Those "Young" TrOJans

by Nestor on Feb 19, 2008 5:05 AM PST in Basketball Comment 29 comments

I am not going to spend any more time on the gap closers after this post (unless we see them again down the line). But I had to make one more point putting a ridiculous meme of "young" Trojies to rest before moving on from Sunday. One of the main excuses for TroJies from Sunday night (emphasis added):

At least the Trojans had a decent excuse. This is a young team, prone to inconsistencies and mistakes anyway. They figured to wear down, with coach Tim Floyd making four of them play all 40 minutes.

A "young" team? Uh hum.

If you think the reporter was coming up with that excuse on his own, think again. From Ben Bolch, the Trojie beat "reporter" from the LAT after they pulled of their win at Pauley (and remember we didn’t make any excuses for that loss even though we played without Luc and Mata-Real for the entire second half, and of course without Mike Roll):

USC's young lineup had experienced growing pains, as evidenced by six losses, but everything clicked in Saturday's upset of UCLA.

Few weeks later Mr. TO himself used the "young" line:

"We're really trying to get better as a team," Mayo said. "We know we're a young team. We're not going to be a perfect team every night, but we're sure going to try."

I mean listening to these guys you’d get the idea that our Ben Ball warriors were taking on bunch of 18-19 year old young, Trojan puppies at Pauley West. But then I decided to go through the official websites of both Southern Cal and UCLA and check out the birthdays of the starters from each team.

And this is what I found the age breakdown for the starters from Sunday night:

Age	Class	UCLA	JustSC	Class	Age
20.50	Jr.	Darren Collison	Angelo Johnson	So.	19.67
19.25	So.	Russell Westboook	OJ Mayo	Fr.	20.25
22.00	Jr.*	Josh Shipp	Dwight Lewis	So.	20.33
21.42	Jr.	Luc Richard M’Bah A Moute	Davon Jefferson	Fr.	21.25
19.42	Fr.	Kevin Love	Taj Gibson	So.	22.67
20.52	-	Avg.	Avg.	-	20.83

I added * mark in Shipp’s column because he got a medical redshirt because of his hip surgeries.

So tell me again which was the "young" team on Sunday night? Yeah I get that our starters have more game experience because you know they did the right the right way: go through high school in four years and then attend a legit four year college athletics program. But its ridiculous to somehow imply that the TrOJies were at some kind of disadvantage because they were a "young" bunch.

Its especially absurd considering on the other side we have Mr. TO, a 20 year old freshman who was getting clowned by a super sophomore who was a year younger in age.

Then of course you have Taj Gibson, a 23 year old "sophomore", and Devon Jefferson, a 21 year old "freshman," players who sound lot more like mercenaries (playing like thugs) than young lower classmen in a legitimate college. And its not like these guys all on a sudden picked up a basketball and started playing. They have been playing organized hoops most of their lives until getting to Timmeh's program either in their AAU program or whatever "high school program" they were part of before getting to "college".

If they are talking about experience in terms of being ahead in the classroom then yeah sure its not even close. After all Luc is proficient in three languages, while his counterpart Davon, who is only 2 months younger (but 2 light years behind in class level) cannot construct a single sentence in English.

Only in the clueless world of Southern California’s traditional media Timmeh’s mercenaries are looked as "young" basketball players so that they can come up with an excuse when their dumb, baseless narrative of Southern Cal emerging as a credible threat to UCLA’s basketball program, doesn't come into fruition.

GO BRUINS.

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wow

thats really funny..i didn't even realize russ was younger than no-j and that taj was so damn old

O.A.

by Ollie on Feb 19, 2008 1:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Is there anyway to send that table via email?

You should send that to Dohn, Bolch, and so on.

Or I could ...

Go Bruins

by Achilles on Feb 19, 2008 1:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

A

If anyone is interested they can send those guys the permalink to this post: http://www.bruinsnation.com/story/2008/2/19/8521/10804

I took the info. directly from the official roster on both sites. Unless of course some sneaky TrOJie changes up the info at Heritage Hall, I calculated their ages based on their DOBs as posted on their official site last night.

by Nestor on Feb 19, 2008 4:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You need to read a little closer

Nestor did in fact give credit, saying that sure they are talking about college experience, but it does not negate the point. These trojan athletes have been playing ball just as long (if not longer) as their Bruin counterparts, and are in many cases further along in developing their bodies physically due to age.

For people to represent them as young, fails to recognize this fact. And more to the point, this shows that the kind of player at SC is more athlete than student-athlete. Aside from Mormon missions, what other positive explanation is there for a 21 year old freshman?

by isodore on Feb 19, 2008 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Reading

Obviously is not detrojan's strong suit.

by Nestor on Feb 19, 2008 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nor is

Writing. Nor Thinking. Nor presumably Talking. One wonders why trOJans even bother expressing any ideas at all since those ideas are inevitably crappy ones and to make matters worse they are not articulated at all.

by Tydides on Feb 19, 2008 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hate to admit it

but he has a point to this. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a total joke that their ENTIRE team is 1-2 years older than a normal student in their respective grade (don't forget Hackett who is a 20 year old sophomore AFTER having graduated high school a year early) but the term "young" is clearly meant to refer to years of college experience. I also think that the fact that they are all so much older than their counterparts makes them even "younger" in the sense that they lack a lot of maturity based on the simple fact that they couldn't even get to college on time. There are players like this on every team, even our very own Alfred Aboya is 23 years old, but the fact that this is their whole starting lineups shows just how desperate Tim Floyd has become.

by turs12 on Feb 19, 2008 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

trOJans, shortsighted as usual

It is disingenuous to label SUC as a young team and use it as an excuse for their poor play when it is technically and literally untrue. Some of the thugs across town had 6 frickin years of high school and AAU ball before coming to college to play. They've played in far more games than the typical freshman. Seeing as how you're throwing the tired and pathetic injury excuse in there too, it appears all you're here for is a little bit of rationalization of what is just an overall poor reflection on SUC in general. If you can't win and go better than .500 in conference with paid and aged help then when can you win?

And please, don't embarrass yourself any further with academic type smack about reading deeper than face value. We all saw what kind of geniuses SUC turns out with Davon "They was who we thought they was" Jefferson. It's just a bunch of retards (yourself included) drooling into a cup coming out of South Central.

by Tydides on Feb 19, 2008 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's right about the wearing down part tho

I don't care who's injured, how the heck do you ask four guys to play 40 minutes in a game that physical? That is just atrocious coaching by Tim Floyd to neither a) find time close to the earlier TV timeout situations (16:00, 12:00, 8:00) to steal some minutes of rest for worn down players or b) have developed anyone on his bench that he doesn't even trust them to play maybe four or five possessions in a half.

Look at our own situation at UCLA- obviously Dragovic, Keefe, and Stanback aren't guys you want to see out on the court at the same time (unless we're up 30), but when injuries or fouls have required we go deeper on a bench, Howland has gone ahead and pulled the trigger to sub them intermittently into the game. Heck, we probably would have lost to Oregon if Dragovic hadn't been on the court.

In the last five minutes of the UCLA/USC game, the Trojans were all on empty, which I'm sure contributed to their turnovers and poor shooting (our defense being the other major factor). That's all Floyd's fault. He let his team down.

by insomniacslounge on Feb 19, 2008 1:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nice job Nestor

I've been wanting to look into the actual ages of Southern Cal's "youngsters" for a while.

Maybe if Duh'von would have been able to gain admission to UNLV, where he originally signed, he'd only be a 20 year old freshman. Apparently he couldn't pass those rigorous academic standards imposed on UNLV athletes--walking and chewing gum at the same time.

I'm sick of hearing the youth excuse everytime the gap closers lose or make a mistake.

by Ajax on Feb 19, 2008 1:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Anyone notice how NO Pucin articles...

...were in the Times today or yesterday?

Instead, the stories covering the game were either by Bolch or by LAT's general college hoops writer, Robyn Norwood, who I would prefer to have on the UCLA beat over Pucin.

It's an old "non-story," but one I want to repeat -- we're one of the Top 6 teams in the country, looking to go to our 3rd consecutive Final 4, playing our cross-town rivals... and the paper of record for this town would rather have the $C beat writer covering the story?

Whatever.

Looks like Pucin is back to her "no stories on mondays and Tuesdays" schedule again.

"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008

by Meriones on Feb 19, 2008 2:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Great work, Nestor

A quick glance at this chart reveals that all of UCLA's starters graduated high school at the typical age of 17 or 18. Three of the five JustSC players were at least two years older than the norm, and Taj Gibson could have legally thrown a kegger on prom night! Timmeh make Cheatie Petey look like a choir boy.

by TfXc79 on Feb 19, 2008 3:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

SuC players are running out of excuses ...

and so are their media supporters. They should own up to their immaturity and lack of class, and come right out and say they will never be able to measure up to their cross town rival in integrity, character, & prowess on & off the court. The "young" argument doesn't pass my Blue&Gold litmus laugh test.

