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Something Disconcerting About Kevin Love ...

It's not secret I have been a huge fan of Kevin Love ever since he committed to UCLA.

I made a point of enjoying every minute of his only year in Westwood, which by all account was a memorable and successful one, given the accomplishments from this past season.

I was not surprised one bit when he announced his decision to enter the draft and honestly I still don't harbor any ill feelings from his Dad's recent remarks (unless they develop into a concerted talking point).

However, there was one aspect of the Love story that bugged me a little when report came out that (to no one's surprise) he had hired an agent. It was this detail that I had found a little disconcerting:

Love, an all-American and the Pacific-10 Conference player of the year in his only season, added he is no longer attending classes.

"I have to actually sign the papers to get out of school because I have a few (endorsements) on the table where I can actually start making money," Love said. "When am I signing with an agent? As early as Tuesday. It's just getting all the paperwork together. I'm going with Jeff Schwartz. He has Jerryd Bayless already, and Paul Pierce."

I have not seen this report of him not finishing his classes confirmed from another source yet. If someone else also reported that Love is not finishing up school, please make sure to post it in the comment thread. This is why this story is worrisome. Again from Dohn:

Since writing Kevin Love is withdrawing from classes and hiring agent Jeff Schwartz, I've received a number of inquiries about how this effects UCLA's APR, the dreaded formula used by the NCAA to ensure schools are doing their best to keep kids focused in the classroom.
After doing some research, Love withdrawing from classes does negatively impact the APR. But UCLA's APR four-year average is high enough (968) that it will not trigger any
scholarship penalties. The ninth week of the quarter begins Tuesday, well past the time he would have had to withdraw to not affect the APR.

Again so far this story has only been tracked by Dohn. If someone else has verified that Love has indeed dropped out of his classes to cash in on his endorsements (which I imagine could have been signed after finals week), then I find that a little disconcerting.

I am not naive. I know how the world of prep recruiting scene/AAU and college/NBA world works. But to me it means a lot when a kid at least finishes his first year at UCLA. Given the exposure and opportunity UCLA basketball program has provided Kevin Love, I don't think it's much to ask from him and his family to make sure he at least finished his first year in school. So this report from Dohn is a little disoncerting.

If this turns out to be true, needless to say it will be a very disappointing end (at least from my pov) to Love's 'career' at UCLA, especially if it someway negatively impacts the over all academic standing of Coach Howland's program. It will be interesting to see if there is any more follow up information to this story.

GO BRUINS.

 

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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quarter system

I’m not sure of the exact number, but it certainly seems like 95% of the schools in America are done the first week of May. Not UCLA.

Then again, UCLA football always gets 4 games before school starts.

Pros and cons.

by TheTJCummingsEra on May 26, 2008 4:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

well

Well I read that the last time the article it came out and it definitely didn’t sit right with me. And thats why I feel his legacy it will all be up to what he does after he leaves the school and how he leaves it. AA has been the quintessential Bruin, but Love? That remains to be seen

by blinkshot on May 26, 2008 4:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Surprised? No. Disappointed? Maybe.

If this is true, it should come as no surprise to anyone that KL is not attending classes.

On BN, we’ve had at least one story and video about the all out training and eating program that he has undertaken to make himself ready for the pro’s. IIRC, he is training 5 hours a day and it wasn’t clear to me that he was doing it locally.

Clearly, his priority is the same as all one-and-dones—he’s getting ready for the draft. In that sense, he’s no different from all the other first year guys, including OJ2.

As I’ve written before, I hate the one-and-done rule and would not allow it were I the grand pooh bah.

But, once a coach decides to take he risk by recruiting players who are likely to leave after one year, he also runs he risk that it will have an adverse, long-term effect on the program.

I can’t be upset with KL. He did exactly what we knew he would do. He played his heart out for us, was a very good citizen, and left.

I am upset with a system that condones this. (See my previous posts on the topic).

Surprised? No. Disappointed? If it is true, yes. Why? Because he said school was important to him. Had he not said that, he’d be like all of the others. I thought he was different.

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 26, 2008 4:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm definitely disappointed

if for no other reason than he should at least be able to finish his first year of school with only 2 weeks remaining. Sure, my first year took some adjusting to as it did for probably all of us, but I remember it being difficult because i wanted grades that were slightly higher than passing. If I was content to get C’s and pass through my first year though, I could have done that easily.

by Tydides on May 26, 2008 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

May be its a non issue?

I tried to chose the title of my post carefully. Instead of using the word “disappointing” I used “disconcerting.”

I wonder if there is any way to find out whether Farmar and Afflalo finished their second and third year in school when they were going through the process. In AA2’s case we have read how he is working on actually finishing up his degree. So perhaps we should wait till we get more info.

But still it was a little jarring for me to read how Love was not finishing up 2-3 weeks of school so he could close the loop on some endorsements. Then again the report so far is just coming from Dohn who has a track record of stirring up controversy.

So it could be worthwhile to hear something directly from UCLA sources(coaches/ath dept officials) on this issue before we reach a conclusion.

by Nestor on May 26, 2008 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For me

the difference is that Farmar was in his second year (and was probably taking third year classes, as people have said he was on course to graduate in three), and AA was obviously taking third/fourth year classes when he declared. I think we can all agree that there is an increase in difficulty between first year prerequisite classes and upper division courses.

by Tydides on May 26, 2008 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Great points.

It just sounds a weird for a sure fire first rounder like K Love to not finish three weeks of school so he can case in those endorsements.

Love sounds a like a very smart kid. I think someone like him could have probably cruised through last three weeks of freshman year classes by going to some review sessions and take advantage of the tutoring opportunities (available to athletes) and get by with Bs and may be Cs. To just w/draw from school completely … as 66 said I thought the kid was a little different.

by Nestor on May 26, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And bear in mind...

...that student-athletes pick their classes before the rest of the undergraduate population, so it shouldn’t be very hard to get through freshman year when you only need C’s and can cherry-pick your classes. Being a solid former North Campus guy myself (History & Political Science, ‘05), I can’t imagine it would be very hard to cherry pick a bunch of soft poli. sci., history, comm., or other North Campus class and wing a C in it.

Hell, I know the Ball twins managed to do that in a few history classes by showing up twice (once for the syllabus and once for the final) (perhaps because they were very smart; or perhaps, more likely, because those North Campus classes aren’t that hard).

Just a thought.

by norcald503 on May 26, 2008 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scene:

Fall 2001, History 147A: Civil war and reconstruction, 5th week midterm
Professor has apparently been given special blue books for all the athletes in the class
Professor: “Jason Kapono??? Jason Kapono??? Kapono??? Is Jason Kapono here??”
me: “huh, Jason Kapono isn’t in this class”
Jason Kapono walks in and gets his bluebook
me: “holy shit, Jason Kapono is in this class, nice of him to show up for the first time”

by TheTJCummingsEra on May 26, 2008 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Winter 2003

I forget which history class, but it’s the day of the midterm.

“What the, what’s with all the big dudes in the hall? wait… why is Jason Kapono here? He’s in this class??”

by freesia39 on May 27, 2008 1:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spring 2004

MCD Bio midterm, I say Dijon Thompson, Mike Fey and Brian Morrison for the first time, hanging outside the lecture hall, waiting for the previous class to exit.

by bruinhoo on May 27, 2008 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, they were there?

The midterm when the fire alarm went off in the middle and they voided the results?

I know I used to see Fey on Bruinwalk all the time. He as impossible to miss.

by Tydides on May 27, 2008 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty sure about Fey,

though considering how noticeable Fey is, I should be more certain. Dijon and Morrison were definitely there.

This brings to mind my first Michael Fey memory. Black Sunday 2003, seeing him attracting the attention of multiple young ladies on the dance floor of Sigma PI (iirc). Not until Mata’s trip to Maui last season did I see a UCLA Bball player put down such fine game.

by bruinhoo on May 27, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defining commitment...

...in this day and age is difficult. I understand, and appreciate, that the huge salaries available to young athletes are what drives many, if not most, of them. Obviously, KL has pointed toward the NBA since he was a little kid and I rather doubt that he grew up, shooting baskets in the driveway while fantasizing that he was scoring the winning basket for UCLA in the final game. Now he’ll don a jersey that might or might not mean anything to him other than the hefty paycheck he’s getting. Good for him.

I don’t know what Coach Howland offers to his recruits. It might simply be top-flight coaching and direct connections to the NBA. CBH might include some academic information for the parents – if THAT’S what they’re interested in – but I suspect that no promises are made, either by Coach or the student-athletes, regarding a time commitment. Athletic scholarships are worth a great deal of money at this level. The access to training facilities, room and board, tuition, athletic gear, and more, represents a commitment of resource made to the student-athlete that is, these days, set aside with little thought by the student-athlete when they are about to become wealthy young people. And as realistically unreasonable as it is, my wish would be that potential UCLA student-athletes make a commitment (NOT one and done) of at least two years to the program, with a dedication to completing their degree program in the ‘near future.’ While I realize that UCLA would miss out on a lot of talented young people, I would rather that all of our student-athletes commit to completing their university education before moving on.

UCLA - the finest public university in the world!

by SecondGenBruin on May 27, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm no expert on the APR

But it seems likely to me that dropping out now wouldn’t hurt the APR any more than waiting 3 weeks to fail all his classes. Why he couldn’t go to class at all, that’s another issue entirely.

by jaffa on May 26, 2008 5:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's once and for all

never again mention Love and legacy in the same breath. Love is no more legacy than, say, Ariza. Once the 2008 season starts, all attention will be on what Morgan will do, and not what Love has done.

It seems Love is no longer dwelling on UCLA, and we likewise should no longer dwell on Love. Thanks for a few good games, good luck in the NBA. Adios.

by bluegold on May 26, 2008 8:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

no ill will

I have no ill will toward KL and I don’t blame him for dropping out of his classes, assuming he did. I blame the system for penalizing the school after forcing an otherwise NBA-bound player to play a year in college and then trying out for teams when classes are still in session.

The bottom line is that KL signed up to be a bruin, put in his time, and now he has moved on. We all knew that would happen and we accepted him into the program knowing that it would happen. It’s the same with Jrue Holiday, who is also likely to leave after one year. Even so, I want him to be a bruin, just as I wanted KL to be a bruin.

I don’t think we should criticize anyone that suits up in a UCLA jersey, so long as they are playing within the rules and within the system. Dropping out of classes to pursue his dream is part of that system. Now… if you want to criticize the system, I’m game.

by UCLAbruin920 on May 26, 2008 9:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I hate that argument

I get what you are saying, but blaming the “system” is sooo overused.

We can agree that the system has flaws. But that doesn’t mean that there are certain ways of operating within the system that might be good and less so. I don’t know what’s going on here, but it would be better, and consistent with one’s recognized obligations within the system, to stick it out for a couple weeks of class to avoid a foreseeable hit to the APR.

By the way, the system also encourages agents and their runners to pay players and just not reveal it until after they are outside of school and the NCAA’s jurisdiction. But, that doesn’t make the payola any better either.

by Menelaus on May 26, 2008 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i see your point too

I know that it’s common to criticize the system, and that the argument is overused, but I still think it fitting here. I’m not sure that I’d compare this with the OJ2 scenario. There was obviously some foul play in that situation and people were purposely circumventing rules—and were trying to conceal it. Here, KL simply opted to commit himself to the NBA draft. That’s probably a result of all the pressure he’s getting to impress teams (especially after hiring an agent… and given his rather intense father). It is unfortunate that he felt he had to drop out of classes, but that’s just the way the rules interact with the timing. We know that’s a possibility with every one-and-done.

My point in the post, which I admit may not have been too clear, was that we shouldn’t take jabs at the guy (or any future one-and-dones). He was a bruin, we gladly accepted him into the program, and we would welcome similar players. Our recruiting is in pretty good shape here, but I don’t think it is good precedent to attack players that decide to focus on going pro after one year.

Having said that, I also wish he stuck it out for a few more weeks to finish off the year. I wish he could have done so without hurting our APR. More than anything, however, I wish the stupid 1 year rule would go away so we get true student-athletes.

by UCLAbruin920 on May 27, 2008 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A few things

First off, the OJ2 reference was just to make a point. Comparing the two is like apples and (Martian) oranges. The point, of course, is that it’s too easy and often wrong-headed to blame the “system,” when the system is inhabited by individuals who are free to do both the “right” thing and the “wrong” thing while still operating within that system.

In the case of KL, I’m not interested in taking jabs at the guy. That said, I think it’s fair to express some disappointment in him not finishing classes and hurting UCLA’s APR. I don’t know what’s gone on between KL and UCLA, but it would defy belief to think that KL didn’t know that his withdrawal from classes would hurt UCLA, or that someone at UCLA, either before the season or afterwards, didn’t ask him to finish his classes. As godblesstyus mentions below, we don’t know what KL promised on his end.

Moreover, I don’t see why KL would really need to pull out of class. He’s a smart kid, and I’m sure he could pass his classes even if he missed a few lectures. And I don’t think there is anything about his NBA draft prep schedule or endorsement timing that compels this. In this case, I suspect it’s just inconvenient, and KL, being busy, didn’t want to bother with it. Of course, you might say that result was compelled by the system. I, on the other hand, think he may have just not made the best choice within that system.

I could go on and on about my misgivings about “system” arguments. I’d also welcome a healthy debate about the best system to replace the current one some other time. Here, however, I just disagree with you that KL is blameless (without unnecessarily bagging on the kid).

by Menelaus on May 27, 2008 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your point is well taken, and I think we’re generally in agreement. I don’t think KL is blameless as he certainly took the easy way out by pulling out of his classes. I was probably quick to jump to the system argument, but I do think the system figures into this.

I suppose I defended KL and other one-and-dones because they are really athletes first before they are students—which is a shame to me. They are asked to be students for a year when they really aspire to be athletes. But, you’re right. As long as they are “student-athletes” they should make the right academic moves and KL’s decision was disappointing.

by UCLAbruin920 on May 27, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough

And I would be naive to think that the system had no impact whatsoever. I think we are on the same page.

by Menelaus on May 27, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is not playing within the system

He is breaking an implied rule – that student athletes should be students during their time that they are using college basketball to showcase their skills to the NBA. If it was ‘within the system’, UCLA wouldn’t face sanctions if people dropped out.

The issue is misaligned incentives – UCLA bears the punishment for players dropping out, but has little/no way of persuading these kids to finish classes if they want to work out all day every day… if the NBA insists on the 1-and-done rule, why not add some NBA sanctions for kids who drop out of school? (e.g. limiting their first contract to the value of the contract of the player who went in the same draft position the previous year)

by britishbruin on May 30, 2008 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blame Society

And not Kevin Love.

They’re the ones who put so much emphasis and spotlight on it that it becomes a multi-billion dollar industry.
We have kids grow up and want to play in the NBA, because of this huge emphasis. In the old, good days, the NBA, now known as ‘the next level’ was more of an after-thought. College should be focussed on more. Keep the students in school and the ones just looking to capitalize and be in the spotlight in the NBA. This is why we need a rule similar to that of college baseball’s.
I hope I am making sense~
Thanks.

by PopnFried on May 26, 2008 10:33 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My rule:

When you give a kid a scholarship, he keeps it for four years. If he stays in school for four years, then you’re great. If he leaves early, then you have one fewer scholarship until his class graduates and you get it back. If you’re lucky enough to get a lot of one-and-dones, you better also be lucky enough to get a lot of four-and-(something that rhymes with four)’s to balance things out.

But that sort of rule would require more cojones than the ncaa has.

by Fox 71 on May 27, 2008 4:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I just thought of the rest of my rule

Once you offer the scholarship and the kid accepts it, you spell out the rights and obligations of each side in a written document which we lawyers call a “contract” (there’s a story behind that phrase which I’ll tell later).

The K (that was for Nestor) would say that the kid is obligated to stay for four years. Then when he drops out of school in anticipation of being drafted, the school sues the NBA for interference with prospective economic advantage, inducing breach of contract, wrongful death (well, maybe not wrongful death, but something just as bad.)

Suing the NBA would surely cause them to rescind their rules and draft kids out of high school. OK, NBA, do it, so what? What does any ncaa school owe the NBA, anyway? Let them draft kids right out of high school. But once a kid and a school have made mutual committments, if the allure of the NBA money causes a kid to drop out, then the NBA ought to pony up and repay the school for the costs the school invested in the kid.

Quick story, which I promise is absolutely true, about “What we lawyers call….” Quite a few years ago, I was second chairing a trial in downtown LA, in front of a judge (who’s still there) who was VERY defense oriented, which was good because we were defending. It was a slip and fall, but a death case, so it was serious business. We moved to bifurcate, which the Court granted, noting that “The last 46 (or 23 or some other big number) of slip and fall cases in my courtroom have resulted in defense verdicts.” I slipped a note to the other lawyer and said we should waive jury. Somehow, about 30 seconds later, the plaintiff’s lawyer decided that it would be desireable for him to waive jury under these circumstances. The judge then said “You may proceed, Mr. Plaintiff.” At which point this kid stood up, whipped off his glasses in dramatic fashion, and said. “Thank you, Your Honor. I’m now going to do what we lawyers call an “opening statement.” It’s sort of a road map ….” The judge’s eyes made a noise when he rolled them back. Everyone else had to bite a rawhide strip to keep from laughing. Two days later the judge granted our 631.8 motion. And to this day, I can’t help saying things like “I’m now going to sit down in what we lawyers call a “chair.”

