AP Cheap Shot
by dustball on Mar 17, 2008 2:55 PM PDT
14 comments
According to the AP in a report published on ESPN.com:
A report released Monday found 86 percent of Tar Heels men's players earned diplomas during a six-year period. The other top seeds were far worse: 45 percent at Kansas and 40 percent at UCLA and Memphis.
The study was conducted by Richard Lapchick, head of the University of Central Florida's Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport. It evaluated four different freshman classes for a period beginning in 1997-98 and ending with 2000-01. Though the players evaluated are no longer on campus, the report intends to provide a snapshot of academic trends.
Are they serious? Only Roy Williams was coaching any of these teams during this period and he was coaching Kansas, not UNC. The lavin program was a joke on all fronts, and since then we have seen almost everyone graduate. That said, why would an elite program be expected to keep players all 4 years? The University has an obligation to prepare its students for their future career and life. If that preparation is met in 1 or 2 years, then why would they stay? Darren is clearly ready to take the next step and he shouldn't be concerned with how it reflects on the university when he leaves.
This isn't football. There aren't 105 players on a D1 basketball team like there may be on a football team (rule 17.11). If you are an elite program 2 or 3 players may jump early every year in basketball. With class size being only 4 or 5 at the most you'll have a hard time keeping graduation rates up. Conversely, if you are an elite football program with 4 or 5 players leaving early each year you have classes of 25+ to keep graduation rates up.
Our academics standards are as high as any in the country and yet we have only had one player leave early from back to back final 4 teams. Remember that Afflalo graduated in 3 years.
This is not news, nor is it responsible reporting given the antiquated nature of the study. What do you guys think?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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It's a totallty screwball measurement
At least, that's what the post-secondary educational system is selling these days - otherwise, college tuition wouldn't be so ridiculously expensive. You can argue with this statement on a theoretical level all you want (ie, "The goal of college is to broaden your horizons and experience new things"), but the fact is, if the larger world actually bought this argument, this experience wouldn't be costing upwards of $200K a pop in some cases.
So somehow, the NCAA is telling us that the kid who just drops out of school versus - say, oh, LeBron James or Carmelo Anthony - are the same. Whatever. Newsflash: Bill Gates didn't graduate from college. I heard he made out alright.
What would be a better measure would be to strip out all the players who declared and were signed in the NBA draft, then measure graduation rates of those kids who didn't make it to the next level. That's a much more accurate assessment.
If the NCAA wants to keep fooling itself in to thinking that college basketball is nothing but the minor leagues for the NBA at major schools, fine - let them. But they're not fooling anyone else.
by CAJason80 on Mar 17, 2008 3:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget...
M
by Meriones on Mar 17, 2008 3:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think it is fair game.
You are right that these statistics can be skewed by players leaving early, however, even so, I think it would still be ok to mention or to let readers draw the inference that a school may be taking sports more seriously than academics. I.E. - if a school recruits a player who it knows is going to the NBA in a year, I think its ok to hold that against the school in terms of graduation rates (though the reporter should mention what happened and let the reader determine for himself if that is a bad or good thing.)
In any case, our figures will be better off soon with Howland at the helm.
by rfirpo on Mar 17, 2008 3:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A Different Perspective
I think there is a big difference between a student/athlete who goes to class and takes school seriously -- and then leaves for the NBA and one who knows he is leaving, spends a year or two, and leaves -- not eligible to stay or come back.
I have no problem with a player who does well in school and decides to leave.
I have a big problem with a player who simply plays basketball, blows off classes, and then leaves.
From what I understand, and it is hearsay, Brook Lopez was inegible for the early games because he was not taking school serioiusly. His brother was. If they both leave, I hope they both leave with grade point averages that show they honored the education Stanford offered them.
And, I am very proud that from what I've been told, LMR, RW, DC and KL were good students. I know Kevin honored the classroom -- he's talked about it several times in interviews.
Said another way, I think the study mentioned in this post took the wrong perspective. It's not how long an athlete or other student stays in school -- its how hard he works, on the academic side, before leaving.
by Class of 66 on Mar 17, 2008 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a thought on Brian Morrison......
by Bruin in Denver on Mar 17, 2008 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Does this even count
by jlegs on Mar 17, 2008 6:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
AA
But that's why this doesn't matter. Let's assume AA didn't finish school, but now he's a 22 year old making a million+ annually due to the training he received in college and also was in good standing academically when he left.
No, this needs to factor in transfers & early exits due to the NBA. Knocking down an academic institution for having an excellent basketball program isn't just dumb, it's bad reporting. On the same token, I don't fault Memphis or Kansas based on these statistics either. Maybe a better statistic using some good reporting would actually point us to some decent trends, but this is pure crap.
by sfatoo on Mar 17, 2008 8:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It just seems so bizarre
by OverflowingPassionBucket on Mar 17, 2008 9:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A logical explanation
by snorkeldorf on Mar 18, 2008 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key is the years
- Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Shammond Williams. None were freshman, so none are in the sample.
- None.
- None.
- Brendan Haywood, Joseph Forte. Both entered the school in the period studied. Haywood was a senior, and graduated (according to his Wikipedia entry). Forte was a sophomore.
- None.
- None.
- None.
by jaffa on Mar 18, 2008 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That formatted poorly.
by jaffa on Mar 18, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good catch, Jaffa
by Fox 71 on Mar 18, 2008 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
7 walk ons
by dustball on Mar 18, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another Team
by turs12 on Mar 18, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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