I didn't know NO.J. was so old, as is the rest of the team. Are they all on the 7 year undergraduate plan????

by LoyalAlum94 on Feb 19, 2008 3:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of excuses

"...after they pulled of their win at Pauley (and remember we didn't make any excuses for that loss even though we played without Luc and Mata-Real for the entire second half, and of course without Mike Roll)"

I guess the education you get at UCLA helps you understand how that is not an excuse. Wait a second...that is an excuse! Typical delusional Bruins!

by abney51 on Feb 19, 2008 3:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Come strong or don't come at all

Those are the kinds of things that were left on the shelf when we lost at Pauley because we recognized that we had a sizeable lead late in the game and let it slip away, so complaining about being undermanned would ring hollow since our remaining players were obviously game enough to take the lead on the SUCsters. But now after DuhVon Jefferson's "No Excuses" proclamation preceding this game, suddenly the trOJan faithful have a convenient case of amnesia, and are throwing out every excuse in the book to try and neutralize the fact that they got brutalized in their own gym. I especially love how the excuses that you losers are using: Youth and Injuries, don't fly considering that we are literally younger than your team and we have sustained far more injuries to key players this season than you have and still remain at the top of the conference.

I'll bet you went to the same class as DuhVon "They was" Jefferson when you developed your reasoning "skills". Typical ignorant trOJan doofus. Come stronger than that next time or don't bother posting at all.

by Tydides on Feb 19, 2008 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Too funny

Read carefully again. Note I specifically said we didn't make any excuses for that loss.' Just scroll back and read all the main page posts here on BN following that loss. After that loss we reflected on how we had to play better and get more focused in our efforts. Not only we didn't use Luc's injury as an excuse, we also criticized him for not bringing it in the first half. Unlike the Trojan lapdogs in LA's media, we were honest about our lack of effort that day. In other words we didn't make any excuses.

You sound like a typical Trojan who lacks basic reading comprehension skills.

by Nestor on Feb 19, 2008 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Education truly makes a difference abney51

Look how brilliant your SuC b-ball team is:

Grade Check, Part II
By Scott Wolf on January 17, 2008 12:53 PM

The basketball team's fall semsester grade-point average was 2.37, nearly identical to the football team. It was down from last fall's 2.70 GPA.

http://www.insidesocal.com/usc/archives/2008/01/grade-check-par.html

{ahem} Your SuC team is older but NOT wiser.

by LoyalAlum94 on Feb 19, 2008 3:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

2.37?

With Senora Ross on the payroll? Wow, so the equivalent GPA at a REAL University like UCLA would be what, 1.0? Less?

by Tydides on Feb 19, 2008 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Adjusted GPAs

LOL! The GPAs speak for themselves.

Our Bruins averaged 3.15 in Fall 2007. Most impressive. So proud of our team!

"Age is no guarantee of maturity." -- Lawana Blackwell, The Courtship of the Vicar's Daughter, 1998

by LoyalAlum94 on Feb 19, 2008 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You know it's a worthy topic

When you get butthurt trOJans on here desperately trying to defend the indefensible. They can't handle the fact that the narrative being fed to them by the MSM is a straight up lie and that the Bruins are actually the younger team of the two. They needed that to hold onto to make themselves feel better about blacking themselves out on Sunday and now the baby has had its bottle taken away and abney and detrOJan are throwing typical trOJan tantrums as expected.

The delicious part of this entire thing is that we are right and they are wrong. Now, trOJans don't even have the mental capacity to make a convincing argument when the truth IS on their side. Imagine the trainwreck that occurs when they DON'T have the truth on their side. Oh wait, I don't have to imagine it. Abney and detrOJan illustrated it perfectly. This is high comedy. I love seeing these two mental midgets squirm.

by Tydides on Feb 19, 2008 3:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Remember who you're talking to.

Remember the education that is dished out across town dictates things like being unable to realize that age 20.83 is older than age 20.52.

And have a little charity. Can you blame any trOJan for wanting to hang out with Bruins? I don't blame this guy at all. What does he have to look forward to in life if Daddy suddenly gets indicted or something.

All kidding aside, I really pity those pathetic losers. Destined to be a trOJan forever. That's horrible.

by Fox 71 on Feb 19, 2008 3:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs