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Funny WWL's All Time College Basketball Ranking Places UCLA At Number 2

So the Eastern Sports Programming Network teamed up with Sagarin to come out with an all-time ranking for college basketball's greatest program. Here is how the top-5 shapes up:

1. Kentucky 89.81
2. UCLA       87.57
3. Kansas    87.27
4. UNC         87.19
5. Indiana    86.79

Here is the PDF file of the entire ranking.

Uhmm. Okay.  Just a slight problem with this "ranking." It didn't provide any additional points for ... uhm ... winning "national titles." Fortunately WWL's own Pat Forde saw through the BS (emphasis added)

Sagarin says the all-time kingpin of college basketball is Kentucky, and he says it's not close. By his rating formula, the Wildcats are farther ahead of No. 2 UCLA than the Bruins are ahead of No. 7 Duke. The 2.24-point gap is the largest between any two teams in the entire 330-team ranking.

It's worth noting that Sagarin's formula counts NCAA tournament wins as double, but does not give any additional bonus for national titles, thus negating UCLA's advantage in that category. (The Bruins have four more national titles than the Wildcats, but trail 100-99 in overall tournament wins.)

Forde then had the courage to point out ... well Kentucky's baggage:

But Kentucky should not be No. 1. No computer takes into account a program's NCAA rap sheet, and the Wildcats have a long history of problems. They were given the de facto first death penalty, forbidden from intercollegiate play for the 1953-54 season. There was a point-shaving scandal. There have been multiple NCAA probations.

Kentucky also thrived for decades in an all-white league while African-Americans were taking over the game elsewhere. It's probably not coincidence that Adolph Rupp's long era of domination started waning as black players began to make their impact on the sport in the late 1950s and 1960s. Rupp's last national title came in 1958, and his last Final Four ended in defeat in the famous game against all-black Texas Western in 1966.

Forde went on to rank UCLA as the number 1 ranked program of all time, placing UNC at number 2, Kentucky at number 3, and rounding up the top 5 with Indiana and Kansas.

I am assuming Forde is taking a lot of heat from Kentucky fans over those observations. And I am also sure those guys are tossing around the old Sam Gilber nonsense ( batted back enough times here on BN, which you can look through the archives). For his part Coach Howland was gracious and diplomatic:

"Overall, over 72 years, having us No. 2, that's high up there on the list -- especially when you're not taking into account the national championships or times to the Final Four, which is more than anybody but Carolina," UCLA coach Ben Howland said of the two programs that have been to 18 Final Fours each. "We've won more national championships, and that's what all these teams are shooting for -- Final Fours and championships."

However, if you really need a simple explanation on which program is the greatest of all time, here is Coach Howland:

Ben Howland Explains Why UCLA Hoops is the Best (via blackjack8484)

There is nothing to add to that.

GO BRUINS.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

3 recs  |  Comment 16 comments |

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Utter ridiculousness

N, I saw this the other day and just laughed. Forde completely tore apart the rankings. The biggest joke was not that we were 2, but the gigantic gap between 1 and 2. Of course, whenever you are using an “objective” computer program to determine rankings, it is only as “objective” as the person choosing the programs parameters. I wonder how they will calculate the wins Kentucky gets under Calipari that are going to be wiped from the record books seven years from now.

On a related note, rivals.com has a season preview up today about UCLA and draftexpress.com had a rankings of top prospects in each conference with ML, DG, and JA profiled. I will try and get a fanshot up later today putting those together, but feel free to if you have time.

by bruinponcho on Oct 7, 2009 9:22 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Forde's chat

Forde has no problem defending himself either.

Marc (Charlotte)

So you are willing to discount Kentucky for their improprieties, but not UCLA and Sam Gilbert?

Pat Forde

Marc: Go ahead and lay out the facts related to Sam Gilbert and the penalties the NCAA imposed. Right now there’s a lot of myth and folklore surrounding Gilbert — and some of it might be correct. But as far as tangible penalties the program incurred from his involvement with the program? There are none. So let’s go with the record, and the record of NCAA compliance is not very kind toward Kentucky.

by bruinponcho on Oct 7, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

notice a certain "school"'s high ranking

some condiment colored “academic” institution is ranked pretty damn high. luckily, forde rips on that too.

by maccabita4life on Oct 7, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

25th...

WTF have they ever done to warant that high a ranking?

by King J77 on Oct 7, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Devil's Advocate

You have to take a long view with them. Boyd had quite a few good teams that could never even get to the tourney b/c of conferences only sending one team. They also had pretty good teams in the ’50s with guys like Bill Sharman. This is long before the time of most folks here.

by bru79 on Oct 8, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not every advocate advocates a solid position

So Devil, you lose this time. Justsc has done about as much in basketball as …, well, there’s not point in even using an analogy. They haven’t done, to use a technical legal term, doodley-squat in basketball. And Bob Boyd didn’t have quite a few good teams, he had one.

Theres a point at which you can’t go back further and real count it. You can say that the Greeks had a real good army for hundreds of years, but that wouldn’t be enough to get them in WWL’s list of top two or three armies.

by Fox 71 on Oct 9, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Garbage

when suc is 25th and UConn is in the 40’s, how much credibility can you give to this. Not much.

by BlueReign on Oct 7, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Gotta love that clip

Can’t wait to see Ben Ball in action. It’s been too long! N – Can we get a countdown, or what?!? :)

by Nars on Oct 7, 2009 5:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You guys are too close to things to appreciate the science involved.

I applied pretty much the same formulae to baseball, and came up with the folowing scientific results.

1. Rays
2 Dodgers
3. Royals
4. Yankees.

The gap between 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 were pretty narrow (with Dodger Dogs slightly tipping the scales, because you can’t get Bryant’s Barbeque at the ballpark in KC), but the gap between 3 and everyone else was enormous. Using these unassailable scientific thingys that ESPN used, I gave no credit for world championships, of course.

Bruins, you just can’t argue with science.

by Fox 71 on Oct 7, 2009 6:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

lol

William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.

by Ollie on Oct 9, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The worst thing about this

is that they printed this BS “juking the stats” thing in a book. It wasn’t some stupid off season internet silliness. This junk is going to be on someone’s coffee table and it should be completely discredited.

by littlebrother on Oct 7, 2009 9:09 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

11 National Championships

and all the rest of the unparalleled accomplishments of our basketball program speak for themselves.

10,000 fluff-peddling, two-bit, “objective” media types cannot state anything in unison that can shake these unassailable accomplishments. They rest on a foundation of pure athletic excellence and competitive greatness.

Troy will fall...AGAIN!

by Bruins102NCAA on Oct 8, 2009 9:16 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

National media already trying to hype Kentucky to another title

when this slime ball Calipari opens the gates and lets his goons take the court for the first part, ESPN is going to be all over it like a cheap suit. I fully expect to see Kentucky on national television once a week and hear these MSM announcers citing Kentucky as the greatest program in college basketball and Calipari returning them to glory

William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.

by Ollie on Oct 9, 2009 10:57 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If I get my wish,

I think it might be to have Cheatie Petie and Calipari get busted at the same time and do the perp walk side by side.

by Fox 71 on Oct 9, 2009 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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