To Darren & Russell: THANK YOU

by Nestor on Apr 9, 2008 4:05 AM PDT in Basketball

I am not going go through the roller coaster of up or down re. whether DC, RW or KL will stay or go. I don’t have any inside sources ala Dohn, Pucin or any other beat reporters. I don’t talk to the coaches or players.

However, given what I have read to date and based on my two decades of following UCLA (and the world of college hoops on a day to day basis) I believe we have seen the last of DC, RW, and KL at UCLA. I believe they are gone and it will be nothing short of an absolute miracle if any one of them decides to come back for another season at UCLA.

I will throw up another thread sometime later saying goodbye and thank your to our best center since Bill Walton, but this one is dedicated especially to these two:

Photo Credit:AP Photo/Kevork Djansezian (via ESPN)

Let me start with DC. If anyone here thinks about being ungrateful and selfish and hold a grudge about him not coming back, just think back to at this point last season, when his stock was just as high as he could have gone pro. Instead out of loyalty to Coach Howland and his program, he decided to come back for another season, and give another shot at number 12. He came close and took us all the way to our 18th Final-4 (his 3rd straight) and in the process of doing so gave us moments like the one above (against Stanford at Pauley). Thank you from the bottom of my heart Darren. I believe you are gone. I am going to miss you.

As for RW, again just think back to the time when Coach Howland and his staff was recruiting him out of high school in his senior season (05-06). During the beginning of the year, Howland didn’t have a scholarship to offer him. He didn’t have to wait till Spring of 06 to wait for an UCLA offer. He could have gone ahead and committed to another Pac-10 program. Instead he dutifully waited (because he wanted to be a Ben Ball warrior) and as soon as JF decided to go pro, within days he committed to Coach Howland. RW is a great place in his life. If a family member (and I consider RWpart of my extended Bruin family) had the kind of options RW has in front of him right now, there is no way I would stand in his way of making the decision that is best for him. He has already given us enough in his two incredible years as a Bruin. RW if you are reading this … thank you and we are behind you, and yes we are going to miss you.

So, thank you Darren and Russell. I hope everyone else will join me in wishing these two kids - two of our all time favorite Ben Ball warriors - luck, best wishes, and gratitude for all the memories of last few wonderful years.

GO BRUINS.

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Comments

Great Post

All three have given their hearts and souls to the program. What a great year we've had. Go Bruins!

by 75NatChamps on Apr 9, 2008 6:10 AM PDT 0 recs

I Feel Lucky...

To have seen them play their hearts out for the warriors. Good luck guys. You will be missed on and off the court.

Go UCLA!

by madmaxucla on Apr 9, 2008 6:25 AM PDT 0 recs

and to think

a year ago I wasn't impressed with RW, thinking he'd be a bit player throughout his time here. I'm glad he proved me wrong, and though I wish he'd stay, I'm excited to see him dunking on people and getting paid for it.

by AZBruin on Apr 9, 2008 6:42 AM PDT 0 recs

Rookie all-star game

If they indeed go to the NBA, I hope we can see all three of them plus Afflalo (in the soph team) play. 4 Bruins in the rookie game!

by lildre on Apr 9, 2008 6:53 AM PDT 0 recs

Hate to see them go

but I wish them all the best of luck. They have all given us some great memories.

by joeb on Apr 9, 2008 7:24 AM PDT 0 recs

a bit of "news"

was just watching ESPNews, and they were reporting that some other news agency was reporting that Kevin Love declared for the NBA Draft, but then his mom came out and vehemently denied it. she said that he'd be home this weekend to discuss it with his family like they been saying all along. so any decision of KL going to the draft from now until next week should presumably be ignored.

by deepdish on Apr 9, 2008 7:28 AM PDT 0 recs

Collison and Westbrook are Great Bruins

DC - I'd like to see you stay, as I think you're stock could be higher. But given your knee injury last year, and your fabulous Bruin career, I understand if you leave.

RW - I'd like to see you stay, and I am almost sure that you're stock will be higher if you stay. Right now you are a steal for an NBA team, since you won't likely be a top 10 pick, but you will develop into a great player for that team. So I think you would benefit by coming back, since I believe you deserve to be a top-10 or top-5 pick kind of guy cashing the appropriate check. You are a great bruin either way.

Go Bruins.

by rfirpo on Apr 9, 2008 8:08 AM PDT 0 recs

FWIW - Dan Patrick just reported that

KL and DC are going pro.

--If you are RW, do you want to stay without those two on the team??

by rfirpo on Apr 9, 2008 8:14 AM PDT 0 recs

He'll be the star of the team if he stays

So unless he goes high, he might be better off staying. If I were him, I'd go, because there's a chance he will not improve in the eyes of the scouts. He was able to play with all of the Memphis athletes. When his jump shot improves in the pros he'll be the total package.

by 75NatChamps on Apr 9, 2008 8:20 AM PDT up 0 recs

It would be his team

If RW did stay, he would be the team leader (well may be co-leader when JS gets his form back). It would be great to see him teach and lead the great group of guards we have coming in, like AA and DC did for him. If DC and RW leave, it leaves no one to mentor our great incoming guards.

by shaq on Apr 9, 2008 11:26 AM PDT up 0 recs

TY

for your dedication to UCLA and the joy & excitement that you've brought to us fans. Do what is best for "you" and "you" only. I support your decisions and will eagerly anticipate tracking your careers at the pro level.

by BlueReign on Apr 9, 2008 8:24 AM PDT 0 recs

What Time..

Is CBH's press conference today? Anyone know?

Go UCLA!

by madmaxucla on Apr 9, 2008 8:46 AM PDT 0 recs

1:30pm today

so maybe it will really start around 1:45pm. Try www.am570radio.com to see if they'll carry it live but I suspect they will only do so if they know announcements will be made.

I feel like such a stalker, I actually called athletics for that information.

by freesia39 on Apr 9, 2008 10:38 AM PDT up 0 recs

Thank you so much DC and RW

So many great moments this season, and the picture above is among my favorites this year. Love it. Thank you for embodying the UCLA spirit and being true Bruins.

by freesia39 on Apr 9, 2008 9:24 AM PDT 0 recs

Thanks and best of luck and . . .

. . . be deliberate in your evaluations, please; remember that the hiring of an agent is the point of no return, and please don't forget what a great place it is that you are leaving. As a mere athletic spectator, I don't know what fortune awaits you but I do know how much I wish I had more than the two years of great memories on the most beautiful campus (and in the best public university) in the country.

The Mad Bruin

by lostnacfgop on Apr 9, 2008 10:27 AM PDT 0 recs

It has been great!

What an amazing opportunity as a fan to have been able to watch these two young men blossom and develop into outstanding players at the collegiate level. I'm not sure what the future holds for you both next year or in subsequent years, be it in a UCLA uniform or playing at the next level. But if you continue to mature and play with passion and enthusiasm, the sky is the limit for you both.

Best of luck, whatever you choose to do. Its been a great run over the past few years due in large part to your effort, dedication and tremendous skill.

by Bald Eagle on Apr 9, 2008 10:32 AM PDT 0 recs

Since no one is really saying it

Darren and Russell,

We love you guys. Thank you for all the effort and passion you have shared with the Bruin family. I will always support you and wish you the best whatever you do.

But...

We would go absolutely crazy if you want to stick around for another year.

greg in denver

by gbruin on Apr 9, 2008 11:12 AM PDT 0 recs

hear hear!

by bluestreet on Apr 9, 2008 1:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

I love these 2 guards

Don't get me wrong, but it's harder for me to see these 2 leave than KL. I like KL, great kid, very mature, very talented - but I've only had a year to get to know him.

DC has helped us get to 3 straight final fours. As far as draft status, I see him as a second rounder at this point. My rationale, he has that hitch in his jumper, lacks lateral quickness, he is a good (not great) passer, and he's undersized in both height and weight. Also, if JF was a mid 20 pick, I just can't see DC as a first rounder as JF was better. CBH and the success of his teams make DC a much better prospect though I think he's a second rounder. Taurean Green from Florida was the 56th pick, I see DC as a bit better, but not that much better. DC should stay.

RW had an incredible breakout season. We knew he would be good, but he is already great. As a frosh, I remember him coming off the bench and he always seemed to hit his first shot of the game (sometimes a dunk or lay-up and sometimes a mid range jumper). He is an athlete. Our fast break was really just him when you think about it this year. I think he's a top 20 pick for sure and with good work-outs could go into the top 10. CBH and our new system has helped him draft stock immensely. RW is known to be very athletic and under CBH he has become famous for his tremendous defense - the scouts love this as a bonus. RW as a freshman was not a good defender - CBH taught him that. With that said, RW should probably leave for the NBA. I don't see RW draft status as this high if he went anywhere else for college. All you prospects out there learn from RW, what can CBH do for you! A hell of a lot.

We will miss you, but do what you think is best for your career, you have our support either way.

by shaq on Apr 9, 2008 12:13 PM PDT 0 recs

we are sad to see any of them go

as Mr. MoBruin says, this is our favorite team ever. We don't watch too much NBA, so we will miss seeing these guys play, Russell especially! I picked RW as my favorite at the beginning of the year and of course have always loved Darren. I thank these guys for a wonderful season of non-stop thrills.

PS 8 months pregnant and baby loves "Sons of Westwood" - kicks like crazy

by Mo Bruin 95 on Apr 9, 2008 1:56 PM PDT 0 recs

howland presser

dismissed the LA Times' report of KL and DC leaving. LA Times needs to get their stuff together after that whole Tupac fiasco last week.

by deepdish on Apr 9, 2008 3:24 PM PDT 0 recs

Press conference

Does anyone have a link to the whole presser? I'd really like to hear the whole thing.

by UCLAbruin920 on Apr 9, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

check out the ucla athletics website

www.uclabruins.com

The press conference was uploaded onto the athletics website. I just finished watching it and despite all the uncertainty about which players are returning, I feel at ease knowing Ben Howland is running our program.

by TX Bruin06 on Apr 9, 2008 6:32 PM PDT up 0 recs

No decision yet!

The AP Press has confirmed via SI.com

that no one has decided yet.

by SlyBruin on Apr 9, 2008 4:16 PM PDT 0 recs

UCLA coach Ben Howland said today that if sophomore Russell Westbrook chooses to return to UCLA next season he would be the starting point guard whether or not junior Darren Collison returns.

"If Russell comes back, he is our starting point guard," Howland said at his annual end-of-season press conference. And if Collison were to make the unexpected decision to return for his senior season? "It would probably the same thing," Howland said. "But we'd have more depth."

UCLA's incoming four-man recruiting class features three highly regarded guards, including high school player of the year Jrue Holiday of North Hollywood Campbell Hall High.

Interesting that Howland would come right out and say RW will be the starting point guard, especially with the nation's top PG in Holiday coming in, and (even more interesting)even if DC decides to come back. I know there's been some speculation that RW could improve his NBA stock by coming out as a true PG.

A little strategic chess move by The Caretaker?

"You don't make it to the Final Four three straight times for no reason..Obviously coaching has something to do with it." Darren Collison

by godblesstyus95 on Apr 9, 2008 9:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

Wow

There is no way DC's coming back knowing that he might not even start if he does come back. DC is definitely gone. I'm a little surprised Howland said that, but what do I know.

by bornagainbruin on Apr 10, 2008 12:56 AM PDT up 0 recs

puzzling

I read the presser and was sure someone here at BN would make a diary entry because this does not seem like a Howland thing to say. We can read too much into things but to say that RW would probably still be the starting PG even if DC came back is astounding. Howland then adds that DC would simply give us "more depth." As my prior posts will attest, I'm a Howland supporter; however, it just reads like he is burning some bridges with DC and essentially telling him not to come back. Even if Howland knows DC is not coming back, this cannot help DC's NBA stock when he says DC would not start during his senior year. I don't know. This one just does not feel right. In the end, I know Howland has the best interest of the kids in mind so perhaps someone has an insight into this that makes sense of it.

by Dienekes on Apr 10, 2008 4:41 AM PDT up 0 recs

To me this just confirms

that DC is going pro, and Howland knows it, even though he'll let them talk to their families before making a decision for sure.

by rfirpo on Apr 10, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

Very Surprising

Surprised there haven't been more comments on this one - it seems so out of character for Howland. It's hard to figure how this doesn't reflect badly on DC whether he leaves or stays. Anybody have an idea about why he would say this? I totally trust his judgement, it just seems very bizarre to make a comment like this at this stage.

by TRex on Apr 10, 2008 2:41 PM PDT up 0 recs

Clam down...it was a mistake and later retracted

From the LAT:

Later, UCLA spokesman Marc Dellins said in an e-mail that what Howland meant was, "The way it was this year, where [Collison and Westbrook] shared the point and shooting guard spots, not that Russell would start at the point no matter what. That's only if Russell comes back and Darren does not."

Go Team Go!

by bruins grad and dad on Apr 10, 2008 4:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

The Times

Is just plain terrible now

by blinkshot on Apr 9, 2008 4:19 PM PDT 0 recs

It's officially a circus

no matter which way things turn out, the LA Times has egg all over its face. What a joke.

Of course, Love and/or DC can REALLY make them look bad if........well, you know.

"You don't make it to the Final Four three straight times for no reason..Obviously coaching has something to do with it." Darren Collison

by godblesstyus95 on Apr 9, 2008 9:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

Truely Awesome

It was really fun to watch these guys play the game. They were always playing hard, playing fast, and having fun doing it. I really hope they continue to improve and thrive in the NBA.

It's going to be weird to see these guys wearing anything other than Bruin Blue next year.

by Thymoid on Apr 9, 2008 4:48 PM PDT 0 recs

My lasting memory...

I know the following statement will not be very popular, yet I am compelled to say it: DC is a coward. I'm glad DC is leaving school because I never want him to put a UCLA jersey on again. How can all of you gush over a guy that purposely fouled out of his last game as a Bruin because he was frustrated and couldn't handle the fact he was getting dominated by a great young player. I will not sit here and discount all that DC did in his career, and I enjoyed watching him become the player he became, but I am saddened by his cowardly act at the end of the Memphis game and unfortunately, that will be my lasting memory...

by mtrain09 on Apr 9, 2008 5:36 PM PDT 0 recs

Worst comment of the week

Ben called for that foul. At least get your shit straight before you call out players who brought you 3 final fours in 3 years.

by uclaw1 on Apr 9, 2008 6:33 PM PDT up 0 recs

Yeah, Mtrain, nothing worse than a coward

Why don't you tell Collison your opinion of him to his face? Of course, with him being a coward, you have nothing to worry about.

In fact, why don't you put down your real name and real address, and we'll get it to DC somehow. Since he's a coward, he wouldn't do anything about it.

So how about it? Don't be a coward. Be a man (or woman -- sorry, couldn't discern the gender) rather than hide behind any screen name.

And guess what my lasting memory of mtrain09 will be? It will be that I won't bother responding to anything else you have to say, because it's brainless drivel.

by Fox 71 on Apr 9, 2008 6:34 PM PDT up 0 recs

DRIVE BY ALERT

Usually you trolls come out immediately after the games, but looks like this one got a little lost on the way over.

I will leave this up as it is a testament to the stupidity of Drive-By Posters.

Allow some of our finest A capella talent, "Bruin Harmony" to show you the door, mtrain.

Hey, hey, hey, Goodbye!

by Tydides on Apr 9, 2008 7:17 PM PDT up 0 recs

Thouroughly enjoyed that

thanks Ty. I'm constantly amazed by the fun-loving and talent A Capella groups UCLA has featured over the years.

by Allofmybros on Apr 9, 2008 8:24 PM PDT up 0 recs

This has got to be

one of the best smackdowns on a drive poster ever...btw you in this tydides? These guys sound great..

O.A.

by Ollie on Apr 9, 2008 11:18 PM PDT up 0 recs

Nah, I wish

I dabbled in an A Capella group back in High School but these guys blow away what we sounded like. I just have immense respect for these guys cause I know how hard it is to get that sound just right.

by Tydides on Apr 9, 2008 11:36 PM PDT up 0 recs

in my humble opinion

DC deserves more than these guys...might just be me but give me a chillar layout during a game over some singers like this

by dijonplease on Apr 10, 2008 3:35 AM PDT up 0 recs

Amen, brother

Getting the right pitch ain't easy even when there's an orchestra playing, or when someone else ends on the note you're going to begin with. To sing this stuff, as we musicians say, "Acapulco" is remarkable.

by Fox 71 on Apr 10, 2008 5:46 AM PDT up 0 recs

Haha

HAHAHAHA IT'S DANE! Wow funny sight seeing him on this site.

by teis areteis on Apr 10, 2008 9:06 PM PDT up 0 recs

Goodness Gracious Sakes Alive!

I came to this post to add my heartfelt "Thank You" to Darren and Russell, for years of thrills and chills and in gratitude to both of them for putting their hearts and souls into the game every time they hit the floor, and for the immense pride I feel every time I see them wearing my beloved Blue & Gold. To tell them, if you will, how great and high my hopes are for them both, and how they have elevated this game for us, and how I will watch and cheer them playing basketball anytime, anywhere...and I run into...

...you.

I normally do NOT engage in name-calling--ask anyone here--but Mtrain, you, sir or madam, are a complete and total scum-sucking loser from the depths of idiot-land. You are a mouth-breathing, dim-witted jealous little weirdo.

Go away.

DC, Russ--Thanks for all you've given. You are the best of the best, and I'm honored to have cheered you on, and seen your magic.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Apr 10, 2008 3:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

What a ridiculous statement

Of all the people to call a coward you choose Darren Collison? I'm sorry but that is fucking absurd. The guy who is always the smallest kid on the court, who came in to UCLA with no expectations of an NBA career(at least by us) and went on to become an all american and genuine class act of a person? I don't mind criticism when it is called for but to call DC a coward is one of the most ignorant statements i've heard on this board.

by dijonplease on Apr 9, 2008 5:45 PM PDT 0 recs

Uproar

Well, we all see what we want to see. Fault me for being a realist...

I never said I take away anything from DC, I just thought it was a classless way to take the foul and walk off the court. Sometimes you have to take your lumps, and it seemed like he wasn't prepared to. This Bruin run was far different from the last two---seemed like this team felt all it needed to do was show up and the name on the front of the chest was enough. Perhaps if Love spent more time on the treadmill this year, things may have been different.

The Farmar/Afflalo run was magigal, last year was exciting, this year was unremarkable and boring-- like us better as the underdog.

by mtrain09 on Apr 9, 2008 6:46 PM PDT 0 recs

Not to take a cheap shot

but please, please don't use the pronoun us. Based on the kind of held-back nonsense you've been spewing in regards to Collison, You really can't say that you are a part of the bruin nation. If you were, it would be impossible for you to be so ignorant.

by bruin007 on Apr 9, 2008 7:04 PM PDT up 0 recs

"I never said I take anything away..."

"...from DC" and yet you call him a coward.

I am thisclose to pulling the eject lever.

"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008

by Meriones on Apr 9, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up 0 recs

Too Late

I got him first.

We need someplace prominent on the page to display "WE DO NOT TOLERATE CHEAPSHOTS AT OUR SCHOOL, COACHES, AND STUDENT-ATHLETES". I don't think these people are quite getting the message.

by Tydides on Apr 9, 2008 10:03 PM PDT up 0 recs

Ty

read carefully 5 posts down.

"You don't make it to the Final Four three straight times for no reason..Obviously coaching has something to do with it." Darren Collison

by godblesstyus95 on Apr 9, 2008 10:07 PM PDT up 0 recs

This sucks

I hate getting rid of people that don't understand the basic rules. I'll just delete it and hope he gets the message.

by Tydides on Apr 9, 2008 10:30 PM PDT up 0 recs

Unremarkable?

I'll be telling my grandkids about darren's leadership, Kevin's outlets and fundamentals, Russell's DUNKS, and when Shipp happens..

O.A.

by Ollie on Apr 9, 2008 11:21 PM PDT up 0 recs

One of the great things about these times

You can just show them a Youtube of it. They can see it for themselves.

by Tydides on Apr 9, 2008 11:37 PM PDT up 0 recs

Haha exactly right..

I'll be showing them rather

O.A.

by Ollie on Apr 9, 2008 11:39 PM PDT up 0 recs

is this the typical spoiled UCLA fan that

I've heard about all those years? First calling out DC when all he was doing was following CBH's instuctions. Were you there, in the huddles, in the locker room, hearing the plan? Do you even know what its like out there for these guys? Sure he was frustrated. I think the entire Nation was. In that situation Rose was going to handle the ball or pass it back and forth to the guy with 3 first names, and burn clock. Could UCLA afford that?

Next to call out Love for not spending more time on the treadmill. Wow. You think that weight helped him establish position at all? Do you think it helped him body players while playing BenBallD? So you'd rather not have him on the team and take your chances for a magical run I guess. I personally would rather take my chances with these guys. I wouldn't trade Love for any other center in the country and as far as DC I'd put him 2nd behind Rose in pure talent, but would rather have DC anyday, based on not just ability, but heart and sportsmanship. He is a true Bruin unlike someone else in this thread.

by popopapa on Apr 9, 2008 7:07 PM PDT 0 recs

DON'T feed the trolls!

'n.s.

by dokein on Apr 9, 2008 7:15 PM PDT 0 recs

Speaking of c-ya's to scum

Seeya OJ2, you sure did elevate their program!

by blinkshot on Apr 9, 2008 7:51 PM PDT 0 recs

DC Foul

The kid was worn out physically and emotionally. Made a dumb foul. Simple as that.

Even though Ben himself said the leaving school reports are false, they're gone.

NBA's the goal of every kid who plays college basketball. All the best to DC, RW, KL.

All the best to LMR, I'll miss him the most.

by Rich1996UCLA on Apr 9, 2008 9:49 PM PDT 0 recs

I agree that no one should take

cheap shots at DC, who is a great bruin. And I don't think mtrain phrased his comment well, and he certainly was way too inflamatory. I completely disagree that Collison is a coward.

However, given the amount of time left and the way the game had played out, when I was watching the game, I thought DC was purposefully fouling b/c he wanted out. I don't blame him, and I don't hold it against him. DC is an emotional kid, and he had an extremely tough night. But I thought he was fouling to leave the game when I watched the game, and I still think that.

A very similar thing happened to another player against Gonzaga two years ago. Afflalo had had one of the worst nights of his career, and UCLA was down big. Afflalo then had this crazy defensive set where he was going crazy pestering the offensive player, and everyone knew he had four fouls, and anyone with half a brain could see that he was almost trying to get a foul called--his arms were flailing and he was risking everything for nothing. In that case, however, the ref (by a miracle) didn't call the foul, Howland immediately yanked Afflalo, Howland talked to Afflalo, Afflalo came back in 3 mintues later, hit a three, and the rest is history.

Bottom line: Neither Collison nor Afflalo are cowards. Not even close. But I think both players were trying to foul out of frustration and emotion. Collison's was worse in my opinion, because it was lazy.

Anyway, that is my take. I don't put much stock in the fact that Howland was yelling to foul. There was A TON OF clock left--and YOU NEVER have arguably your best player foul out in that situation. That is doubly true where Howland made the decision not to bench DC in the first place (which I agreed with). Howland will always protect his players, and that's how I read Dohn's note on the issue.

Could Collison have just been confused--yea, maybe. But I think he did want out of the game, and I think that's why he fouled. That's my opinion having watched almost every college game he has played in. But, and here is the important part, I don't blame him for it. It was an incredibly emotional and painful and tough night for DC--and sometimes a player's had enough. Would I have done anything different if my last college game played out like DC's. No, probably not. That stuff happens.

by rfirpo on Apr 10, 2008 2:35 PM PDT 0 recs

Didn't Phrase his comment well? Lazy???

d'ya think that might be just a bit of an understatement? And calling DC lazy? Maybe also not phrased too well?

Might it not also be possible to look at DC's foul as heroic? Perhaps DC heard Coach Howland's call to foul and figured since he wasn't having a great game, him fouling would hurt the team the least.

Do I know that to be the case? Of course not - there is no possible way I could. The point is, that unless you are Darren Collison, there is no possible way you could know either. You have no idea what he was thinking at the time or even if he was thinking as opposed to just acting reflexively.

I find it ridiculously presumptuous to ascribe motives to DC's actions without any way of knowing what he was actually thinking then, based on those assumptions, to pronounce him lazy (or, as in the case of our previous drive-by poster, cowardly).

At the very least, until there is factual evidence to the contrary, DC has more than earned the benefit of the doubt on this one.

by snorkeldorf on Apr 10, 2008 7:55 PM PDT up 0 recs

I hear you.

That is just my opinion of how I saw things. I agree it is presumptous, but I drew a conclusion from watching the game and knowing that these sorts of things happen in tough situations. And there is no benefit of the doubt needed to be given in my opinion, because I don't think he's a bad guy for letting his emotions get the best of him.

And I never called DC lazy. I called "it" lazy, meaning the play/foul (and it was in my opinion. It was one of those obvious slap fouls that are called almost everytime.

Anyway, I think it is perfectly fine to disagree with my take, and yours is a fine one.

The only thing I disagree with is your underlying premise that, assuming I was right, it would mean DC is a bad guy or exhibited a character flaw. I really don't think bad of DC at all or think this was some scar on his record. It's just one play.

by rfirpo on Apr 11, 2008 11:19 AM PDT up 0 recs

Firpo, I agree with Snork

I think your assessment of the last part of the game is wrong, because it totally ignores the character of DC which has been on display for so many games, and it ignores the mindset that Coach Howland instills in his players. Nobody on this team gives up, from what I have seen over the past few years.

If you have facts to support your theory, let's have them. If you have no facts (and the rest of us have none), then I think your analysis of what you saw is flawed in the extreme for the reasons stated above. I think it is very very short-sighted to ignore three years of history and look only at a few seconds.

by Fox 71 on Apr 10, 2008 8:40 PM PDT up 0 recs

I hear you too.

And I don't think your take is off-base. I just happen to disagree, based on the game situation, and my perception of the play in context of the game and DC's tourney.

I think DC's emotions got the best of him in this instance, but I don't blame him and I don't think he's a bad kid. That's just how I saw it.

by rfirpo on Apr 11, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up 0 recs