Culture Change & Concern Trolling

by Nestor on Apr 16, 2008 5:47 PM PDT in Football Comment 31 comments

If the early returns from the current online poll are any indication, it looks the overwhelming sentiment here is not to approve of the seniors decision to organize yesterday’s ditch day at practice. Norm Chow didn't mince words and went straight to the point:

"Traditions," first-year offensive coordinator Norm Chow mumbled as he was leaving the Acosta Center. "They have so many traditions around here, all those national championships."

Ouch. How do the players respond to that?

The majority sentiment on BN is in line with what Chow was mumbling. And David Woods from the Daily Bruin also echoed the same sentiment as he blasted the players today (emphasis added):

The offensive line is currently a cobbled-together mess of essentially spare parts: a converted defensive tackle, a converted tight end and a walk-on figure prominently in the current two-deep, and that’s just what I came up with from two seconds of thought. To put it bluntly, the unit needs work if it’s going to be able to keep quarterback Pat Cowan from truly becoming a modern day marvel of scar tissue.

It all reeks of an uncaring attitude. I can understand that football practice is hard, but that’s why I don’t play football (along with the fact that I have no discernible athletic talent, although I did once coach a group of second-graders to a youth basketball championship). In normal years, ditching one practice in the spring is probably not going to have too significant an impact.

If you’ve got the same offense and the same defense year after year, then one missed practice is probably not going to do that much harm. But this team lost most of its experience and all but three coaches from last year.

Every team in Division I gets a limited number of formal practices before the season starts. Yeah, there are informal sessions that the players are "encouraged" to attend, but spring practice and August practice are the only two times that the team practices in pads and in actual game situations.

Given all the new players, all the new coaches, the new offense and the general feel that every starting spot on the team save the defensive tackle spots and the middle linebacker spot is up for grabs – I don’t know, I guess it would seem prudent for the players to not ditch practice and actually focus on becoming better at football. That is, for the most part, why they have scholarships.

We have had our share of disagreements with David in the past. However, on this story David seems to have hit the right note.

But let's not all get too carried away ...

Predictably some outsiders – the usual suspects (RN haters) – are taking this story (which in the grand scheme of things is not that big of a deal) to get off their potshots at RN. They are advancing the perception of how he might not be in control of this program, so they can fit that into their neat little narrative based on what allegedly took place in Boulder and Seattle. Uh yeah whatever.

The sky is not falling. Those concern trolls are forgetting how it took more than a year for someone like Coach Howland who has now an established reputation for being a total disciplinarian and a control freak, more than year to take control over our basketball program. Do people remember how Coach Howland had to deal with Lavin’s left over in his first year, most of whom had no clue what it meant to "bring it" in Howland’s practice every day? Lot of those guys quit on Howland his first season, which resulted in a disastrous 11 win season. Eventually Coach Howland was able rebuild the foundation of that program based on his ideals and vision by working with the upperclassmen who bought into his vision (such as Dijon, Ced, Ryan) and blending them with his own recruits.

We think CRN is on the right track just like Howland. To CRN’s credit he is doing what he can to make the seniors feel a part of his efforts to bring back UCLA football. Obviously it will take a while for his message and his vision/ideals of our program to get instilled in all the players. But given what we have heard from CRN in last few months and the coaching staff he has been able to put together, we feel good that eventually the same culture change will take place in the world of UCLA football, just like it methodically happened under Howland in hoops.

So I am sure by now the players have gotten the message and hopefully use it to adjust their mindset to close out the spring camp with a strong finish and come back all fired up for the Fall.

GO BRUINS.

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I do not blame Neu

I blame the culture that Karl created (or perhaps perpetuated) and the players. Pretty disappointing. I urge everyone who is going to the Rose Bowl on the 26th to make their feelings known to the players when they allow fans onto the field for photos.

by bruin8uclap on Apr 16, 2008 6:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Disagree bruin8clap

I am pretty sure our seniors know by now we weren't all that excited to hear about this "tradition." They got the message.

I would urge everyone to be a positive on the 26th and foster a supportive environment. As I said in the bigger scheme of things, this will not matter much. But the response from last 24 hours should be a lesson for our players that we don't have a lot of patience for continuing this kind of "tradition" that symbolizes a culture of mediocrity as evidenced in lack of accomplished in almost a decade.

by Nestor on Apr 16, 2008 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair Enough

this was my instinctive reaction upon hearing about this. It is just so disgusting, but I really hope that by the time of the Spring Scrimmage they will have gotten the message already. Anyhoo, I was going to make my feelings known by NOT getting my picture with them! That would show them!

by bruin8uclap on Apr 16, 2008 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

disgusting?

not really, more so disappointing leadership and thinking on the seniors' part. We do have to remember these are 18, 19, 20, 23(Olson) year old players where they still need to be coached and told right and wrong with certain things. They're going to make mistakes but need to learn from them. Disgusting is what the guys across town usually do.

by bruin95 on Apr 16, 2008 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ya, Chow

I wouldn't think master Yoda would be too impressed with that ditch or too happy. "We thinks we need more practice." Neu will change this culture of mediocrity real soon, maybe starting with some extra wind sprints?

by bruin95 on Apr 16, 2008 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I find this whole situation interesting

This is the first time I've even heard of this "tradition". Dohn said Dorrell had planned his practices around it. But once again, this is the first time we've heard about it from the media, at least that I remember. Why wasn't this addressed before? Why wasn't Dorrell's and Toledo's and Donahue's discipline called into question for allowing this "tradition" to endure? Perhaps I missed the media talking about this in the past, or perhaps RN did not remember this tradition that he supposedly took part in and did not plan around it. Overall, I think in the long run we will be fine, but the bottom line is we lost a day of valuable work that we can't get back. Thats unfortunate, but not terrible. Our Oline will be young this year, not doubt about it. I think RN has us on the right track, and our boys will make us proud this fall and into the future.

GO BRUINS!!!

by moutekicksboute on Apr 16, 2008 6:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Toledo halted this

Dorrell restarted it.

by Nestor on Apr 16, 2008 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In response to Bruin8uclap

I say DO NOT make your feelings known to the players at the Spring game. They know by now the reaction they have spurned amongst their new coaches, fans, students, and alumni. Bringing up bad emotions at what should be an exciting, positive atmosphere game on Saturday will leave our players in a bad mindset for the whole long summer.

These guys would have heard enough about this by then. If some scrawny "fan" disses a big football player to his face when they are allowing photos, what do you think is going to happen?

Remember, these guys are only young college students. They aren't professional NFL athletes like Terrell Owens and Tony Romo who can take criticism. Oh wait a second....

by Steven on Apr 16, 2008 6:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Chow interview on 570

He said of all the years he's been involved with football, he's never seen anything like this.
But other than that he seems to be happy with his job here.

by lildre on Apr 16, 2008 6:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

chow interview on am570

chow_interview

Here's that interview if you guys want to hear it.

by bruin95 on Apr 16, 2008 6:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dude

Chow sounds like Sylvester Stallone!!

by Steven on Apr 16, 2008 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

While missing one practice in the Spring

may be short term, the "long term" effects will come back to haunt us? What "long term" effects am I talking about?

It's the fact that whenever we mess up in the Fall, the media, TV color commentator, ESPN, radio, et. al will say things like "Maybe UCLA should have utilized that one lost practice to avoid things like (fill in the blank)."

What's worse is the fans of other teams taunting at us in-person before/after games at the Rose Bowl with this ditch-day thing. Argh.

by Steven on Apr 16, 2008 6:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

There is an elephant(s) in the room...

that we are not talking about. Two certain recruits...

by bruindodger on Apr 16, 2008 6:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If you are seeing elephants

that you want to talk about, you can do so in the diaries.

GO BRUINS.

by Nestor on Apr 16, 2008 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Seniors DID show leadership

Going over the wall is a long established tradition with this program. You don't have to like it. You don't have to agree with it. You don't have to support it. But don't forget that a lot of great players who have won a lot of games went over that wall. Including a couple of members of the current coaching staff.

I say the Seniors did show leadership in maintaining a longstanding tradition of the program. They could have refused and buckled to the conventional wisdom that every second of practice time is precious. That would have been the easy out. But no, they said "not on my watch". If next year's seniors want to puss out and cave in to the opinion of a bunch of reporters and "discussion" board lurkers who hide behind anonymous handles and have never suffered physically more than a rough case of jock itch, it's on them. But this year's group of seniors sacked up and said "follow me youngster, we're going over the wall." Yes, we'll probably have to do extra running, probably make these reps up at 6am, or at the end of a tough practice. That's ok. I'll pay the price. We have a tradition. We have a way of doing things in this program. And while I'm leading the charge, we are going to respect the traditions.

by Ducky on Apr 16, 2008 8:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Disagree

The Oregon fans have a nice tradition that they showed to the Love family. trOJies have a nice tradition of cheating. I could go on an on. Traditions that are positive are one thing, but traditions that are negative are another thing altogether.

In the early 70's, it was traditional for college students to have really long hair. Our redheaded center decided he would go with that tradition, and would not get a haircut no matter what. Coach let it be known that he would be off the team if he chose his tradition of long hair over the team's tradition of short hair. The team mattered to Coach, and the submission of self to team is one reason why we have all those banners up in the rafters. To me, this ditch business (which I had never heard about before this week) is all about me and not about team.

I can't say and I don't think anyone can say that missing this practice will hurt us at all in any game. But I don't see how skipping a practice can possibly make us a better team. If I were a coach, I would hope that the seniors would have said that ditching is associated with five years of losing, and practicing hard is associated with winning.

by Fox 71 on Apr 16, 2008 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well-Stated, Fox

"Success travels in the company of very hard work. There is no trick, no easy way."--Coach John Wooden.

The "very hard work" part requires sacrifice of many things--in this case, a questionble, ill-timed "tradition."

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Apr 17, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, fine

but it sure sounds like it's become disorganized and lazy. Going over the wall means going over that east wall near lot 6 not walking out the gate near the locker rooms like they did yesterday.

by bruin95 on Apr 16, 2008 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding?

Going to practice is "buckl[ing] to conventional wisdom? I am sorry, maybe you can tell us that time you installed a completely new football offense in only THREE! practices, countering all that silly "conventional" wisdom that practice makes better. Hell, let's just wing it!

If we had 100 practices, then ditching one would not be a big deal. If we have 15 allowed practices, ditching one is SEVEN PERCENT of the entire alloted spring practice time.

Everybody on this board who disagrees is a "lurker" who have "never suffered physically more than a rough case of jock itch"? The players have come to UCLA on ATHLETIC scholarships. Nobody who isn't on an athletic scholarship needs to defend themselves in that regard.

I came here on an academic scholarship. If my GPA had dropped below 3.5 for a year, (i.e. if I had gotten 6As and 7Bs, i.e.e. if I had gone 6-7 during the season), my scholarship would have been dropped. Do you think the renewal committee would have been happy to hear "I missed the first few lectures because the midterm and finals were so far away. I thought it would be okay because it's a new class on material I have never seen before!"

This is UCLA, not Oregon where nobody cares whether you succeed.

P.S.

You should know that there is more to suffering and endurance than physical suffering and physical endurance. We may not all have gotten tackled, but many people on this board have gone through a lot more than 15 spring football practices.

by dokein on Apr 16, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great Post!

Well said.

Great perspective.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Apr 16, 2008 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

so...

you can honestly say you never ditched a day of class before?

by hbruin84 on Apr 16, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for missing the point.

Get a B- on the midterm --> go to every lecture to get the grade up and maintain the necessary GPA.

Get an A+ on the midterm --> class attendance optional.

First three lectures in a subject that I haven't been exposed to --> go to the every lecture until I can evaluate my performance on the midterm.

First three lectures in a subject I am doing 20 hours research / week for the past 2 years in --> class attendance optional.

by dokein on Apr 16, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for missing the new offensive scheme...

simplification of the west coast offense. and i would say they have been putting in a lot more than 20 hours a week for the last 2 years on that subject.

seriously though, marcus everett, is a guy who i would give an 'a+' on his midterm football grade. how would you feel if attendance at football practice was optional for him?

by hbruin84 on Apr 16, 2008 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The analogy is getting strained.

A group project is not equal to an individual project. I've had high As and continued to work my ass off because 1) the concepts were important outside of the scope of the class or 2) group projects mean people depend on you.

You can nitpick at the details of an ANALOGY all you want, but the fundamental point remains the SAME.

What is the commonality between every good football player, every good lawyer, every good scientist, every good doctor, every good humanitarian? They work their ass off to achieve a HIGH LEVEL of performance, and then they work some more.

Do you think that is a coincidence?

It isn't so much missing one practice. Traditions REFLECT culture, they don't just appear out of thin air. I don't care if it's been tradition for the past 30 years--frankly, UCLA hasn't been where it needs to be in football in the past 30 years, except for a period of winning where ... "coincidentally" ... that tradition was abolished.

Nowhere have I said that we're doomed next season, or that these are all lazy kids. One practice MIIIGHHHT make a difference in one game, but certainly it wouldn't make a season. The reason I am disappointed is because the seniors on the team are not kids, they're young adults. Some of them with NFL aspirations (and if you can't handle 15 spring practices, you can't handle the NFL). I think it is high time we bring in a new football culture.

by dokein on Apr 16, 2008 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

also

maybe first have a game like they did in 1980 where they blew out Oregon State by 40 and beat SC?

by bruin95 on Apr 16, 2008 8:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

its easy to say

but harder to do.

as a coach you would sit down and tell your players the previous four years your teams were losers? forget your traditions because they were associated with losing. here are some new traditions, by the way this is a passion bucket, if your good you get one. come on. this is getting out of hand.

you have to expect some backlash associated with a new coach, even if you think the previous coach was terrible. these seniors for the past 3 or 4 years have known nothing but dorrells way. there lives our football. your wives might think yours is too, but theres really is. waking up at 6 to work out and get stronger. after workouts try to get some film in before class. go to class then get back in the weight room to make up some of your lifts. watch more film. eat lunch together in training table. watch more film as a team. have meetings. then after that practice. i didnt even mention if you have an injury go to the training room twice a day. so cutting out practice for a day and giving these guys a much needed break, while truly showing teamwork, will not hurt and it showed this GREAT leadership.

old traditions wont just die out, so just expect them. so you can start complaining now about the rookie show in august.

by hbruin84 on Apr 16, 2008 9:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Acually

I think Neuheisel could sit down the team and say its time to scrap an old tradition, which as has been posted elsewhere, appears to be rooted in a sense of entitlement rather than achievement.

Neuheisel is the new head coach and has the right to lead the team how he wants.

I can't believe a school that's been playing football as long as UCLA has doesn't have other traditions that make more sense than this one. Would a SoCal recruit who takes football seriously want to play for the school that skips practice?

When I was a high school senior, most of my classmates who were serious about their studies didn't participate in ditch day.

I agree that every body needs some time off now and then and those times are called off-seasons, vacations, weekends and sick days. We can be so much better than this.

by FreewayBruin03 on Apr 17, 2008 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Failing to prepare...

is preparing to fail, as a great man once said. Also, the way you practice mirrors how you perform in games. Practice must be taken seriously. Unless you are Allen Iverson.

"Make each day your masterpiece" - JRW

by UCLAMD89 on Apr 16, 2008 10:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs