National Playoff in Football: my idea
Bumped. Nice post initiating great discussion that others may find worthwhile to dive right in. GO BRUINS.-N
I noticed this in the LATimes today.
(I can't figure out how to box a quote, so I won't bother. I'll be happy if I got the link part right. I'm learning....)
Anyway, the article deals with the BCS "Plus One" scenario possibly coming up for a vote, and that the Pac 10 and Big Ten will nix the idea, effectively killing it, since it requires a unanimous vote.
I would be curious what the BN faithful think of this idea. I'm sure it has been discussed before, but I'm sure there are lots of us who have come aboard since its last discussion and would like to get our two cents' worth out there for the record.
I will go on record and state that I don't like any of the ideas for playoffs I have heard bounced around, since ultimately they all lead back to the polls. And most of us west-coasters think the polls favor eastern teams anyway--in particular the SEC, who seem to make a killing scheduling 1-AA teams and Sun Belt Conference teams, with only Georgia, I think, making some honest effort to play good non-conference schedules. Yes, I know Tennessee is playing UCLA, and has done so within recent memory, but the SEC teams have 4 out-of-conference games on their schedule, and most of the teams schedule 4 mediocre teams, or one good team and three very bad teams. As I said, over the past few years, only Georgia seems to make any real attempt to play worthy opponents at least half the time. Their tired SEC argument for doing so is that their conference is so tough--but how do we know that, really, when they generally schedule a gaggle of nobodies, and then face each other? The intra-SEC competition is so insular that with no exterior points of reference, they can't even prove the SEC schedule is tough.
Anyway, as I was saying, anything that puts too much credence on the polls is a waste of time, as I see it. I can't help but wonder how in the world USC was left out of the title game when they were #1 in both polls a few years back. That made no sense then, and still doesn't today. Two lesser teams, LSU and Oklahoma, played a very dull national championship game, when USC would likely have beaten either team badly, and given that they were poised to do so in both polls; but ultimately they were given the "No Trojans Need Apply" plaquard quite out of the blue.
I am sorry that may sound like a love fest for South Centralites--I wish it were not so, but there's really no getting around that they were the best college team that year.
The Pac 10 in particular has every reason to dismiss any National Championship playoff format that gets decided in the polls. Within the last, what, 5 or 6 years (maybe a little more) Oregon State, Oregon, and Cal have been screwed by the BCS selection committees, and the aforementioned USC debacle prevented a Pac 10 representative the chance to earn a national championship. So why would the Pac 10 come on board for such a thing as a national championship, even in a "plus one" scenario, which will boil down to voters in the end anyway.
So, here's my proposal for a playoff system:
Conference champions only.
There are 11 conferences in Division 1 (Bowl Division, or whatever). Six of them are the major conferences: Pac 10, Big Ten, Big XII, ACC, Big East (debatable, but they managed to convince someone of this when Miami and VT were there) and the SEC.
So, the winners of these conferences go automatically to the playoff format.
The remaining conferences--C-USA, Mountian West, Sun Belt, WAC, Mid-American, and the 1-A independents get two at-large berths. This past year, that might have been Hawaii and BYU. Would BYU belong there? No, but at least these other conferences would have a shot at a championship game, whereas now they are basically locked out. Did Hawaii belong? Debatable, but they made it anyway, had their chance, and got shown the door quiclky and rudely.
So, those are my eight teams in the playoff. Seed them however you like, but they're all in, and that's the point. And I'll get to how the bowls would fit in in a minute.
The winners advance to the semis, to be played wherever, and from there to the NC game. Now, this would only add 1 WEEK to the current schedule, since this year's NC game was held a week after the Rose Bowl. THAT week would be the semis, and the championship game the following Monday, so as not to interfere with the NFL playoffs, happening concurrently.
An added benefit of this would be that teams would not be afraid to play a top program and lose, which in the current state of things could well eliminate them from NC contention. But not so under this policy. They could have 3 losses in non-conference and still be in the NC game. Don't we all get tired of seeing crap games like [pick any SEC team] vs. Troy State? Games like that are a joke. And yeah, App. St. beating Michigan was great to see, but how often can you expect that to happen, and wouldn't seeing UCLA playing non-conf. schedule of LSU, Ohio St., and Miami be much more exciting, when these caliber games are the norm and not the exception? It means it's ALL about winning the conference, since if you lose a conference game you're screwed. Yetif you lose a non-conference game, it can be a sizing-up affair for any team to see where they stand againt tough competition. Isn't that how it's supposed to be? Nobody could force an extra SEC or Big Ten team into the playoff format. Every major conference gets to put up its champion, and no one else. League champs only! There is no room for bias, with the exception of a team like Notre Dame, whom the networks would want in, but they already have requirements to get guaranteed entrance anyway. And if they're the best of the rest, then so be it. It would always guarantee a Boise or Hawaii or Fresno or Bowling Green or BYU or Utah or the like a shot. That, to me, makes it much more likely to be a legitimate NC game than what polls might decide.
Now, how do the bowls fit in? I would see the four major bowls host the Quarter finals, and all on Jan. 1st, as it ought to be. (My personal preference would be to kick out the Fiesta Bowl since that used to be a second-tier affair until they brought in Tostitos, I think, and hosted Penn St. and Miami--but before that "NC" game, they were aligned with the Pac 10, I believe, and not a major bowl; I would replace them with the Cotton Bowl, since there in much more tradition in that game and it's old Southwest Conference ties.)
None of the other bowls need to be compromised, and only 1 week gets added to the fray. You'd have a legitimate playoff of conference champions, and TWO (as opposed to the begrudgingly-given one we've had, and only the last two years at that--Boise and Hawaii) non-(current)BCS teams. Every team in Div. 1 could have a fair shot. The mid-level and lower level teams would have to earn it, but there would be an avenue by which they could.
Not a finished product by any means, but it addresses a lot of the current concerns and apprehensions about a playoff system, and might be something everyone could get something out of.
At any rate, I'd love to hear what BN thinks, pro or con, or your ideas as to how a playoff ought to work.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Playoffs are good
Give every conference one automatic birth. Fill the remaining 5 slots with at large teams, seed like the NCAA tournament for basketball (committee). Make sure everybody ends their season before December like the Big 10 does and have 4 weeks of pure joy culminating with the national championship game on new years day.
Sounds great to me, you can have neutral sites or home games for higher seeds, I don't care. All I want is a championship decided on the field.
What I've been saying for years
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Apr 27, 2008 11:29 PM PDT reply actions
I completely agree
The NCAA tournament is fun with so many teams, but I don't pay much attention to any of the bubble talk. Every team had the same opportunity to win their conference's automatic bid. If you don't earn it, live with the consequences.
A few comments
- A correction: Utah was the first non-BCS to make it, and actually won their game convincingly, though it was over Pitt, one of the worst BCS teams ever.
- The Pac 10 and the Big East (I'm guessing on them) are the only conferences that determine their championship fairly, by playing a full round robin. In the Big 12, ACC and SEC (I think), conference chamionship games can really screw things up, especially in the Big 12. The winner of that game is by no means always the best team from that conference, which could always have a single letdown game. Some may say that they should have just won that game, but I think the event loses a little legitimacy without the best teams. The Big 10 has the worst system, though, though, as they skip 2 teams each year in their conference round robin. The conference winner can easily be messed up there.
- I'm not a fan of including the bowls as a round in the playoffs, though I don't have any real reason against it. My main issue is with people who worry about what'll happen to the minor bowls with a playoff. It's simple - nothing. No one cares about those bowls besides the fans of the teams in them anyway. They're ALL meaningless exhibitions right now, except for the National Championship game.
Conference Championships
As for the small bowls, I like watching them. What I would really love is to have them play during the week while we wait for the big games.
The NCAA can't really force them to change
What if, say, Texas beats every team by 35 points but comes out flat and loses in the Big 12 Championship on a last second TD after a terrible call by a referee to a team that has 2 or 3 conference losses? The playoff would lose both a lot of support and a lot of luster if essentially the consensus best team can't get in after playing one mediocre game and getting screwed.
2 Things
Second. The conferences, and necessarily the schools, understand that their conference championship games can lead to your hypothetical situation. They have the conference championship games for the money they can make. The schools have agreed they prefer to have the money and not the guarantee that best team be rewarded. To come to that conclusion, the schools had to agree that they would be willing to risk their chance at a guaranteed (currently) BCS bowl for a conference championship game that would lead to a payout.
So, even though such a team would make the playoffs anyways, you have to remember that this exact scenario was contemplated when all of these conferences when they decided to go with the championship game. They have all imagined this before and made the value judgment. If they should decide to change it, then they can, but there is no reason they cannot live with their own decision to go for the cash.
I have no issue with conference championship games
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Apr 28, 2008 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
There isn't, really.
Indeed, wild cards make the system work
The decisions made by conferences and schools for championship games were not made with a playoff system in place. They probably knew they were taking a risk in terms of money, but they can't have known they were risking the national championship, what they play for. I'm not saying they wouldn't still take the money, and I think they probably couldn't do away with it even if they wanted to.
The fact that they made these deals should preclude them from complaining, but I can't see why it should stop someone with absolutely no say in the matter from discussing what might or might not be a good system.
One big issue
Their new motto should be "Always over ranked and perenially overrated".
If their is going to be a playoff format, the rules need to be equal for all. Special rules for any team would then mean a deserving team was left out.
The BCS
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Apr 28, 2008 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions
ND gets carried away
Notre Dame vs. Rutgers: Playing Holier Than Thou, by Harvey Araton of the NYT.
I think RU deserves commendation.
Complaining
There are special rules for them when it coms to eligibility for a BCS bowl. It's not fair to the other teams trying to get a BCS bid.
ND has lost it's last 8 bowl games I think including being bitch slapped in the BCS games.
ND needs to join a conference
The logical choice for them would be to follow their b-ball team into the Big East. An annual West Virginia-ND showdown would be great to watch. Until that happens, however, I'll continue to loathe everything about their "elite" football program and independent status.
by hspigskinfan on Apr 28, 2008 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I wish UCLA didn't have to joing a conference
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Apr 28, 2008 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Two comments
- Rye, just stick around on the planet long enough, and like all others who haven't been seduced by the dark side of the Force (are you listening Nestor), you will come to despise the Yankees.
- The one (I suppose the only one) reason not to want a playoff in football is that it allows so much room for off-season arguing. Blogs, sports talk shows, and civilization as we know it would soon disappear if a playoff were instituted.
Wait, that's bad?
That is a very good point
A little off the point, but not far -- I write legal stuff for a living. I wanted very much to describe what one of my adversaries was saying as "blowhardity." The person for whom I was writing this stuff didn't like the word. I think if you can't use the word "blowhardity" at some point in your legal career, you should ..., well, I don't know what you should do, but you should do something.
I'm going to give it a try
Fox
Calling all Bruins!
No help required, but thanks
Maybe I'm just beyond help.
When ND and the Scumbags play each other, I don't root for ND, I just hope the Toejams lose.
My fondest wish every year is for ND to go 1-11 and the Toejams to go 0-12.
MY biggest problem is ND thinks they are better than anyone else for what they did 40+ years ago. They think this entitles them to special rules. If they are so good, they should earn the bowls on merit, like everyone else.
UCLA basketball has a history second to none but there aren't any special rules for us when it comes tourney time. We have to earn it like everyone else.
Besides they had two of the biggest crybabies in Ara & Digger coaching for them, who could root for those guys?
Now I need to get back to plan my trip to visit the NEW Yankee stadium when it opens.
Your critism of ND is unjustified
First, they make money for the NCAA. That is not their fault. NBC has a major deal with them because PEOPLE WATCH THE SHOW. If people did not, there would be no show.
Second, they like to play who they like and joining a conference would not allow them to do this. They structure their schedule (although this doesn't work all the time) to anticipate great match-ups and to pay tribute to the teams they play. Because of the first state of affairs, ND can use its popularity to highlight other programs. For instance, UCLA for the last two years.
ND is arguably the greatest college football team. Sure they have fallen on hard times lately, but they did win an NC in 88 and held SUC winless 13 years in a row. These are no mean accomplishments. They will return to greatness, just as we did. They run a clean program with high academic standards (sound familiar?).
Maybe we can sympathize, we ARE the greatest team in basketball and a few others. We have plenty of people who hate us because of it. You just have to get over the fact that they ended our winning streak. I know that it would have been nice for it to go on and on, but that is not to be. I'm not holding a grudge.
BTW, I agree: Digger is a moron.
by Bruins100NCAA on Apr 29, 2008 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
ND
Why are there "ND only" rules in the BCS if ND didn't insist on them. I doubt it was because of their storied history and fun loving nature.
Since when does a school like UCLA need ND to highlight their program. With or without playing them the last two years will have no impact on how far CRN takes them. Do you think Michigan needs a game against ND to maintain their popularity?
As one who does not live in the past, I don't need to get over them ending our winning streak. I did that not too long after it happened.
There is no grudge to hold, they don't deserve special rules. They are not better than anyone else and should play by the same rules.
BTW, their arrogance was noted in a link earlier in this post by another.
Hmm
First of all, ND has laid more beatings on our enemy than any team precisely in the spot where it hurts those football loving bastards the most. Sorry, I love ND football and the last two years in which we played them were difficult for me. Glad it is over.
The Yankees? THE YANKEES? As one comedian said: Cheering for the Yankees is like going to Vegas and cheering for the house to win. Dodgers forever. Down with the pinstriped punks.
by Bruins100NCAA on Apr 29, 2008 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions
My Proposal
End of the year, the top 12 ranked BCS teams, regardless of conference standings, qualify for Championship Series.
First weekend in December, heres's your matchups, with teams ranked 1-4 home with a bye.
- 5 plays host to 12
- 6 plays host to 11
- 7 plays host to 10
- 8 plays host to 9
This gives the Boise States and Hawaiis of the world, the chance to win a championship. Also, if a team like SC is undefeated (No. 1 BCS), and UCLA is 7 (having only lost to the homos across town), we still get in and get a chance for revenge. Plus, we keep all the other crappy bowls for the non-top 12 teams. Everyone is happy.
However, if you want to make it 16, then match up like above on the first weekend in December, with 16 vs 1 (host) etc., etc., no byes this time. Once again, the eight winners matching up against each on New Years Day with two-semi games and National Championship the following week. This gives multiple conferences the chance to have more than one team in the Championship Series.
by broundog on Apr 28, 2008 4:42 PM PDT reply actions
The Good Old Days
I prefer, especially for football where the number of games a team plays each season is rather limited, to go back to the old bowl game scenario. It doesn't result in a consensus national champion, but then, neither will a playoff. However, it elevates the bowls, even some of the minor bowls, and instead of one team celebrating a win at the end of the year, there could be one for each bowl game. This is a much more fan friendly approach. The pre-BCS Bowl Games may not have settled the "Who's #1?" arguement, but it sure made New Year's Day a lot more fun to watch.
How does it not select a national champion
Upsets make sports fun and when an underdog wins a big game on a big stage we do not still reminisce about how they were not as good as the team they beat. How often do we hear ESPN still comparing the Leinart Bush SC team to great national champions anymore? We don't, we hear them comparing past champions to Texas, because they earned it on the field against SC.
I am with you
I think it much better for the team to have as its goal on day 1 of spring practice to play in the Rose Bowl on 1/1, rather than having some ill-defined goal of playing in some BCS bowl game on 1/1 which will be determined mid-December.
I graduated in 71, so just missed the 66 Rose Bowl. But I have since gone to the 76, 83, 84, 86, 94 and 99 games. Even though the last 2 were losses, I would not have traded any of those games for the chance to see UCLA play in the quarter-final round of the playoffs in a location TBD.
That arguement is stale
by UCLAMD89 on Apr 28, 2008 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
No tournament always determines the "best
The basketball tournament is the same way. It's hard to argue that any teams lower than a 2 seed were the best in the country over the course of the season. But when a 3 seed wins, as Florida did two years ago, nobody complains.
by SuperBruinMan on Apr 29, 2008 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I didn't think I would find someone on my side
I really surprises me that so few people support that now that they have seen that all systems are imperfect. I can understand that a true playoff of division winners would come close to being a perfect system, but I still long for the days when the Rose Bowl was always "the grandaddy of them all" and not just the focus on a rotating BCS basis.
Call me old fashioned...
by Dodger Hater on Apr 30, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
The +1 is a joke
The MSM blowhards showed their true colors when the BCS tv package went from ABC/ESPN to Fox. When Disney had it, all you heard was how great the BCS is, true NC, puts all the debate to rest, yada, yada. Oh, but once Fox got it, now, well, maybe the BCS isn't so great after all, and now we need a playoff.
Give me a true NC playoff. It must involve the conference championships with a few wild cards. Keep the computers/polls/RPIs for seeding and wild cards, have a selection committee, regional early rounds which can include bowl sites. 12 teams to start with 1st round byes, then expand to 16. Or just start with 16. Enormous money generated for conferences and the NCAA, not to mention the network(s). Problem solved.
by UCLAMD89 on Apr 28, 2008 9:09 PM PDT reply actions
Stale?
It was simply a subjective viewpoint that as an old-timer I prefer the old bowl system where you have a traditional goal on day 1 (Rose Bowl).
Consider 1998
by UCLAMD89 on Apr 29, 2008 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Rose Bowl
the plus one is not very useful
Our current system doesn't support the top 8 though, so I think the easiest fix it to have a playoff for the top 4.
You use the four current bowls, and alternate the following
New Years Day week games:
Fiesta 4 vs 1
Orange 2 vs 3
Rose choice of whats left
Sugar choice of whats left
NC Game week after New Year game:
Winner of Fiesta vs Winner of Sugar
by silverlakebruin on Apr 29, 2008 9:18 AM PDT reply actions
I have a few brief comments:
2 - Other than for seeding, there would be no incentive to win your non-conference games.
3 - Other than money, there would be no incentive to schedule top competition in non-conference games. Why risk injuries? Non-conference games would become nothing more than exhibition games. You might as well take the Ben Howland route and schedule games mostly against very beatable teams, to improve your record for seeding purposes. Why risk anything in a non-conference game that is pretty much meaningless.
RPI
by UCLAMD89 on Apr 29, 2008 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions

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