Continuing Our Ben Ball Discussion: DG's Challenge, Combinations & Interesting Times

by Nestor on Jan 27, 2009 4:00 AM PST in Basketball Comment 12 comments

Reading through the all observations and analysis from last few days following the Washington game has been fun. As excruciating as the loss was from Saturday afternoon it is still a lot of fun (at least for me) to read through all the incredible thoughtful commentary and detailed analysis we have seen popping up on the home page, fanposts and comments section of this amazing community. I think what Achilles wrote yesterday am is worth highlighting again:

Usually, on Sunday after a Saturday loss I skip the sports section and head straight for the business section. (I've spent the last six football seasons tossing the sports page.) But yesterday, for some reason, I picked up the pages and read the game story, read the side notes and checked the box score.

It occurred to me: Everything is copacetic. I'm okay with this team.

I don't mind riding the roller coaster.

Believe me, I'm not polyanna, Howland-can-do-no-wrong sycophant. I believe this team is flawed. Some of the criticism being leveled by the unlevel-headed has a grain of truth to it. Some of the chagrin is manifested in real, on court deficiencies.

Yet, I'm okay with this team.

I find this team interesting. I fascinated (and frustrated) by Howland's attempts to find the right combinations on the court, I'm intrigued by what I see as his reluctanct admittance that he must play guys like Malcolm Lee and Drew Gordon more if he wants to maximize the potential of this year's model.

To be honest with you I also read through the Sunday reports this weekend as well but didn't feel like doing my usual big picture roundup because I felt like blinkshot and Class of 66 pretty much articulated what I was feeling and sensing about this team. Although must say in the case of blinkshot he took his analysis to whole another level. Still I thought that even though these comments from DG are now more than 2 days old, they are worth highlighting on the frontpage (since we haven't gotten around to it yet):

"Right now we just don't have enough heart," said Gordon, UCLA's freshman center. "Basically, it's what it boils down to. We run our plays, execute, but the other team wants it more. We're definitely going to have to fix that, and I think this game is a true wake-up call to bounce back and hopefully get a little more hungry.
"We're just going on reputation."

I am still chewing over those comments from DG challenging his team-mates.

No doubt they were eye popping especially coming from a freshman in a team that features three senior starters. You know who those comments reminded me of? Those comments reminded me Ed O's outbursts following our pathetic loss against Cal at Pauley during 1994-95 season (and also after the Tulsa game in the 1994 NCAA tournament). The main difference here of course was Ed O was an established upperclassmen and the unquestioned leader at the time he would bark in frustration after agonizing losses. Okay, in some way those comments are also we used to hear from AA in recent years following tough, gut wrenching rare losses.

DG's comments stood out because I think there were many of us feeling those sentiments inside (and this is coming from one of the most ardent followers and believers of Ben Ball warriors) in last few games. I was hoping we saw those kinds of comments from either DC or JS or AA2 but I guess DG will have to do. I am not worried about the comments disrupting our team chemistry because I don't think CBH would have made DG available for post game interviews without having any idea on what his freshman was going to say (someone like CBH who has command and control over all details of his program would probably had a good idea on what DG was feeling after the game). I get the sense that DG was sending a message on behalf of CBH.

The question is how will the team respond. The guy that I am actually looking at most is JK. As happy as I am about ND's emergence as a scoring option this year, I am not sure if he is the viable and long term solution at the 4 spot. I think while ND is threat from the outside interms of defense and rebounding, JK has more upside. I also get the sense that JK has played with a sense of urgency in last couple of games. He has showed as much hustle as anyone around the boards. He also made solid contributions on the offensive end against Washington State. He provides a better scoring option on point blank opportunies than someone like AA2. So with that in mind why not think about putting (not necessarily starting) JK at 5 and DG at 4. It could all depend on lineups. Against faster teams Howland could switch ND to 3 and move over JS to 2 (interchanging with JH as Meriones suggested below).

I think one of the issues we have with this year's team we don't have a player who can do everything well. We have good players who each bring something special to the table. So I think the trick for Howland if possible is to have a flexible lineup that optimizes our best matchup depending on our opponent.

Also, speaking of JH, he offered up the following comments after Saturday's loss:

"I don't think we finish out in the second half," Holiday said. "For some reason, we always let teams back in the game. I don't know if it's we feel comfortable with the lead and just back off or what. We just become stagnant (offensively). We don't move. We don't play the same way we do in the first half."

Well there is no need to hash out our second half numbers again. I think we all collectively have to lay off JH a bit. Lot of folks expected him to step right in and emerge as the defensive stopper ala AA and RW. Yet we need to remember it took both AA and RW to emerge as the defensive stars in this program. We have to give JH time like many other superstar freshmen in college (again not everyone can be a KL who can just come into college and dominate like he did). I firmly believe JH will be a star at UCLA, but we just have to give him some room.

It will be interesting how the team reacts on Thursday night. I think we can now all agree that defense is the primary concern re. this year's team. Well that defense will be severely tested against one of the better offenses in the Pac-10 on Thursday night. Despite their recent setback against Oregon State Monty is coming in with a rising Cal team as he is getting the most out of talent left over by Ben Braun. We will have more on Cal before Thursday night but suffice to say it will be a war in Pauley. Can't wait to see how our guys come out and respond following the tough loss from Saturday. Hopefully the team will come out and respond to the challenge laid down by DG. I am also curious to see whether CBH tries out any new combinations against the Bears. Like A said yesterday this year's Ben Ball warriors are keeping it "interesting." That's part of the fun. Right?

GO BRUINS.

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Yes, and Yes.

I like Gordon talking about heart. We need to have a little fire under us. I don’t necessarily think he is the new leader of the team (I suspect DC, Shipp, and others are saying the same thing privately), but it is still good.

I like Keefe for Aboya. At least worth a shot—and it doesn’t mean Aboya doesn’t play big minutes in the least—he’ll always be a huge part of this team.

And, good work to Meriones’ post on line-up changes. I think it was solid. For my part, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Collison, Holiday, Drago, Keefe and Shipp lineup. Or even Gordon in the starting line-up for Drago – e.g., Collison, Holiday, Shipp, Keefe and Gordon. I know Gordon is a freshman, but it seems to me he is going to be part of great success, this year or next, so may as well get him in there.

I think DC and Holiday need to be on the floor, because they possess the quickness and talent to get to get to the lane and rim. I don’t think Shipp possesses that ability. We need to have that driving threat, and we really need to shoot more freethrows. With Keefe as an inside threat, that will also help get us to the free-throw line more—and force other defenses to respect us inside and out.

by rfirpo on Jan 27, 2009 7:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

speed wise

JS might not be as fast as DC, but he’s shown over his career to be a better slasher and driver to the rim than DC has from what I’ve seen

by blinkshot on Jan 27, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A tricky team to fit all the puzzle pieces

Because all the people we are considering for the 5 spot are really 4s in reality. AA2 would be a beast as a four. He is doing far more than I expected, not fouling out of games, but he really isn’t a center. Nor is Gordon for all his shot blocking expertise, nor is Keefe, who can play a number of positions, isn’t a classic fit in any of them. The only real center is Bobo, and he is considered too out of shape and isn’t up to speed on the hedge move. So what to do?

As good as Drago’s shooting has been, he is absolutely killing us on the glass. I would start Keefe and hope that Drago steps up this area much like Keefe had a fire light under him.

And I would look to get more minutes out of Gordon, but I am not sure I would start him just yet as he can come in to spell either the 4 or the 5, and until Howland is more comfortable with Bobo, that is key.

by Free the 16 on Jan 27, 2009 9:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

High expectations

It is obvious that the seeds of doubt have crept into the heads of Bruin fans ever since the lost to ASU.

This morning I had to remind myself that 3 years ago, we lost to UW and suc at the end of the season, we had little expectations of that team, but they made it to the national championship game.

2 years ago we lost to UW and to Cal in the PAC-10 tourney, the media thought the Bruins will stumble in the tourney, but they made it to the Final Four.

Last year, we had to come back from double digits to beat Stanford at home, and then followed it up with a miracle shot from Shipp to beat Cal. We also lost to suc at home. People asked, “Does this team have momentum going into the tournament?” The team made it back to the Final Four

CBH’s teams will have their lumps and bruises during the season (just like the Lakers), the important thing is they learn, bond together, and respond during difficult times.

The last thing the players need is to point fingers at each other, doubt CBH, and have the fans lose perspective of the big picture.

For the rest of the season, Pauley needs to be loud and rocking to support the guys.

by UCLA Championships Made Here on Jan 27, 2009 10:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I am not one to second guess howland

but I don’t see the drop off he sees with the bench, and wonder why we aren’t running more like we did against Arizona and using our depth.

Playing a walk the ball up style of offense against UW with Brockman in the middle seemed like a strange strategy. Since we don’t really have a post presense on offense, I would think a more uptempo guard oriented game with bench substitutions would work better for us…

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Jan 27, 2009 11:25 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

You want to run

with the team that has the most and the fastest guards in the conference? Be my guest. Good thing Howland doesn’t listen to you. In case you missed it, we were winning this game with 10 minutes left in the game, when the refs pretty much killed our momentum. It had nothing to do with our style of play.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jan 27, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

24 three point attempts does not a good offense make

We were one dimensional with the offense we were running, with very few drives to the basket, very few fast breaks, and no post play from the frontcourt to speak of. you need more than three point shooting to win a game like that. Changing the tempo would have allowed more fast break opportunities, more drives to the basket, and made Brockman deal with a quicker Aboya and Gordon. The guards weren’t the problem, it was our inability to negate the inside threat of Brockman with a single defender.

Again, BH is certainly a better coach than me, but I think picking up the tempo would have helped us in this game. I think it makes Brockman sit out longer, and possibly gets him in foul trouble if he reaches when tired.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Jan 27, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed but a few problems

Sure, we relied too much on jump shots instead of penetrating, etc.

But you can’t run a fast break when the other team gets 43 free throw attempts (which means AT LEAST 22 fouls, actually more). That’s absurd.

Brockman had 18 points while the Dentmon and Thomas had 40 points…and you think the guards weren’t the problem? Those are pretty telling numbers.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jan 27, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the guards were a problem

partly because the frontline was in early foul trouble and couldn’t help once the guard got by his first man.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Jan 27, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

sorru hit post too early

I think part of Brockman drawing all those fouls early in the second half made our interior defense back off, which allowed the guards a free lane inside.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Jan 27, 2009 7:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If over half of our guards were not freshmen, I'd agree...

… with a more uptempo, run and gun attack. However, even an uptempo attack requires defensive discipline and controlled agression, which our guys are still learning.

Also, of all our upperclassmen guards, I think only DC is best suited for a track meet attack. While Josh is healthy now, he tends to play at more of an MJ/ Kobe-style glide speed. Not soft, but not breakneck pace either.

As for Roll, while his offensive game is steadily improving, and his entry passing is strong, he is still not a top-flight ballhandler at running speeds.

I can see using our young guns as a speedfleet off the bench in a change of pace strategy, but in clutch time, we need solid halfcourt production on both ends.

"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008

by Meriones on Jan 27, 2009 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont agree with needing a faster offense

That said, I do agree that our bench needs more play time. Gordon is our best rebounder and our freshmen guards are very efficient players. Their issues are that at times, they play out of control and make play atempts they shouldnt

That said, watching our first 5 games s our last 5 games, and our bench players have matured a LOT and I hope they get a lot more play time now. The flashes of potential that JMM and DG and the frosh guards have shown are impressive

by blinkshot on Jan 27, 2009 11:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs