, Spurs kept TD at the 4 and brought in random guys to fill the 5. He has range out farther and the other big guy will hang down low. Tim Duncan, as I recall, doesn't like to play center. That said, I don't get why they wouldn't play him at center either, especially as he gets worn down (age+playoffs).

by kidro2001 on Jan 30, 2008 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hm

That kinda follows my thinking - he's a "PF" because Robinson was around when Duncan was drafted and both played at the same time. He could have also played the "C" position and actually seems to do so in all but name only, which makes me wonder why people persist in saying "Duncan's the best PF ever," or "Duncan's not a center."

by jaffa on Jan 30, 2008 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wrong...

TD played the 5 but was listed at the 4 because he would never start over shaq in the all-star game and now the same is the case with yao. they brought in a series of 6'9'' guys who played the 4, but were listed as centers. he's a center!

Dustball!

by dustball on Jan 31, 2008 1:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dont forget Bynum!

13 and 10 in only 29 min/game. Has to be up there, at least until his new injury.

Sorry, but had to rep the Lakers.

On the topic of Love, hes DEFINITELY a sure-fire 1st rounder. Hell, Mark Madsen was a 1st rounder.

But the NBA has changed somewhat and a lot of the PFs these days are Long and Quick, a la Odom, Marion, KG. Btw, Odom plays much more 4 in the Tri and than the 3.

Love is a a tweener, if he slims down and becomes automatic from 15-20 ft. He is set for the NBA. All IMHO.

by kidro2001 on Jan 30, 2008 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

bynum and lakers

blow!

they'll be swept again by the suns or some other soft team again this year.

by stephons on Jan 30, 2008 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bitter Queens Fan Alert

How's that descent into irrelevancy going?

by Tydides on Jan 30, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Odom

plays the 3 in practice not in theory. Jackson has repeatedly placed him at the 4, but he refuses to get in the post... his 24% beyond the arc is why he is a 4 in the hearts and minds of all Lakers fans and coaches.

Dustball!

by dustball on Jan 31, 2008 1:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it will come down to...

1 - If we win a championship this year, there isn't much left for him to prove at the college level. If we don't, I think it would be difficult for him to leave a chance at a NC behind just to be a 15-20th pick and sit on someones bench most of the year.

2 - What he is actually projected at when the time comes. He certainly doesn't have the athleticism necessary to play the 4, nor does he have the height to be an elite prospect at the 5 in the NBA. He's definitely got enough skill to play either, so perhaps someone will take a chance on him regardless (if the Kings are in the lottery, they're a lock to take a shot on another white big man with fundamentals...). It's not likely he'll have peaked after his Freshman year either, so I doubt coming back has much of a chance of hurting his draft stock (that seems to happen more to elite athletes that continue to show no progress).

Those being the two biggest factors I see (for most players, not just Love), I think it's a crap shoot at this point. We don't know where we'll finish, but a NC is a realistic goal. We also don't know where he'll be projected at year-end, it depends a lot on who comes out, who boosts their stock in the tourney, etc. I'm certainly crossing my fingers for a NC and Love being projected as a late first-rounder who could improve with another year of work.

by cabz on Jan 29, 2008 10:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Love not a first-rounder?

I hope he isn't because that would mean he stays at UCLA longer. But that's a ridiculous statement. Can he name 30 players that he would take over Kevin Love? Love may lack the athleticism that other PFs would have in the league, but he can do so much that it can be negated. He's tough, he has size, he has a high basketball IQ, and he has a post game and a decent jump-shot. He will be drafted in the first round. If Zack Randolph can be paid over $13 million per season averaging 0.3 blocks a game for his career, NBA teams will certainly find a use for a player like Kevin Love despite his lack of athleticism.

by UCLA4Life on Jan 29, 2008 11:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

i agree, in theory

Looking at K Love, I do not see what exactly his role could be in the NBA. He's not big enough to be a classic-style NBA power forward and he's not quick enough to be a classic-style NBA small forward. He has a good set shot, but has not shown a jump shot, an absolute must for a 6'8" player in the NBA. On the plus side, he has shown rapid improvement on defense and rebounding in a short 20 games already. He's a very smart player and you know he will work. He's a great passer, and that's rarer than a great scorer.

