Help needed in a "discussion" with a Trojan
I am involved in a good-natured debate with a USC fan about the type of players USC is able to recruit versus the ones our Bruins can pursue due to academic standards.
You all saw the Times article this weekend about Pete Carrol, right? Well, our discussion started out when I questioned (only a tad seriously) the real reason that Pete Carrol trolls the streets of South Central at midnight: he is selling the USC brand and building good will to see that the athletes from L.A. come to USC when that time comes.
I explained that UCLA can't touch many of those players due to our academics and my friend acted like she never heard of such a thing, and accused me of sour grapes (as would I her, if it were the other way around).
She said that it is harder to get into USC than UCLA and that the playing field was surely "even" in regards to admissions for athletes, with both schools having to meet the same standards.
Now we know that is not true, but how do I prove that to her?
Other than the anecdotal evidence, I can't think of what sources I have to win this debate. Can any of you help me?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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58 comments
Comments
Admission
And you cannot look at SAT scores.
USC takes the highest score per specific test, while UC's take one test overall. (So my USC Sat Score was 240 points higher than UCLA's).
Secondly our average freshman GPA was 4.3...
Hmmm... USC is nowhere close.
It is general knowledge that UCLA is harder to get into than USC... at least to intelligent people.
My friends from High School with 3.7./3.8 got in USC. People with 4.2 did not get into UCLA.
by dproduct on Apr 20, 2008 11:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ask any recent USC admit
by bruin75 on Apr 20, 2008 11:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope your friend is hot...
by dokein on Apr 20, 2008 11:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ever heard the jokes about
University of Second Choice
or how about
Bruins and Trojans have at least one thing in common... They all got into USC.
Kidding aside, they are working on their image. Too bad they can't give up the thug football program. Anyone know why they came up in the US NEWS or whatever it is "top schools" so quickly? I think they jumped from 40 something to top 20 in one year. How is that? Is it because alumni money is a factor and Lucas dumped all that money on them last year or two ago? The world may never know.
by Bruins100NCAA on Apr 21, 2008 3:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No, my friend. You've got to
You see, with its location and elitist image, USC maintains an outstanding community outreach program that utilizes its medical, dental, pharmacy & other professional school students to provide free community healthcare & educational services not only for the residents but also elementary students enrolled in those administratively dysfuntional, instructionally dismal LAUSD campuses around that area.
Its comprehensive scope, backed by its resources does earn USC the gratitude of the impoverished, crime stricken communities within which the campus locates.
A few years back, when my eye suffered a retinal tear, my ophthalmologist also referred me to USC's Doheny Eye Institute, affiliated with its Keck School of Medicine, for treatment & laser surgery.
Not that I couldn't insist on going to UCLA's Jules Stein Eye Institure then. But with the severity of the tear and the proximity of Keck School of Medicine's brand new medical complex closer to where I live, that was the one time I submitted to the "field enemy's" medical care.
They treated me well, not knowing I had my UCLA shirt tucked in under my jacket and bantered with me amicably to relieve my anxieties. You can perhaps compare it to an enemy guard sharing his cigarette with a POW before pulling the trigger on him. In my case, it was that laser device the Trojan retinal specialist trained on my dilated eyeball to seal the tear.
So I hope I won't get any "verbal grenades" hurled my way, or driving into some roadside explosives next time I come home ( just kidding ). But I do feel that sports competition aside, USC's humanitarian work deserves our recognition too, much as we strives to maul them senseless either on the basketball court or football field.
by Htse005 on Apr 21, 2008 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their humanitarian work
Great place. Great humanitarians.
by Fox 71 on Apr 21, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Fox 71
Because you are in Florida now, but if you still vaguely remember that part of downtown Los Angeles, the comtemporary USC medical complex plus the hospital sits atop a hilly area overlooking the railroad tracks, ramshackled industrial areas west of the Cal State LA campus.
With UCLA's sleekly polished, ultra modern, state of the art Ronald Reagan Medical Plaza eclipsing over every metropolitan medical facilities in Los Angeles, I had the feeling on that " D Day ", when I nervously stepped inside the brand new Keck School of Medicine for my scheduled laser eye surgery, that they were desperately trying to catch up with us in the medical field.
But my friend, let's be objective. I bash Trojans
ferociously too, sometimes with such deathly shrill tones that my posts never appeared. Yet on that occasion, their medical personnels, especially the retinal expert, a middle eastern fellow that looked every bit easy target for Homeland Security agents, treated my eye ailment perfectly to a fault. I am grateful to them.
Just last week, Keck School of Medicine lost one of its pereminent expert in bladder cancer and urinological research, a designated department head too, at a young age of 45 while attending a conference in Florida.
Vanquish USC all we want here, but we've got to give it to them in other areas they excel.
by Htse005 on Apr 21, 2008 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
by oldblueeyes on Apr 22, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello, oldblueyes
The content has to do with a computer geek (me actually) hacking into the computer systems at the business office of the Keck medical complex. You know what he found out !?! Those doctors' biweekly pay indeed have way too many digits over the work hours they claimed. Enraged, the computer geek proceeded to transfer all those billion$$$$$$, slated for various bank deposits the next work day over into the UCLA Athletic Department accounts. He could just visualize the smile on Dan Guerrero, Gene Block, Edwin Pauley's heir and even those Morgan Center secretaries' faces.
Because someone already summoned LAPD upon seeing some shimmering of lights inside the business office late in the night, so he had to hurry or be caught by LAPD, already punching in the entry codes with guns drawn, tear gas launchers mounted, ready to fire.
Not to end this upcoming Pulitzer prize winner on a sad note, the LAPD captain leading the charge into the building was none other than Mike Warren, moonlighting to augment his retirement income. So all's well ends well. Walter Annenberg's estate simply reimbursed Keck's medical complex everything. End of story.
by Htse005 on Apr 22, 2008 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Traitor!
Besides that, I am very glad that they helped you out because a retina tear is no joke.
by tasser10 on Apr 22, 2008 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I apprecaite the humor
9 am.
If the doctor could somehow arrange for a helicopter flight from San Marino to Westwood's Jules Stein Eye Institute, landing right by the campus kiosk, I would have gladly foot the bill after the medical insurance payment. No kidding.
I could not have survived those enemy sniper fire. Apparently Hillary Clinton didn't dare to brave that either in Kosovo.
But you read my part that I had my Bruin sweatshirt under my jacket, right ? So I held my head high, albeit a heightened sense of nervousness akin to a blindfolded Dan Rather being led in to interview Osama Bin Laden.
My gutsy Bruin spirit helped me survived the ordeal of numerous series of blastings emanated from the laser device into my eyeball for what seemed like eternity. So in the end, "the enemy doctor" did provide me good medical care under the stipulations of the Geneva Convention 1954, Article XXYYZZ. I salute them for that.
by Htse005 on Apr 22, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fear not
by tasser10 on Apr 22, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Hear You Tasser
I get it. If UCLA students would camp outside Pauley, braving temperature in the low 30's at night just to see the Bruins duke it out the next afternoon with Coyote State, for sure next time I am going to apply for a camping permit from UCLA campus police first, then erect my own tent outside Jules Stein Eye Institute the evening before. The size of my tent shall put to shame the one that houses the Libyan leader Mohmar Khadaffi, replete with snow leopard fur as carpet, servants at my command, etc.
So at the crack of dawn, when the building janitor checked in, I could then be the first one in line at the reception counter. Well, I hope this will earn me back my sullied credential as a Bruin faithful, having made a judgemental error for personal health reason.
No, please, never again your honor.
by Htse005 on Apr 22, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather
by joeb on Apr 23, 2008 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tongue in cheek, Joeb.
Conversely, perhaps a Trojan would do that were he in my shoes.
by Htse005 on Apr 23, 2008 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BN always has timely commentary...
by bornagainbruin on Apr 23, 2008 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay !
At least in my case, they adhered to the Geneva Convention 1954, Article XXYYZZ and fixed it well - to a fault ! As you've read already, the next time something happens, I would demand an Apache helicopter to ferry me straight across town from San Marino to UCLA's Ronald Reagan Medical Plaza for treatment. I would also remind the pilot to drop flares in diverting ground to air missiles from those South Central insurgents.
Having confessed that I once submitted to Trojan medical personnels' care is pushing it dangerously to the precipice here on BN. Never, never again my friend. My wallet be darned.
by Htse005 on Apr 23, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go To U.S.C.'s Website
Then review the recent report linked here, (by Nestor, I think), regarding our 2008 freshman class.
That ought to do it.
by Bruingirl83 on Apr 21, 2008 7:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
The best counter to your friend's argument is that yes, USC reports higher SAT scores than UCLA, but that's because USC reports the highest "combined SAT score." That is to say, if you get a 700 on each section of the SAT the first time, but the second time, you get a 700, an 800, and a 600, USC reports your score as 700-800-700, while UCLA reports it as 700-700-700
by OverflowingPassionBucket on Apr 21, 2008 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you hear the one...
The average GPA of both schools went up.
by 90Bruin on Apr 21, 2008 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That was..
by whp68 on Apr 21, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, "God" yes..
..and cackle fiendishly.
Sherman did recoup himself to some degree later by going on to play for the Raiders, did he not? Of course, I make the assumption that the Raiders -- prior to Al Davis chewing off all his fingernails and becoming senile -- were a team worthy of some fragment of respect. (See, young guys, it happens to everybody.)
by whp68 on Apr 21, 2008 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This shouldn't be hard...
UCLA: Jackie Robinson
U$C: O.J. Simpson
Do I really need to say more?
by norcald503 on Apr 21, 2008 9:22 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Unfair!
by Fox 71 on Apr 21, 2008 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right, Fox
I was going to mentioned LenDale "Free Rent" White (DUI) and Frostee "We Own the LAPD" Rucker (numberous run-ins with the law), but I doubt these two actually graduated.
by bruinbabe2000 on Apr 23, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, how about...
That's not too bad...
by Bruins100NCAA on Apr 22, 2008 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's another role model out of USC
( correct spelling I hope ). I have no idea if Haldemann was a Trojan but Erlichmann is one, for sure. So now we have excellent role models for planning burglary, wiretappings too. If anyone who's toilets, kitchen sinks etc do not flush or flow properly, call the heirs to these " plumbers unit ". But I wouldn't guarantee next time you cuss, talk dirty over the phone, you wouldn't find the transcripts of your conversation all over NY Times.
by Htse005 on Apr 22, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
un, hate to say it
by bruinhoo on Apr 26, 2008 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly
by SuperBruinMan on Apr 22, 2008 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course !
OJ ? Well, well, well... I do believe the trans fat, cholesterol etc in his system, due to his years of living, eating on the cheap in Florida, are doing a number on him. Hey, with that civil lawsuit's mega$$$$ decision shadowing him every moment of his waking life, he's got to really
" supersize " himself as a relief. Then, is he still dedicating the rest of his life to catch "himself" as Nicole's murderer ? We need to perhaps ask his kids if their daddy is working hard at it.
You know, the recent newspaper photos of him resemble those wanted Central American drug lords living on the lam, with government agents never more than a step behind.
by Htse005 on Apr 23, 2008 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I myself have had the same arugment
by UCLABRU1 on Apr 21, 2008 1:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
well, not really
by schumd on Apr 21, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is how SuC wins this Argument
The Los Angeles Magazine printed a dual addition last year before our game with TrOJans (one Pro SC edition/one pro UCLA addition) They actually had this question in the article and it was astonishing to read. (I tried to get a link to the article, but couldn't find one). I couldn't believe it when I read this, but the numbers were right there.
SuC gets a huge number of applicants, granted not as many as UCLA, but they also have a smaller Freshman class. Thus, purely by this calculus they can claim it is harder to get into Suc vs. UCLA.
Granted, this argument falls like a house of cards when you look at the average scores (GPAs and admissions exams) of the incoming Freshman classes from each school, and how SuC takes the highest Admissions test scores from its applicants. FActor in also the flexibility they have as a private instition to make exceptions for atheletes that UCLA doesn't have (at least to the exent of SuC).
But when you just look at the applicantions/admissions numbers, can make a colorable argument. And trust me, they made them. Me and my UCLA buddies took a lot of Sh*t prior the game last year when this came out.
Tough to swallow, but its "true".
Good luck
by Bald Eagle on Apr 21, 2008 1:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
GREAT READING
You'll find that (along with the University of Texas systems) the UC system has simply output more grad/postgrad industry leaders across a wider swath of fields than any other public education system on the planet... and I'd venture to say UCLA has had a huge sway on those figures.
Not a knock on $C. More of my friends/family have degrees from there than anywhere else. Academically, it's like debating which shines brighter, the Sun or the Moon... you could go on all night, but there's just no apt description for it.
by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Apr 21, 2008 2:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
"it's like debating which shines brighter,
Let's extend this analogy a bit farther. The sun actually creates it's own light whereas the moon only reflects the sun's energy. So perhaps USC is able to "shine" as it does because it's proximity to UCLA allows it to reflect some of Westwood's excess energy. I have a few friends that went to USC for graduate work after finding it difficult to get into UCLA graduate schools. Plus there is the aforementioned joke about UCLA and USC students both getting into USC.
However, USC is trying very hard to recruit students with strong admissions numbers. When I was applying to and choosing between schools in 99/00 USC was the first acceptance I received, the first scholarship offer and the first recruiting weekend I could attend. They made a very strong push to indoctrinate potential students early and entice them with money and perks. In fact they were persuasive enough that I had my dad (an UCLA alum) buy me a future oil rag from the student store. Fortunately I came to my senses, gleefully turned down the $20,000 + a year they wanted to give me and never looked back. Unfortunately I'm sure some very good people were lured to the dark side by the $C song and dance.
by TrueBlueBlood on Apr 21, 2008 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NICE
by theREAL_LOGAN5 on Apr 22, 2008 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks folks
by Dodger Hater on Apr 21, 2008 10:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You can take all of the facts and points..
BN is, among other things, a great resource. Don't waste the advice and knowledge provided.
by whp68 on Apr 21, 2008 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I felt like your question
What I thought you were getting at was UCLA's academic requirements for athletes vs. SUC's. I know UCLA's is higher and that they(the ucla teams) have they have higher overall GPA's(without taking bogus classes like ballroom dancing that some usc alum have been know to take) than the SC players.
I bet someone has got the exact statistics though on avg. grades/sats for SC vs. UCLA athletes coming out of highschool, and grades in college.
by Ollie on Apr 22, 2008 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
by bluestreet on Apr 22, 2008 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here, here!
by Dodger Hater on Apr 22, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The college experience
The college experience seems a little nicer at UCLA than at justsc.
Or go to a game at the Rose Bowl, then make the long hike to Old Pasadena for an aperetif. (I've done it, even though it's mostly uphill so anyone can do it.) Tell her that once the security arrangements have been double-checked, you'll get in the armored personnel carrier to go from the Crapaseum to ... where? Where you you go for a nice post-game snack or libation? Julies? That's just Crapaseum-east.
Or you might ask her the ultimate question. Where would she rather go to school - UCLA or justsc? An honest answer would be revealing. But if she says justsc, she is beyond help. As some said higher in this thread, if she really think justsc is a better place to spend her college career, then she really, REALLY better be a hottie.
by Fox 71 on Apr 22, 2008 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Julies
by Free the 16 on Apr 22, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SC vs. UCLA
I have a long time social acquaintance, an SC grad himself, whose daughter has special learning challenges. He specifically chose SC for her for college because "I didn't want her to be too challenged academically"..... Just passing it along.
Bill
by Mensgym on Apr 22, 2008 11:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Dodger..
via http://uclabruins.cstv.com/genrel/ucla-recruiting-home.html
I couldn't find anything on SUC's admission requirements, I think they're just non existant
by Ollie on Apr 22, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
But this is just for academics?
Has anyone ever heard of a USC player being academically ineligible? Or have you ever heard that they want to play for SC but they have to pass something first?
by Dodger Hater on Apr 22, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if it helps
by oldblueeyes on Apr 22, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two words should help you win the debate
by bruin7982 on Apr 22, 2008 12:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Football Admission Standards
College Football Resource http://www.collegefootballresource.com/blog/2006/2/5/squeezing-the-cork-back-into-the-bottle.html
has the original link to the article.
Thing is, since the article is over 30 days old, you now have to pay to see the entire article. I remember reading it a while back, but I don't remember their methodology.
Here is a link to a summary the Orlando Sentinel provides for free:
These are the BCS conferences from CFR (first link above):
# Big East: West Virginia-2, USF-2, Louisville-2, Cincinnati-2, Rutgers-4, Pittsburgh-6, Connecticut-6, Syracuse-7
# Big Ten: Ohio State-3, Michigan State-3, Minnesota-4, Wisconsin-5, Purdue-5, Iowa-5, Indiana-5, Illinois-6, Penn State-7, Michigan-7, Northwestern-9
# Big 12: Oklahoma State-2, Kansas State-2, Texas Tech-3, Iowa State-3, Texas A&M-4, Baylor-4, Nebraska-5, Kansas-5, Oklahoma-5, Colorado-5, Missouri-7, Texas-7
# Pacific-10: USC-3, Washington State-3, Oregon State-3, Arizona State-3, Washington-5, Oregon-5, Arizona-5, Cal-6, UCLA-8, Stanford-9
# Southeastern: Tennessee-2, South Carolina-2, Mississippi State-2, Ole Miss-3, LSU-3, Auburn-3, Arkansas-3, Alabama-3, Kentucky-5, Florida-5, Georgia-7, Vanderbilt-9
Hope this helps.
by truebluebruin on Apr 22, 2008 3:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yea good find
by Ollie on Apr 22, 2008 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now we are getting somewhere ....
by Nestor on Apr 22, 2008 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now <i>THAT</i> is something solid!
by Dodger Hater on Apr 23, 2008 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheating at SUC
I realize I have been extremely vague here but that is simply a "just in case" measure because I wish to protect the identity of the person who told this to me.
How Doh!n of me...Fox will be disappointed.
by Tydides on Apr 22, 2008 4:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nah - I'm fine with it
I don't wish any misfortune for your friend, but I hope he or she gets improperly terminated, and then chooses to blow the whistle publicly. The disgruntled employee, of course, is the great fear of any institution which cheats as a matter of course. And it also puts your friend in a bullet-proof position: "Cheatie Petie, I think I need a raise -- I'm starting to feel the need to call the same reporters at Yahoo who blew up bu$hgate."
by Fox 71 on Apr 22, 2008 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moreover, with regards to the whistleblower issue
by Htse005 on Apr 23, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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