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Around SBN: Will Rhymes 'Fine' After Being Hit By Pitch And Fainting

Roll and Shipp...My Two Cents

Bumped. GO BRUINS. -N

Obviously as Nestor recently noted, this is one of those good problems: a struggling senior leader with the potential to be a major catalyst vs. a pure shooter who is currently developing an above average all around game (albeit against lesser competition).  Here's my question... Does it really have to be Roll vs. Shipp?  What about Roll AND Shipp? We are currently seeing very little production from the 4, and this could be Howland's chance to really get this team playing toward its strengths.  Kevin Love is not walking through the door.  By that I mean the strength of this team and the potential of this team are not going to be realized through the post.  We have to accept that this year's Bruins are going to win on defense (duh) and consistent perimeter shooting.  Aboya has exceeded my expectations as a serviceable big man, with Gordon coming on as a more than competent backup.  So at least we have that.

Plus, look at the Pac 10 this year.  There isn't a team out there that relies on two big men (6-8+) on the court all or even most of the time.  I'm not sure if we need to limit ourselves to a traditional lineup defensively, especially in creating offensive match-up nightmares for other squads.  I'm not saying we need to eliminate Keefe and Drago's minutes, but I am saying Roll's minutes don't need to come from Shipp and vice versa.  With Roll coming on as hot shooter, it clearly opens things up for other offensive weapons.  And when you think of UCLA's offensive weapons Keefe and Drago are not names that come to mind.  Drago has shown potential, but noticeably has not improved as a scoring threat despite the weak competition.  Who can say that he will emerge as one against a tougher Pac 10 schedule (and then the tournament)?  Roll has certainly played himself into the lineup, but has Shipp played himself out?  I can't say that he would be any less of a defensive liability than Drago at the 4, and not considerably weaker than Keefe.  He is strong and has decent size.  Roll has become one of our better team defenders.  If the defensive matchup isn't there, we can go back to the traditional lineup.  The point is, we can be flexible.

The problem with playing a small lineup however is going to be rebounding.  But the rebounds we are getting out of Keefe and Drago (about 8 per game) I believe wouldn't be completely lost if we just limit their minutes, not eliminate them.  Shipp playing 15 like Tracy Pierson suggests is too few in my opinion.  When he's healthy, he needs to start.  But why not bring Roll off the bench for Keefe, rather than Drago.  And then rotate Drago in for Shipp when he needs a break.  This way we can keep our shooters legs fresh, and we all know what tired legs can mean down the stretch of a close game.  It really could be the difference in a game, and I would want Roll and Shipp taking that shot before Drago and Keefe anyday.  For some reason I have more faith in Shipp than Drago despite the shooting slump.  I can't say why, but at least he can put the ball on the floor and kick it if necessary.

Even thinking about the tournament, this kind of lineup doesn't have to be the be all end all.  If we need the size, increase Keefe's minutes (maybe even throw Gordon out there with Aboya... imagine those two ripping down boards and getting the ball out to DC and JH with Roll or Shipp on the wing ready to spot up).  The thing about this Roll/Shipp pseudo-controversy is that it opens up the possibilities we have with our lineups and match-ups.  If Roll can sustain any sort of production, this team doesn't need Drago as much as it should or thought it would.  Shipp's midrange game is far too valuable to sacrifice for Drago's inconsistency and Keefe's offensive deficiencies.  And Roll as a spot up shooter cannot be undervalued either.  In the end, I feel that we need to play to our strengths on offense and understand their limits on defense to know when not to play those two at the same time (Roll and Shipp).

Just some thoughts.  Debate is welcomed and encouraged.  And of course, this is all fan speculation, but think about it...DC, JH, JS, MR, AA/DG at least at some point during a game could give us an added scoring threat that is invaluable to a team that certainly lacks depth in terms of scorers.  Haven't been this excited to see a non-conference cupcake at Pauley in while.  In Howland We Trust. GO BRUINS!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

Comment 15 comments  |  8 recs  | 

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I like what I'm hearing...

…and you certainly raise some interesting points MDJ4. I’ll give it some real thought and drop my two cents when the holiday whirlwind dies down.

Great post. Keep it up.

by Bellerophon on Dec 25, 2008 10:54 PM PST reply actions  

the key

The key this year is that we have a lot of perimeter depth, and our freshmen are obviously very talented and getting better. Sure, we still have defensive lapses, but the last few games I’ve seen a huge improvement in our firepower. I like the ideas suggested though, as we have plenty of depth this year to really mix and match lineups to play against other team’s weaknesses and to play our strengths

by blinkshot on Dec 26, 2008 12:29 AM PST reply actions  

Shipp and Roll

Sounds like an offensive maneuver to me. I’d love to see four good shooters start, and if one gets cold or the rebounding falters, bring in JK or Drago. For better or worse, though, this is what Duke has been doing the past few years that has played them very quickly out of the NCAAs. First Reddick’s arm went limp, then ditto for just about the whole team. Now their post is pretty much owned by Singler, not a big guy at all, and everyone else shoots or drives and passes. We won’t know what it is till late February, but we need to have a team on the floor in March that can do it all. That we have too many players this year who can do that may be a good thing, and we all know CBH will have them at their best by then.

by Herodotus on Dec 26, 2008 8:25 AM PST reply actions  

Yo! What about BoBo?

