Bruins Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Network Message: 50% Off: CBS/SB Nation Fantasy Baseball

Open Thread & Poll On UCLA's Quarterback Situation Wrt Craft/Brehaut

I have a feeling we are going to be on the topic of QB for a while. It's pretty clear the range of opinion even among the front pagers vary. Ryebreadaz thinks the debate is rather pointless since " coaches have a decent idea of what we have because they’re at practice every day." I can respect that. As I wrote in the comment thread today I will also defer to the expertise of Chow and Neuheisel wrt to QBs. They have access to data points (results from practice during game weeks) which none of us (unless you happen to be coaches, players, and folks with credentials) do. However, as CAJason80 pointed out "if the coaches don’t even trust Craft to throw a ball down field over thirty yards at this point (and it’s painfully obvious from the gameplans that they don’t trust him to do just that), why not put Brehaut in?"

That's the question that is on lot of folks mind. I guess the answer we might get from the coaches will indicate that Brehaut is not ready. However, if that is the case the decision to burn his redshirt year in our first game doesn't make a lot of sense. I know Achilles will also have some thoughts on this he is going to share tomorrow. Looking forward to reading his takes and hearing from Rye as well. Also, we should know in next 48-72 hours whether Kevin Craft will be able to return for Oregon game.

Star-divide

Meanwhile, for now in case you haven't seen it we have a poll question up on the frontpage wrt to QB decision of not playing Brehaut in the Stanford game. You can vote by going here.  If you have more thoughts on it post here in the comment threads and as always put up your extensive analysis on FanPosts.

I respectfully disagree with rye about the discussion being "pointless" for the question Jason articulated in his comments. I think it's more than ok to discuss and talk this out even if we disagree with each other. I think it's a topic that's discussion from all angles. That will be the best for all of us to get a better understanding of the issues involved and make us better informed about our team in the process. That's what this place is for. Right?

GO BRUINS.

0 recs  |  Comment 31 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Again

Similar to the debate last year about why we didn’t see Forcier: don’t you think UCLA’s coaching staff would want to play the guy who they think has the best shot at leading the team to victory? Obviously the answer was Craft. You can’t throw a Freshman into the fire of a 4th quarter with a chance still lingering. I just don’t think it would ever make sense…

There's no one in the world that wants to beat UCLA more than _______.

by ucla13_usc9 on Oct 4, 2009 8:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I must have been living under a rock

I’ve been off sports sites since before I left for Palo Alto. I needed a day to try and forget what happened on Saturday, Morose.com. Anyway, I must have missed something – I thought Prince was on schedule to return against Oregon? Did this change or we are just discussing this in case Prince can’t go?

"The entire world that bleeds blue and gold ... they have been dying for this." - Coach Rick Neuheisel

by uclafan11 on Oct 4, 2009 8:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Im not making sense

Sorry! I was wondering if something has changed with Prince’s progress and he is not playing against Oregon. I had heard he was coming back for that game.

"The entire world that bleeds blue and gold ... they have been dying for this." - Coach Rick Neuheisel

by uclafan11 on Oct 4, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OH

You are asking Nestor that. Now I see he addressed that but wrote Craft. I skimmed too fast and never saw Prince’s name in this post so I was confused. Got it now!

"The entire world that bleeds blue and gold ... they have been dying for this." - Coach Rick Neuheisel

by uclafan11 on Oct 4, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about Crissman?

Forever a Bruin makes a good point in the previous thread. With all of the talk about Craft v Bre, the idea of going to Crissman seems to have gotten lost in the the mix. He has had just as much time in the system as Craft. Shouldn’t he be an option? I still believe that Bre isn’t ready (at least that is what the actions of the coaches tell me), but give Nick a chance!

As far as RB losing his redshirt year, I don’t think it is such a big deal. Both he and Prince are freshman, so at best, if he doesn’t beat out Prince at some point over the next couple years, then that lone senior year probably wouldn’t be worth holding onto anyway (thats me hoping that we continue to bring in young QB talent). It was more important to see him in a pressureless game situation just to see how he handles playing in front of a crowd when it really counts. The coaches have seen him in practice, but they wanted to throw him in with the lead against an inferior opponent to see how he handles himself. How he approaches the huddle. How he commands his troops. How he walks up to the line of scrimmage. To see if he rushes his passes. To see if he is nervous at all. They got that. Unfortunately, so far this season, we haven’t been given a lot of chances like that. IMO, it would have been better to start RB against Stanford than to bring him in during the 3rd quarter, down more than a TD during the most crucial drives of the game (granted, we didn’t do anything with it). That is not the time for a true freshman QB. The K St. game seemed to be the perfect opportunity, but unfortunately, we didn’t build a lead that would have afforded that kind of opportunity. Hopefully, our D will take a dose of Cialis and stiffen up a bit, and he can get that chance. Wazzu, ASU maybe?

by westwood78 on Oct 4, 2009 8:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cialis!

LOL that’s a good one! :)

"The entire world that bleeds blue and gold ... they have been dying for this." - Coach Rick Neuheisel

by uclafan11 on Oct 4, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Kevin Craft is tough, experienced, and mobile. And every defensive coordinator in America knows he has all the range of a leaky Super Soaker rifle.

M

"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008

by Meriones on Oct 4, 2009 9:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

perfect anolgy

lol … perfect anolgy of our qb situation.

by dabruins on Oct 5, 2009 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it comes down to winning now vs. later

The fact is that there is a lot of pressure to perform now even with lowered expectations (7 wins). Craft gives us the best chance to win now and Bre makes us better in the long run. fans want to win now…it’s nature.

Nestor, you brought up a good point earlier talking about the silly procedural mistakes. Craft’s strength is his experience that makes him better equipped to deal with the false starts, etc. for all his talent, I think those hicups would shake Bre a lot more.

I don’t fault CRN for the choice. I think he’s doing what it takes to get to a Bowl this year. . I would have preferred to see Bre from the start. that said, I respect CRN for sticking to his guns. As good as competition is, it can play. mind tricks – especially with QB’S and CRN has said so since last year. I had the benefit of seeing a practice and being at the scrimmage (not that that makes me an expert). There isn’t any question Brehaut’s arm is a world away from Crafts ability. Personally, I think if Brehaut started against KSU, the game would have gone worse and we probably lose to Stanford anyway. But, I’m willing to take that and could tolerate a loss (if that’s possible) to see a young talent mature. For me, it isn’t a debate of “we know what Craft can do, let’s see Brehaut”. I’m willing to sacrafice a game or two this season because, I think next year is when we turn the corner. but, you can’t really do that as a head coach and you certainly can’t say that you are.

by bruin_nerd on Oct 4, 2009 9:28 PM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

one more point - this isn't Toledo-esque

Whether or not we want to admit it…the second Prince went down, we’ve been playing not to lose. Craft doesn’t have the arm to make a 4th and long. So, we run a Toledo-like play…difference is, we have Craft in the backfield, not Cade – no knock on Craft as a person. But, it isn’t the same thing.

by bruin_nerd on Oct 4, 2009 10:24 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

you might be willing to lose a few games but...

College football and recruiting are very fickle, and if we leave victories on the table for development, you’d better believe that it will hurt us severely in recruiting. The goal with this season is to win as many games as possible to show everyone (recruits) that we are moving in the right direction and make them want to come.

by westwood78 on Oct 4, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem with that statement is

that you are essentially saying that if we play Brehaut, we will lose. You give the kid a couple of quarters under his belt and you never know. Was Prince any different against SD St.? Craft is a known quantity and as well as he played Saturday, it wasn’t enough. (Due to other low points of our play). Personally, I would like to see what Bre can do. If Prince can’t go against Oregon, give Bre the start and run with him until he proves himself either way. We can always bring Craft in.

by LongtimeBru on Oct 5, 2009 1:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at the game, it was

good to see many Bruin fans show up, unfortunately, the team didn’t really “show up”.
A friend of mine who isn’t much of a football fanatic said, “I think Stanford won because they can through down the field, but UCLA just throws side to side.” I think that is Kevin Craft in a nutshell. When you are at the game you can see all the open receivers, and wonder why Craft still locks on one receiver. The defense crowds the line because they know he can’t throw downfield.

Our offense moves down the field, one first down at a time. It is tough to expect the team to score several touchdowns by sustaining long drives multiple times in a game. Stanford scored 2 touchdowns off long passes.

I remember the first game of the season when Kevin Prince threw the ball down the middle and deep several times. I was very excited by our potential. We have gamebreaking playmakers (e.g. Carroll, Thigpen, etc.) I hope they get more time.
BTW, I saw Kevin Prince walk across the street with the rest of the fans after the game. He looked solemn, and I just yelled to him, “Good luck next week!” He gave me a thumbs up. Hopefully, he is ready for Oregon.

by UCLA Championships Made Here on Oct 4, 2009 9:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Right now I feel very hrrmm about our team.

