CRN's Lavinesque Quote
by bruinponcho on Oct 18, 2009 2:17 PM PDT
35 comments
The worst development yesterday wasn't on the field but in the press conference after. There, CRN decided to channel the beloved Steve Lavin and say something so stupid to alienate the fanbase that it defies comprehension.
Nestor summed up what a lot of us, including myself, are feeling today already. However, the most dissapointing development for me from yesterday wasn't our defense looking great for 4 plays and then clueless for the 5th or our receivers dropping passes a division one football player should catch, it was this quote from CRN when reportedly asked about the bruin faithful in the LA Times. His first statement, which I have no problem with, is something that we have heard from him every week and is the standard coach speak:
"I understand their dissatisfaction, especially given the 3-0 start and that things were turning [around], and so on and so forth," Neuheisel said. "All I can tell them is that we're going to keep working at it.
Sadly, the next sentence is absolutely indefensible and disheartening:
"It's too long and too hard a story to give all the details, and frankly I don't think they'd understand all the details. We have to keep working at it, no excuses."
While I like the last sentence, the first one pisses me off to no end. Really CRN? I understand that we aren’t genius coaches like you and Chow, but please try and explain why your team is essentially the same today as it was in week 1. To me, the only conclusion from a statement like this is that 1) maybe the details are too difficult for CRN’s assistants (Defense and Special Teams) or players since; they don't seem to be fixing these details; and 2) CRN doesn’t know the reason why his team is stuck where it is. Since I am too dumb to understand, I sure hope CRN can come up with some answers in the next few weeks.
Just like you N, I fully support CRN and think that he can turn it around. But the reason I think a lot of us liked him was because he was so affable and you couldn’t get him to stop talking. If he is going to go down a path of "the fans are too dumb to understand what I’m doing," he will lose my support very quickly. I hope this is just an aberration said after a frustrating day.
Go Bruins.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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to be honest...
I’m dissapointed in most of the fans at the Rose Bowl. I hate it when fans boo their own team. I don’t understand how you can do that to these kids who are out there in 100 degree heat giving it their all. I don’t understand how thousands of Bruins “fans” can drive out to the rose bowl and set up tv’s to watch the game rather than getting into the stadium and helping make the rose bowl one of the toughest places to play in the country. What is the point of tailgating and not going to the actual game? sorry to vent like this but I just had to get that off my chest. GO BRUINS!!!
by King J77 on Oct 18, 2009 2:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure they weren't booing
CRN’s decision to kick a field goal on 4th and Inches? Because I booed long and hard when that happened and I stand by my actions.
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
by MexiBruin on Oct 18, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur.
I booed the ‘4th and a weenie’ decision to punt. I specifically remember Kai Maiava giving the coaches the ‘go for it’ sign….only to watch CRN (or some sideline coach) do what appeared to be a pirouette indicating to bring on the punt team. Not sure if you can sense it from the TV, but to me, that was an absolute confidence killer for the fans and players alike. CRN needs to know the fanbase does not approve of ‘Karl Dorrell ball.’
And I never boo the players. Complain about broken plays or individual letdowns, but never boo…..
by Scotucla03 on Oct 18, 2009 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CRN does not need to show he doesn't approve of KD ball or antything of the sort
He needs to do his best to win games. I sincerely hope that CRN is not thinking of KD or Donahue or anyone else out there and making his decisions based on that. He’s out there to win a game and he needs to make the decision that gives the team the best chance to win the game. I understand those who are upset that he chose to punt and there is a definite argument to be made that he should have gone for it. Fourth down conversion percentage, tone of the game, momentum, etc. Those are all legitimate arguments because those are arguments on behalf of winning and that is what the decision should be made on.
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Oct 18, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
Dorrell and Donahue have done enough damage to our program. They shouldn’t be influencing game-time decisions even beyond the proverbial grave.
by bluebland on Oct 18, 2009 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was the
loudest of the booing. I didn’t agree with the call either but I don’t believe in booing your team. You see it as boooing the play calling but to the media/outsiders and recruits it looks like the team as a whole is beeing booed.
Did you also notice the people who show up and tailgate but don’t actually go to the game? What is the point of taking your directv dish out to the golf course and watching the game on a flat screen?
by King J77 on Oct 18, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I was saying...
Boo-erns"—Hans Moleman (The Simpsons)
Troy will fall...AGAIN!
by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 18, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Recommended
I’d like to know those “details.”
Let’s hear them out coach. I am serious let’s hear them out. I have followed this program on a day to day basis for more than 21 years. I have followed in intensely hanging on to every word coming out in the press, following recruiting, especially since the day I sent in my acceptance letter to UCLA.
I think there are thousands of others like me who would be very interested in knowing those details and help whatever way we can to make CRN’s efforts successful.
CRN needs to trust his offense. He also needs to trust the hardest of the hardcore – the people who rooted for him – and welcome him back to BN.
by Nestor on Oct 18, 2009 2:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Cut CRN Some Slack
Which of us has not made a stupid, extemporaneous comment?
We have one of the most articulate coaches in college football and we have set a very high standard for him. But, let’s cut him some slack.
I don’t take what he said as a comment attacking me or my lack of intelligence — I see it as a way of ducking a question he does not want to answer. Not a good duck, but a duck none the less.
When I read the quote in context, I thought CRN was trying to deflect a discussion which would ultimately focus on the failure of some of our players to come through in key ways and on key plays.
I much prefer a coach who does that to one who tries to make himself look good by throwing everyone else under the bus.
There is no one on BN who has not written something stupid. No one. And, we have the ability to preview and edit our remarks.
Taking this one quote and making a big deal out of it is just not right.
Questioning CRN’s commitment to our fan base, his openness to us and the community, his passion for UCLA — because he said one thing which seems stupid but may well have been smart — is just plain wrong.
You may want to question his play calling — upon that we can disagree.
But, his character? I’m not sure that’s appropriate.
The bottom line is still that we are not a good program, yet. We are a better program than we were under CTS and a better program than we were last year. That’s what we asked for and we are getting it.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Oct 18, 2009 3:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think it was cherry picking, but that’s the point of these opinions right? The ends justify the means here, as opposed to real life situations
There's no one in the world that wants to beat UCLA more than _______.
by ucla13_usc9 on Oct 18, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and then
it was the next sentence, so run on thought might have hit him there
There's no one in the world that wants to beat UCLA more than _______.
by ucla13_usc9 on Oct 18, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, Unless We Were There, We Don't Know What He Said or the Context in Which it Was Said
We don’t know the question to which the answer was given.
We don’t know if this is a verbatim quote or a paraphrase with quotes around it.
We don’t know if the two statements were contiguous.
But, we do know CRN and Chris Foster. My money is on CRN.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Oct 18, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what that means
If you are trying to imply that I cherrypicked and am trying to slander CRN, then you sorely mistaken. I posted this originally as a comment in Nestor’s thread, he asked me to make a separate fanpost about it. If you read my whole post, you would see that. Now if the LA Times was cherry picking CRN’s quotes, then that is a much better situation and one that I hope is true. Such is the fate of having a less than trustworthy gatekeeper of information
by bruinponcho on Oct 18, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aimed at Chris Foster -- Not You
After reading your entire post, I went to the slimes and read the column.
My point: Unless we actually hear a press conference, we must be careful about believing what a reporter chooses to quote, the order in which he does so, and/or the fact that it might not be a direct quote at all.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Oct 18, 2009 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think coach neu is probably right too
As fans, most of us don’t know the sport at all compared to coaches or players. We see the end result of something but usually have no clue about the process. How many fans understand the details of hand and footwork in blocking or receivers breaking jams or even proper angles, mechanics, and all the thousands of other fundamentals both large and small? The micro stuff that really affects the game is invisible to us. If Neuheisel started enumerating those things, I think most fans really wouldn’t understand (and probably not care or feel sympathetic). We could think of it like a microscope; as fans, we don’t possess nor do we know how to properly use the microscopes, and even if we did, we wouldn’t know what we were looking at anyways or their significance. In this case, Neuheisel sounds a bit like a doctor/scientist; he’s not going to bother with the technical mumbo jumbo. He’s just gonna get back to work, and I really dig that.
by aenzo on Oct 18, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TRUE, BUT . . .
Many of us have played some form of organized Football. Turkey Bowl, watched NFL since we were kids, played hours upon hours of Madden and other videogame football, etc. Sure, we don’t know foot ball as well as somebody who’s being doing it as a professional and a player for decades.
But, you don’t have to know the intricacies of foot placement to know when to go for it on 4th and inches.
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
by MexiBruin on Oct 18, 2009 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha, yeah i see what you mean
but that’s decision-making stuff. On the execution level, most of the things are incomprehensible and invisible to the majority of fans and viewers. I think that’s the stuff Neuheisel might be referring to in terms of details.
by aenzo on Oct 19, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but we do have to know...
that our guys can’t convert on 4th and 1 because we are weak and young up front. It’s not true what announcers always say: “this is gonna come down to whoever wants it more!” NO!!! It’s gonna come down to whoever is stronger and uses their technique the best. Technique, maybe we could win that. Strength? No F&##$n way! I said it before on another thread. Our linemen are 18 year olds with 18 year old muscles and who have been in the program as little as 2 months, going up against 20 year olds who have had 3+ years of exposure to college level strength and conditioning coaches. On goal line plays and any other plays that rely on strength and its obvious what we are going to do, we are not going to win that battle. We’ve already seen what happens when we try. CRN has too.
by westwood78 on Oct 20, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we really, really want it!!!!
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Oct 20, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, really.
Despite really wanting, I still haven’t had that date with [fill in the blank – I’m thinking Erin Andrews at the moment.] Could it be that really really wanting it isn’t enough?
by Fox 71 on Oct 20, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said you had to run the ball on 4th and 1?
If we aren’t strong enough for sneaks and punching it in, then why not try a pass?
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on Oct 20, 2009 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the same "avoid the criticism" mentality
There is no criticism if you go for a field goal – “You have to come away with some points” say all the commentators, or at least they did when I listened to them.
There is less criticism when you do the quarterback sneak. “They should have just pounded the ball in there with a quick count, especially with that 220 pound quarterback.”
More criticism on a dive: “Turning and handing the ball off allows the defense too much time, and that’s why that play got stuffed.”
You absolutely can’t sweep: “That play took way too long to develop, Vern. You never want to run a sweep at the goal line.”
Passing is the last option: “I don’t understand why they didn’t sweep on that play, Vern. There are just too many things that can go wrong when you pass the ball at the goal line. They really should have gone for a field goal in this situation.”
Color commentators should be offered one and only one choice: A blindfold and a cigarette or nothing.
by Fox 71 on Oct 21, 2009 4:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree and disagree 66
No doubt we have all said stupid things both in our own lives and here on BN. However, I think when you look back and these things said in frustration, they tended to be a more accurate reflection of what we really felt and believed then the sugar coated things we present on a daily basis.
Like I said, I hope and am pretty confident that this is an aberration. However, I do think that CRN is slightly annoyed with the criticism of him by mere fans. That is fine though, he does know more than us and that is why he is the coach. I think the important thing that we all should keep in mind is to keep ourselves honest and take things for what they are. If Dorrell had said this same thing, we would have all gone nuts. Just my two cents.
by bruinponcho on Oct 18, 2009 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest difference is the talent level
When Dorrell made comments like these, he was trying to save himself after teams with high talent levels completely collapsed. I’ve never heard CRN make a comment excusing himself, and I’m not at all surprised that a team starting so many freshmen imploded. It’s what I expected at the start of the year, and frankly, it’s far less painful to watch freshmen make mistakes than it is to watch horrible teams embarrass a more talented, more experienced, but unprepared KD team.
As far as the comment itself goes, I think we’re taking it out of context. I definitely read it as a minor rebuke to the fans, but also as a coach who isn’t willing to simplify complex problems. After all, he is correct, there are far too many reasons that we lost this game to list in a postgame show.
by Class of 09 on Oct 18, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
If that quote came from either Dorrell or Lavin, we would have destroyed them. I don’t recall seeing that kind of stuff from Howland dismissing fans. I hope this was an aberration and I am glad you spotted it and called it out to keep us consistent.
by Nestor on Oct 18, 2009 6:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Because CTS and Lavin had a long history of hiding behind others and running away from us
CRN does not. How many times does he have to take responsibility for failures before you we can differentiate one line of what is purported to be a quote from an entire body of statements made over two years?
Why is it we don’t trust Chris Foster on so many things but assume he got this one right?
sjh
by Class of 66 on Oct 18, 2009 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
After the whole incident with the four players we suspended earlier this year, I am very hesitant to put stock in what the SUC Times writes.
by Tydides on Oct 18, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't just see that quote from Chris Foster
I heard the quote also from post game interviews in subscription based sites. The quote wasn’t made up or really taken out of context.
by Nestor on Oct 19, 2009 4:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the press conf
and I didn’t walk away feeling degraded as a fan. I was actually quite pleased with his remarks. They were the comments of a coach that is working hard to find the right combination of things that does work with what he has. CRN not wanting to go into details in front of the media does not surprise me. We are not in the locker room, we are not on the practice field and we are not in the team meetings and at this point CRN should not have to explain to us or anyone else his methods. I take CRN at his word. If he says that he is doing everything he can, then I believe that. Give the man a break and be thankful for what we have, a great groups of kids giving it all they have and a coaching staff that is doing their best to get the most out of them.
As far a going for it on fourth down? They should have gone for it, IMHO
by LongtimeBru on Oct 18, 2009 6:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
since you saw it live
Since you saw it live, maybe you can solve the question that has bugged me about this: did the LA Times take this out of context or was it presented fairly as he said it?
Don’t get me wrong, as I think I have made clear, I love the idea of CRN. I’m just not quite sure if his on the field persona is the same as the off the field persona that we all enjoy. I hope I’m wrong.
by bruinponcho on Oct 18, 2009 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if it was taken out of context really.
The feeling that I got from it was that the coaching staff is doing the best that they can and that they do not have all the answers yet. The coaches can’t play for the kids, all they can do is teach them and hope they can grasp it and improve each week. Per CRN’s statement that he will not except inexperience as an excuse anymore, I think they will play whomever is improving or doing the job that is ask of them.
I have been a Bruin fan since 1965 and have seen the good and the bad. I am really excited about our prospects. It may not happen this year, but we have to look at the progression of things(recruiting included) and see where we are in a year. I would love to see the team kicking hiney every week, but that is just not reasonable. This program was too decimated when CRN and staff took over to make that kind of turnaround. I look forward to every game to see their progress. They have some exciting kids for a change and it’s actually fun to watch.
by LongtimeBru on Oct 18, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly didn't see the same offensive team
I saw in week 1. Do you really believe the team is essentially as good as it was in game 1? I think the line has gotten a lot better, I think Prince is betting better (the missed games really hurt), so I think there has been progress.
On the defensive front, the team has not looked good. Both personnel being used and schemes look questionable.
I think the team looks a lot different: The offense is better and the defense is worse.
Also, I think calling Neuheisal “Lavinesque” is uncalled for.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Oct 18, 2009 6:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, half of that was the wrong post
I do think calling Lavinesque is uncalled for, but the first part was meant for a different post. Don’t know how that happened…
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Oct 18, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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