I agree with what you are saying. Although I think Josh would be more effective driving to the rack. I’d like to see Malcom Lee play more because of his energy. I really think BoBo needs more minutes to develope into a player who can contribute this year. His size alone it going to make a difference in clogging up the middle for opponents.

by bruin75 on Dec 26, 2008 11:38 AM PST reply actions  

BoBo

will need to get in game shape before getting more mins. Its an issue we have discussed a lot on BN (not hard to look it up).

by Nestor on Dec 26, 2008 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree

Bobo is waaaay too slow on his defensive rotations. Easily our biggest defensive liability. He can’t block shots if he’s not in the right position.

by mdjohns4 on Dec 26, 2008 12:01 PM PST up reply actions  

He definitely has some moves

In the brief appearances I have seen him this year, he has shown flashes of his low post moves. But the kid has been huffin and puffin a bit while running the floor and we all know what kind of game shape a player has to be in to play Ben Ball defense. JM will get there. It will take some time and patience on everyone’s part.

by Nestor on Dec 26, 2008 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

rec'd!

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 26, 2008 12:17 PM PST reply actions  

yep

this is the kind of post that button was created for.

by Nestor on Dec 26, 2008 12:18 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

rec'd!

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 26, 2008 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

How about Drew Gordon

In my opinion, Drew Gordon is our best forward. Sure, Roll has a couple of good games, but can he be consistent? Same with Josh Shipp. So far Gordon has shown me he is a complete player. With a little more time, he’ll be better than both Shipp and Roll. I am worry about the size if we puy in both Shipp and Roll, espeacially when we play against the big boys, we need all the advantage we can get.

by NNL on Dec 26, 2008 1:15 PM PST reply actions  

Gordon is far from a complete player

He’s an amazing athlete and has limitless potential, but he’s far from a complete player. He lack anything that resembles a jump shot and rushes himself under the basket. He’s also a little unsure of where players are supposed to be on the offensive end so he struggles passing the ball at times. Give Gordon another year and he can be a a real force all over the floor, but right now he’s just a shot blocker, rebounder and someone who runs the floor well. He’s good for 15 minutes a game, but no more at this time.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 26, 2008 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Gordon's role

Gordon is extremely raw offensively. His hook shot from the post is not even up to Aboya’s level. However, he is quicker off the floor and a superior rebounder. The dunks look impressive, but again the competition has been weak, specifically the big men from these past few teams are far below the Pac 10 average. Taj Gibson will give us enormous problems, just as he has in the past. Gordon is not ready to compete for 25 minutes against Gibson or Brockman. Rye is spot on. 15-18 minutes per game. More than that and we will be prone to stretches of offensive incompetence through the post. I actually like Aboya’s quick jump hook when we feed the post. At this point, Gordon is a boost in energy and rebounding, not much more.

by mdjohns4 on Dec 26, 2008 3:47 PM PST up reply actions  

More on "playing with the big boys"

Who are the big boys? USC plays Taj (6’9’’) and Leonard Washington (6’7’’). Oregon has Dunigan (6’10’’) and Catron (6’6’’). ASU has Pendergraph (6’10’’). Arizona has Budinger??? (6’7’’) and Hill (6’10’’). UW has Brockman (6’7’’) and Bryan-Amaning (6’9’’). Baynes for WSU is 6’10’’. These are the guys getting significant minutes like Aboya, Keefe, Drago, and Gordon. Except those teams aren’t four deep at those positions!!!

Our toughest matchup might just be Stanford who starts three guys over 6’7’’ but not one over 6’8’’. Also they have no depth past their first 5, maybe 6. Budinger as a “big” is not the case either. Usually, each team has no more size than we do on the floor when he throw Aboya and Keefe/Drago/Gordon on the floor. And that’s not even a big lineup. Rebounding from the other positions is going to be key, but Holiday, Roll, and Shipp are big enough or athletic enough to get boards. Let’s not forget Roll is 6’4’’/6’5’’.

The point being, everyone is playing small. We don’t have to play big. NNL, I think you’re thinking about the Pac 10 from a different year. This isn’t the conference of big boys. I don’t think we can afford not to play Roll and Shipp at the same time given the circumstances of our conference. Only the best teams in the country (UNC and UConn) are playing deep at the 4 and 5. Everyone else is equally thin. Why not go smaller then?

by mdjohns4 on Dec 26, 2008 4:08 PM PST reply actions  

Move I'd like to see

If Aboya gets in foul trouble, how about moving Keefe to the 5 and bringing in Gordon to play the 4? Keefe is more experienced at the hedge on D, and it would free up Gordon to focus on crashing the boards, where he excels.

As for Roll, I’d like to see him at the 2 and 3 with the minutes coming from Drag and maybe a few from the Frosh guards. Until he cools off, he has earned starter like minutes, even if it is from off the bench.

by Free the 16 on Dec 27, 2008 6:34 PM PST reply actions  

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