If you can just imagine Ward Cleaver rubbing his chin in consternation while a gutteral hrrrmm sound emanates from within. That’s how I feel.

My frustration with our progress is not so much about Craft as it just is. I think you said it best when you said,


A friend of mine who isn’t much of a football fanatic said, "I think Stanford won because they can throw down the field, but UCLA just throws side to side."

The truth is we were playing poorly before the Stanford loss, we just confused wins with quality. It takes a loss to expose your weaknesses. We were already settling for field goals with Prince at the helm. We were already making the kind of mistakes that turn 3rd and long situations into short ones or worse: 1st downs. We believed the win in Tennessee was bigger than it was. (Although I still think it’s going to be a turning point for our program)

The fact is I expected more. These are good coaches. And not just CRN and NC. Need I remind you that Bob Palcic, Carnell Lake, and others roam those sidelines? While we have shown improvement from last year, (we are certainly more physical than we were last year, and even more so than the year before) we are still not blowing anyone out of the water. That includes the SDSUs and KSUs of the world. These are schools we would have blown out of the water in the hey day of Cade McNown.

Our complete inability to score touchdowns is apparent regardless who is in the pocket.

A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden

by MexiBruin on Oct 4, 2009 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Our complete inability to score touchdowns is apparent regardless who is in the pocket.”

+1

by impaulv on Oct 5, 2009 4:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Craft or other?

The Kevin Craft/Rick Neuhiesel act at the Stanford game reminded me a lot of last year. Craft screwing up and Rick chewing on him when he came to the sideline. Is that what you want to see more of? I sure don’t. I think the two are like oil and water. Kevin may be the safe choice for the Oregon game but do we just want to not lose too badly again? I would really like to see Prince back in there. If he’s not available, let’s see what Brehaut can do.

by Keptycho on Oct 4, 2009 11:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Didn't look like Neu was chewing out Craft

In fact, the only time I saw him yelling was when he basically layed in to Embree for running an in when he should have been running a fade on our first drive.

by CAJason80 on Oct 5, 2009 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's the QB *and* the coaching staff.

I appreciate what Craft has done for this team, but the truth is, he just doesn’t seem to have the arm strength. Everything over 20 yards is a floater. And the lack of any sort of deep-strike threat (especially with some of the burners we have on this team) really holds our offense back. That said…

…so does the playcalling. The coaching staff is obviously trying to play it safe with Craft, but I think they’re playing a little TOO safe. It’s one thing to not throw it downfield like crazy, it’s another to go run-run-pass every series. Craft actually looks pretty good when we’re in the 2 minute offense and constantly throwing 10 yard strikes. Its helps immensely that we’ve got lots of good TEs and big receivers to catch those medium-range passes. Craft actually looked pretty accurate at times, and I wish Chow/Neuheisel would open up the offense a bit more.

Some of that is Craft’s fault… it drives me nuts when it’s 3rd and 10 and he throws a pass to a receiver on the line of scrimmage for a 2 yard gain… but I think if they open up the offense a bit, he’d be up to the task. Nothing crazy, just throw in some more dinks and dunks to break up the running on 1st and 2nd down.

Thing is, it doesn’t really seem that the coaching staff trusts Brehaut at this point either, so I’m not sure a QB change would help.

by Magnusblitz on Oct 4, 2009 11:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The question should be "Why didn't they put Bre in?"

Yesterday’s game was no fun to watch because of the vanilla offense. I wonder why they didn’t play Brehaut but I know they know more than I do. I have been speculating on this (but it is late and I’m punchy so forgive the jokes ;)

Possible reasons not to play Brehaut:
1) He doesn’t know the playbook well enough
2) He is too inconsistent and/or gets confused
3) His inexperience = too many mistakes/ gets rattled
4) His inexperience = lack of leadership
5) His inexperience = lack of self-confidence
6) His style of QB is not a good fit for our current game plans
7) They are trying to restore his RS
8) Whatever made him 3rd on the rotation keeps him off the playing field
9) Personality issues
10) Star Trek Aliens have infected his brain

by JonnyG on Oct 5, 2009 1:13 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You never

know what someone can do till you put them in the game. From what I’ve seen we have certain guys who are gamers, certain guys who do well in practice and a few guys who do both. I think we need to get Brehaut in to find out if he is a gamer. I think he is. We put him in for one series against SDSU and he completed a great long pass. They coaches really can’t fairly judge till they see him more in a game situation.

by captainqtp on Oct 5, 2009 2:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Tend To Trust Chow & Neuheisel

They see what’s going on in practice each and every day. KC’s already got a year of experience behind the center as well; something that Brehaut doesn’t have. Also, as I pointed out Saturday, Craft did not lose this game for us. Yeah, I wish we would have opened it up a little more offensively but we were still down only one score. We just didn’t get it done when we needed to. That, and all the freaking ridiculous penalties and mistakes did us in.

I DO hope we can get Kevin Prince back A.S.A.P. but I want him to be fully recovered and ready when he does get the nod.

Los Angeles Rams and the UCLA Bruins!!!!!

by Minnesota Bruinfan on Oct 5, 2009 4:33 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

QB contingency plan

Watching the game firsthand at Stanford Stadium, I could see that the offense when Craft is under center is very different than when Prince is in. Prince can air it out downfield, whereas Craft struggles in that department. The question then becomes, why does our #2 QB who is an injury away from being our starter demand a huge shift in offensive philosophy? I don’t question Craft’s heart, or his place on our team. He was a warrior on Saturday. But why should we expect such a conservative offense when he comes in? The coaching staff had a full year to prepare for this. They couldn’t expect Prince to play all year injury-free. Then, why not prep Craft better in the offseason? Why not focus on his arm strength? Why not work more on his downfield throws? Why not put ourselves in a position where if he has to come in, we don’t see such a huge dropoff in production?

Okay, I’m not being very productive by focusing on what we didn’t do. Let me shift to what I noticed on Saturday, and whether putting Brehaut in would have helped. Craft isn’t comfortable as a pure pocket QB. He relied on the short dumps to his TE’s and WR’s for short gains. His deep(er) passes came when he scrambled out of the pocket and improvised. This led to 3 and outs and put our defense on the field for long spurts of time.

Could Brehaut have shown something different? Possibly. Should he have had a chance? I think so. There was a point in the 3rd Quarter where we switched things up and put in Thigpen at RB. It was electric! He immediately made an impact with some good runs and just put a spark in our offense. That could have been a good series to bring in Brehaut. We weren’t finding production with our starters. Switching things up would have thrown something new at the Stanford D, and given our offense some energy.

Back to my original point, our backup QB’s should be expected to run the same offense as our starter. If they can’t, then they shouldn’t be backups. Maybe I’m being delusional, but why can’t we expect our #2 to play like Landry Jones instead of Brady Leaf? Again, we have had a full year to prepare for this.

I’m sorry, but I’m just a little frustrated after this loss. I’ll be a little more positive later today when I post pics from the Bruin Bash tailgate. Got some great shots of crowd, the band, and of course our cheerleaders.

by Kerckhoff405 on Oct 5, 2009 8:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If those things could be corrected, don't you think they would have been by now?

Some guys just don’t have certain skills. Look at the next level. For every Drew Brees/Ben Roethlisberger/Tom Brady/Peyton Manning there are probably a dozen nameless guys that can’t beat out middling starters on bad teams in the NFL. These guys just don’t have what it takes at a certain level to make it onto the field.

So why does our team lack depth? I think that’s easy enough to figure out. Doesn’t the fact that a senior couldn’t beat out a RS Freshman in the spring and is barely holding off a true Freshman now speak volumes?

by Tydides on Oct 5, 2009 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Audibles??

One topic I would like to bring up is the changing of plays at the LOS.
We seem to still have the problem of getting plays in late to the huddle. I am not sure if our current QBs have the knowledge or have been giving the ability to change plays. With the plays coming in late it really hampers the ability to do this.
This particular skill is invaluable and I feel is the reason most highly achieving offenses are run by veteran QBs.
I have not noticed any plays being changed. Does anyone has more info or insight into this matter.

by Rico Bruin on Oct 5, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Painful

Fact: CRN and NC have had to change the offensive scheme to accomodate KC
Fact: KC is not getting the job done
Fact: College football is big business, and requires tough decisions
A lot of you out there didn’t hesitate to condemn Dorrell (rightfully) without access to HIS data points. Yet, you sycophantically protect CRN’s very poor decisions. With regard to the Stanford game, UCLA had the opportunity to be sitting atop the PAC10 with a modicum of respect. It was apparent to me that this one would be lost very early on. Dumbed down play calling, ineffectual stategy, extremely average quarterback. It is mystifying to me, that under the circumstances, why CRN wouldn’t call RBs number. They literally had nothing (more) to lose. Others out there have posited that they may be attempting to salvage RB’s redshirt. I am not at all familiar with the requirements involved in such an undertaking, however, it would seem the only valid reason for keeping KC at the helm.

by ambitious on Oct 5, 2009 12:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I've had enough of the backup QB "controversy"

Changing QBs in the middle of a game, when your QB isn’t clearly stinking up the joint, is a sign of sheer desperation. It means you can’t figure out how to rally your troops and what plays to call to get you back in the game, so you just try a new guy. Are our coaches desperate? Already? I don’t think so.

You can NOT bring Richard Brehaut in this game for many reasons:

1. he did not have the reps with the first team all week
2. he had already lost the backup role to Kevin Craft
3. if he comes in and royally screws up, what do you do? Go back to Craft? You then would have managed to shatter the psyche of both of your back up QBs and basically your whole team in one magical quarter. Congratulations.
4. Kevin Craft helped UCLA beat Stanford in a very similar game last year…and had a chance to do so again.
5. Kevin Craft was not screwing up the plays that were called

Clearly, the game plan all week was to slow down the Furd running game, while playing ball control offense (remember “we will run the ball or die trying”), with short passes. You can’t all of a sudden scrap all that in the middle of a game and bring in a freshman QB to throw bombs when you haven’t even practiced it!

So, fellas and dames, let’s all take a breather. It was a tough loss because of the mistakes our team made and because it felt like the players didn’t give it their all until it was too late. But we’re 3-1, and we’ll get better. This loss will resonate with the team. They had been getting away with making mistakes and winning, but hopefully now they see the price of their lack of focus. It’s one thing to have coaches trying to make you understand at practice…it’s another to see the consequences on the scoreboard.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Oct 5, 2009 1:45 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Amen

Excellent points, emphatically stated.

by Bruinut on Oct 5, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you know when the players started giving it their all? I’d like to know what to look for this week.

by bru79 on Oct 6, 2009 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

0 interceptions, Craft did his job.

I would have liked to see them run the ball in for a TD on the first scoring drive. I think that would have changed the complexion of the game. But that’s a play calling change.

After that it was penalties and our defense wasn’t stopping the cardinal.

You can’t really blame Craft. He did about as good as anyone could expect him to.

by layout on Oct 5, 2009 3:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Controversy

Tasser, you seem like an equanimous individual and you make some very thoughtful
observations. Even though I tend to draw a much harder line (for better or for worse), your approach may serve the team better in the long run. I hope I am proved wrong.

by ambitious on Oct 5, 2009 3:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bruins Nation, an unofficial daily online scrap book covering the greatest collegiate athletic program in the nation. GO BRUINS.
Start posting about the Bruins »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

2603_1028618641249_1398823305_30086007_6195771_n_small
Slightly OT: How You Can Help Your Fellow Bruins
Small
UCLA WBBall Storms Back From 16 Point 2nd Half Deficit To Beat Ducks 91-75
Small
Thanks To The Two Tylers

Recent FanPosts

Ucla_small
So it begins: TH frustrated by CBH's system
Uclabear1_small
[UPDATE x2]Big News: Oregon's Masoli Reportedly Charged With Burglary
Small
Womens Basketball: 2009-10 Pac-10 Look Back, Pac-10 Tournament Preview
Jeff_mug_h2_small
SB Nation's Pac-10 Tournament preview
Small
Quick Bruin Backup NBA PG comparison
Joe_bruin_small
PMS Interview with CBH 3/9/10
Uclabear1_small
The Big Red Comes Home: 'The Next Reinvention of Bill Walton'
Small
Bruin Honors: Caldwell Wins Coach Of The Year, Dixon and Walker Named To All Pac-10
Small
The Bombs Away Award (for Most Undeserved Green Light)
Uclabear1_small
"UCLA is a dead team"

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

094_small Ajax

Uclabear1_small Nestor

Menelaus2_small Menelaus

Arron_afflalo1_small Tydides

Brad_pitt_as_achilles_small Achilles

Small Meriones

Telemachus_small Telemachus

Small Odysseus

Blue_bellerophon_small Bellerophon

Img_0052_2_small Patroclus

Authors

Images_small Ryan Rosenblatt

Official Partner of CBS Sports