Phil Steele: UCLA T-6th in Pac-10
In keeping with what has become a bit of a yearly ritual, I made it to the bookstore today (maybe my only trip to a physical bookstore per year) to pick up this year's Phil Steele's 2008 Collegel Football Preview. As I've said before, Steele is a college football machine, who puts together -- by far -- the most comprehensive pre-season preview on the market.
So, while there are a lot of good reasons to be fired up about UCLA football, Steele's 2008 Pac-10 Forecast also helps put things back in perspective. Steele has the Bruins tied for 6th in the Pac-10, behind USC, Cal , Oregon, Arizona St., Arizona and Oregon St.:
6. UCLA - The Bruins have just 9 returning starters and maybe less than that if OB Ben Olson does not return from an injury suffered in the spring. They do have an inexperienced O-line but were an injury ravaged team last year so they have more experience than you would think. UCLA gets five Pac-10 HG's [home games] but still needs and upset or two to land a bowl bid.
As much as I'd like to, I can't say that I disagree too much. And Steele seems to have zeroed in on our weaknesses, including the OL and DB's, which he's ranked as 9th and 7th in the Pac-10, respectively (our ST's are #1).
I won't say much more. Steele's mag is a must have for stat hounds and reality based football fans. You should buy a copy and read it for youself.
Sorry to be a kill joy. Unfortunately, Neuheisel, Chow and Walker have a lot of work to do. And I'm confident that it will happen. But, I also know that this year will just be the start.
GO BRUINS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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As I've said from the day RN was hired
we’re going to be mediocre at best, but this team will not be judged by wins. Give me a team that works hard, doesn’t make mental mistakes and improves from week to week and I’ll consider it a successful season.
by ryebreadraz on Jun 9, 2008 2:43 PM PDT 0 recs
sounds like
moral victory time if I read your post correctly.
by Space_Monkey on
Jun 9, 2008 2:48 PM PDT
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Not a moral victory
This season will not go very well. If everything falls into place, we can win 7 or 8 IMO. That’s the best case scenario. Because of that, I’m not expecting much on the scoreboard, but don’t mistake my expectations for a moral victory. Hard work, a lack of mental mistakes and continued improvement would be giant steps for our program and that’s what I’m hoping for. I want to see the program take steps forward and these are the keys to doing so because the first thing we have to do is stop beating ourselves. It’s more a long term look at things and these are the 3 things that IMO are necessary for our program to start moving forward.
by ryebreadraz on
Jun 9, 2008 2:53 PM PDT
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That's a fair assessment
I think this season will show us more of what to expect in the upcoming years as Coach RN builds up our program. Steele’s analysis is pretty dead on. I think what is disturbing (and I hate to bring up past pain), but if KD was still head coach, wouldn’t he have faced the same predicament? A thin O-Line, another QB controversy, and a pretty brutal schedule wouldn’t have led to many wins this season. The key difference is that I can actually feel the program moving towards a new direction.
Looking forward to the fall!
by Kerckhoff405 on
Jun 9, 2008 3:50 PM PDT
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If KD was still the head coach.....
Steele would probably have us 9th this year.
by bornagainbruin on
Jun 10, 2008 6:59 AM PDT
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6th -- I'd be fine with that
This is a rebuilding year. Hopefully, there won’t be many of them after this season.
But assuming they make progress as the year goes on and look better, I can see myself being happy with 6 wins (which could be 6th in Pac-10). Hell, right now I’d even take 5-7 with a win over USC.
by gilbert on Jun 9, 2008 3:08 PM PDT 0 recs
Wait...
First: what’s Steele’s historical record? I bet it stinks. Comprehensive is big and glossy but is he ever right?
Second: I totally disagree that we’ll win only six or that this is a “rebuilding year”. It may work out that way and we certainly need athletes, but we have plenty of the necessary tools and only need one big win to turn around expectations and easily win at least 8.
by drinkbruinKool-Aid on Jun 9, 2008 3:14 PM PDT 0 recs
Steele
His mags aren’t about big and glossy. They are probably one of the more difficult to read previews since he’s such a sports wonk, if that’s a term. And I’ve now heard the guy interviewed a couple times, and he’s really pretty impressive. So, while I understand the inclination to cavalierly ask about such results, I’m not any less impressed by Steele.
In answer to your question, I haven’t crunched any numbers, but I suspect his predictions have done better than most. As for UCLA, he predicted we’d be 7th in 2006, which might have been close to right had we not beaten SC; and he predicted we’d be tied for 2nd in the Pac-10 in 2007, which we might have been not for some injuries and coaching limitations (and almost were anyway).
Finally, I respectfully disagree that we “have plenty of the necessary tools” or that we’re one break away from winning “at least 8,” particularly with the upcoming schedule. 6 wins, I’m happy. Anything more, I’m differing levels of thrilled.
by Menelaus on
Jun 9, 2008 3:47 PM PDT
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Phil Steele is pretty good
I am also very anxious to see the takes from the guys from Blue Ribbon. They have a great track record … and they do get down to the details.
by Nestor on
Jun 9, 2008 6:41 PM PDT
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Yes
Blue Ribbon is excellent. Those guys do a great job as well.
by Menelaus on
Jun 9, 2008 8:26 PM PDT
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I like Steele's work
in general, it’s very thorough.
But I don’t think predictions are at all possible with UCLA until we know what we’ll have at quarterback.
Before spring, our two best chances to win games were Pat Cowan and Ben Olson. Cowan is now out for the year and Olson has a screw in his broken foot. And even when healthy, neither player was a surefire bet to consistently lead the team to victories.
Behind them are a redshirt freshman in Chris Forcier and a JC transfer in Kevin Craft. The most experienced backup is Osaar Rashaan, and he was fifth string before the injuries.
The one thing that has been consistent in Pac 10 play in the 30 plus years I’ve been following it, is that skilled, experienced quarterbacks win in this league. Even if true blue believers suggest we’re skilled/talented at qb—we have no experience except for Olson and he has been the definition of inconsistent whenever he’s played.
If I read my own post correctly, I’m basically sticking to fact, not opinion: We just don’t have an obvious, talented, skilled, experienced player at quarterback. We don’t even know who the quarterback is going to be, though I assume it will be Olson if healthy.
With a huge question mark at quarterback, predictions are much more like guesses—and if anyone is "predicting" more than seven wins, IMO, their guesses are pretty hopeful.
Go Bruins
by Achilles on Jun 9, 2008 3:25 PM PDT 0 recs
That's right
And even if it’s Olson, as we assume, I’d put a rather large sum for the proposition that he won’t finish the season. I’ll put the over/under for quarterbacks who start a game for UCLA this season at 3, and maybe take the over.
by Menelaus on
Jun 9, 2008 3:50 PM PDT
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"he might have been right?"
“Injuries and coaching limitations?” “If we hadn’t beaten USC?” Come on, why are you making excuses for this guy? Sports predictions are just like stock picks, wrong more than half the time. He may sound nice and make good sports-talk fodder, but let’s remember where he ranks in reality.
by drinkbruinKool-Aid on Jun 9, 2008 5:08 PM PDT 0 recs
Hmm
I’m not making excuses; I’m saying his predictions have been reasonably close. And that’s hard to do when you’ve had a train wreck for a head coach to account for.
Empirically, I don’t know if Steele is “wrong more than half the time” or not, though I suspect you don’t either. And I also doubt you know how he sounds (he a stat machine, not so much a talking head), or anything at all. Listen, I’m sorry that you have such a knee jerk reaction to these sort of people. In any case, I’ve given you my opinion that he’s perhaps the best at his trade, and you are free to disagree.
by Menelaus on
Jun 9, 2008 5:25 PM PDT
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Lame
Coaches have an enormous effect in football, especially in college. Our level of talent may not be as high as some other teams in the Pac10, but if this coaching staff is as amazing as advertised, tied for 6th would mean that we’re saying our talent is essentially the worst in the Pac10. I simply don’t buy it.
KD was bad, yes, but never worse than middle of the pack—and I don’t think you will tell me he coached em UP from their talent level. So he must have had teams of middle-of-the-pac10-talent, and pretty consistent there year to year. Even if this is a down year (which we would expect w/ all the leaving seniors), I can’t feel it’s down from 4th (his usual slot) to 10th. So if it’s a 6th-place team in talent, this staff oughta bring it up to 4th or so.
by jjreicher on Jun 9, 2008 7:52 PM PDT 0 recs
Coaches
I agree that coaching matters a lot, and suspect we will do somewhat better than Steele predicts, though you shouldn’t forget the brutal schedule. In fact, that’s where I think Steele got it wrong last year; he picked us for T-2nd without discounting enough for the Dorrell factor. But, if you go straight by talent, Steele picks us around the middle. I won’t give up all his data, but here are his conference position rankings without identifying which go where (6, 5, 6, 9, 4, 5, 7, 1, 6) (I’ve already given up the 7, 9 and 1). Thus, for this year, I think he’s understating the coaching effect, but we’re mostly arguing around the margins. Again, I’d be thrilled with, say, 8 wins. I wouldn’t be the least surprised, however, if we got less.
by Menelaus on
Jun 9, 2008 8:22 PM PDT
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I don't agree, and I'll use BH as an example
BH took over a program from a lousy coach that had no direction. So is Neu.
BH then had to install his philosophy, process, etc. So is Neu.
BH then had to get the players to buy into it. So is Neu.
BH went something like 11-20 his first year, so it’s not unreasonable to expect Neu&Co. to make a lot of progress with the program and still only win 6 games.
Just my opinion.
by bornagainbruin on
Jun 10, 2008 7:08 AM PDT
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the difference is this
the team BH inherited was 10-19 the previous year. they were awful. the team CRN inherits was 6-7 (and a blocked FG from 7-6). I don’t see why they should be worse than that, 4th place, even with the lost seniors.
by jjreicher on
Jun 11, 2008 6:10 PM PDT
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The difference you selected actually argues in CRN's favor.
KD’s team may have been a blocked FG away from 7-6, but it also had something like 17 starting seniors. This would be a total rebuilding year if KD was still the coach.
by bornagainbruin on
Jun 11, 2008 7:31 PM PDT
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Oddly enough
It’s basically impossible to find the stats on Steele… but there’s a few “formulas” that show the various “experts” on an undefined scale against one another. I wonder if that’s because they’re all terrible? I did find that in ‘05 he picked 52% of the games right… and you can buy his insight for only $400 a season.
And I’m certainly not lashing out at you Menelaus, please don’t take it that way, but scammers like Steele (and high-school athlete rankings) do make me angry. If people want to read it to argue about with their friends or for entertainment value that’s great, but it’s certainly not how they sell themselves.
by drinkbruinKool-Aid on Jun 9, 2008 7:57 PM PDT 0 recs
Picking services
I frankly hadn’t paid any attention to Steele’s “pick” service. I’m not a big fan of those either. I’m just talking about his preview guides, which I think are great. No idea about his picking track record. And, again, from hearing him talk, he comes off as much more knowledgeable, and less scammertastic; though I don’t have any basis to comment on that part of his business. And, don’t worry, I wasn’t taking it personally. I don’t have Steele stock, or Steele living in my attic. :)
by Menelaus on
Jun 9, 2008 8:25 PM PDT
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Steele
how well he picks teams in the pre-season to finish within their league is a lot different than how well he picks teams against the spread and over/unders.
by bornagainbruin on
Jun 10, 2008 7:11 AM PDT
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Wait, did I say $400?
I meant $649! Now tell me that doesn’t make you angry.
by drinkbruinKool-Aid on Jun 9, 2008 7:59 PM PDT 0 recs
No way we finish behind UofA or OSU
while we’re at it, Cal is always good for a win. the higher ranked the better.
Now, I’m not going to get all statistical in my assessment, or provide any proof you can take to your bookie. But Two things have always been true of UCLA football. At least, as long as i can remember. We are never as bad as they say we are, and we are never as good as they say we are. We also almost always start very strong then fade as the season winds down, which can be attributed to a thin depth of top notch talent. What does this tell me?
