A Question For Bruins Nation ...
Would the basketball season still be fun, if UCLA didn't have a great chance to win the national championship?
I was thinking about this the other day:
I think we have a good team, potentially a really good team.
But it isn't quite as good as last year's team. How could it be, we lost three NBA players in Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love and Luc Richard Mbah A Moute. Love, in particular, was a dominant force for the team and as much as I enjoy Alfred Aboya, there is no comparing the two as centers.
But, my question is, so what?
See, I really like watching this team. In some ways, I find it more interesting and enjoyable to watch this team come together and seek to fulfull its potential. Last year's team, to me, was championship or bust. It was so good and it was coming off two straight final fours and the hype around Love was so spectacular, that it felt like anything less than a title run not going to satisfy. Just watching the games was tense -- I didn't just feel that the team could win every game, I felt like it had to win every game.
This year, it is a little bit different, there's more mystery. Coach Ben Howland is still experimenting with different combinations and he's even toying with some motion offense. We've won most of our games so far and even the losses haven't hurt that much.
So, the question is, what if the team isn't quite as good as last year and isn't predestined for a run at the championship. By the way, I'm not ruling out a championship. I'm just not sure we're one of the two or three favorites like we were last year, when us, Memphis, Carolina and a few others were clearly the best teams in tne country. We might be in the next five or ten this year, a team with a shot, but not the odds on favorite.
I'm wondering what readers think. No doubt, some will respond by telling me I'm wrong, that we are one of the odds on favorites. That's fine, but that's a different question. My question is more, is it possible that watching a young team with a lot of freshman grow and look to meet it's potential in some ways as enjoyable as a great team on a title quest -- or is a title quest the only thing that's fun about UCLA basketball and anything else is unacceptable.
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Yes and yes
I was a student during the final Lavin years, any team Ben Howland puts on the floor will grow more throughout the a sibngle year than any Lavin team did in 6 years cumulatively. I also think that this team has the raw athletic ability to win a National Title (if they grow faster than expected).
Remember, in 2005-06 that team was only expected to go to the sweet-16. They defied all odds by cruising through the tournie to reach the title game.
The pieces are in place, it’s now up to the coaches and players to make ‘it’ happen. Howland has proven in the past that he can get it done.
Victory or until next year!
by ncrpz2 on
Dec 10, 2008 10:52 AM PST
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I agree
I was a student during the beginning og CHP’s reign of error. I am the only one in my family who attended UCLA and they did not win a basketball championship while I was a student. I have only seen one basketball championship in my lifetime and I was not yet an official member of the UCLA family.
Do get frustrated with the mistakes they make? Of course, but as someone here once remarked, CBH is the only person younger than 98 that I want coaching this team.
I don’t mind flying under the radar this year.
by bruinbabe2000 on
Dec 10, 2008 1:14 PM PST
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I love BB
I am certainly having a great time watching this team. Sometimes I do find myself wondering what could have been without any NBA defections, but that isn’t realistic and I am happy with our squad and how we are developing.
And it’s great to come into a game knowing that 59-0 won’t happen. That we are going to acquit ourselves really well. I do like this quote though.
No doubt, some will respond by telling me I’m wrong, that we are one of the odds on favorites.
Sure we have a chance this year, but anyone who says that we are the odds on favorites this year with a astoundingly good UNC squad would have to be:
1) Delusional
2) A homer to an amazingly staggering degree
3) Visiting heretofore unvisited depths of their arse with their head
The only person who fits those three — Vic the Brick Jacobs
by OCBruin95 on
Dec 10, 2008 11:11 AM PST
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Nice
This made me laugh, but I agree with this post entirely.
While any team can get lucky and win a championship, I have personally never felt this current squad was a championship or even a Final Four team. We have some very solid seniors now, but we lost a lot of talent who are now playing very well in the NBA.
But I still think it’s great fun to watch this current team “learn and grow” as one of our esteemed former coaches used to say. Apart from the second Florida championship team a couple years back (when the seniors decided to forego the NBA for one more year), it’s pretty damn hard to repeat your success in college ball.
So, if you have your expectations in check, then you can just appreciate this team for what it is instead of sweating it out and wondering if they will make a title run. They probably won’t—so I just enjoy them for who they are now.
by Barnes2JJ on
Dec 10, 2008 11:37 AM PST
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I know I'm enjoying it
The pressure and expectations does take a little bit of the joy out of every win. Each game last year was framed in a different context: “What if we played like this in March?” This year, after fully recognizing that we have a more difficult task in terms of matching the last three years, I go into every game looking at the little things again. Familarizing myself with a fresh set of faces, all obviously among the most talented at their ages that we have had in the CBH era, and watching the improvement as they adjust to the college game brings the excitement back to regular season games where in the past we may have not fully appreciated these games for what they are because of the implications down the road.
At this point, I still don’t know what I expect out of this team. Given that so many of the guys that we are going to count on down the stretch are still adjusting, this is a no brainer to me. Sometimes I think this team looks like the Dijon Thompson led Bruins that went out in the first round against Texas Tech. Other times I see the early stages of the Bozeman/Hollins team that went considerably further than that.
by Tydides on
Dec 10, 2008 11:21 AM PST
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That's pretty much how I feel ...
but I wondered if others felt the same.
On one hand, we’re not odds on title favorites — on the other, I’m actually enjoying this team more in some ways than last year’s team.
Good to know I’m not alone.
Go Bruins
by Achilles on
Dec 10, 2008 11:26 AM PST
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I agree.
There is so much less pressure even in just watching this team. I like that. Being able to appreciate all of the things that this team does is so much better than scrutinizing what teams of years past haven’t been able to do.
by WestsideBrandon on
Dec 10, 2008 9:24 PM PST
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Progress
I had the pleasure of attending both the Biola game and the CSUN game this year and it has been a lot of fun to see the team progress. They have made tangible improvements and it is exciting to watch things come together like that.
by brand0n on
Dec 10, 2008 11:52 AM PST
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The march to a championship
like last season was both more enjoyable and painful because the emotional investment is greater when expectations are higher. I can watch todays team and can calmly disengage from the game if need to, whereas last year it was a mad dash to and from the tube(Pauley is too far from my home). Yes I do enjoy the seeing the young players develop and I look forward to that time when we can expect more from them. But the intensity is just not there yet for me.
by brewinz on
Dec 10, 2008 12:27 PM PST
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How about this question: Are we still rebuilding from Lavin's destruction?
I find myself answering it, “yes” and “no”.
On the one hand, we’ve been to 3 final-fours in a row, have the 2nd or 3rd best starting point guard in the nation in senior DC, and solid upperclassmen in AA2, JS, and JK.
On the other hand, Howland’s ability to recruit elite big-men has really only been in place since our first final-4, which was three years ago. And the only players we currently have on our roster since that first final-4 are all Freshmen (Keefe and Dragovich were recruited before that final-4, IIFC). Also, other than DC, all our elite players are Freshmen (I realize I’m excluding MCD AA Keefe). So, in my mind, the argument could be made that we are still in the process of upgrading our talent, and therefore, still building the program.
I only mention this here because I have been wondering why I have enjoyed watching this team as much as last year’s team, even though the upside doesn’t seem as promising as last year’s squad. I think the answer is that I love watching not just this year’s team grow, but also watching this program continue to grow. And it is a thing of beauty, thanks to CBH.
by bornagainbruin on
Dec 10, 2008 12:46 PM PST
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This really is a fun team to watch ...
and watching it grow is really part of it.
And that doesn’t mean we’ve “lowered our standards” or anything like that. We still want the team to win it all and, really, it could. There is some really good talent on this team.
But the team has an element of the unknown attached to it, replacing the pressure of “it must win” and that’s sort of nice.
I really like the players on this team — they’re good to root for.
Go Bruins
by Achilles on
Dec 10, 2008 1:20 PM PST
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I'd say no
if your elite players are freshmen, that could be 1 of 2 things
1) You have many seniors, that aren’t talented
2) You don’t have many seniors because they are all in the NBA
When a team is expected to make the championship event of their sport, it takes away from the journey. Its like the lakers right now. Last year the ride was great. This year the entire focus is beating Boston in the finals.
by kidro2001 on
Dec 10, 2008 1:28 PM PST
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My expectation
is still to win the Pac-10, at least the regular season. I think the only team that should really challenge us for the top spot is Arizona State, and U$C is actually a threat too. I think winning the Pac-10 tournament will be tough.
Aside from that, I really want to get into this team and start seeing the players develop into their roles: who will be the top notch defender? Who will be the cold-blooded killer? Who will be the silent force? Who will improve by leaps and bounds and take people by surprise? Who will be on YouTube most? :)
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on
Dec 10, 2008 2:18 PM PST
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It is still fun, just a little less fun
We don’t have the upper-class talent we’ve had in the past, and that is why we have the team we do this year. Good, Could be Really Good, but not close to Great right now.
Center-Mass
College basketball is all about recruiting. If all players at UCLA stayed all four years, I am pretty damn confident that we would have a top-5 team yr. in and yr. out. Howland is that good of a coach and recruiter. However, when random acts of greatness strike a program (e.g. Westbrook and Farmar, to name two of many) and players start leaving really early (after sophomore yr) and at the same time, there is a real danger of highs and lows, and tweener seasons. Highs being final fours, lows being solid tourney runs-but less than eliteness.
Collison is great. And some of the freshman will be great. But this year is really about Shipp, Roll, Dragovich, Keefe, and Aboya. That is the center-mass of this team-and to be honest, it is good, but not great. Contrary to a comment above, the center-mass is not all that athletic, and in my opinion, kind of specialzied—not necessarily well-rounded in terms of skills.
To be fair, no one could have predicted two or three years ago that this would be the core of the team. But this is what happens with top programs from time to time. I’m not sure exactly how Howland envisioned these players when he brought them in. Were they supposed to be stars? Roll players? It’s hard to say (though I’d tend toward Roll) players. But it doesn’t matter, because they are who they are, and this year, they are the core of UCLA.
Injuries have really hurt this group. On the other hand, it is fair to ask whether these players have lived up to their expectations. I’m not suggesting they haven’t, all I am saying is that it is a fair question. If even one or two of these guys was a legitimate star, we’d be much better. Now, maybe Howland always envisioned these players as Roll guys, and that is distinctly possible. But it is also possible that they are underperforming. [I recognize not all these guys are seniors, but in my opinion, returns are diminishing on most if not all of our center-mass]
Recruiting and player development is infinitely complicated. So when all is said and done, I think this year is best looked at as a tweener year. I personally don’t see this as a championship team (hope to god I’m wrong), just too little athleticism and not enough skill to overcome it. And of course, not quite enough time for more than one freshman to turn into stars. But it is still going to be a good year, and a fun year.
Getting back to the main point of this thread, however, I don’t think the year is quite as fun after you come to the conclusion that the team probably doesn’t have elite credentials. The journey is awesome, but its the potential end which keeps it building and building all year. Take away the end, take away a little fun.
by rfirpo on
Dec 10, 2008 2:21 PM PST
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That's sad
If UCLA basketball is “fun” for you only if we make the Final-4 every year, then I suggest you pick some other sports team to follow. If UCLA basketball is only fun to you if we put a “championship” level team every year, I suggest you just go back and scrounge up some Wooden tapes and keep hitting “replay.”
Comments like this gave characters like Steve Lavin so much media juice when they were pushing the BS meme of “spoiled” and “unreasonable” UCLA fans.
by Nestor on
Dec 10, 2008 2:27 PM PST
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Uhhh
At the end of the 2nd to last paragraph he said this year will still be a ‘fun year" All he’s saying is that it’s a little less fun because he doesnt think that we are a championship team.
by lil eg not cs on
Dec 10, 2008 9:04 PM PST
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And I am saying
That it’s sad to come into this season with that mindset just because at this point of time we are not set up for a championship run. I think that’s somewhat of a defeatist attitude and takes away from the total joy of watching a team grow and develop under a great coach.
by Nestor on
Dec 11, 2008 4:35 AM PST
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I try to look at things as a fan, and also objectively
As a fan, I’ll always have hope. And as is abundantly clear, I never said UCLA is only fun when we are a championship caliber team (but of course, you know that already).
I’m fine with people who always keep positive and believe in their hearts that a team is capable of winning it all. That’s great. But in my opinion, that’s not always reality as I see it. And what’s wrong with reality. I don’t think that is sad, even if you do.
You know, things are not always perfect or ideal at UCLA. And that’s ok. Recognizing (or tyring to) one’s limitations is actually pretty great, not defeatist. If it hurts your general message for the board—I’m sorry.
And if you think that watching a team like UCLA football’s team is as fun as watching a team like UCLA basketball team, I respectfully disagree. And one of the main reasons is the hope for greatness at the end. It’s always fun to watch UCLA sports, but it is more fun to watch a team with a Chance.
by rfirpo on
Dec 11, 2008 7:57 AM PST
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You are changing topics
Why are you bringing up the UCLA football team. Of course its difficult to go through the rebuilding stages of UCLA football? But comparing a UCLA football program which is going through a painful rebuilding process v. a UCLA basketball program which has already been rebuilt is a bit ridiculous.
I enjoy every minute of a Coach Howland basketball program especially now that it is firmly established as one of the elite programs in the country. Sure it is down a bit this year compared to last year due to some departures of veterans, but so freaking what. That doesn’t diminish an ounce of fun from watching this team grow and evolve into what I believe will be a solid team at the end of this year and perhaps a great one in next 2-3 years. It is a beautiful cycle. If you don’t enjoy this part of the growing stages then its too bad. I don’t have a lot of respect for those who only show up to have TOTAL FUN when the product is complete.
That kind of vibe belongs on Yankee and USC message boards full of front running fans.
by Nestor on
Dec 11, 2008 7:35 PM PST
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The Bruin Paradox
I totally agree with you Nestor, and am looking forward to seeing this team mature into something special, to see the freshmen become great. How great was it to see Westbrook come out of nowhere and become one of the top picks in the NBA? He didn’t start out as a great player, but he sure finished as one, and in the process became one of our favorite Bruins of all time.
The paradox is that at UCLA, we expect championships, yet Coach has taught and preached patience and humility…while at the same time winning all these championships! I think people are losing sight of the journey and only thinking of the destination. I for one enjoy watching the games a lot more when I don’t expect us to win every game…those seasons are gut-wrenching and they make me feel like an unreasonable jerk. I’ve enjoyed every run we made in the tournament, but 2006 was more special because it was the culmination of Howland’s amazing turnaround. Now I want to see this “rebuilding” year culminate into something special too, but for now I’ll just enjoy the ride!
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on
Dec 12, 2008 10:58 AM PST
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Long-term view
Another element to consider is to not view this as a one-season journey, but a multi-year journey. I am sure Coach Howland is thinking a bit more fourth dimensionally. Look at the players available to us this year. Subtract our seniors and those bound to be grabbed early by the NBA, but then add the new recruits next year, etc.
So, the question then becomes, not are you enjoying watching the Bruin basketball team this year, but are you enjoying watching the team in this era?
by Joe Bruin on
Dec 10, 2008 2:46 PM PST
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Let's just have fun
Let’s see, so far the Bruins lost in New York to a coach who’s had the team’s number for years and in Texas to a very good team, and both were winnable games. This team offers a different kind of promise—seniors playing their hearts out, freshmen adapting athleticism and skill into the CBH system. Even the Northridge game was fun, seeing JH and ML show off some skills we don’t usually see. There’s a pretty weak Pac-10 ahead of us, and unlike last year, only UNC is stands out above the opposition. I’m optimistic—everyone should be.
by Herodotus on
Dec 10, 2008 3:07 PM PST
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I have to speak my mind
We were rated pre-season #4, and I (and probably most of you) kind of agreed with this ranking. #4 implies that we were projected to be a serious contender for the Final 4. There is no doubt that this lofty ranking was the result of “experts” expecting upper classmen Keefe and Roll to have developed into a serious inside force and a consistent deadly outside shooter, respectively.
I think the basis for this post by Achilles is the recognition that Keefe and Roll have not lived up to expectations. And probably never will. Thus thus our goals have to be reset.
We would be every bit as good as UNC, if Keefe and Roll would perform as projected at the start of the season. Maybe there is still time for them to “come up to speed,” who knows.
by bluegold on
Dec 10, 2008 3:16 PM PST
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Let's see
if a full season of actually playing injury-free will allow Keefe and Roll to develop their full potential! This is the time to really support the team…a little less talent, but hopefully a lot of heart, let’s give them all we got!
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on
Dec 10, 2008 3:22 PM PST
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Right, because preseason rankings are always accurate
We would be every bit as good as UNC, if Keefe and Roll would perform as projected at the start of the season.
lolwut
You’re talking about a team that was also a Final Four team with us last year, returned EVERYBODY, against a team that lost the #4 and #5 overall picks in the NBA draft, a solid veteran senior big, and an underrated second round pick. And you think we should be on par with them this early in the season? It is to laugh.
by Tydides on
Dec 10, 2008 3:24 PM PST
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Never mind who we lost to the NBA
It is who we (supposed to) have returning. I, along with many others, had thought we saw in the Western Kentucky game what Keefe would be doing this season. And there had been many reports of Roll shooting the lights out in practices, and that he was fully recovered from his injuries.
Granted, Love is irreplaceable, but we have a phenom in Jrue this year, a supposed one/done.
All this, PLUS a 4th year AA in Collison — one of the top guards in the nation — and the additional senior leadership of 5th year Shipp. AND one of the top recruiting classes in the country.
So, no, it is not laughable to believe (prior to the start of the season, that is) that we were, indeed, one of the top teams in the nation along side UNC.
by bluegold on
Dec 10, 2008 3:53 PM PST
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Before the start of the season
We made pretty clear about the questions and concerns we have about this team.
JK finally came around towards the end of last season after he started getting solid mins due to LRMAM’s injury. Once he started playing without having to worry about getting yanked after his first mistake, he was playing better. He is adjusting a bit this year in first six games with his new frame and weight. Lot of us are more than happy in being patient with him. I also think its kind of laughable to count this kid out just 6 games into his 3rd season. I remember pretty clearly how some kids like Kris Johnson didn’t become a factor deep into his 3rd season. Then there was Zidek, Matt Barnes etc. JK is going to be allright. If you are going to badmouth him and call him a “disappointment” you will need to do it somewhere else.
As for Roll, the kid is shooting at 50 percent which also includes shooting from the 3 pt line. he is doing just fine. I never expected him to be an All American as I expected him to be a solid role player and he is on track.
I wrote before the start of the season:
the goal right now for this team is to improve game by game, and then get itself in best position to compete and defend our conference title in February and March. Then, if they can get themselves a favorable seed in the Western region, based on a consistent development and improvement through the regular season, we will buckle up and once again take our chances with our head coach and his Ben Ball warriors.
Nothing has changed.
So chill.
by Nestor on
Dec 10, 2008 4:25 PM PST
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Nevermind who we lost?
What? Are you freaking kidding me? Not only are you expecting these guys to step in and do jobs and play roles that they haven’t played before but you’re also expecting them to come in and seamlessly adjust to playing more minutes and becoming more of a focus in both their offensive and defensive roles. If only it were that easy to replace lottery picks.
This may well happen, but you’re absolutely kidding yourself if you ever thought that we should look as good as UNC at this stage. Do I have to remind you that Ryan Hollins was once maligned for not living up to his potential, only to have everything click in the last third of a single season to help us get to the title game?
Once again, it is to laugh.
by Tydides on
Dec 10, 2008 4:49 PM PST
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Pre-season rankings are meaningless
First of all, the experts who create these rankings are just blowhards, in my opinion. If they were as smart as they purport to be, they would not waste their time doing talk shows. They would be at the sports books winning gazillions of dollars. It seems to me that these blowhards don’t know any more about the relative merits of the best 25 teams than any person selected at random from the Den. The fact of the matter is that even if all the blowhards say that team A can’t beat team B, generally the game is played anyway, to see of the players might actually want to decide things on the court.
(Another pet peeve – all the time devoted on ESPN to shows in which experts tell me what’s going to happen. How about a show in which there are reports – a description of what actually happened. And it’s not just sports – it’s politics and the market and colon cleansing and juice machines. And the fact of the matter is that these experts of blowhardity are just full of hot air. The moral of the story? Now you know why the volume control was invented.)
by Fox 71 on
Dec 10, 2008 3:28 PM PST
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What are the preseason rankings supposed to reflect?
Is it a reflection of how each team is perceived at the start of the season, or the potential that a team may reach at season’s end?
If the latter is true, the various preseason rankings placing the Bruins in the #4-8 range does seem reasonable. If the former is true, then the rankings would seem to have been quite a bit off.
As we all know, we have a great freshman class which is already making an impact on this team. By the end of this season, this group may well see their level of play begin to approach their very high potential which may help this team make a deep run into March (and April). But no matter how good these 5 players are, there is only so much of an impact that they can have, this early in their time in Westwood. The fact that CBH is relying on them to play a significant role in this season tells me that some room (and time) to grow is needed for this team.
by bruinhoo on
Dec 10, 2008 11:15 PM PST
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I honestly don't think it reflects a thing
Probably half the people think it’s the former and the other half think it’s the latter, so you get a poll that reflects neither. The preseason poll is the most worthless of all polls, but the regular season ones really aren’t all that much better. Just look at how much weight the selection committee gives your poll ranking (to my knowledge, that would be zero).
by Tydides on
Dec 11, 2008 12:30 AM PST
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You misread me ...
I wasn’t trying to impugn Roll and Keefe at all — and I’m not defending them now, either.
I just think there is more mystery about this team and probably a few lower expectations without Kevin Love on the team.
But, really, I wasn’t thinking specifically about Keefe or Roll when I wrote this.
Go Bruins
by Achilles on
Dec 11, 2008 10:03 AM PST
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Then mia culpa
But I stand by my premise, that the #4 ranking (whether you personally believe in such rankings or not) bestowed upon us at the start of the season took into account the anticipated arrival of Keefe and Roll. And that if these two players ultimately develop into major contributors, then I believe that we will stand as good a chance as anyone else — including UNC — to make a run to the title.
by bluegold on
Dec 11, 2008 10:38 AM PST
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I disagree
The ranking had more to do with the arrival of the freshmen than of Keefe and Roll. The media hyped the freshmen and believed its own hype in giving UCLA a #4 ranking. They will eventually live up to the hype, I have no doubt. Just not in their first games as freshmen!
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on
Dec 11, 2008 11:35 AM PST
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Wonderful Question For Discussion, A.
It occurs to me that watch this year’s team might be a little more “fun” in the sense that there will be good surprises, too…not just bad ones. What I mean is that last year, and the year before, if our warriors were getting beat, or if they lost a game—any game—it was a shock to me. It was never a surprise to me when they blew another team away, and those “heart attack kid” games they had were almost too much to bear. (Don’t misunderstand, I grateful to every one of those kids, and I could not be more proud of them—every one of them.)
This year, I know there will be games where this team comes together, clicks, and plays beyond all belief. I’m looking forward to jumping up and down on my couch, screaming, laughing and crying at the same time when this new team just explodes and puts on a clinic. Those are moments when I feel so very lucky to be a Bruin…(well, I always feel very lucky to be a Bruin, but those are special moments in time.)
I’m with Fox on the rankings—especially this early. I really don’t care what those coiffed, vapid, overpaid talking heads think will happen. I just want to watch my team play this terrific game.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on
Dec 10, 2008 4:03 PM PST
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The team has a long way to go
After watching the team in a few games, there is a lot of potential. I’m particularly impressed by Jerime Anderson and his ability to handle the ball and penetrate. Not sure of his scoring ability because he hasn’t played very much. The team has to learn how to play with eachother and trust eachother. Jrue and Darren can take anyone to the hoop. Jrue needs to be more aggressive, so does Shipp, especially.
But our depth is bad in the front court. Alfred and Keefe seem to be the only ones who can play Howland defense and Keefe isn’t that great to begin with. Dragovic has slow feet and Gordon is just learning. Morgan doesn’t have his hands up on defense and is kind of slow, too, but I think has bigger upside in the post than Love did. I’m just drawing off what I saw in the tournament and the Texas game.
I wouldn’t even think NC right now but getting this team in gear for conference. They will eventually be cohesive because Howland is coaching and making great adjustments if you watch them after the timeouts. Once they learn their roles then this should be a great team. Darren has to learn how to trust the other guys. Lee looks like a really good player. Jrue reminds me of Jordan when watching film of him at North Carolina.
by bruin95 on
Dec 10, 2008 4:09 PM PST
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I don't know about more potential than Love
At least not as a college player. Maybe down the road in the league sometime, then maybe because of his athleticism, but KLove has a unique skillset and he was truly ready to go from the very first game in terms of skill.
by Tydides on
Dec 10, 2008 4:54 PM PST
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Anderson
I think Jerime has progressed the most of the freshman so far. He is starting to get a handle on the college game. Although he still has a lot to learn.
by lil eg not cs on
Dec 10, 2008 9:10 PM PST
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C'mon, if you can't enjoy a talented team like this one...
then you are really spoiled by the past success. Just enjoy and perhaps marvel at the athleticism of the new guys and surprising (to me at least) emergence of AA.
by SinnerBoy 99 on
Dec 10, 2008 5:01 PM PST
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I Just Have To Say...
(Collison predicted AA’s emergence this past summer in a radio interview. I knew he had to be right.)
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on
Dec 10, 2008 5:14 PM PST
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Heart
I’d rather watch and support a team that lost once in a while but played with heart, discipline and determination to grow than a Lavin team in disarray. The Lavin teams could pull off wins that took them to the Sweet 16 but why does that have to be the measuring stick? His teams had to depend on themselves, without any guidance, leaning on their talent.
His teams get blown out at home by UC Irvine, Cal State Northridge, Santa Clara; teams we should have a great advantage over.
There is no question CBH develops his players. I mean, he made Ryan Hollins into a draft pick. Remember his first two years under Lavin? Don’t you think Gadzooks and Moiso left early because they knew they would not develop under Lavin? It was hard watching these teams depend on the weave at the top of the key.
by likasahente on
Dec 10, 2008 5:47 PM PST
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Definitely Fun but there is one little thing...
That is a great question. I am also finding this team fun to watch and certainly less stressful from last year when I expected at least a Final Four birth if not an undefeated season (one can hope, right? :) So in that way it is more fun. But there is something missing that has taken a little bit away from the fun for me too. I am not sure what it is but I think it could do with my sense that we lack a killer instinct. I just don’t see it in DC or JH (or any of the others yet) like I saw it in AA, JF, and RW—the desire to have the ball and take over the game.
Our guys are great players and seem like really great kids. I love the team and I’m proud of them no matter what. I just would like to see at least one of them elevate to another level. Remember how RW did that last year? Or AA the year before? And JF the year before that? Who is going to be that guy this year, especially in the tough games?
I think DC and JH are especially capable but I still haven’t seen it much from either of them. I think DC has had the opportunity and while he is a great PG and shooter, I don’t see it in his personality. I thought we would get it in JH given his track record. But I don’t see it (yet!). I hate to fault any one for this because it probably makes JH a nicer person and better team player, but I can’t shake the nagging feeling that he (and the team) would be better off if he grew in this area. I’m not talking arrogance—just a little more belief in himself. He seems so nice. I want to see him get a little mad and take over. He definitely has the skills. He’s missing just a little of the attitude.
Does anyone else agree? Or maybe you see it differently. Perhaps it is too much to ask of a freshman. I think I was expecting another KL type superstar given the hype that surrounded Jrue. But I don’t see a one-and-done here at this point. And I suppose that is where I am feeling a little disappointed in the team’s potential. It is a very small complaint on the whole, so don’t get me wrong. In general I am very happy with the amazing job CBH has done in creating the best program in the country in a very short time.
Bruins Forever
by bruinsince69 on
Dec 10, 2008 6:13 PM PST
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This season has been fun
and for me at least, more enjoyable than last. I too had great expectations for last years team and believed at the beginning of the season that they had the possiblity of going undefeated. OK so I was a little delusional. Rfirpo is a little wet saying this team is not as athletic as years past. Just compare backcourts. JF,AA, CD were of average speeds. The team speed improved with DC at point. This year’s backcourt is as fast as last years if not faster. This is why we have heard the team talking about running more this year. It is not certainly because they are LESS athletic. AA2 is the most athletic center since Hollins. So this team has plenty of team speed and athleticism. Probably the deepest team that CBH has had in his years at UCLA, Maybe ever.
That being said, this team has a way to go to get to the level of the previous three. Reminds me alot of the team of 05/06. What remains to be seen is if there is one player on this team has the court moxy of JF or CB. That team always had a player who wanted the ball with the game on the line be it JF,AA, or CB. This team, imho, has the potential to be the best of Howland’s career, they need more time to gel and play together knowing intuitively where their teammates will be. We should see equal parts of DC, JS and finally JH stepping up to provide points as well as leadership and this team will be fine. Unfortunately, it seems every year we have a team that represents our Achilles (no pun intended) heal i.e. the only team that COULD beat us. It was Florida for two years, Memphis last year and this year it appears to be UNC. At this point of the year it looks like many teams could beat us….and that’s ok for this time of year. By tournament time I believe UNC will be the only team in that category. But they could lose early in the tournament, I would rather see Bruins beating them of course.
There is no other coach I would trust to lead this team more that CBH. He will have this team prepared to play every game.
by chirobruin on
Dec 10, 2008 6:41 PM PST
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National title
I don’t see why this team cannot be a title contender this season. Did anyone think the Bruins would be in the title game a few years ago just 8 games into that season?
by UCLA4Life on
Dec 10, 2008 6:46 PM PST
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You could say that about anyone...
and that is the fundamental beauty of college basketball.
by brand0n on
Dec 10, 2008 7:18 PM PST
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I definitely share some of the same feelings.
I don’t feel nearly the same pressure watching this year’s team. Last year, I was greatly hurt by each loss. This year, they’ve lost two out of their first six and I don’t mind at all. I think that any team in this new era will be fun to watch because we as fans know that there is potential. We aren’t stuck in a rut. There will be improvement. We probably won’t make it as far as we’ve become accustomed to in years past, but we do have a good team to look forward to.
And hey, if you read the blurb in the sports section today, you saw the Wizard telling us all to be patient with this bunch. He likes what he sees, and that has me sold. Let’s take Wooden’s lead and see how this all plays out. Hey, with lowered expectations, we might just be happier at all of this team’s potential successes.
by WestsideBrandon on
Dec 10, 2008 9:22 PM PST
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12th banner
I seriously hope we win a 12th one soon. But I love watching conference play. Now that the Pac 10 tournament is back too, its all the more fun to watch. And I would rather we win the Pac 10 reg season than go to the Sweet 16. Its simple, winning the Pac 10 regular season means that the Bruins play18 consistent games over a 2 month period. Much more fun that watching a couple of weeks worth of Lavin wins.
by likasahente on
Dec 10, 2008 10:30 PM PST
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I'll go back to 1969
The Bruins had just lost the greatest player in college basketball history and another top-5 pick, Lucius Allen, not to mention the sweet-shooting Lynn Shackleford and the brains of the team, Kenny Heitz. What did they have in their place? One returning starter, albeit the immensely talented Sidney Wicks. To replace Kareem—a slow 6-9 forward named Steve Patterson. At the other forward, really the third forward, Curtis Rowe. At guard, the untried sophomore Henry Bibby (freshmen didn’t play varsity in those days) and the equally green junior John Vallely.
Everyone took a deep breath and thought back to 1966, when a good Bruin team lost the Pac-8 championship and thus didn’t make the much smaller tournament; before 1976, only conference champions got to the NCAAs.
What did they do? Lost a couple of games along the way, won a couple of very close games—and won the Pac-8 and the NCAA championships.
I’m not saying this team will bring home number 12, though I won’t be surprised if it goes a lot farther than all the naysayers think it will. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
by Herodotus on
Dec 11, 2008 4:08 AM PST
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Excellent point, H
That was the “Between Team,” between Alcindor and Walton. That was a monumentally exciting team. Patterson was basically a big nobody. He saved his best game for the championship against Villanova – 29 points on just about all baseline jump shots. (And as I recall, his shot was weird. He sort of stuck his left hand out sideways when he shot. But that shot went in for 29 and we won by 4 or 6 or something like that.)
I don’t know if we’ll win it all this year, or win the conference. There are no really weak teams any more, and just about every kid playing D-1 ball was a star in high school who is accustomed to success. Hence, no one is intimidated about playing UCLA or coming into Pauley, which is something that I think helped us in years past. What I do know is that we have a leader in whom I have complete confidence. He is a teacher and a developer of players. We will undoubtedly do well this year, because it is extremely unlikely in my opinion that our coach and our team will lose games that they should win. I think it is more likely that the success we have had in the past will be repeated. And so I echo what Herodotus says – just sit back and enjoy the ride.
by Fox 71 on
Dec 11, 2008 5:05 AM PST
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I'm sports fan
I love sports. I loved watching a lot of college football, even when neither of the teams playing was UCLA.
In basketball , my team is UCLA. I love to watch them play. I always have high hopes for the team, and watching the team come together over the course of a season is thrilling. Even last year, KL noticeably improved from day 1 to the Final Four.
This years team might not have the exceptional level of talent of last years, but it is a solid team, with a lot of raw talent in the freshmen. Fundamentals (a staple of CBH teams) plus talent will always go a long way. I look forward to catching as many games on DirecTV as I can.
Bob O. (Signholder #3)
by TuneMan7 on
Dec 11, 2008 7:17 AM PST
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I think its even more fun.
The uncertainty of knowing whether or not you are going to win creates an excitement you don’t get when you go into a game you know you should win. That Gonzaga game for example is great memory because it was such a great upset. We took down the team that along with Duke had a Player of the Year candidate. The basketball world was salivating over a Duke/Gonzaga and Morrison/Redick match up all season long. I was just happy to be in the tournament and past the 1st round after the loss to Texas Tech the year before.
So you’ll be as surprised as I am that we were the higher seed that year. It sure didn’t feel that way going in. When we are a top team, the close games are more maalox moments than magic moments.
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
by MexiBruin on
Dec 11, 2008 6:40 PM PST
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Fun- Relative Term
The question which was asked was “would the basketball season still be fun if UCLA did not have a great chance to win the national championship”. The short answer from my perspective is “yes”.
A lot of the replies seem to be directed to a different question “is this basketball season as fun as the last three years, when UCLA went to the final 4”.
The short answer from my perspective to this question is “maybe not”. Before everybody jumps down my throat, please let me explain.
The reason the prior three seasons were so much fun in my mind was not the fact that we got to the final 4 each season. It is that we got to see the rejuvenation of a program by a master coach, which had been driven into the ground by his predecessor.
It was so much fun to see a coach who thrived on fundamentals, and instilled in his players a drive and a mental toughness. This was reflected in the super improvement of JF and AA under his tutelage for 06 and 07. Last year was a different thrill because we got to see how CBH was able to work with a completely different talent, in a superstar post player. Thus, we have been able in prior years to witness a rebirth of the program, and to see this rebirth restructured last year for a different talent set.
This year, we are seeing a continuation of the CBH standard of excellence. Inherently, to me, this is less fun than seeing a rebirth. It has nothing to do with whether we are more or less likely to make it to the final 4. “Less fun” does not mean “no fun”- it simply means less. That in my mind is not a bad result, but rather simply reflects the inevitable maturation of the program.
So again, would the basketball program still be fun- yes. Is it as fun- maybe not. These two answers are not inconsistent. The bottom line- we should all be thankful that we again have a master at the helm, and that we can look forward to seeing a superior teacher at work developing young talent. Let’s enjoy the show.
by islandbruin on
Dec 11, 2008 11:00 PM PST
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I believe you are asking 2 questions:
1. Is watching a young team learn and grow (in some ways) as fun as watching a dominant team on a inevitable title run?
Answer: In some ways, yes, in many ways, no. I enjoy watching my Bruins right now, but I would imagine I am no where as giddy and on cloud nine as the average UNC fan is right at this moment.
2. Is a title quest the only thing that is fun about watching UCLA basketball and all else is unacceptable?
Answer: Of course not. Most programs are lucky to get a legitimate title run once a decade. The elite programs, maybe once every 3 or 4 years. If we are thrilled only by title runs, we are clearly tuning out a lot of basketball, even “rooting” for an elite program.
by godblesstyus95 on
Dec 12, 2008 2:34 AM PST
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