BN Gameday: Oregon Second Half Thread
by Nestor on Oct 10, 2009 1:57 PM PDT
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Well our offense looks definitely a little better with Kevin Prince at charge. Even though Prince started very rusty he got in rhythm and had our offense driving through a solid Ducks defense. Bruins are up by a score of 3-0 but they should have had at least 7 more points. They had a 1st and goal near the Ducks 1 yard line but came up short after a vanilla sequence at the goal line.
Still our defense is holding up well and playing solid against a great Oregon offense. Our kickers have been dynamite (nothing new there) and special teams have been solid (even though we need lot more out of Austin). As mentioned above with Prince our offense is moving the ball and dominating the time of possession by more than 2 to 1. Here is the box score. The most exciting player from first half on offense has been Damien Thigpen looking like a total BLUR that he is, while on defense Prince, Ayers and generally the whole unit is playing solid. So far.
Oregon gets the ball to start the second. Let's hope our D can maintain its momentum and the offense can finally break through. Let's get the second half thread started.
GO BRUINS.
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humble request
Any brief play-by-play would be much appreciated, at least of big plays/scores. ABC is showing 3 regional games. East of the Rockies it’s either Oklahoma or Alabama on ABC, with the other on WWL. That means no chance of watching the Bruins without shelling out $25 for PPV – and following the slow GameCast online sucks compared to reading everyone’s insights here. Thanks on behalf of fellow Bruin expats.
If you have broadband,
you can watch the game on ESPN360.com
Bob O. (Signholder #3)
wish I could
for mine is not an “affiliated internet service provider”
TuneMan7, will try it right now. thanks
Anyone think Norrie will work in some more Van Halen talk this half? He really perked up during that crap.
He is my least favorite Bruin annoucer
As I have said before I rather have James Washington. I am not kidding.
Also, good job holding Oregon to 0. Hopefully Kelly doesn’t get ambitious and put Masoli in…hopefully the D stays aggressive, and we open it up a tad. More Thigpen, more Rosario! :)
Tired OU Defense
Time of possesion for UCLA is 19:54. WOW that is huge for the 4th quarter running game. Thier D should be pretty tired.
Yep - That's What We Got Here In The Midwest
Thank God for my fellow Bruin brothers and sisters!
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Looking good
We are doing everything we need to do. We need a big play somewhere
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
Two things I'd like to change
The playcalling on the 1st and goal series. Not a single play action? Should have tried it on 2nd down.
Terence Austin is the punt returner because he makes good decisions, but he made terrible decisions on two punts. The first one he fielded at the 7. The second one he didn’t field and let it bounce from the 18 to the 1.
Yeah
I was screaming for a play action at the goal line. Also could have been cool to see a quick toss using the speed of either Jet Ski or the Blur.
Have used that name already
Earlier during off season when all the reports were coming out of practices. lol
Our offense
Looks better than theirs. This bodes well.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
Norrie
Loved the comment that the PI on Paulsen was an “uncatchable” pass. The commentators have access to the same replay as fans, right? When the DB grabs your waist and holds you from the moment you make your cut, that’s what makes the pass uncatchable.
They get the ball first.
We need to stop them on this opening drive.
And how
Watch for adjustments
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Anyone else think Masoli might start the 2nd half?
The fact that their QB can’t run takes away a huge part of their offense.
Can they do that?
Isn’t there a rule against that?
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions
If not
and he does come out, that would suck
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I should have mentioned in my post above
A decent first half for our OL. Solid job of protection (knocking on wood). Gotta keep it up. They really allowed Prince to get in rhythm.
I wish our D would finish off thier tackles
At least 3 broken tackles before ducks man is downed
We got to grind them down
We can do this
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
I thought I saw him in on some plays after he came up limping
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
I'm going back to the game
All my positive energy to our Bruins.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
WHY Do We Keep Making This Stupid Mistakes Over And Over Again???
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions
God dammit
Talk about the worse possible way to start a half.
Come on guys: we cannot fall apart. Lots of time to get a couple of scores.
Sloppy Sloppy play.
The game is not over, but now we have a bigger hill to climb.
B.F.
Loads of time left. It aint over till it's...
But that’s a decent sized hill to climb!
October 28th couldn't come soon enough.
I need a recap
I was dealing with my daughter…
Bob O. (Signholder #3)
They scored 2 touchdowns
In the first 26 seconds of play
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Oregon gets a kick return TD to start the half
Prince throws an INT for a TD on our first play from scrimmage
Yep
Don Julio Tequila coming out
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
i love how we run that play that is jumpable with a guy who doesn’t have respectable speed – therefore, they CB’s will just press him and gamble on him all game – and then that happens.
We were hands down the better team in the first half
we can still win this
Wow
14-3 and thei offense hasn’t even been on the field
That's all Oregon going so score
their offense is not cutting it,
No choice but to open up the offense.
Norm Chow can’t stick to the conservative game plan now. We have to open up with Thiggie, Carroll and Presley.
This will take a masterful coaching job to win this one!
Well see if Prince is the real deal. It is going to be a monumental effort…hold on tight I think we can.
have to keep their
heads up, but those are killer TDs
Anyone for Craft?
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
this duck fan is
:)
Under winter skies
We stand glorious
And with Oden on our side
We are victorious
unfreakin'real
i’d be laughing if this was any team other than ucla
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 2:23 PM PDT reply actions
ugh
maybe I’ll go back to slow updates on WWL GameCast…
this oregon team plays entirely off emotion
the momentum changes, and we’re in trouble.
Is it time to try Richard Brehaut?
Maybe he can cause some excitement.
How Can We Be Making These Kinds Of Mistakes At Home??
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:25 PM PDT reply actions
I'm going to stay positive
But it’s awful hard right now. The tequila will help.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
Why does this team struggle
so much to be focused and disciplined?
Like watching
men against boys. Bitterly disappointing.
omg - what a collapse...
please rally guys
Neuheisel, Bullough, and Chow collectively getting pwned by a rookie headcoach with a backup QB and w/o their starting cornerbacks. Embarrassing.
My. Good. God.
WTF is going on. All the promise of the early games right out the window.
B.F.
Why do i ever
get up for this team, all they do is let me down.
by bruinbrah on Oct 10, 2009 2:28 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Ahh, cheer up.
Winning isn’t sweet if you weren’t here to experience the pain of the losses. It’ll only get better.
B.F.
think they might
possibly notice someone is down, much less figure out who??
I'm done.
Just ripped my shirt off ala Hulk Hogan. Wife put me in time out in front of my 3 year old.
reggie carter just limped off the field
Under winter skies
We stand glorious
And with Oden on our side
We are victorious
Simply Un-fuckingbelievable
I am just speechless.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:29 PM PDT reply actions
all they need
is one TD drive in the 3rd and they’re in the damn game. At least we get to see the character of the team – DO NOT QUIT!
yes
it can get worse. Franklin and Carter are hurt. what did they do hat half, pull out the kegs?
Not over
It looks bad, but there is still a LOT of time left. We need a big play to steal some of the momentum back.
As a duckfan there is no way anyone could have predicted this would happen
Combination of execution and bad tackling by your boys.
The boys have tons of time left, they just need to get a grip
and start playing like they did in the first half
man
The fucking runbback was a fluke due to a shitload of uncalled holds, the mental breakdown is what is unreal. d had a chance to stop the bleeding and promptly shit the bed, feels like the old days
i suppose there were a shitload of no calls
on the pick six too?
Under winter skies
We stand glorious
And with Oden on our side
We are victorious
Did you notice the way Prince held onto the ball when it was stripped? I don't know
much about FB technique, but it looked like he wasn’t tucking it in.
B.F.
Hell - I'd Like To See If Either Tom Ramsey Or Gary Beban Might Have Any Eligibility Left At This Point
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Brehaut with helmet on
maybe see what he can do.
nice punt
something positive I guess. must get turnover.
I was just going to be positive and post there is plenty of time lerft,
but 3 and out, maybe not
was just going to ask
if anyone saw if Reggie Carter was back in…
put someone else back there
Austin can’t do anything right now.
been saying that for a while myself.
Special teams still looks sloppy as hell, regardless of that run back, they have been questionable all year. I think Ganz is a legit recruiter or I would be calling for his head! although with my 25 dollar donation a year, I am not sure that it would make much a difference.
Bruins need to settle down...
There’s plenty of time. All they need to do is run AT Oregon, versus trying to hit the edges. If I were the OC, do a classic Joe Montana in the ’80s West Coast drive. Short passes so Prince gets his confidence back and stops the rush, with Franklin hitting the holes hard. Plenty of time.
by BlackandOldGold on Oct 10, 2009 2:41 PM PDT reply actions
would like to see
Paulsen and/or Moya get some plays on offense.
Especially LP
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I am as
big a Bruins fan as the anybody………….but at least I will say that as much as I hate Pete Carroll, at least he plays the best guys regardless of age. Are you telling me that Austin is better than Thigpen? I would rather have Sua Fila returning punts than Austin. Why won’t they give Brehaut a chance. We are down 21-3. I remember way back when…………..UCLA brought in a freshman by the name of Tommy Maddox…..and the rest is history. Come on CRN………why won’t you play some of the young kids?
Motion...
Has anyone seen any motion in the backfield for the Bruins?
by BlackandOldGold on Oct 10, 2009 2:45 PM PDT reply actions
Iowa Guy?
Good luck to my alma mater later on tonight.
But right now I’m suffering intensely.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Senior leadership
Paulson needs to step up. A dropped first down pass and a false start.
well, technically
he went around them on that big play
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Yikes...
… just checking in. I’d been listening to the 1st half while I was trying to get some work done for a client today. Took a couple phone calls and it looks like our D hasn’t left the locker room, ‘cause all of a sudden we’re down 18. WTF?
GO BRUINS!!!
it wasn't really the D's fault
Oregon had a kick return TD to start the half, then Prince threw an INT for a TD on our first play from scrimmage, then when we got the ball back, he fumbled and gave them the ball back at our 40 yard line
CAN'T We Freaking Tackle?
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:48 PM PDT reply actions
3rd and 3 to 3rd and 8
probably would go for it on 4th – but now can’t. More bad penalties from the bruins and those are the type of errors this team is becoming known for, and quite honestly, those are also the types of mistakes that are unacceptable. After every error – the other team has capitalized on it – physical errors are one thing, but the recurring “mental” errors are the frustrating part of following this team.
There is still some time left – but the offense needs a spark. Let’s go fellas!
Offense
has dug this hole, now its time for them to dig themselves out of it.
Jesus..
Right into the hands of linemen…
by BlackandOldGold on Oct 10, 2009 2:51 PM PDT reply actions
Tough call for QB
Prince looks like crap this half. No doubt there. But IF he’s our QB of the future, then he needs as much work as he can get. I’m torn on whether to yank him or not.
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 2:52 PM PDT reply actions
Prince
doing his best Kevin Craft impression this game.
ducks
115-12 in last two games and this one so far.
God - We Can't Do Jack Sh*t Right Now
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:53 PM PDT reply actions
Both feet in...
Okay, one foot yeah, I get. But both feet in???
by BlackandOldGold on Oct 10, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions
Wow - Wish I Could Have Seen That One!
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:54 PM PDT reply actions
you will
it will be on highlight shows tonight
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay...do you stick with Prince?
If there’s a three and out, do you bring in a new qb? That’s a tough, tough decision.
by BlackandOldGold on Oct 10, 2009 2:56 PM PDT reply actions
interesting question – does that TD do anything but decrease the chance that Brehaut comes in? Even though that seems counter-intuitive, l think this means Prince finishes out.
Time For Our "D" To Step UP!!!!!
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 2:56 PM PDT reply actions
yikes
right through them with ease!! ucla gave up over 300 on the ground last year. should do the same again today.
Stop the Run!
They ain’t gonna pass, so why can’t we stop the run?
Ok, we matched their defensive TD
We need to match a special teams TD next
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:00 PM PDT reply actions
And Right When Our "D" Had To Make A Statement Hold
Dammit.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions
I am not going to lie.....he looks pretty good as a true freshman
And he will probably stay all four years due to his size
Bre time!
I don’t see Joe Montana or Cade wearing a blue uniform right now, so we need a miracle come back. Let Bre loose.
already burned the redshirt
might as well see how he handles the offense.
Why..
Does the Pac 10 always get crappy announcers?
by BlackandOldGold on Oct 10, 2009 3:05 PM PDT reply actions
i dunno. announcing must be really, really hard
b/c there are a lot more crappy ones than good oens
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
he had of course
started as many games as your QB as of yesterday
Dump all of Dorrell's guys
Let’s get rid of all the Dorrell leftovers including prince. Start all freshmen if we have to. I’m done with that era.
Prince, a lifelong Bruins fan, committed to Washington in the fall after former UCLA coach Karl Dorrell pulled back the Bruins’ recruitment of Prince. But the latest turn came last week when new coach Rick Neuheisel and offensive coordinator Norm Chow visited Prince.
“It’s kind of a dream come true,” Prince said. “It all kind of played out at the end the way it was supposed to. It was kind of crazy how it happened, but it’s cool I’m going to be able to go to UCLA and play for coach Neuheisel and coach Chow.”
exactly
stop talking about Barkley!! focus on this game
playmaker
Damn! only if we had some playmakers that can give UCLA some YAC’s
must have been some training sessions
with basketball SPTR’s “helping” the football ones
DAMMIT!
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:11 PM PDT reply actions
Breahaut
I like what I saw. Prince is done; take all the Dorrell leftovers off the f’ing table!
Posted this up top
Prince, a lifelong Bruins fan, committed to Washington in the fall after former UCLA coach Karl Dorrell pulled back the Bruins’ recruitment of Prince. But the latest turn came last week when new coach Rick Neuheisel and offensive coordinator Norm Chow visited Prince.
“It’s kind of a dream come true,” Prince said. “It all kind of played out at the end the way it was supposed to. It was kind of crazy how it happened, but it’s cool I’m going to be able to go to UCLA and play for coach Neuheisel and coach Chow.”
Why can't we seal the edges!
We’ve got to roll out Bre, there is no protection.
That drive was ...
all about the refs. They controlled it.
Austin was mugged on that deep ball, no call
Rosario gets called for a ticky-tack hand-check
Drive over.
Easy money and faithless women, red-eye whiskey for the pain...
i’m ok w/ the no call on Austin b/c the pass was pretty badly underthrown
the rosario call was an absolute killer
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Bre is my starter next week.
Prince has been traumatized.
Manny just drove in a run
anything is possible! miracle rally for bruins next!
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:15 PM PDT reply actions
yesssssss
finally!!!! keep talking about Oregon and sc
ran it up
the middle, Ramirez looks tough though
C'mon Bruins - Touchdown NOWWWWW!!!!!!
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:20 PM PDT reply actions
Our defense is the best it's been since the rosebowl....with our two best DB's out for the season
The only reason Oregon has as many wins as they do
Arm chair QB-ing
needed a back to stick around and pick up the blitz
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:21 PM PDT reply actions
Frustrating
Just so frustrating.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:21 PM PDT reply actions
something is wrong in the red zone
better figure it out soon – because as great as forbath is, TD’s are needed to win games too….
OL
has been better this year, ducks rush just keeps coming. Rowe is a monster.
Really tired of this.
Red zone offense sucks. I know we are young, but seriously, they guys have talent.
it will . .
. . take time to get better; 6-6 is going to be tough with UCLA’s schedule.
I'd be doing the same
if i weren’t in a peds ward. for some reason, they frown on that sort of thing around here
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
We Do All That
And we don’t get jack shit. Goddammit.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions
With some decent pass protection....
We’ll beat Cal next week. We already played Oregon better than Cal.
but
. . . UCLA played at home and if James can do this to us, freakin’ Best will annihilate us.
Why on a play that goes out of bounds . . .
. . . do they run the clock before the next play because there is a penalty????
he must have won the coin flip on the sidelines
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
It almost doesn't matter which QB we have
if he doesn’t have ANY time whatsoever to work
GO BRUINS!!!
Why Prince again!
Bre just needs some protection.
TB's research didn't equate black food with burnt?
by BlackandOldGold on Oct 10, 2009 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I personally like a ton of black dye in my taco
Makes me feel like I got my processed food dosage for the day
Black Jack Taco
Only highlight of the day. Babes are hot.
All I want for Xmas is . . . .
. . . 6-6 and the Las Vegas Bowl! PLeeeeease
Screw this mediocre bowl crap.
Playoff Time Lets Get it Go Angels!!!! Beat Boston.
by deejayelleseven on Oct 10, 2009 3:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Jesus Chr.........
WTF else can go wrong????
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:32 PM PDT reply actions
another
tough day. dodgers are winning, but doesn’t help ease the angst with bruins right now.
i passed one - then went in the other....
by Nakatomi Plaza on Oct 10, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
congratulations . .
. . now file a class action suit against Karl Dorrell for putting our program back a decade
Don't quit on our boys.
Bre will beat Cal next week.
Okay, Bre... when you have the ball
the big dudes in white are gonna want to hit you. Be prepared.
GO BRUINS!!!
Yep
NO doubt about it.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
there is a rather large baseball game on at the moment..
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
To the victor's go the spoils
We start winning games, and our penises will be all slobbery too.
/yay?
by insomniacslounge on Oct 10, 2009 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Bruins
will keep ducks to around 300 yards, figured it would be worse. major rebuilding with offense.
STFU Norrie you annoying SC Ball washer
Playoff Time Lets Get it Go Angels!!!! Beat Boston.
by deejayelleseven on Oct 10, 2009 3:41 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Quite Possibly
But honestly I think this team has much, much bigger issues that need to be addressed.
Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!
by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 10, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Never Left a Game Early Before...
..in 20 years of watching UCLA football as student and alum.
Just got home as I left right after the 3rd touchdown in about 2 minutes at the start of the half.
It was/is clear to me that there is no way that with the current playcalling that the UCLA offense could score today.
First down at the 1, no points.
FIrst down at the 12, no points.
I hope that all the Craft haters and Brehaut (and even Prince) lovers are happy now as the offense threw the game away, along with special teams.
Does someone want to explain to me how Norm Chow is the “genius”?
Get used to the expression “winniable game”, because that will be the motto of this year.
Really sad.
Disgusted right now. Going to get drunk and play some hold 'em.
The guys better really focus next week or they could be 3-5 going into the UW game.
Will ucla . . .
.. . . win another game?! Seriously, the schedule is tough and WSU is at WSU!
we'll win at WSU
SMU should have won there but put on a choke job of epic proportions, one much worse than any Bruin attempt at a choke
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
well
if bruins lose to Cal, some big time problems to work on.
Sad part about all this is
Neither Oregon or Stanford are going to beat SUC. They show up for our games but not for that one.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
I'm feelin all right
I got the ice blended Don Julio margaritas going. Taking another oblivion seeking slurp right after I hit “post”
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
It is sometimes good to win
and other times it’s good to suffer. Fear not my friends, victory will only punctuate this time we are experiencing now.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
It's been about 10 years of waiting...
…so I guess this will be the biggest orgasm ever!
by bruin4life1993 on Oct 10, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
hahahah
Yeah, there you go
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Our kids have fight
That’s all we need to know. I’m proud of them.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
At UCLA
We have victory all the time. It makes the loses sting. Thank God they sting us so.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
Good game.....
Your defense played good enough to win, but special teams looked to be the difference. The QB INT’s netted out.
Hey bring your game against SUC
If you are going to beat us, at least beat them. That will make me feel better
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
That's going to be an absolute War
The way Oregon’s defense is playing and it’s home makes me feel like we have a chance
I'm not out...
..but a little down. I asked last week why Craft and not Brehaut? You can’t look back, but I don’t get it. We’ll be back.
Hey, we could be UGA fans…they got throttled by TN.
I really hope we go 6-6 this year
I don’t know if I’d be able to handle 4-8 or 5-7
We'll beat Cal
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 10, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Have faith in our kids
Losing sucks. Sucks like a duck. But you know what, our team gave their all. I’m proud of that. Nothing makes me more proud to be a Bruin than that team. Cheer up. Win or lose, we ain’t changing sides.
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
Ethier
2 run shot, dodgers up 3-0, see if they can sweep
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