We are going to beat Tennessee and Fresno State. We might put up our first loss at Oregon. I see the schedule and I see a whole bunch of W’s. There is no team there we can’t beat. Will we win them all? probably not? But we are going to play tough in every game. We are going to play good solid football. We will beat at least one maybe two teams that are clearly better than us. We will lose two maybe three games to teams that we have no business losing against.
We are going to have a good season. We are going to land in the top 4 of the PAC 10. I’m not going to try and convince you. I’m going to let the football team go out and do that.
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
by MexiBruin on Jun 9, 2008 11:10 PM PDT 0 recs
Strong Start
I think this may have to do w/ the way we’ve been scheduling our games, particularly the last few years. We usually have our OOC games first then dive into the Pac-10. So at least 1, if not 2, OOC games are good for a win and one of the early lower tier Pac 10. But this year, we have a pretty tough OOC schedule, so not so much a gimme.
And on top of that, we have no QB protection or QBs for that matter. So, IMO in the end, there is absolutely NO way to make a realistically assess how we finish next year until the beginning of the season. And I'll be happy with UCLA football if we play smart and give it our best shot.
by kidro2001 on
Jun 10, 2008 8:53 AM PDT
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How'd I accidently blockquote?
Does anyone know what I did to get that to happen? I didn’t make any attempt to use any HTML ?
by kidro2001 on
Jun 10, 2008 8:55 AM PDT
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I have no doubt that we will progress
As some folks have already said, I think we will see a tangible difference in how the team plays, prepares and handles itself.
That all said, and I’m not defending Steele, I still wouldn’t be surprise to see this team around 6th in the Pac-10. Maybe I slot them at 4th or 5th, but 6th is certainly possible.
Let’s put it this way, the 6th place team in the Pac-10, in every year from 2002 to 2007, has had 4 conference wins. Every year. You get 5 wins, you get something higher, usually a notch or two higher since there are usually a few teams tied for 4th or 5th (which equates to 6th). If you leave out tie-breakers, UCLA was 6th in 2002-2004. (Note, the numbers change a tic in 2006 when they added the 9th conference game.)
So, where does UCLA get it’s 5 conference wins this year?
Arizona- win
WSU- win
at Oregon- loss
Stanford- win
at Cal- loss
OSU- win
at Wash- toss-up
at ASU- loss
USC – toss-up, but probably, sorry to say, loss
Of course, as you say, we’ll probably win some we should loss, and visa versa.
Outside of the Pac-10, we have Tenn, at BYU and Fresno State. Let’s say we win 2 of 3, being charitable. That gives us 6 wins.
by Menelaus on
Jun 10, 2008 8:59 AM PDT
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Off Topic....
just read that Pac-10 Commish is stepping down after ‘09. I’ll leave it to the BN writers to analyze the impact, but I don’t think anyone has been a real fan. Pac-10 football and basketball need more national exposure, maybe the next commish will make it happen….
by Nakatomi Plaza on Jun 9, 2008 11:26 PM PDT 0 recs
As long as
we are on the west coast it’s going to be hard to get national exposer. Most people on the east coast don’t want to or care to watch a football game after hours eastern time especially having already watched one of their own. And considering I don’t think they want to reduce ticket sales they are not going to make the games earlier.
by Ewdtrey on
Jun 10, 2008 9:40 PM PDT
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ESPN had a TV deal they were going to offer the Pac 10
but the conference resigned with FSN without listening to ESPN. A lot of FSN games are regional and even when dubbed “national,” arent shown in markets where a local NBA or NHL game is on. Yes, we are somewhat challenged by being on the west coast, but there’s a lot more we can do.
by ryebreadraz on
Jun 10, 2008 10:22 PM PDT
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Nevermind.....
just saw it in famposts….. should’ve known to check there first, as always BN had it
by Nakatomi Plaza on Jun 9, 2008 11:29 PM PDT 0 recs
Nakatomi Plaza
Great name, one of my favorite movies.
As of right now we are undefeated until proven otherwise, That’s my philosophy and I’m sticking to it.
by artybruin on
Jun 10, 2008 2:06 PM PDT
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Nak
Agreed, cool name.
Would you believe I was an extra in the final scene?
bru79
by bru79 on
Jun 11, 2008 8:48 AM PDT
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The problem with the stats in the book this year.
Steele doesn’t have stats for these players and their progress under Coach Neuheisel. Yes we know how they performed in 2007, but we don’t know where this rates on their true potential. Will the coaching trifecta be able to elevate a significant number of players to reach their limits in abilities? Or did we see the best they can do last year? I’m sure we all think that talent was being wasted under KD, but how much? This is where preseason predictions get too murky for me. On defense, we will know essentially what we are getting. There is stability there right now. But offense…?
I will accept analysis of stats midseason, that way we know a bit more of what is actually happening.
by isodore on Jun 10, 2008 11:16 AM PDT 0 recs
Success this season depends on a quick start..
..If the Bruins come out quick and surprise a few people (who may be looking past them) then they may start to believe in themselves (adding more to what than RN and NC and DW can inspire) and catch fire.
..saw it the first year Prothro coached his “gutty little Bruins”.
the point here is, we’re not talking the same-old same-old under KD: “coaching harder” and burnishing the post game excuses.
God, it's great to be a Bruin!
by WHP '68 on Jun 10, 2008 1:44 PM PDT 0 recs
I think...
Our O-Line is in trouble this year, although they did improve a lot last yr from the Spring scrimmage till the Fall scrimmage. Even if our O-line starts off good we have no depth. If our team is to get better in the coming years we need more junior transfers for the next 2 years. Winning early helps recruiting. I don’t care what anyone says, its players not plays. The best coaches are good recruiters and the best recruiting tool is success, especially early success.
However I think our secondary is good, especially for what we wanna do. Both our starting corners are good. Everyone knows Verner is a beast and Norris is very similar to Trey Bown, our best CB last year(not as much upside as Verner, but still the best.). Our safteys are not experienced, but they have lots of speed and in Walker’s scheme they don’t need to do a lot of covering.
Last, coming in at 6th in the conference seems totally reasonable to me. We are going to get beat up early by big physical teams in Tennessee, BYU (lots of redshirting Mormons that are overgrown.), and Fresno who plays everyone tough. Frankly we don’t have the depth to overcome lots of injuries especially on the O-Line.
by Ewdtrey on Jun 10, 2008 9:59 PM PDT 0 recs
It all starts...
...with the O-line. I’m in no way a fb guru, but to me what a team can achieve is entirely dependent on the O-line. Sure it’s a team game and to win there needs to be productive players all over the field. But having a great QB doesn’t do much good if he doesn’t have the time to throw, even to very skilled receivers. Running backs need holes. Drives need to be sustained because defenses break down when they’re on the field too long.
Unfortunately it appears that our O-line this fall will not be very strong. The other players, as well as the coaches, will strive to do what they can to overcome it. I will measure progress not by wins and losses, but on how the team is prepared the types of mistakes they make.
Moreover, I want to have fun at the Rose Bowl again, win or lose. We’ll be the ‘dog in a lot of games, but if the players play hard and doesn’t beat themselves, , I’ll be happy.
BTW, the company gave me tickets for Game 3 last night. Lakers vs. Celtics, NBA Finals, luxury suite, MVP Kobe, Nicholson, et al, .... Awesome right? But the fact remains that there’s absolutely nothing like UCLA football.
GO BRUINS!
by haywood nighttrain on Jun 11, 2008 10:12 AM PDT 0 recs
Nice!
Nicholson, Cannon, Beckham, Agnew. It works.
And you’re absolutely right about the O-Line. That’s where games are won and lost. Any smart football coach would rather have 5 great linemen with 5 average skill players (QB, RB, FB, WR x2) than the other way around.
greg in denver
by gbruin on
Jun 11, 2008 3:34 PM PDT
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