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Pete Carroll, Tim Floyd, USC and Scandal (3rd Update)

It's that time of year again.

For the third year in a row, I present my updated collection of all of the available information regarding the scandal, criminality, investigations, embarrassing incidents and other assorted black eyes that have plagued USC since Pete Carroll's tenure began six years ago.

When this began in April 2006, it was strictly a football affair.  In the 2007 edition, however, I included the first entry for Southern Cal's basketball team, observing that "it appears likely that there will be trouble with Tim Floyd's program if he doesn't take steps to avoid the controversy surrounding Pete Carroll's program."  Well, he hasn't.  So, there has.

I remain surprised that Southern Cal athletes would be implicated in so many incidents during such a short period of time.  Even recently, I actually began to think that Southern Cal might have taken steps to limit additional incidents, or at least conceal them from view.  Perhaps they have for the football team.  But, clearly, not so for the basketball team.

Keep in mind, since I first posted this in April 2006, the list of incidents has nearly tripled.  One would think that, following the -- and there's no other way to put it -- massive uninterrupted deluge of problems, that USC compliance officials would be like a veteran army, standing ready to take swift and substantial action to prevent further problems.   Unfortunately, that does not seem to have happened.  Rather, Southern Cal appears to have opted for a strategy of calculated ignorance rather than genuine institutional control.

As before, I have endeavored to collect as much information as is publicly available.  Unfortunately, many of the news stories about these issues are no longer available online.  I've provided links where I found them, and relied upon second hand sources to the extent those are reliable.  Also, there are some dead links in the text below that I've left there both for posterity, and so you know that I wasn't making anything up.

I also continue to try to be as objective as reasonably possible.  The facts speak for themselves.  I see no need to embellish.  If anyone has any information that would help make this entry more accurate and complete, please let me know, and I will edit this accordingly.  

Once again, when I first posted this in 2006, a few people disagreed with a few items, but didn't provide any supporting evidence.  I offered to publish any such information, and did so again in the 2007 edition.  To date, however, no one has contradicted a single entry with any credible facts.  That said, if I'm wrong in any way, please tell me.

Finally, many moons ago, I shared my view that everyone doesn't really do it, and talked about those rationalizing mischief at USC.  To this day, some apologists continue to try to explain away the behavior detailed below by claiming that it "happens everywhere."  That's fine.  And, if you can show me a similar list for every other Division I program out there for the same six year period, I'll consider revisiting my opinion.

There are additional allegations swirling around out there, but I have not included anything I could not verify in at least two places.  I've also left out "on the field" misconduct, including various stories about blatant personal fouls and possible cheating.  Again, please provide any (verifiable) information or links you may have in the comments section.

Finally, let me address something that comes up every year.  As I've said above, this is a list of "scandal, criminality, investigations, embarrassing incidents and other assorted black eyes" affecting Southern Cal.  It's broader than just criminality.  So, dearest Southern Cal apologists, please spare me the arguments about how something above isn't really a crime, even if many of the items above do involve serious, sometime violent, criminal behavior.

GO BRUINS.

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beautifully done!

should be a permanent link on the site, updated as time goes on.

this “win at all costs” mentality that they have will eventually bite them

by glassbruin on May 15, 2008 7:50 AM PDT   0 recs

Make it a permanent link

I always have to look for this post to see if I recognize a name from before every time I see a new story that belongs.

by Rhapsode on May 15, 2008 7:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Outstanding!!!

As Joe Friday would say “Just the facts.” and this is just the facts. No emotion, no invective, just outstanding research and reporting.

Why must one go to a blog to find such a straightforward compilation of empirical data that suggests that there is no “institutional control” at sc?

And, if everyone does it, why aren’t there similar powerful compilations pointing at us? At other schools?

The answers are clear. No everyone does it and the MSM and NCAA don’t have either the courage, skill, or incentive to do what you do, every year.

Menelaus, you and your work make this place special.

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 15, 2008 8:16 AM PDT   0 recs

That's very kind

And it means even more coming from someone like you, who is as much or more of a reason that this place is great.

by Menelaus on May 15, 2008 9:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i didn't see the ecstacy distribution

wasn’t a Carroll player arrested for having hundreds of tabs of e in his dorm room? did i just miss it? the list is so long, its hard to keep track…

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on May 15, 2008 8:30 AM PDT   0 recs

silverlake

I seem to recall you post on other UCLA boards (was it BRO?). If you do, you should share this link with everyone. All Bruins should be united on this (and not hold any grudge from Dorrell era).

by bluestreet on May 15, 2008 8:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If Menelaus is cool with it

I will. I think he might post on BRO as well though. I don’t know…

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on May 15, 2008 9:00 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good stuff, M

I found the following sort of interesting:

“On April 26, 2006, USC quarterback Mark Sanchez was arrested for investigation of sexually assaulting a female student earlier that same day. Sanchez was released upon posting $200,000 bail, and was ordered to appear in court on May 17, 2006.” (Emphasis added.)

Who posted bail? As I understand these things, the bail bond is 100% collateralized (i.e., someone’s house), and the bond premium is very high – maybe 10%. If those assumpions are correct, then someone put up $200K or a house, and paid $20,000 to a bondsman. Now that would not have been a problem for me to put up when I was in college, of course. I would just ask the butler to call pater at the compound and ask him to advance my next week’s allowance. Oh, wait. I didn’t go to justsc. I didn’t have $20, let alone $20K.

So who posted that bond? Is that a matter of public record? And can any of our smart computer people access that?

by Fox 71 on May 15, 2008 8:41 AM PDT   0 recs

To Quote Inspector Renault, "I'm Shocked"

I am not surprised that a major college athletic program has interminable off the field problems. After all, doesn’t winning justify everything? However, I am wondering why this post is included on a UCLA centric blog. Would the same level of effort be applied to track another school’s foibles if that school was not our principle rival? Please don’t misinterpret my comment as condoning these activities. I just don’t think Bruin fans need to be $c’s conscience. Itemizing $c’s misdeeds does not make our program better. I like the John Wooden philosophy of being the best you can be and not worrying about your opponent.

I am sure some will argue that $c is not being held to a comparable standard and, therefore, the playing field is not level. Unfortunately, that’s life. Let the fools at $c delude themselves into believing their program is superior. They can have their fantasy world. I would prefer to revel in all things UCLA and celebrate all the good things that are happening to our program (Championship 101, three straight final fours and the number one incoming freshman class, the new era in football, etc.). The only time I want to hear about $c is when they are on the losing end of any contest (athletic or academic) played against the Bruins.

by Bruin77 on May 15, 2008 8:48 AM PDT   0 recs

If the Bruins are not checking the TrOjans

Who will?

I am sorry Menelaus writes a great post itemizing all the sordid details from cross-town, which is not being covered by the MSM and you come here whining?

If you want to write something then post it.

Let me ask you something – are you paying Menelaus, Nestor, Tydides and others to write for you? You come here as a guest enjoying their content and the only thing you can do is just whine.

Sad.

by bluestreet on May 15, 2008 8:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Two Points

First, you can characterize my post as a whine; I would call it an alternative perspective. I thought that was one of the purposes of a blog, the exchange of ideas.

Second, if this information is not being exposed in the MSM, where did Menelaus get the detailed level of information for this post? I think your point is the MSM is not taking all the individual events and conflating them into an indictment of the $c athletic program. If that is your point, you are wrong. Look at the stories at WWL, SI, the Daily News and others (sorry I don’t have time to provide links, but Nestor put up a really good one this morning written by Paul Oberjuerge). $C is not being taken to task just for the Mayo situation, but the Mayo situation is being used as a jumping off point for other problems at $c and college sports, in general.

I just read the following comment in article discussing the political process. The article noted that instead of focusing on politicians’ policy differences, guilt by association and straw man arguments are used to win elections. I think this is analogous to UCLA fans’ focus on the problems at $c: "The process is the process, the game is the game. And you can spend your time exposing how flawed the game is, or you can spend your time winning it." As screwed up as $c is, what does that have to do with UCLA? Let’s be the best we can be and let the fools across town deal with their soiled house.

by Bruin77 on May 15, 2008 9:40 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wrong

You write:


Look at the stories at WWL, SI, the Daily News and others (sorry I don’t have time to provide links, but Nestor put up a really good one this morning written by Paul Oberjuerge). $C is not being taken to task just for the Mayo situation, but the Mayo situation is being used as a jumping off point for other problems at $c and college sports, in general.

So far all we have had is WWL column from Forde, SI column from Wynn who are speaking out for the FIRST TIME. Wolf on DN provided commentary but never got to the hear of the issue. No one to date has really grasped the systematic pattern of problem at SuC. So you are wrong to say that MSM is covering the big picture sufficiently. They are not.

And beating SuC has everything to do with being a Bruin. If you don’t see it that’s fine. But it is pathetic on your part to put downt the efforts of blogger on BN who are using their spare time to expose the evil empire. You may not appreciate. But I and many others over here do.

by bluestreet on May 15, 2008 9:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The genesis of this...

...back in 2006, was a simple proposition.

At the time, a number of scandals came up across town, and some people claimed that all universities were the same, that “everyone does it” and that some kind of moral equivalence existed between all schools. That didn’t seem consistent with the facts. (By the way, your post, which lumps together all “major college athletic program[s]” seems premised on that same sort of thinking, though I may be reading too much into it.) So, I ran a number of searches on both USC and UCLA (so, yes, I spent equal effort). I wanted to test the hypothesis.

What I found was that USC had a list that was both longer and also contained items of much greater severity. My findings also revealed that USC was less likely to punish misconduct responsibly. Afterwards, I posted it. And here it is today, two years later.

And I’m sorry that you don’t want to hear about this. I suggest you don’t read my posts. Or that you read my many other post celebrating UCLA athletics.

by Menelaus on May 15, 2008 9:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No one is forcing you to read us

If you don’t like what we are writing, then don’t read us.

If you want to contribute to this community, write about something else, then step up.

If you want to whine about what we are writing (and yes your comment came across as pure whine), do it somewhere else.

Thanks.

by Nestor on May 15, 2008 9:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

great stuff...

the ONLY thing that I think doesn’t deserve to be on there is the Sanchez sexual assault accusation. I say this only because video has shown Sanchez to be at practice at the time when he supposedly committed the crime. The girl obviously just didn’t like him and wanted to pin something on him….and that doesn’t speak too well for his character does it?

That being said, there are probably over 50 incidents on here, and I only see 1 that SC people could argue about. Quite a rap sheet Carroll and his boys have created…

by bucknellbruin on May 15, 2008 8:54 AM PDT   0 recs

Here's the thing

I’ve heard a million different stories about Sanchez. Very, very few are backed up by any facts. I’ve heard everything from that the guy did it, to that the girl was bullied into making false charges by a religious mother. So, I posted the facts, nothing more or less.

If you have any facts, including a link to this video or a report discussing this video, please let me know. But, and I mean this respectfully, I’m sure you’ll understand that I just can’t take your word for it.

by Menelaus on May 15, 2008 9:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sanchez

I don’t know whether he committed the crime or not. He was not prosecuted because the decision-makers concluded that there was insufficient evidence to warrant a trial. I have seen nothing to suggest that Sanchez sued anyone for false arrest or false imprisonment. The presence or absence of litigation doesn’t really prove whether the sexual assault took place or whether the arrest was bogus. In fact, all I know about the incident is what I read here in the BN.

What still stands out to me is that he had to post $200,000 bail. That’s a LOT of money. When I was in college, $20,000 was probably the equivalent of $200,000 now, but even then I could not have posted the bond, even with my parents’ house going into the equation. So who posted the bond? The Sanchez family? I don’t know about their financial situation, but unless Sanchez pere is a left handed pitcher in the big leagues, it would be unlikely that they have that kind of money sitting in their cookie jar. So who posted it? The athletic department? Some alum? Three wealthy and influential alumni? Cheatie Petie himself? But if the family actually posted it, where did they get the money? And did they just eat the bond premium? To me, that’s as big a story as whether this nice, upstanding young trOJie acted like the other guys discussed in M’s column.

by Fox 71 on May 15, 2008 10:17 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

More damaging than a wooden horse

The football and basketball teams are setting fire to their own school’s reputation, sketchy as that already was. In isolation, one might dismiss each incidence as “just one misguided kid in need of direction,” but this mass of indiscretions is deeply disturbing. Doesn’t this school want to recruit and raise good citizens? Or is the behavior on these teams reflective of broader institutional values on this campus? USC has tried to convey itself as some kind of “Ivy League of the West” in recent years with stricter admissions standards, but the underlying culture of academic laxity, narcissism, and perceived privilege does not disappear so easily, whether in the athletic department or among the student body. Beneath the veneer of Heritage Hall, the band, and Traveler’s trot, there’s still a lot of rot. Thanks for rolling out a bonfire’s worth of evidence, Menelaus!

by bryanucla on May 15, 2008 9:03 AM PDT   0 recs

broader institutional values

I don’t know the answers to all your questions, though I have my strong suspicions, and suspect that part of the answer is reflected in Paul Oberjuerge’s post linked yesterday.

by Menelaus on May 15, 2008 9:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As Pat Forde

said on ESPN the other day, “USC has officially become an SEC school in the Pac 10”. As your very thorough, well-documented list shows, they are even worse than that.

Clearly, you can’t spell SCandal without ‘SC!

by godblesstyus95 on May 15, 2008 9:29 AM PDT   0 recs

Very well done

One forgets how extensive U$C’s transgressions are until you read this post. I kept reading, wondering time and time again, am I done yet?

All of these incidents come as no surprise. U$C cares about winning, no matter the cost. The whole mantra of “student-athlete” and “collegiate” athletics means nothing to them. It’s all about just win baby. So, as a result, look at the kind of “student” athlete they recruit: guys with little to no character and are able to go to college for the sole reason they can dunk a basketball or catch a football.

UCLA, on the other hand, recruits guys that are not just great athletes, but men of great character. Look at the future President of Cameroon. There is no doubt he’d still be at UCLA (or Stanford, Cal, or any prominent Ivy) if he was just another 5’9” guy, because he’s earned it in the classroom. KD wasn’t a great coach, but he didn’t bring in guys who embarassed the program (as our favorite wrecking ball in Jacksonville shows). It’s nice knowing our compliance folks are doing their jobs, that our coaches don’t bring in guys of questionable character (and if CBH did by accident, the dude would be gone after one year of being worked hard by CBH day in and day out), and that our student-athletes actually are students and go to class (I had a lot of classes with fellow history majors Ced Bozeman, Quinn Hawking, and Josiah Johnson) (although in fairness, Rodney Leslie and the Ball twins barely ever went to the one class I had with them; but then again, neither did I, and why would one when it was an open-note history final?).

All-in-all, a great post, with tons of information (although it’s the U.S. Attorney, not U.S. District Attorney, but that’s just b/c I do what I do).

by norcald503 on May 15, 2008 9:56 AM PDT   0 recs

In regards to Aboya...

I believe he had previously committed to Georgetown before coming here, so that says something about his academic prowess.

Anyways, that was a great post. It just really annoys me that $C has been getting off the hook on numerous occasions without any sort of serious repercussions (until now, perhaps?) and yet the NCAA buries their nose into Drago’s European basketball career and the relationship between Love and Wooden. Sigh.

GO BRUINS!

by jlegs on May 15, 2008 11:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Great work M

This is a pretty impressive compilation of everything that makes Southern Cal who they are.

by Ajax on May 15, 2008 10:21 AM PDT   0 recs

Beautiful

A thing of beauty, Menelaus. Great work.

by DH91 on May 15, 2008 11:17 AM PDT   0 recs

Should we all email this to Adam Rose?

and ask him whether he will link this on LAT’s “What’s Bruin”?

by bluestreet on May 15, 2008 1:14 PM PDT   0 recs

Great idea

but methinks this list will never see the light of day in the fishwrap.

Formerly UCLA Class of 86

by Class of 86 on May 15, 2008 3:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Great Job

Your typing fingers must be aching from that post, Give them a good soak because i feel you will have to add a lot more in the foreseeable future. What an institution.

by artybruin on May 15, 2008 2:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Incredible

Amazing job. I couldn’t even read all of it, it made me so sick.

by Centric on May 15, 2008 2:14 PM PDT   0 recs

Forgot one thing

If you’re going to also talk about ex-USC players’ idiocy, then you’ll have to include the one about the player who used a derogatory comment towards homosexuals during an awareness event for incoming NFL rookies. I wish I could find the article, but all I remember was that an ex-NFL was talking about tolerance and whatnot and the ex-Trojan asked something along the lines of whether it’s okay to call them fg*ts.

by UCLA4Life on May 15, 2008 2:25 PM PDT   0 recs

Great stuff again

And how absolutely, utterly, and disgustingly embarrassing for $uC.

Formerly UCLA Class of 86

by Class of 86 on May 15, 2008 3:04 PM PDT   0 recs

Nothing embarrasses a trOJan

The assume an entitlement to this kind of stuff. There’s got to be a stronger word than “schnorrer,” but my command of Yiddish is very limited.

by Fox 71 on May 15, 2008 3:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point

The word “chutzpah” comes to mind too. Still not strong enough, though.

Formerly UCLA Class of 86

by Class of 86 on May 15, 2008 4:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

USC - Brandon and Ryan Ting - FALSE steriod accusations

As much as I’d like to see USC go down into flames, there is one allegation that is a blatant lie. Brandon Ting never tested positive for steriods, and neither did his twin brother, Ryan. They have never taken steroids in their lives.

The real reason they both decided to step down was to place their focus on medical school. As you may not know, Brandon and Ryan both graduted in 3 years, and had over 3.80 GPAs and excellent MCAT scores. They contemplated on returning for a senior season (with possibilities of starting) and even pursuing an NFL career. It was NFL or med school. They chose med school and they are doing well at USC med right now. In fact, Coach Carroll pushed them to return for their senior season, and they were seriously contemplating it, but decided that juggling football practices with rigors of med school was not in their best interest.

One last thing, the family has filed a lawsuit against the Times and the writers for defamation. That is why the link to the article was deleted.

I know all this because I personally know both of them and their family, and they are of the highest character.

by shakabruin on May 15, 2008 6:37 PM PDT   0 recs

This is beautiful - One trOJan suing another

Some things are beautiful to watch. Here we have the trOJan Tings suing the trOJan MSM outlet. No matter which side wins, it will be a beautiful thing to watch.

But Shaka, a couple of points. You know the Tings and I don’t. But what I have seen is that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens both deny taking steroids notwithstanding the contradictory evidence. I clicked on the links in M’s report, and the statement is still there that the Ting brothers testified positive for steroids. The fact that they denied taking ‘roids can hardly be deemed conclusive. I have not seen the test results, and the fact that some lab tech somewhere determined that there was a positive result does not necessarily mean that the Tings in fact took steroids.

But let me put it this way. If I had to choose which side of that case I would take, and the evidence was a positive test result on one side and a denial of steroid use on the other, I think I would take the side with actual evidence. (Now the exculpatory language: I would not choose to represent either side. I don’t represent serial child molesters, people who abuse animals, crooked politicians, crooked used car salesmen or trOJans, either the living breathing kind, or the kind made up of newsprint.)

by Fox 71 on May 15, 2008 7:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeap the AP story link is still active

And there is no retraction there. M is going by information available at hand. And the post we wrote back then was done based on specific information at hand.

by Nestor on May 15, 2008 7:14 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Their dad

Wasn’t he Barry Bonds’s surgeon? High character indeed.

by SuperBruinMan on May 15, 2008 8:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you have a link?

or specific citation proving that the LAT ran a correction to their report? The AP story is still up. Menelaus’s post also linked to a specific AP article. And there is no correction in it.

I think we need specific citation/link showing the allegation against Ting brothers were a blatant lie.

by Nestor on May 15, 2008 7:12 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs