Pauley Pavilion and Yankee Stadium
Did anyone watch ESPN's coverage of the last game at Yankee Stadium?
I caught a lot of it -- it was on after the late NFL games ended, but before the Cowboys-Packers game started. They did a whole ceremony on it, inviting many of the great Yankee players and even some of their spouses and heirs to the event. It was all very nostalgic and fun to watch -- like an Old Timers game.
But, I didn't cry or anything.
This morning I caught a couple of minutes of sports talk commentary during my morning commute and the host was sort of mocking how grown men were crying because a building was being torn down. I did get what he was saying.
Personally, I understand a bit of sadness at old Yankee Stadium being replaced and I also relate to the idea that many people are feeling a little melancholy today. I mean, I feel bad when a restaurant I've liked closes down -- our memories are linked to the places we've been.
That said, I definitely do not agree with those who are lamenting the end of old Yankee Stadium and agree with the morning sports host who bluntly noted that Yankee Stadium was outdated and a bit of a dump and other than the fact that it was Yankee Stadium, Yankee Stadium was actually a pretty unpleasant place to see a baseball game. (For the record, no one seems to care that the Mets' Shea Stadium is being torn down, too. It's a dump without the history.)
All of the above got me thinking about Pauley Pavilion.
Pauley Pavilion is the Yankee Stadium of college basketball. More championship teams played in Pauley than in any other venue. The two greatest players of all time -- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (then known as Lew Alcindor) and Bill Walton -- played there and the greatest coach of all time -- John Wooden -- coached there. If Yankee Stadium was "The House that Ruth Built" then Pauley is "The House That Wooden Built."
Like Yankee Stadium, where Nelson Mandela spoke, where the New York Football Giants played, where a pope prayed is not just a baseball field, Pauley Pavilion is more than just a men's basketball arena. The women's team also earned a national title there, as have the men's and women's volleyball teams, and the women gymnasts. The Grateful Dead played Pauley Pavilion, as did Bob Dylan. Thousands of alumni were handed their diplomas inside the venerable old girl.
But ...
It's time for something new.
I think everyone agrees with me on that point,or almost everybody.
What I mean is, it's time for something new, even if Pauley Pavilion must be raised to make room. Pauley Pavilion is, like Yankee Stadium, just a big building made of cement and steel. It's not even grand like Yankee Stadium, there is no facade, there are no monuments or statues. It's just a square building with seats and a court. It is not, UCLA basketball.
UCLA basketball is Wooden, Alcindor and Walton. It's Goodrich and Wicks and Rowe and Hazzard and O'Bannon and Edney and Vandeweghe and Watson and MacLean and Miller. Now, it's Howland and Farmar and Afflalo and Luuuuc and Westbrook and Collison and Love. Soon, it will be Holiday and Morgan, then Lane and Honeycutt.
My feeling is that this program is the best and it deserves the best. UCLA Basketball should be played in a cathedral of sport, with the finest amenities and the most modern technology. I understand nostagia and if the new building contained a room or a display paying homage to Pauley Pavilion, I'm all for it.
But, like the New York Yankees, nostalgia should not stand in the way of progress. Whatever new building is erected would not only replace Pauley Pavilion, but instead its beauty and scope would stand in tribute to Pauley and all that came before.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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I understand
Are they planning on tearing down Pauley and starting from scratch? I think that is a little far fetched to say “it is just a building..” and not UCLA Basketball. I understand your point, but I guess I am old school and would rather have pauley renovated and improved, instead of being torn down and built from scratch. This is a Great Post and should provide more oppurtunity’s to get people’s true feelings on the matter out!
DBalter
by westwood12003 on Sep 22, 2008 12:55 PM PDT 0 recs
I get your point as well
At first I compared Pauley to Dodger Stadium, which I consider to still be one of the best stadiums in baseball. When McCourt considered tearing it down, I was shocked and dismayed. In the end, he decided to simply restore/upgrade it, which made everyone happy.
But reading this, I agree that Pauley is much closer to Yankee Stadium than Dodger Stadium. And while I’d miss Pauley if it was gone, a new, hopefully larger arena would serve the team well. And in response to westdood12003, I just don’t think Pauley could be restored as much as we’d hope. Dodger Stadium was so easy to upgrade because of the dimensions of a baseball stadium and the endless land on which it is built. I don’t think we could do the building or the program justice by trying to simply renovate.
Either way, I’d be happy I think. It just depends on what the administration, coaches, and (future) players are looking for.
by bucknellbruin on Sep 22, 2008 1:57 PM PDT 0 recs
*westwood, not westdood...
sorry i don’t know how i typed that…
by bucknellbruin on
Sep 22, 2008 1:57 PM PDT
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Continuing your thoughts ...
Dodgers Stadium to me is more like Wrigley Field or Fenway Park.
They have something to recommend them other than just their history. Dodgers Stadium is beautiful with great ambiance. Even before renovation it was a great place to see a game. Wrigley and Fenway offer unique dimension and characteristics not so easily replicated in a rebuild.
Pauley Pavilion is not an architectural wonder. It’s not gorgeous from the outside. On the inside, the sight lines are bad, the seats are too far from the baselines and the upper level seats provide really poor views of the game (especially from beyond the end lines.)
The only thing recommending Pauley is the history. If we hadn’t won so much there, had so much history not happened there, we’d be out there with pick axes and shovels trying to knock it down. I don’t want to over use the word dump — that’s for Shea Stadium — but Pauley is not a great venue, except as a nostalgia piece.
A brand new Pauley is sort of analogous to Staples Center. Yes, the Forum is where Magic and Kareem and Worthy and West and Baylor and Chamberlain played and where Riley coached. Sure, Wayne Gretzky skated there. But the Lakers moved anyway and then Kobe and Shaq wrote new chapters in Lakers’ history. (As an aside, Staples is not great for basketball. It’s a hockey arena and I’ve heard Lakers fans lament the loss of the Forum. But that doesn’t change my point, because I assume that a brand new building for UCLA won’t be bungled.)
I guess my emotion is that nostalgia is nice, but it should not stand in the way of progress and nostalgia for a concrete edifice utterly lacking in charm except for its history is not worth being nostalgic for — it’s better to build a state-of-the-art new facility with all the amenities for chapters yet to be writtten.
Go Bruins
by Achilles on
Sep 22, 2008 2:15 PM PDT
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this is basically what i tried to say
you just said it better
thanks
by bucknellbruin on
Sep 22, 2008 2:20 PM PDT
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Concur
Setting aside the interior issues, which have been discussed ad nauseam here, the exterior of Pauley is simply not very attractive and undeniably, for those who wish to argue my first point, the exterior does not mesh with the overall Mediterranean look of the school, especially the quad and the men’s and women’s gyms. I love Pauley because of the history, but if there was an option of renovating vs. teardown/reconstruction, I’d pick the latter, with the caveat that the new Pauley had to incorporate the beautiful Mediterranean look of the original campus buildings that was nicely updated in the Anderson school and the museum of cutural history. The court can be saved and integrated into the new gym.
Of course, it will never happen.
by ucladj89 on
Sep 22, 2008 2:38 PM PDT
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Pauley
I know that Yankee Stadium was having some structural problems, but I always liked going there to catch a game, especially against the Red Sox. I am a Dodgers fan so I dont really care about the AL. Still, if you ever spent any time with Red Sox fans, you would know why people root against Boston teams. That being said, Shea Stadium was much more impersonal, and I do not mind it going away at all, especially if it will expunge the base running problems that the Dodgers had there two years ago in the first round of the playoffs. But Yankee Stadium was loud because it was always packed and the sections were vertically stacked for extra closeness to the action. The seating ran right up to the edge of the outfield (which was the opposite of Shea).
Regarding Pauley, I love Pauley. It is more like a giant high school gym than an Anaheim Sports Arena (which is a professional venue for better or worse). Pauley is much more personal. If you have 100 section tix you can walk down and talk to the cheerleaders before the players exit the tunnel (awesome!) and walk behind the TV announcers or behind the basket to find your seats. I guarantee you that the new floorplan will probably isolate the floor area from the seating, which will end up being more like the Anaheim Sports Arena (or whatever they call it). Sure you will be able to get your 32 oz. Icee/Slurpee from more food stations and the seats will be modern, but imho the old Pauley which rode my bike by each day on the way to Westworld as a kid was the best. I still remember the cheers from the 1970’s Bruins squads echoing outside on game days.
by Deepcut on Sep 22, 2008 2:21 PM PDT 0 recs
Pull off the Band Aid Quickly.....
I heard some of the same comments about Yankee Stadium this AM on the way into work and believe, as you do Achilles, that nostalgia should not stand in the way of progress.
Will I be sad when they renovate Pauley?? Sure. Will it be the same? No. Will it be better? Almost certainly from a pure, live basketball viewing experience.
In my opinion, the sooner the change comes, the BETTER. The longer we wait and wax on nostalgically, the more difficult and painful the transition will become. It is like removing a band aid from your body that’s a bit hairy. Pull it off quickly and the pain is intense but short lived. Pull it off slowly, and the pain is equally intense, but just lasts longer.
So pull the damn band aid off already, Dan. Make all the improvements you need create a new, special venue where many more memories will be made. Just leave Nell and John Wooden Court as is, because that is where the Bruin basketball memories happened. ON THE COURT. Sure Bruin fans will hurt w hen the “old” Pauley is gone. But the longer you take the greater the pain we’ll all have to endure.
Great POST!!
by Bald Eagle on Sep 22, 2008 3:38 PM PDT 0 recs
Local sports venues sans nostalgia
Well, what about the following:
1. The Rose Bowl, with its single entry tunnel, seating that even for good seats, is way back from the field, old, tired, and needs to be scraped.
2. The coliseum. While there are two entries, the last time i was there, it was in the visitor’s seats, and awful. Poor visibility, old and real tired…scrape it.
3. Staples… If you have a good seat it is a good experience…. Real commercial.
4. Galen.. I haven’t been there, but my SC honk friends believe it is real good.
5. Pauley… Not sure a scrape is in order ’ala the others mentioned above, but it definitely needs some major work (devoid of all the “multi-sport” access), make it a basketball arena and a first class one too. It might be cheaper to scrape, although that is usually not the case.
Bill
BillSouthBay
by BillSouthBay on Sep 22, 2008 3:50 PM PDT 0 recs
I think a lot of people are missing the point
I believe that Walking into Pauley should be an experience in and of itself. There’s should be tributes to the greats, a pathway bearing statues of icons, or even of UCLA tradition, maybe beautiful steel or Copper looking championship poles as people approach the sports center. Frankly I believe that given the nature of the UCLA preserving its tradition there should be something for the masses to see, people from all of Los Angeles who come by should understand what it means to see the Bruins play basketball. Excellent post, I’ve wanted to see a much grander and bigger scheme instead of a simple Home Depot upgrade of this palace.
by UCLABRU1 on Sep 22, 2008 4:03 PM PDT 0 recs
Agree
wholeheartedly. If Pauley’s replacement is merely a modernizing of facilities, then we/they will have failed miserably.
The nostalgia and memories of Pauley may not be, literally, in the steel and concrete of the building. Nonetheless, more than the soda-buying, bathroom, and viewing experiences are at stake with replacement of Pauley.
The soul of UCLA basketball is at stake. If “they” attend to the amenities without fully capturing the incredible dramas and personalities that have lived and played within its walls, their attentions will have been catastrophically misplaced.
Walking into the new Pauley should be like walking into a cathedral. I say this with no embarrassment or overstatement, whatsoever. People should be able to loiter and drink in the amazing, real-life story that has been UCLA basketball, if they want to. This kind of fan/visitor experience cannot be delivered with a foyer and a few trophy cases. These tributes need to be woven into the fabric of the building.
by Bruinut on
Sep 22, 2008 6:47 PM PDT
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You know something....
those banners are the only things I really, really like about Pauley.
by ReineSeite on Sep 22, 2008 4:21 PM PDT 0 recs
While we are talking about venues...
Can any of the Bruin history buffs fill me in on why our football team always faces the afternoon sun at home games? It seems like a big disadvantage. The away team always has the sun at their back so it is easier to see what is going on on the field. Also, it isn’t as draining when the sun is at your back. During late afternoon games, the away team gets shade first, a significant advantage during the hotter weather at the beginning of the season. None of it makes sense to me.
I was trying to run to run win loss numbers and point spread by year for home games comparing day and night games but I couldn’t find previous years’ start times posted on the internet anywhere.
I’d like to see them play Fresno State lined up on the opposite sideline this week, but I know that won’t happen. Even if there is some big tradition reason for why they line up over there, doesn’t this seem like a good year to change things? New coaches, etc? Maybe we can do something different in 2009?
by captainqtp on Sep 22, 2008 4:35 PM PDT 0 recs
I never noticed that, but you are right!
Maybe this is something we can campaign the Morgan Center to change? Unlike the renovation/replacement of Pauley, this would not cost them a dime!
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
by MexiBruin on
Sep 22, 2008 8:25 PM PDT
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I believe ...
that the biggest donors sit on the shady side of the Rose Bowl and their preference is to look towards our bench, not at the backs of our players.
The students also belong on the team side. If you moved the team, you’d have to move the students, I think.