With all of that said, the real issue is the current NBA. As we stand today, there are virtually no true centers left. Guys like Dwight Howard, Amare, Duncan, etc. have switched to center, leaving the PF position as more of a second SF. This creates a good situation for a more power-type player like K Love.

To me he's Farmar + hype. Solid player, definitely a good choice for an NBA team, but not an immediate NBA star. If I were drafting, I would be willing to take him late-1st round, no earlier. But if UCLA goes all the way with Love at the helm, he will vault himself into the upper echelon, NBA skills aside.

We love Love. The way I see it, his fate w/ regard to UCLA lies in our final game of the post-season.

by jjreicher on Jan 29, 2008 11:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

really?

Duncan is a center (he's played the 5 for years despite being listed as a 4)... Howard is only a center (see 7ft no jump shot, board and dunk machine)! add... Bynum, Kaman, Bogut, Chandler, Yao (and eventually Greg Oden)... there's plenty of centers in the league... as for KL, he'll pick and pop his way to a nice career. big wide screen and a nice 20 ft jump shot will compliment his passing skills nicely at the next level. he's an excellent rebounder (which is an underrated TALENT, see kwame brown and a list of other 7ft bigs who can't figure it out). I see him playing a roll similar to that of luke walton when he's placed at the 4 with the lakers... the difference being that KL has the size to play both ends. He may never be an all-star, but a 13pt 9reb guy with the court vision of a point will attract a lot of teams in the first round... just not likely a lottery team in need of a franchise player.

Dustball!

by dustball on Jan 31, 2008 1:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If he's never an all star

why would he be drafted in the first round?

by Dodger Hater on Feb 1, 2008 9:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Because

Most first rounders are never all-stars, and many don't help their team at all.

For example: 2000 NBA Draft

by SuperBruinMan on Feb 2, 2008 12:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not much of an NBA fan

I have never been a big follower of the NBA, but I suppose I'm as knowledgeable about it as the average Joe. I clicked on the link for the 2000 draft and find that I have heard of maybe 3 or 4 of those guys, and 2 (Moiso and Madsen) only because they were Pac 10 guys who I watched play college ball.

Turkolu (or however it's spelled) is the only guy who has any notoriety.

Were these the best basketball players available in 2000? And is it mandatory that teams draft players? Fans talk about some of the dumb moves that Steinbrenner has made over the years, but it looks like there is an entire league full of Steinbrenners, willing to shell out loads of bucks for guys who never produced?

Question - how many of these guys are still in the NBA?

by Fox 71 on Feb 2, 2008 6:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Right but...

what does that say about the NBA's plans to apparently draft him somewhere between 10-20? I mean, if you want someone so bad that you are taking a him after his freshman year, doesn't if follow that you think he is going to a superstar?

Most people's reaction on this thread are NOT that he would be a superstar, just a pretty good starter.

Certainly there are plenty of first-rounders who are flops. When are the GM's going to learn?

by Dodger Hater on Feb 2, 2008 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Enjoying this year, hoping for another

As Love has adjusted to the college game, his progress has been obvious - but so has his need for further development to be ready to face the speed, skill level, and the sheer length of the NBA season.

I've always been very aware of the huge leap many good players in college make between their freshman and sophomore years - obviously RW is a handy case in point. I'm trying not to be the fan here, but an objective, long time observer of players and the game - and I really believe at least one more year would be good for Kevin's conditioning, skill development, and thus his value in the draft. His basketball IQ is remarkable already, and with the types of teachers he has, Coach Howland most definitely included, he should be able to really solidify his stock.

I just don't see him as a guy looking to bag one good contract and not play much. If he keeps working, I believe he's capable of being a Charles Barkley type and enjoying a good pro career.

So, I think two years would be smart for Kevin Love and a boon to Bruin fans, regardless of what happens in March. I hope he feels that way after this season!

Jim

"Never mistake activity for achievement" - John Wooden

by bruinjim on Jan 30, 2008 12:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Barkley

I don't post here too much but I read a lot, and I think this is the first time I've seen KL and Barkley mentioned together. I, too, see the similarity, with the main difference being that if KL doesn't have enough quickness on the perimeter at this stage of his development (not that Barkley was ever fast, but he had quickness on the perimeter).

I won't speculate on his returning, just that I certainly hope so....

by haywood nighttrain on Jan 30, 2008 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Barkley

Perhaps I was watching a different Barkley, but the guy I remember was VERY athletic and could leap with the best of them.

by cabz on Jan 30, 2008 7:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So true

That is, until Barkely got fat and lazy. Then he just bumped his big butt into people.

by bornagainbruin on Jan 31, 2008 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I've heard that off the court, he is very nice

He's from Alabama and he does a charity fundraiser every year for the Minority Health Center here at UAB. One of my co-workers went to the event last year and said that he was as nice as could be. She said that Shaq was a real ass.

by bruinbabe2000 on Feb 1, 2008 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

One other factor...

KLove just might be tempted to stick around in order to insure a spot as a UCLA great. Leading UCLA to multiple championships and setting records might be enough to lure him to stay...

because I doubt he'll have the same chance at immortality in the NBA.
He has the money to stick around and flirt with the college game.

Think about it: owning the world as an immortal in the college realm, versus... doing OK in the NBA.
In that situation, I personally would stick around and try to set some records.

by jatteratious on Jan 30, 2008 1:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

your friend is full of it

love is not strong? how many nba players have the strength to throw the kind of outlet passes he does?

big white guys- Andrew Bogut, Dirk Nowitzki, Bargnani, Darko.. or do international stars not count. Even Spencer Hawes (not extremely athletic) was drafted really high.

Love has his limitations he's not 7 ft, closer to 6'8, 6'9. He won't match up well with Amare Stoudamire or Dwight Howard. A comparison I think of when you say 2nd rounder is Carlos Boozer. People said the same thing about him (short, not fast), now he's on Team USA and at the All-Star level.

All the mock drafts have love 10-20 range. Sounds reasonable. I hope he doesn't go. His incentives to stay could be that he likes college, his dad played in the nba so his family doesn't need him to go right away for financial reasons, he can move up to the lottery if he stays another year or two improves his quickness and becomes more consistent in outside shooting.

by stephons on Jan 30, 2008 6:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

To be honest

You're disproving your own point within your own post.

"big white guys- Andrew Bogut, Dirk Nowitzki, Bargnani, Darko.. or do international stars not count. Even Spencer Hawes (not extremely athletic) was drafted really high."

Bogut: 7 feet tall. Nowitzki: 7 feet tall. Bargnani: 7 feet tall. Darko: 7 feet tall. Hawes: 7 feet tall.

As the old saying goes, "You can't teach tall." I am very convinced Kevin Love is likely no more than 6'8.5" and may not even be that tall. He's not really a "big white guy," at his size he's a 4. But he lacks the athleticism of the majority of the NBA's power forwards. He probably will go 10-20 because of his skillset.

But he's very much like Hawes, in that when scouts look at him they don't see a ton of upside. What you see with Love is probably what you're going to get. Glen Davis, of LSU, is a pretty good analogy for Love (in his junior season before getting drafted Davis averaged 17.7 points and 10.4 rebounds, very similar to Love's 17.3 and 11.3) - and he went early 2nd round. Love's a bit younger and more skilled, true - hence his higher likely position. But at the end of the day, it's unlikely the NBA will add to Love's basketball IQ or increase the size of his skillset, as those are the source of his success to date.

He might choose to return for a soph season only if he believes the year lost in the NBA is made up for by an increase in fitness (S&C program, and just growing into his body like everybody does as they enter their 20s). Though as somebody mentioned above, the desire to join a winning team might mean he leaves this season, as he's likely to end up drafted towards the late parts of the 1st, meaning he'll end up with a winner (see: Afflalo on the Pistons).

I hope he stays. I don't think he has much to gain if he does, honestly, with regards to his draft position. And I certainly hope that at the end of the year he's trying to decide whether or not he wants to defend his NCAA title. One can only hope! :)

your right about the height issue

he's definitely not close to 7 ft. But other than the fact that he's white, he's not much different than Carlos boozer or Big Baby, both are big but not that tall, more skilled and slower. Yes they were 2nd rounders. If the draft was done over, I think both (boozer certainly) would be much higher. I'm not sure NBA execs will make the same mistakes. Love has been fairly highly regarded growing up, and is living up to hype at UCLA. I don't see him being dominant in the nba due to size and athleticism, but the second round claim is highly unlikely even if he leaves this year. He's a lot like Tyler Hansborough, but I think he's more skilled in terms of nba potential. Most of the draft boards seem to have him around 10-20 range. That was my main complaint with the post.

by stephons on Jan 30, 2008 8:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

College Life,

from what I have read, seems to appeal to Kevin. It might come down to the fact that he is having a great time, likes his teammates and the coaching he receives, and doesn't need the money.

by Dodger Hater on Jan 30, 2008 12:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Carlos

Boozer is big for a power forward he is 6-9 266 and is built like a tank. He can use both his left and right hand with ease and he has a great 15 foot jumpshot. He is though one of the worst defenders I've ever seen.

Love reminds me of Nick Collinson on Seattle except a couple of inches shorter but the same kind of game. Both play hard have nice post games and are good around the basket. And they both weigh about the same too. Love though is a better passer.

by abby8065 on Jan 30, 2008 12:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Degree?

Ever heard of going back to school after you clip a few million dollar coupons. Honestly, there is no reason to forego huge money in order to earn a degree by the time you are 22. Hmmm, would I rather have a bachelors degree ASAP and risk an injury, etc. that excludes me from earning enough money for me and my siblings to retire by the time I am 27, or I would I rather take all the money, return to school when I am done, and take no risk at all.

by schumd on Jan 30, 2008 5:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

nba is full of it

I hope as a Lakers fan that Love slips in the draft he chooses to come out in. Yes I think I could live with Bynum at 5 and Love at 4. Love not being strong is just silly. He could certainly lose some baby fat and get in better shape, but that will come because as all of us have seen he keeps getting better and he keeps working hard. He is an ox not because he can curl and bench, but because he knows how to use his butt, legs and torso to establish position.

We can count on one hand the number of NBA players concerned with positioning. Too many players watch the action then try to use their superior athleticism to make plays. How many power forwards exactly can shoot like him? As he has proved against Hardin and Lopez he is difficult to get wound up against to block his shot.
If he continues to improve his skills and gains some more strength and mobility with some weight loss he will be a beast and any NBA team who passes on him are going to prove as usual why the teams in the lottery continue to stink and the teams that get Kevin Love in the 20s continue to dominate. As skilled as he is I think he will continue to improve both physically and technically, but I am crossing my fingers that the so-called NBA experts don't recognize a potentially great player when they see one.

by Penny2i on Jan 31, 2008 2:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

1 more thing

Forgot to mention that you can't teach hands. Yes it's nice to hear how you can't teach height and athleticism, but it is tiresome to see teams draft athletic big men who can't grab a basketball. That equals nearly worthless to me (see Kwame Brown)

by Penny2i on Jan 31, 2008 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ben Howland and Love

In one of the prior posts here, there was a TV interview with Ben Howland. In that interview, if memory serves, Ben Howland sounded like it was not likely that Love would be here next year. I trust his judgment as to who is NBA material, particularly as he is now sending players to the pros on a regular basis.
Turning to the other most likely early out, I hope that Darren Collison looks at this injury-riddled year as a step back to being NBA ready. I would love to see him at full speed for one more full year at UCLA.
Does anybody else remember the Howland interview ?

by islandbruin on Jan 31, 2008 4:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Oregon center Leunen expossed a weakness.

Kevin Love could not keep up with him defensively. Love has tremendous footwork offensively but has very slow lateral movement defensively. This is not a skill that can be taught.

Love is very similar to Don Maclean. There is not a defensive position he can cover in the NBA. Too small to cover a center and too slow defensively to cover 3's or 4's.

NBA is a game of match ups and one on one play. Teams will run isolations for the guy Love is trying to cover.

My friends all laughed when I said Ed O' and Toby Bailey would not be good NBA players.

by mr havercamp on Feb 1, 2008 4:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

You are correct

but that is EXACTLY why Love came to UCLA, to learn defense from Howland. So that might mean he would stay another year. There is a chance that he would test the waters like AA and decide to come back, but there are enough teams in the NBA that don't play defense that he might get drafted anyway.

Don't you wish Ed O' had Howland to teach him defense? It pained me to see him not do well in the NBA, he was such a great guy. I was never too fond of Toby though, he was kind of an arrogant jerk.

by tasser10 on Feb 1, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're underestimating Love's NBA potential

Most of this argument is based on nothing changing and how Love would fit into an existing offense. But Love's passing opens up new possibilities for teams that know how to exploit it.

I'm also not too worried about his jump shot. He doesn't do badly at threes now and that's only going to improve. His excellent free-throw shooting is an additional indicator that he has the touch to be a good shooter.

That said, he would do well to stay until he reached a developmental plateau with Howland's coaching. As long as he's progressing and is in no immediate need of the money, he probably should enjoy these precious years. Basketball will never be as much fun in the pros as it is in college.

by Chandler on Feb 2, 2008 2:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

This morning on "Game Day"

They talked about this subject and brought up some good points. First, they mentioned how even though Bill Walton won NBA championships, you will hardly ever hear him talk about them. He will talk about how much he loved his time at UCLA. And it applies to us too. I'm willing to bet good money that all of us alums here look back on our time as students as some of the best days of our lives.

Second, they mentioned that he may not be ready to carry a bottom NBA team. Now, I don't really follow the NBA, but I do think it would be incredibly hard for a 19 year-old to carry the weight of a team, no matter how talented his is.

Then again, I thought MJD and Jordan Farmar made mistakes going pro early, and I happily feast on the crow they are serving me.

by bruinbabe2000 on Feb 2, 2008 3:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I am not saying you are wrong about Farmar

but how did leaving early help him? Couldn't he have been an even higher pick by waiting. It is not like he went to the Lakers and started to make hay right away. I guess I want to know how it is that you are eating crow.

by Dodger Hater on Feb 2, 2008 4:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Disclaimer:

I don't follow the NBA very much, and I'm not living in LA right now, so the information I get about Farmar comes directly from my old man. He tells me he's been getting a lot of minutes and is a positive contributor.

I guess the fact that he is not crashing and burning is enough to make me eat crow, but maybe it's too early to tell.

by bruinbabe2000 on Feb 2, 2008 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

For a second year player

He has really come into his own. It says something that the Lakers were willing to deal Javaris Crittenton to get Gasol because Farmar was playing so well. He is legitimately a part of the rotation as the sixth or seventh man on what is now a contending team when Bynum returns to health. I, too, did not think he was ready, but now all I can think about is the fact that he would have been a senior this year.

Forget about crashing and burning, he is showing great potential and delivering on it, and now he is two years closer to the end of his Rookie contract and the "big money" than he would have been had he stayed. It sucks for the Bruins, but Farmar made the right choice, and as a Laker fan as well, at least the Bruins' loss is kind of my gain as well.

by Tydides on Feb 2, 2008 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs