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Scout.com's Editor: "gang situation is a problem at USC"

According to Bob Lichtenfels, a "Regional Recruiting Manager" for Scout.com:

The gang situation is a problem at USC  a lot bigger problem for the players then what people are led to believe or what gets out publically. Hazelton for example has had a few run-in's with them, as have severaal other players such as Allen Bradford. Fans hear what is reported you don't always hear the stuff that is swept under the rug.

Vidal Hazelton is of course a Trojan WR, who is transferring out of Carroll's program this season.

More from Lichtenfels who had this to say after getting pushback from Trojans in the same thread:

When is the last time you saw a Blood or Crip in State College or Piscataway or in Missouri or Texas Tech. It is an issue out there and if you think it is not your naive, it is an issue in most major cities with Universities. I'm not saying that is the reason for his transfer, but being robbed twice in a year and for cops not to do much at all is probably a little alarming to a kid

We will let others read into whatever they want to read into it but I can imagines words like this from recruiting analysts are getting around. This kind if information are not coming from Bruin partisans, but recruiting analysts who are impartial observers in UCLA-Southern Cal rivalry.

GO BRUINS.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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I know the area was definitely a factor when I chose UCLA over USC… Well, that and the fact that I look better in blue/I clicked more with UCLA people/UCLA academics are significantly better than USC…

The first and only time I went to a party near USC, there was a drive-by 2 doors down. Never again.

And parking your car anywhere except for the $50 lots near the Coliseum? Pff, kiss you car and/or any valuables goodbye.

by impaulv on Dec 21, 2008 6:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't always that way by the Crapaseum

I parked on 41st Place or 41st Street south of Santa Barbara (as it was called then) in someone’s front yard. The guy I usually went to reminded me of my dad, just slightly (well, lots) darker. I didn’t hesitate to leave my car there, and felt as secure walking to the Crapaseum as I did later walking from the golf course to the Rose Bowl.

And when I was a real youngster, I went to every Dodger day game on MTA or RTD or whatever the bus line was called then. It was not a particularly big adventure.

Thinkgs have changed a lot.

by Fox 71 on Dec 22, 2008 9:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

All due respect

I think that was before they had electricity in the area, Fox!

Seriously, that area has been a war zone for much of the 20th century and beyond.

by Koach Karl I on Dec 22, 2008 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're wrong, brother

There was electricity for sure. All the hitching posts and livery stables were well lit. All you had to do was to be careful of those new-fangled “horseless carriages” that clogged up the streets.

by Fox 71 on Dec 22, 2008 2:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Curious...

…to hear the LA Times’ “UCLA blogger” Adam Rose’s input on this.

by Ajax on Dec 22, 2008 11:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

It is BAD!

I worked around SC for almost 3 years as a police officer. I can tell you, that school is surrounded by gangs. Not only the black street gangs, but the Hispanic ones. The campus is fairly safe, but the moment you step off the grounds, stand by to get jacked!

I cant speak about the run ins with athletes, but the general student population and the faculty were constant victims. Their cars were always stolen and broken into. A few got carjacked and robbed. Even one of their track athletes was recently shot. It is not a safe place.I will never go to the Mosoleum because I know first hand about the rollin 40’s, fruittown brims and the harpy’s that surround that place.

by PasadenaBruin on Dec 22, 2008 11:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

A film student was killed on SC's campus earlier this year.

He died of a stab wound he received just outside his apartment.

A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden

by MexiBruin on Dec 22, 2008 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Playing devil's advocate a bit...

but what can SC do about the problem? I mean, they can’t move the university… they pump a shitload of money into the neighborhood… The school was there before the downward spiral of the area… I guess the people that go there anyways have to know what they’re getting into, right?

Oh well… I’m just glad UCLA’s surroundings are as awesome as our campus :-)

by impaulv on Dec 22, 2008 4:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing

They have all the money in the world in the trOJan family. Why not move out to where Pepperdine is, or buy up all of Beverly Hills or something like that. Of course, they are probably constrained to stay within the city limits, because they haven’t demonstrated that they own any police department other than the LAPD.

Seriously, if I were counseling those regents or the parole board or whoever it is that runs that place, I would tell them to think in terms of moving their school out of South Central. (That assumes that they would not follow my first recommendation which would be to confess all their sins and fold the school.)

by Fox 71 on Dec 22, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think fleeing the inner city would be a huge disaster for LA

I hate SC alums as much as the next guy, but the school does a lot of good work in that neighborhood.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Dec 23, 2008 8:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Silver -- it scares me, but I've been agreeing with you more, lately.

See my post below.

Even were it possible to pack up and leave, which it is not, it would be a terrible blow to the area and doom it to further degradation and violence.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 23, 2008 9:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with impaulv

sc has a lot of faults, but one cannot fault them for the gangs in the area. sc has no responsibility for the social/economic problems surrounding the school — they are the problems of the larger community.

I know when I was in Law School, many years ago, we had clinical outreach programs.I’m sure they continue, today.

Yes, it is a dangerous place. My car was broken into my very first day of law school.