Go Bruins
by Achilles on
Sep 24, 2008 10:30 AM PDT
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Donors
shouldn’t drive policy, but we don’t live in a perfect world . sigh If our guys have a better shot to win on the other sideline, which no one seems to take issue with, they should take the other sideline. I wish it could happen that way. Anyone at BN know “somebody” we could take this to for 2009?
by captainqtp on
Sep 24, 2008 3:26 PM PDT
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Pauley Pavilion is MUCH more than "just a building" to me.
Its a place where I watched more than 80 games as a student, sitting (actually, standing, jumping, yelling, etc) in its student section, in the presence of Coach Wooden. Its a place where I spent COUNTLESS NIGHTS SLEEPING in a tent or just a sleeping bag outside of Gate 10 just to get the BEST seats! Just outside of Gate 10 is also the location that I spent weeks studying and evenings playing card games, watching movies, throwing footballs, and even playing drinking games, in the company of hundreds of other crazy UCLA student fans like myself (back when camp-outs lasted up to a week at a time) in anticipation of most of UCLA’s home games. I attended UCLA during the Lavin era but was still able to witness some great games, like upsetting Kansas and Stanford and celebrating on the court as my family watched me on TV. Its also the place where I watched Billy Knight hit a last second shot to beat justSC. Pauley Pavilion is the place where I led the frisbee cheer before a game IN ERROR because I was so excited! And Pauley Pavilion is the place where I received my college degree from the greatest university in the world! There was definitely something poetic about the site of my graduation!
With all this being said, I am not opposed to a renovation of Pauley Pavilion. The seating capacity of the arena itself is the right size for us. However, I’ll be the first to admit that the seats are too far from the court (especially behind the baselines), the concession stands are lacking, and the number of bathrooms need to be doubled at minimum (especially on the floor!). I think it would be quite simple to keep the court, renovate the seating and concessions, bringing everyone closer to the floor and the 300 section lower and closer, and create a main grand entrance that will incorporate a hall of fame type display that fans pass through when entering to recognize UCLA’s unprecedented accomplishments in all sports that are housed in the building (basketball, volleyball, and gymnastics). We need to upgrade our facility, not destroy it and all the history within its walls.
GO BRUINS!
by rgalloucla on Sep 22, 2008 5:04 PM PDT 0 recs
Only two things need to be kept, as far as I'm concerned.
I was at Pauley for the first game, featuring a freshman named Ferdinand Louis Alcindor, Jr. I had Intermediate Basketball for a couple of years there for PE (if you took two PE classes, you could get a full unit of A, which in my case was more units of A than I usually got.) I haven’t been there for many years, so maybe I shouldn’t get a vote. But as far as I’m concerned, all we should keep is the court and the rafters. We need lots of rafter space for all the stuff hanging up there, and we need to make sure there’s room for more. And I think our court has just as much history as that parquet business in Baaaaaaston. But no one would probably know if the court got changed anyway, as long as the right words were painted on it (Mr. and Mrs. Coach.)
Anyway, there’s my two cents.
by Fox 71 on Sep 22, 2008 7:54 PM PDT 0 recs
I say
take a cue from the British Premiereship football teams like Arsenal and Liverpool, who tore down 100 year old stadiums to build brand spanking new ones. I even brought up this point to a couple of Boston Red Sox fans to whom I complained that their stadium is behind the times and should be torn down. To my surprise they agreed with me wholeheartedly, saying, among other things, that Fenway Park was built in a time when people were 5 feet tall.
by bruin8uclap on Sep 22, 2008 8:12 PM PDT 0 recs
pauley renovation
sorry to be a stick in the mud but changes to pauley or a new venue bring on problems. how long will construction take and where would we play home games? the forum is now a church and the sports arena is a dump. also, to generate revenue for construction, you have to worry about selling the naming rights. could you stomach: dorritos nacho cheese pauley pavilion or john and nell wooden court of pizza hut? not me. if you do anything, improve the players locker rooms.
by bruinbornandraised on Sep 22, 2008 10:51 PM PDT 0 recs
The Forum
has already been discussed as the leading candidate to house UCLA home games during the reconstruction, although I would personally prefer the Staples center. I understand, however, that playing home games at the Staples Center would bring about a logistical nightmare as far as scheduling is concerned.
by bruin8uclap on
Sep 23, 2008 5:14 AM PDT
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Keep the floor
The floor and banners are what really matter. I think the Howland Era Bruins deserve a worthy facility just as Coach Wooden’s Bruins had in then-state of the art Pauley.
by ishXdavid on Sep 22, 2008 11:11 PM PDT 0 recs
Agree
There’s no reason to change the classic floor design.
by SuperBruinMan on
Sep 23, 2008 12:00 AM PDT
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Pauley plans
I know that Pauley will be redone. So instead of swimming up stream, I would like to suggest some aspects to preserve…
1) I LOVE the easy access from the parking into Pauley.
2) I would love to have more exits from parking to the street.
3) I would love to have the same floor access
4) Games are so short that we do not need more food venues, especially without beer (which is a good thing, right? Its an NCAA or a PAC-10 thing: think about those rude AU fans if they were served beer inside. Oh wait, they were students under 21, and probably still intoxicated form their pre-game)
5) I would love to keep the floor access
6) I would love to keep the seats VERY CLOSE to the action. I would love to explore having the design similar to the VANDY venue which has been determined to be a BIG advantage for their home games.
by Deepcut on Sep 23, 2008 5:13 AM PDT 0 recs
One More THing
7) Have more UCLA history for the fans in the access areas.
by Deepcut on Sep 23, 2008 5:14 AM PDT 0 recs
Another idea
Perhaps this is already the case and I just don’t know it, but I think that Wooden should have a permanent seat behind the bench where no one else is ever allowed to sit again. I know he sits there a lot, but as far as I know, it’s just another seat when he’s not at the game. Losing one seat’s worth of revenue is insignificant, and it would add to the history of the building, whether it’s rebuilt or not.
by truebruin on
Sep 23, 2008 11:30 AM PDT
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That's perfect.
I like that, true. And someone could put a rolled up program on it.
by Fox 71 on
Sep 23, 2008 3:00 PM PDT
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I think I would start with Deepcut's No. 6
This is to be our HOME court, and I think the school should make it a point to create as much of a HOME court advantage as possible. We should have students on all four sides of the court in the first x-number of rows (on the theory that seats so close to the court have poor sightlines such that the wealthy and influential alumni will want to sit in the “good” seats.) I can’t think of a better HOME court advantage than that. Well, maybe having Coach Howland and all the players he recruits is a little helpful as well.
by Fox 71 on Sep 23, 2008 7:40 AM PDT 0 recs
Staples vs. Pauley
Earlier this year I got last minute tickets to see us beat Wash St. I had seats at the very top, behind the backboards. Later that evening I had tickets to see a Clippers game from a luxury box at Staples. The seats at Pauley were better, and closer. No kidding.
Staples Center is a massive, impersonal place. Clean, modern, and nice, but cold feeling. I’d hate for a Pauley renovation (or replacement) to end up feeling anything like it. Even if it means less revenue, we don’t need luxury boxes and movie stars and wealthy donors taking up space that should be filled by standing, screaming, jumping students and alumni and fans. At Staples the atmosphere is mostly detached, phony, forced. I also went to a Lakers playoff game against Utah and Game 2 Finals game against the Celtics, and even for NBA playoff games the “excitement” was more forced and manufactured than a regular Pac-10 game at Pauley.
I wouldn’t change a whole lot. Closer seats to the endlines. Get rid of those rails midway up. Revamp the stairs somehow, inside the venue as well as the steep stairs from the outside corner entrances. More bathrooms, sure (although I personally don’t recall ever waiting long, it’s a common complaint). Keep the floor, keep the rafters. Those are musts. I’ve never been to the locker rooms, they likely need an upgrade. A nice facade, a “hall of fame” type display in some grand entrance… those would just be icing, and whatever “niceities” they come up with I’m sure will be cool. But the main thing is to retain the feel, the atmosphere of Bruin basketball.
And yeah, keep a permanently reserved seat for Coach in perpetuity.
Finally, I agree with Deepcut’s #4, too, except that there needs to be more concessions space for non-food items (T-shirts, etc.).
by haywood nighttrain on Sep 23, 2008 4:57 PM PDT 0 recs
That may be
a function of the NBA vs. college hoops as much as the stadium. In any case, I doubt any renovation or replacement of Pauley would bring it to the size of Staples, and I doubt we’d have as many luxury boxes either. For the most part I just can’t stand the “show” mentality in the NBA, it is so contrived and forced it’s unbearable. Give me fight songs, cheers and crazy college kids right on top of the court.
And of course, Coach’s chair should be permanent, made of beautiful mahogany. Of course he would never let that happen because he is so humble.
by tasser10 on
Sep 24, 2008 9:01 AM PDT
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I agree ...
Staples is not great for basketball.
Staples is a hockey arena with a hockey configuration. It’s not ideal for hoops unless you have great seats.
Any reference to Pauley that I made in the original post was merely to point out that the history of the Lakers went with them when they left the Forum. They didn’t need to stay in an old building to keep the traditions of that franchise alive.
Go Bruins
by Achilles on
Sep 24, 2008 10:29 AM PDT
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