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Bruin Offense

Love what Ben Howland has brought to UCLA hoops: Toughness, Defense, Pride. I have to say the one area that I'm a little dissapointed in is the lack of offensive creativity.

No matter the players, offesnse is still very slow and methodical and lacks ball movement. It was easy to predict we'd struggle with the 1-3-1 as you need crisp passing, quick ball movment and spacing to beat it and we had none of the 3.

I don't agree it's the Freshmen's fault.  Majority of the turnovers came from DC and JS our experienced seniors. I blame it on our offensive schemes.

Not necessarily dissapointed with the loss, but with the fact that the first few years of Ben ball he mentioned personnel as reason for not running more. He now has the atheletes to press, create turnovers, not to mention a deep bench.

The players' expressions make them look like they aren't enjoying playing the game and that they're so worried about making a mistake that they aren't playing loose on offense.

Love the final fors, love the defense, just would like to see some more fluidity on offense. It was also very easy to predict a Duke win vs 1-3-1 because of the way they spread the floor and pass. Why not change it up from time to time?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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What an original topic

Not hing insightful in your first post. So I will respond with a cut and paste response.

I have seen only 1 and 1/2 game this year. From what I am seeing out there I see a team in which players are clearly getting used to each other.

I have to lol when I read comments about Howland needs to change his offense. Howland’s system at UCLA is so established at this point is that any changes to his offense would probably also entail adjustments to his defense? Why would we want to change a system that has clearly worked not only here in last three-four years or everywhere Howland has coached at?

What is essentially going on is right now our players are getting used to each other. They are "thinking" before their shots and passes. Once they get used to each other, I think they will become less mechanical and more fluid in how they operate as a team.

I am excited to see how these kid come along this year. This is why I love college basketball. It is fun to watch a team grow and develop under a great coach.

by Nestor on Nov 22, 2008 9:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Chill

major respect for the work you do here everyday, Nestor, but there’s no reason to insult a guy because he airs out his opinion.

i have a theory that great coaches sometimes purposefully lose games. or at least, put the team in a situation in which they are likely to fail. i can swear i’ve seen phil jackson drop games in the regular season by design. and i can swear i’ve seen howland do the same. i think sometimes there is no greater motivational tool than a loss, and these guys know it. mind you, i am NOT saying they are telling their players to tank—-what i mean is, i think they seem to stop coaching, stop substituting guys, stop making adjustments. seemed to work, as the guys came out with tremendous intensity on Friday. howland loves when his team is underrated, and the loss to mich. will put him in that position (amazingly enough, he’ll convince us that a team w/ 3 straight final 4s will be an "underdog").

absolutely no worries about this team. let’s hope aboya can finally achieve his potential. go bruins!!!

by jjreicher on Nov 22, 2008 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not so sure

I know where you’re going jj, and I agree with your point, but I just wouldn’t say CBH “purposefully” loses games.

I would believe, however, that CBH (and Phil) intentionally allow their teams to fall into very challenging circumstances, in order to see how they react, and to get them prepared to deal with adversity, and teach them how to respond in those circumstances.

Great coaches and great teams use losing for its teaching points and motivation to keep it from happening again.

For a competitor, there is nothing good about losing. The great ones, however, will make something good come out of losing. So I could buy CBH “testing” his team early, knowing that they’ll grow and be better off for it in the long run.

greg in denver - UCLA guy for life

by gbruin on Nov 22, 2008 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

It isn’t fair to criticize him for just airing out his opinion, but it is fair to criticize when someone shows up to BN for the first time and trots out a tired-ass comment that we’ve heard time-and-time again and throw it up as a FanPost. An argument that has been shot down time-and-time again.

This is not Arizona. We do not play flashy, run-the-floor, defense-be-damned Lute ball. This is Westwood. We play in-your-face-defense Ben Ball. It’s not pretty. I don’t want it to be pretty. I want to win. We’re in the Final Four every single year. Why? Because of Ben Ball. Because defense is something, if done right, taught right, drilled right, is consistent every single game. Offense is hot and cold. Some nights, and Josh Shipp knows better than most, you go stone cold. Some nights everything you throw up finds nothing but net. Defense is stable. Defense keeps us in every game, no matter how hot or cold we are on the other side of the floor.

You can criticize our offense all you want, but doing so shows a very elementary grasp of not only college basketball, but what Ben Ball is all about.

By the way, if you’re going to come to BN and try to assert a lame-duck argument, at least try to use proper English, proper capitalization, and proper spelling. If that is what UCLA students write like now, I’m f**king embarassed.

Writing like garbage belies your argument. It makes me, the reader, think “man, this moron can’t even spell properly, punctuate properly, or even form a basic sentence.” It turns me off from whatever you’re trying to say and chalk it up to you simply being a complete dumba**. A typo here and there, or an errant punctuation mark, I can understand. No one is perfect.

But good Lord, this FanPost is just terrible. Whoever taught you to write should be smacked upside the head. Hard.

by Bellerophon on Nov 22, 2008 5:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree 100%

with Bellerophon. Not only is this FanPost not insightful, it barely makes sense. The person who wrote it must not watch many games. I imagine he catches some highlights on WWL and takes a peek at the box score. A game in the 50s may not be exciting for some, but getting the W makes up for it. Basically, all of the people who have been following Ben Ball since CBH stepped foot onto campus know that his system is genius and it works. UCLA is not flashy, our players do not showboat, we simply win.

For all who do not understand CBH’s philosophy, I am hoping this cliche will help:

DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS

GO BRUINS!!!

HP
Class of 2006

by BruinBeer on Nov 22, 2008 7:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A game in the 50's is thrilling

Ben Ball is a thing of pure beauty. I never get tired of watching our tireless defense frustrate the other team to the point that they can’t make an open shot. The slow pace becomes pure joy when you realize how we use it to take the other team out of its comfort zone, and that moment is when you see defense as an art and not a dull game. By playing lock down defense, Howland’s teams make opponents adapt to his style and play his way just to stay in the game. Trying to force the game back to an uptempo offensive show after the defense has begun to assert itself only helps UCLA’s lead grow (see Arizona).

The best part of watching Howland’s defense take over is what it does to opponents. If they are not frustrated into dumb decisions, poor shots, and poor execution, they have to play in the same style to keep the score from getting out of hand. That means trying to match UCLA’s defensive intensity: contesting every shot, going for every rebound, and working yourself to death on the defensive side. As we have seen, this works about 30 minutes. That is when the other team can no longer keep up. I have seen many games over the last 3 years that fit this pattern, where we cannot get and hold a lead no matter what and the other team seems to be playing out of its mind. Then, halfway through the second half, as if by magic, everything starts to break our way and we pull away to win by 10-20.

That is all by design. Defense is beautiful. You just have to understand what you are watching. Howland will not entrust his team to luck so he makes sure his teams are the best at the one thing that is consistent from game to game and that can take down giants: Defense. Because of our defense, we always have a chance, no matter what. Even when our offense is totally stagnant.

by Rhapsode on Nov 23, 2008 2:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A common comment from UCLA opponents

After they lose to UCLA, almost inevitably they say something along the lines of, “They didn’t beat us, we beat ourselves”, or “We’d have won if made a couple more of the open shots at the end”.
Coach Howland’s defense is the reason they miss the easy shots at the end. They’ve had to work on every single possesion, it takes it out of the legs.

Bob O. (Signholder #3)

by TuneMan7 on Nov 25, 2008 11:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not just CBH's defense

CBH’s offense does it too. You have to work harder on defense than you do on offense so if our offense is running 25-30 seconds off the clock every position and are constantly moving, it will wear on the other team’s legs.

I know we always say that the lower scoring the game, the better it is for the Bruins, but if I were coaching against CBH I’d try to get into a low scoring game. Make CBH’s team defend for 30 seconds and wear them down. Look at the scores of our most recent losses to teams that didn’t have superior talent (Memphis) and you’ll see that we’re not losing games in the 70’s. Teams that are willing to make us work for longer defensively are the ones doing well.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 25, 2008 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a hunch

that we won’t be hearing from Altbruinups anymore.
I’m glad that he dropped in and gave us all something to laugh at. Cheers.

by eubruin on Nov 24, 2008 9:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a hunch

that we won’t be hearing from Altbruinups anymore.
I’m glad that he dropped in and gave us all something to laugh at. Cheers.

ps. A little research indicates that he hasn’t posted since his first rock-star performance. Sorry if I’m being mean, but that’s just pathetic.

by eubruin on Nov 24, 2008 9:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

jj

Do not lecture us on how we should moderate or run our community. Consider this your first and last warning. Thank you.

by Nestor on Nov 23, 2008 8:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As you posted

this at 10 o’clock this morning, I at least assume that you had a chance to take a look at the highlights from last night’s game, if not the entire thing. With that in mind, I do not understand your contention that the UCLA players aren’t happy. Did you not see the smile on Aboya’s face as he jammed it down after the senior-senior-senior combo? That play in particular was exactly what you asked for: a turnover that lead to some very creative and full speed offense. I do agree with you that we have the capacity to do so MUCH more often, however, at this stage let’s be thankful for small glimpses of the future. It’s too early to be demanding fluidity and poise on offense.

By the way, have you not noticed the JOY emanating out of J’mison Morgan? The guy is always smiling, clapping, and cheering his team mates on. Quite frankly, this may be the happiest bunch of players I’ve ever seen in True Blue.

Further, BH’s defensive and offensive style is what has gotten us those 3 final fours. If the consistency of our appearances in those games is any measure, perhaps you can’t have one without the other. BH did mention that he would like to run the floor more, so let’s give him some time to develop that style with his new players.

Welcome to BN by the way.

by eubruin on Nov 22, 2008 12:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It never ceases to amaze me.

We have the best coach in the country. He has taken rebuilt a program that was decimated by the pretender he succeeded. He has taken teams to the final four three straight years. He has put lots and lots of players in the NBA. But still there are the critics who pound on him for his offense. This is the same offense that outscores the opposition something like 90% of the time.

AtlBruinUps, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But so am I. I am much more comfortable with Coach Howland running the show than I would be with you calling the shots on offense. If he decides to take your advice (and that of lots of other guys who drive by and take a pot shot), then so be it. But I think Coach Howland has managed to lead the team fairly well without your advice in the past, and I suspect he will continue to do so in the future.

Or maybe not. Why don’t you make sure that Dan Guerrero has your resume, so he will be sure to call you after he fires Coach Howland for having such a crummy offense.

by Fox 71 on Nov 22, 2008 5:45 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Our offense could be better

There’s no doubt about it and Howland has admitted as much. He said after the Final Four last year that he should have changed his matchups and would look into diversifying his offense some. We don’t have the world’s best offense and I don’t think anyone here would argue that we do, but if you’re going to come here with a comment on our offense then do so with something original.

Tell us what we could do better and where our offense is limited. You say you want us to change it up from time to time, but what do we change it up to? There’s also the fact that Howland likes to wear teams out with longer offensive possessions that cause the defense to work hard. How does that strategy fit in with an adjusted offense? How would we maximize the strengths of our personnel in an adjusted offense while still maintaining some of the objectives of our current offense?

Nobody is going to criticize you for coming here and disagreeing with some of Howland’s strategies. Howland has been questioned before and he will be questioned again, but come with something more insightful.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 22, 2008 5:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't mean this to be a criticism of CBH's offense

It’s a fine offense and has served us well, but there is room for improvement. CBH has admitted as much and I have no doubt that once the new guys learn the basic principles of the current offense we’ll begin to work on some new things, but it takes time.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 22, 2008 6:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My point was that Coach Howland is on top of things

He sees the offense every day in practice. He is more knowledgeable about basketball than anyone in the BN (well, maybe except for me), and I think we can trust him to do what is necessary to maximize our likelihood of winning. Sure, we can criticize, but that criticism needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Example – I think our defense (football defense) could be better. I don’t know how to make it better. Coach Walker has been hired to do just that. The last time out the defense performed well. Does that mean that Coach Walker listened to me, or does that mean that he did the job without bothering to consider my input? (Or as some might suggest, did we have a good game because Washington was hopelessly inept.)

Again, I suggest that we leave the guidance of the team to the best coach in the business.

by Fox 71 on Nov 22, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll play Devil's Advocate

I stayed away from the topics dealing with our loss to Michigan because I reserve the right to be upset about the loss. It was unforgivable. I’m sure many of you will respond to my post with reminders how We/Howland has struggled against Beilein coached teams. I know because I was singing that song to everybody that asked for my reaction to the loss. But deep down inside I was angry I had to defend our loss at all. And why was a defense needed? because we lost to an unranked team without the glorious recruits we have brought in on the wake of our tournament successes. Nobody would say squat had we lost to Duke. They are ranked. And they are coached by a legend. There is no shame in losing to a Krysweski (sp?) coached team.

But, we lost to Michigan. And the one thing this loss has in common to those losses in the final four against Memphis and Florida was a stymied offense. I’m with you guys. I would much rather have our current program with it’s wins and deep tournament runs than the previous version with flashy games and occasional upsets against might opponents only to lose reliably to inferior opponents in the tournament’s early weekends.

I would like to see us employ the Run and Gun. The R&G is based on the tough nosed kind of defense that produces steals and defensive rebounds. On top of the fast strike ability of the R&G a team can always elect to reset to a deliberate half court offense when a team recovers in time to prevent the fast break.

I am also a big fan of the Princeton offense because it employs a clock killing deliberate offense that many times ends in crowd charging back door cuts to the basket. I remember being introduced to the Princeton offense by Princeton and Pete Carrill himself, and I’ll never forget it. It is poetry in motion, and entirely dependent on a team first (no superstars) mentality we love here in Westwood.

A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden

by MexiBruin on Nov 22, 2008 8:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It's early

We’re all upset. We all would like to go through the season undefeated. We would all like to see another run like Coach had when I started in school. Well, if we’re going to be undefeated we’ll have to wait until next year.

I don’t think Coach Howland demands a slow-down offense. I remember just the opposite last year. He would yell “Push, push” when we started the ball up court. (The length of the court outlet from Love was an anomaly – we won’t soon see that again.) But I trust Coach Howland to use an offense which works with our defense and maximizes the likelihood of a win. If that means using the run and gun, so be it. (As I recall, Paul Westhead used the run and gun at Loyola Marymount and scored lots of points but with at best a mediocre win-loss record.) If it means emulating Princeton, then that’s fine with me. Or if it means doing what has gotten us to three straight final fours, then I’m OK with that too.

But remember it’s early. We need a six game winning streak at the end of the season. What happens now means more to writers in the fishwrap than it does to me. I’ll be upset, just like you, but I won’t let it get me worked up. It’s early, Mexi – let the Coach get some things worked out. (And remember also that decent free throw shooting would have resulted in a win, and that’s not on the coach.)

by Fox 71 on Nov 22, 2008 9:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

The offense isn’t really a “slow-down” offense. I just think Howland wants his guys to be careful with the ball. If a play isn’t there, then don’t try to make it. That’s why all the turnovers against UM were so discouraging to him. He puts faith in DC to not force stuff, and that’s why the shot clock always ends up in single digits and nothing has really happened. It’s because a play wasn’t there and DC didn’t force it. For all that we’ve said DC has struggled this year, a lot of it is because he’s so good with the ball usually – and that’s because he doesn’t try to force a pass through three guys or take the defense on 1-on-3.

Therefore, with a few sloppy plays per game, it seems like he’s really struggling. I have no doubt that DC will be fine, and with the athletes we have this year, I think the offense will be the best it’s been during Howland’s tenure once we get into the flow of the season.

by bucknellbruin on Nov 23, 2008 11:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Trying Not to be Redundant

CBH played 10 players against Michigan, and most got significant minutes. He played 12 against SIU.

We all agree he hates losing, and didn’t “try to lose” a game, but I join with the others above who think he might risk losing an early game like this to build for the future when the games mean more.

And, here is the redundancy I cannot avoid: We have 5 young, superb but inexperienced players. Of our starters, only 2 have played significant minutes in the past. CBH is using these early games to: give people playing time, try different combinations of players, build chemistry — none of which are conducive to having an efficient offense.

CBH has his eyes on the prize. The prize is not necessarily winning these early tournaments or games.

The prize is winning the Pac 10, getting a high seed, and then winning the tournament.

We will not get there LATER — if we don’t let him do what he thinks he needs to do NOW.

sjh

PS. And, I think as good as our freshmen may be, they are really “thin” and need the year in the weight room to really blossom and play well in the Howland system. We have seen this happen so many times that it should be without question. The best example — probably Russell Westbrook.

This is the first few weeks of a new season with a new team. Chill.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Nov 23, 2008 5:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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