But, one thing we need to remember. The largest number of victims of gang crime are people who live in the community — not students. As bad as this may be for the students when they step off their island, it is worse for the people who live in the surrounding community.

sc can’t clean this mess up. It’s a problem that needs to be dealt with at the core levels of society — education, jobs, and law enforcement.

It’s fun to hate sc. And, there are many reasons to do so. But, the fact that the campus is surrounded by poverty and the things that spring from it, is not one of them.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 22, 2008 9:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

justsc has institutionalized thinking

justsc’s athletic department mirrors the entire school. The athletic department looks the other way with such vigor that it has a continual cramp in its collective neck. The administration is just the same. Their solution to the crime and the conditions which foster the crime is to build higher walls and to hire more security guards. But what sort of institution is more equipped to do something about those conditions than a university? Must there be crime in South Central LA? justsc the institution apparently says yes, it must be so just as its athletic department says cheating is the norm. I’m not going to let them off any societal hook for not taking some positive steps. We read about Baron Davis in the community. Where is anyone from justsc? The mindset there is revealed on their favorite t-shirt: “My maid went to UCLA.”

I repeat my accusation that justsc is no different from the big plantation house before the civil war. As long as those who live and work around the plantation house don’t interfere with the way things happen inside the house, then everything is good. And that’s crap.

I don’t say that I know how to address the situation, because I don’t. But I recognize institutional myopia when I see it, be it in athletics or more important things. Where is the justsc equivalent of Unicamp? That might not be much, but it’s something, and it’s been at UCLA forever.

I don’t give justsc a pass because “nothing can be done.” Certainly nothing can be done if nobody tries.

End of rant. (And, no, I’m not a liberal running for office. I’m the most conservative guy in this blog. And not being without sin, the stone I’m throwing is aimed at myself as well.)

by Fox 71 on Dec 22, 2008 11:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I hate to defend SC… but I remember reading quite a bit about how much money they are putting forth with after-school programs, workshops, community improvements. They’re doing something… whether it’s the right thing or whether it’s (or anything) is enough, I cannot say. SC isn’t, and cannot, be solely responsible for an area. They can try, but in the end, they almost have no choice but to build those walls and hire those guards… Think of them as Rome (yeah, yeah… I know) and how they built walls and hired mercenaries. It still wasn’t enough to stave off the inevitable. The physical campus of usc is an island in a very bad area. I can’t defend (most) the people that choose to call themselves trojans. But hey, if they were as smart as we are, they wouldn’t be there to begin with… right? :-)

by impaulv on Dec 23, 2008 2:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Brother Geezer -- you are mixing two issues

I don’t disagree with you in your critique of the on campus attitude in the athletic department. The thug mentality comes from within.

But, you are simply wrong about whether the university is reaching out and trying to improve the lot of its neighbors. The law school, the med school and many of the other schools are actively working in the community to make it better. The Western Center on Law and Poverty started when I was in law school and continues, in some form, today. The medical and dental schools have outreach programs.

Way back when I was in law school, there were professors in the Sociology and other departments doing pioneering work on gangs and violence.

And, at the risk of getting flamed here, I’m going to mention the 60 Minutes piece on pc and his work trying to get kids out of gangs and diminish gang violence. I find those efforts impressive and worthwhile. I agree with most, he is a jerk as a coach — but his work with gangs is admirable. Interestingly, no one here has mentioned that piece. I waited and not a word was posted. Yes, we all wanted a piece on the corruption in his football program, but 60 Minutes made clear that the piece was not going to be about football — it was going to be about gangs.

The original post was to simply talk about how the university’s location might be having an impact on player recruitment and retention. I’m sure sc is facing the same deterrent as it tries to improve the quality of its students and faculty.

This situation represents the confluence of many factors — “white flight” from the inner city, over the past 50 years, and the impact that the economic and social problems we face in most inner cities has on the safety of those who live and work there.

Like many inner city campuses in this country, the university has tried to create a safe zone or island. They’ve acquired land surrounding the university, pushed out the original residents, and repopulated it with services and more expensive housing. And, they’ve tried to beef up security. Nationally, that has not worked and there are campuses of very good schools surrounded by gangs and violence.

sc is not creating or furthering these problems.

My complaint is that the thug mentality of the outside is creating and furthering a thug mentality in the athletic department. For that, I blame sc. For the neighborhood’s conditions, I do not.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 23, 2008 8:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The 60 mins piece

66 from what I saw that 60 mins piece … to me came across … as nothing short of a PR piece for Petey … which was conveniently timed for the recruiting season. They shot that piece a while ago but didn’t chose to run it until recently. Yeah, folks will say folks at 60 mins decide when to run their pieces but I also believe the Heritage Hall’s PR staff had a strong role in lobbying 60 mins when to run it. I don’t believe a word coming out of Petey’s mouth or the garbage coming out of his football program.

by Nestor on Dec 23, 2008 9:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

PR

PR it was — though based on things he really does. Does anyone believe that this was the first time he’d been down to those gang meetings and probably the last time? I don’t like pc, but I believe his anti-gang stuff is real.

As to the PR aspect of this, sometimes, I wish our PR department was as astute.

And, don’t forget it is all the more effective because no one has done a piece about the dirty program he runs.

So, if all you know was what you saw in his winning percentage and on 60 Minutes, you’d think he was a great guy and a great coach.

That’s very good PR.

We have so much more to work with, and use it so much less.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 23, 2008 10:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agree with you re our PR department

It’s a huge issue that is not being paid enough attention to.

by Nestor on Dec 23, 2008 10:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, you're supposed to be on vacation!

I’m in Northern CA with my brother, freezing and wet. Wonderful, when compared to Houston.

I’m not surprised to find you here. I’m on “vacation” — but working. So, I glance off, often, Geezer ADR, and can’t help posting.

Best to you and your family.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 23, 2008 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Back at you 66

Just enjoying the internets on a leisurely morning over coffee and late brunch!

by Nestor on Dec 23, 2008 10:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I refused to watch

Carroll may do great things with his anti-gang work. If so, I applaud those efforts.

But he runs a dirty program and he is also an egomaniac. Part of me wonders whether he only does this charitable work so he can show off what a great guy he is. True charity doesn’t need to be advertised.

He can continue working to get kids out of gangs, etc., and that is a good thing (even if it is ego-driven).

But I have no desire to watch his big ego at work.

by Barnes2JJ on Dec 23, 2008 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They can't do anything about it

much like Wisconsin can’t so anything about their frigid weather, or Texas Tech can’t do anything about being in the middle of nowhere, yet I think the point of the post is that while disadvantages at other schools are widely known, you conveniently never seem to hear about this problem with SUC. Ol Petey is taking his recruits down to Hermosa Beach, or bringing in Hollywood comedians/rappers to hang out with his players; it probably never is mentioned that SUC sits smack dab in the middle of one of the most violent, most socially disenfranchised communities in the entire country.

A couple of articles mention some “run ins” with players, yet, on a much more serious level, I can remember an SC player actually getting shot from a stray bullet while at practice sometime in the mid 90s. I’m sure that never gets brought up during recruiting visits, either.

by godblesstyus95 on Dec 23, 2008 8:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That is the point

They cannot do anything about it.

That is just another item in the very long list as to why SC sucks.

by Ajax on Dec 23, 2008 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

It is an advantage that UCLA is in such a great neighborhood though in recruiting. But if we rag on how SC is in such a terrible neighborhood then we could almost be seen as rooting for the status quo to be kept as such … That’d be unacceptable. But it certainly is to our advantage the way things are now — I avoid going down to SC at all costs, even though my curiosity about the galen center will bring me to that game this year when we spank them around over there.

by royobruin on Dec 22, 2008 9:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Correct me if I am wrong

but has anyone ever seen The Humanitarian involved with the reversal of the “status quo” by helping out the surrounding community of South Central? I didn’t watch the 60 minutes piece….was that brought up? Seriously, does anyone know of anything?

(Bringing OJ to practice doesn’t count)

by godblesstyus95 on Dec 23, 2008 8:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See my post above about pc and the surrounding situation

pc, according to the 60 minutes piece, is actively engaged in trying to diminish gang violence and membership.

I dislike pc the coach, but pc the gang fighter has gained my respect.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 23, 2008 8:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm awaiting the Times expose

I am sure it will be on the front page of the sports section, just like Baron Davis’ sisters’ chevy tahoe.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Dec 23, 2008 8:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bottom Line for Me

My daughter cannot go to sc — she’s known that since she could understand what we were saying to her.

But, as much as I’d hate it and worry every day she was away, I’d let her go to an inner city, surrounded by danger, school like Columbia. Jenny has been blessed to grow up in the Palisades and, now, Houston. Although she has gone to schools integrated by race, she has not gone to a school integrated by class.

I think the largest problems/divisions in our society are those of class — not race. And, going to a school like Columbia or sc makes one confront those problems. (It’s been a long time, more than 20 years since I’ve spent any time at the University of Chicago, but for a time, that surrounding neighborhood was very rough, too. That’s why one of this nation’s true heroes, Saul Alinsky, worked so hard in that area. The last time I was in Chicago, visiting a friend and an ex-student — both of whom taught in the law school — the University had strong outreach programs to the community.

Jen really wants to go to UCLA. Second choice? UCSB. Her education at either would be superb. But, I have to recognize that it would be superb — and different in a significant dimension, were she to attend a great inner-city university (not sc).

sjh

by Class of 66 on Dec 23, 2008 9:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Cheatey Petey

I did not watch the “60 Minutes” episode with pc but, I have a feeling that how pc is trying to help gangs in PHONY!!!! I agree with Nestor and Barnes. Maybe being in that part of the city is the reason THUG U gets so many thugs to attend and play football for their school!! Maybe Petey helps the gangs so he can recruit them when they get ready to attend college!

by Forever a Bruin on Dec 23, 2008 4:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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