Hint about the judge. When he talks about a status conference, the word status has a long a.

by Fox 71 on May 28, 2008 4:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Been thinking the same thing

Even tho there’s no chance is south central that this will ever happen, but I’ve also been thinking that having a four year term on scholarships would be the way to go in an ideal world. The only tricky part comes with redshirting and moreso, with transfers. If a player, such as Stanback, decides to leave for another school so he can get more playing time, what happens to his scholarship for the university? If the university recovers it, then peripheral players might be pressured by coaches to transfer so that they can then go out and sign the next latest and greatest (not that this isn’t already happening under the present system).

by insomniacslounge on May 28, 2008 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Redshirting and transfers

How about no redshirting. Kids are supposed to be going to college, not a minor league camp for some pro team. If a kid gets hurt and physically can’t play as determined by someone other than the school, then give him another year and don’t penalize anyone. I’m against redshirting, because it just stockpiles talent.

And transfers? A tougher one. But based on the evidence I have studied (which is zero), I have concluded that this isn’t a big problem. Not that many guys transfer. But if that happens, then the school from which the kid transfers will get its scholarship back as soon as the transferring student’s four years are up. In other words, don’t recruit a kid who isn’t going to stay for four years.

I’m sure there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth for all the reasons you’ve said and a lot of other ones besides. But a hard and fast rule would be easy to enforce, just as the ncaa finds it very easy to enforce the rules against players being paid. And as with that rule, it really only takes a will to implement it and enforce it. So as you put it, there not a chance in south central that it would ever be implemented. And when you come to think about it, if all the sensible rules were implemented and enforced, fans would have very little to gripe about in blogs.

by Fox 71 on May 29, 2008 4:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder

if Kevin broke any promises to Howland by not finishing his classes?

by godblesstyus95 on May 27, 2008 8:15 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a very good question

The other query was whether the UCLA officials from Morgan Center had advised Love of his academic options when he formally declared he was going to go through the NBA draft few weeks ago?

If they did – did they suggest to him that it would be good for UCLA if he just dropped his classes at that point earlier in the quarter so that it would not negatively impact the team’s APR?

Those are questions I would love to get answers to.

by Nestor on May 27, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Cannot Help But Wonder...

why finishing up his freshman classes and pursuing an NBA career complete with endorsements are mutually exclusive. Isn’t that similar to finishing up your freshman classes while continuing to report to work at your job?

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on May 27, 2008 2:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Inconvenient Thruth

of the matter is that to maximize his draft potential, he seems to be working at his conditioning and skills full-time. With the kind of money that is at stake, I can’t blame him. It’s unfortunate that the draft coincides with the end of the school term, but given the same choice, who wouldn’t commit himself fully to giving himself the best shot possible?

bru79 (formerly Calchas)

by bru79 on May 27, 2008 3:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

**“Truth” (oops)

bru79 (formerly Calchas)

by bru79 on May 27, 2008 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

No way I can fault him not going to classes and focusing on getting ready for the NBA. I am pretty sure most of us if we were in the same position would focus on maximizing our draft position with the money involved. Sucks that it will affect the APR, but I won’t hold it against him.

by makenji on May 27, 2008 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

Right now there is a serious question as to whether UCLA athletics department and Ben Howland had requested Love to drop out early in the quarter if he was going to ditch the last weeks to get ready for the pros. If Love was going to drop out all along … he could have done it earlier so that it wouldn’t negatively impact UCLA’s APR standings.

I have heard that there is a good chance that Howland and the AD staff expected Love to finish at least his first year in school given he only had three weeks left in the quarter.

It would be good if a reporter dug deeper into this story and got responses from UCLA officials and Howland as to whether they had requested Love to make his intentions clearly early wrt whether he was staying in school or not since it was going to impact his APR.

I have been the biggest defender of Love on BN. In this case if turns out that he didn’t follow through any request from UCLA AD officials or Howland, it would be extremely disappointing. Not to mention it will (at least for me) cloud all the memories of this great season.

Again a good reporter needs to get to bottom of this story and get a clear picture from Morgan Center.

by Nestor on May 27, 2008 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

what a great idea, fox71.

by jk348 on May 28, 2008 12:20 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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