Dragovic Needs To Focus On Getting His Life Together ...
by Nestor on Nov 21, 2009 9:28 AM PST
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Print... and concentrate on getting it in order off the court before getting back on it.
The LAT report provided:
Though Howland declined to speculate on how long the suspension might last, the coach said he would take Dragovic's earlier problem into account.
I hope CBH will do that although I would like to see the precise quote. I also found the following quote from Howland in the DN troubling:
"We were aware of the incident, but never had any idea that there would be anything filed."
That indicates to me Dragovic might not have told Howland the complete story when he first informed him of the incident. Right now I am with Fox 71:
If he did what he is accused of doing (and I don’t know what it was, but it generated a felony charge and $30K bail) then he should be off the team. If he needs counseling and hand-holding and whatever else, he should get nothing more than any other student who did what he is accused of doing.
A kid can screw up whether he’s a basketball player or not. If he is a thug (and again, I have no idea about this), then he should be a thug elsewhere. I don’t want there to be any chance an outsider might not notice a difference in the character of the players on UCLA’s team versus that of a certain team on the other side of town.
If he didn’t do it, then what he needs to learn (as pointed out elsewhere) is to stay out of situations where he can be set up. It’s unlikely that whatever he is accused of doing would have occurred in Powell, for example. (Although I guess you can get tasered there.)
Classic Fox. In the same thread Bellerophon followed up:
I understand he’s due his day in court, that he’s entitled to the presumption of innocence, etc., but UCLA is not a court of law. His conduct, on and off the court reflects the university and he should be taking precautions to avoid being put into situations like this, even where he may not have done anything wrong. You never heard about this kind of stuff with AA, LRMAM, DC, JS, etc.
Truth be told, I’m getting tired of ND pulling this crap. This is twice in two years. Compared to the rest of our Ben Ball Warriors, who have been great students, citizens, and players, I’m having a very difficult time finding any redeeming value in a guy who refuses to play within the team’s system (by jacking up stupid shots and playing lazy defense), who keeps getting into trouble (whether justified or not), and who shows absolutely no senior leadership.
This arrest is embarassing to the university and the program. I don’t owe ND the presumption of innocence, and right now, with this second, more flagrant run-in with the law (a felony, for Christ’s sake), he has to prove to me he’s worthy of those four letters before I’ll accept him as a Bruin again.
A lot of you may not agree with that, but I’m nearly at the end of my rope with this guy.
Pretty much agree with that sentiment.
Of course he is innocent until proven guilty. That said I just don't appreciate a UCLA student athlete getting in trouble with the law for two consecutive seasons. That should never be acceptable in Westwood.
In some ways this reminds me of the Cory Paus situation from 2001 when reports about his DUI came out before the game against Southern Cal. Toledo had already done the right thing previously when he suspended Foster after the SUV story came out (which in retrospect pales in comparison from the sordid allegations of cheating across town). However, Toledo totally whiffed it when he decided to not suspend Paus and let him play against the Trojies.
I really hope Howland takes Dragovic's previous record of getting himself into situations which he shouldn't into account in weighing his future actions. Right now I think Dragovic needs to focus on his getting life priorities in order before getting back on the court and I don't think Howland will send the right message if he doesn't take Dragovic's previous record into account.
To date Dragovic hasn't shown much in terms of playing like a classic Ben Ball warrior on the court. More importantly he hasn't carried himself like one off it. Until he shows definitive commitment on his part of wanting to be a upstanding member of UCLA as a student of this univeristy, Coach Howland shouldn't be giving him the privilege to purse a career as an athlete.
GO BRUINS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Word. rec'd.
Until he shows definitive commitment on his part of wanting to be a upstanding member of UCLA as a student of this university, Coach Howland shouldn’t be giving him the privilege to purse a career as an athlete.
I must add that it would also help if Nikola were to work on his shot while he’s working out his personal matters. :)
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
UCLA should be known for zero tolerance against these kind of incidents
as much as USC is known for 100% tolerance with these kind of incidents.
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
it's not the charges that concern me.
After all Mark Sanchez was never charged with sexual assault. (But we all “know” he did it.) It’s the conventional wisdom that where there is smoke there is fire. This is the second time ND has had an “indiscretion” while at UCLA. Like everybody else, I was not there and don’t have direct knowledge of what happened. But, the reports coming out are enough to concern me.
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
With all due respect, my Bruin Brothers and Sisters
Some people find themselves in the smoke of fires for which they have absolutely no responsibility — ask anyone who lives in Malibu or on a Santa Barbara hillside.
Perhaps my perspective is warped by having spent many years teaching and practicing criminal law.
People do get wrongfully arrested. People do get wrongfully charged — even with felonies.
And, as mentioned by others, the stigma often lasts longer than the charges.
For example, all of you who believe that ND “beat up” his girlfriend, last year, raise your hands. Come on, no hiding now, some of you have mentioned it in threads after this “incident”. Last year, when the facts came out, it was shown that he had not hit or “beat her” up.
Also, I have yet to see facts from any authoritative source that violence was involved in the current matter. I’m surprised by this. Felony charges are not sealed or kept secret. You’d think that someone would know the allegations and present them before calling for his head.
Think this is all a matter of my “academic warp” or too solid grip on the Constitution — and that none of this should apply to a ball player?
Think back a few years. Many people here were ready to ostracize MJD because of reported, but totally unfounded, allegations that he was involved in a violent incident.
Don’t believe me? Do a search on MJD.
Now, he is a Bruin icon. He’s the same guy. Some attitudes here were changed when the facts cleared him.
Let’s let CBH handle this without all of the pontification and advice from us.
I think Nestor’s point was that whatever the facts, ND has some issues to deal with that may take precedence over BB. That’s his decision and CBH’s and let’s let them take care of it.
Needless speculation, labeling, and speculating here simply creates a stigma that does nothing to serve UCLA or justice.
sjh
PS. Mexi — my very respected brother, this is not aimed at you. It was a convenient place to put this response
sjh
We have to agree to disagree
Also, I have yet to see facts from any authoritative source that violence was involved in the current matter. I’m surprised by this. Felony charges are not sealed or kept secret. You’d think that someone would know the allegations and present them before calling for his head.
First of all, you have to remember that in California, a police/arrest report is not public information. The great majority of police agencies in this state will only release an arrest report to the District Attorney’s Office or a individual connected to the report (i.e. defendant’s attorney, victim, etc.).
From what I can tell, he has been arrested, but the D.A. has yet to file charges. So the only information we would have about what happened can come from only two sources: ND himself or the police report. As I mentioned above, we’re not going to see that.
Second, even when and if the D.A. files charges, you forget that in California, a complaint need only plead the language of the code section. For example:
On or about January 1, 2010, in the County of Los Angeles, State of California, the defendant, JOHN SMITH, did commit a felony violation of Section 245(a)(1) of the Penal Code of the State of California, in that said defendant did who did willfully and unlawfully commit an assault on FRANK JONES by means of force likely to produce great bodily injury.
What does that really tell you? Not much. How was the crime committed? Who did what? Did Mr. Jones provoke Mr. Smith and Mr. Smith respond with excessive force? There’s no way to tell.
The bottom line is that we may not ever get the full story. If ND takes a plea, the D.A. and ND may decline to say anything public about it (as is the case with 99.99% of crimes). If there’s a trial, then we’ll get the story, but even then, not the full story. We are never going to know exactly what happened, so it’s unfair and unrealistic to tell us to withhold judgment until we “get all the facts.”
I understand people are wrongfully arrested, charged, and convicted. I don’t dispute that. But I am not a court of law. I am a Bruin fan, and in your opinion, perhaps I’m being unfair or speculative. I agree I might be. But, to me, where there is smoke, there’s fire, and I have a very hard time thinking that ND is 100% not at fault for what happened.
Like others have said, maybe he’s innocent. Maybe he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. But twice in two years is embarassing. There’s more expected than simply not getting convicted. That’s what they praise at U$C. I know I, and others here on BN, expect more. We expect our students and student-athletes to not put themselves in situations where there is the potential to have incidents like this occur.
ND has had two run-ins with the law in two years. DC had zero in his four years as a Bruin, and zero so far as a pro. JS, JF, AA, LRMAM, LMR, AA2, all with not a single run-in with the law. Maybe someone got a speeding ticket here or there, but no one has been hooked up for even a misdemeanor.
The bottom line is that twice in two years ND has shown a complete lack of maturity and wisdom in putting himself in these situations.
Like I said, I may be unfair to ND and it may be speculative, but twice in two years tells me where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Until I see otherwise, I think he needs to be suspended indefinitely, and quite frankly, I’m at the end of my rope with him.
He’s due his day in court. But he’s not due one in the court of my personal opinion.
by Bellerophon on Nov 22, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
And, Disagree Back --
People on BN have written that he was “charged” with a felony. A DA does the charging and so I assumed that there was a formal declaration of a crime that let people know it was a violent act.
Your correction works in my favor — he’s just been arrested, not charged. We have a way to go before we know what the allegations are.
He was arrested last time and not charged. But not until there was a lot of wailing, hand wringing and pontificating here about how we should punish him.
As to your point about being in the “wrong place” — how can the Hollywood Bowl be a “wrong place”.
With all due respect, and you admit it, you and others here are just speculating — another way of saying creating a fictional set of facts to which you all can respond with gusto — all to the detriment of ND and UCLA.
This is the same rush to judgment we had last year when people created stories of ND beating up his girlfriend — stories that were more a projection of the teller than an accurate depiction of what ND did AND people who made up stories of how bad MJD was and how glad they were that he was no longer a Bruin.
There is absolutely no harm to any of us to shut our mouths, stop making up stories, and to sit back and wait to see what turns up AND to let CBH deal with it, as he has been.
sjh
You're being too literal...
…to say I mean the Hollywood Bowl is the “wrong place.” What I mean, and what I assume most readers take from it, is that ND has found himself again in the middle of a situtation involving law enforcement. Obviously, going to the Hollywood Bowl itself is not nefarious, but my point is that, he found himself somewhere in the crowd, and that part of the crowd is where a fight broke out.
I’m not saying he’s going to seedy dive/biker bars or drug houses in South Central. My point is merely that once again he found himself in the middle of a s**tstorm, the kind of which guys like DC, JS, and the rest of our Ben Ball Warriors never found himself in.
I think the position myself and others are taking is that he keeps finding himself in the middle of these problems. I understand where you’re coming from, but in my opinion (emphasis on it being my opinion), it’s not some coincidence that he keeps winding up in these situations.
Moreover, the point Nestor and I have made, both re: this incident and the one from last year, is not that he needs to be “punished” but that he needs to be suspended, not for his conduct, but in the best interest of the team. Criminal charges are no joke: his attention should be focused on maintaining his grades and dealing with his legal situation, not playing basketball. At the end of the day, basketball is just a game. A criminal conviction is with him for the rest of his life. Second, whether he’s innocent or not, that’s not relevant. What is relevant is that, whether we wish it was or wasn’t, it will be a distraction, one this very young and inexperienced team does not need.
I think there’s a major difference in what I’m calling for now, suspension until the legal matter resolves, and what I would call for if he was found guilty of the offense. If he’s guilty, I want him gone. No more scholarship. No more basketball. No more UCLA. Period. If he’s guilty of the crime, I want him off our campus, for good.
66, you’re entitled to wait and see. But I don’t have to follow the same course. And likewise, I don’t have to follow the same legal rules our court does. To me, in my mind, in my opinion, he has to prove himself worthy.
I hope he’s in the right. I hope he makes me eat crow. I hope he hits a big shot to win us the Pac-10 title. But right now, in my mind, I’m fed up with seeing him run into these incidents.
Suspension Is A Punishment
With your knowledge of the criminal justice system you, of all people, know that it may well take months for the wheels of the criminal justice system to travel the path toward a resolution as to whether ND is guilty of a crime or not. By that time, the season will be over and he will have lost his senior year.
In my initial post I said that I had no problem with a decision by ND and CBH that would take ND away from the team so that he might get his head straight — if he needs to.
I disagree with you, and others, who want to take that decision away from CBH and who are calling for suspension. CBH knows the facts. No one here does.
I trust CBH and believe he has the integrity to protect both UCLA and ND at the same time.
I have not mentioned the presumption of innocence or proof beyond a reasonable doubt in any of my posts in this thread. I am not calling for the application of “legal standards”.
Instead I am asking people to presume that CBH knows what he is doing and not doubt that what he is doing is reasonable. I’ll stand with the Caretaker anytime.
sjh
PS. Anyone who thinks that only guilty people get arrested, charged, and convicted may want to take a look at some of the recent DNA cases, the work of the Innocence Project, and some of the revelations that innocent people have, in fact, been executed after having been wrongfully arrested and convicted.
Yes, this case does not rise to that magnitude — but for those of you who have a blind faith in the police and prosecution all I can say is that I hope you are never in the wrong place at the wrong time.
sjh
I'm not placing blind faith in the police
But CBH has suspended ND for the upcoming game against Pepperdine, according to reports below. So, by your logic, CBH has deemed a suspension appropriate. What I’m calling for is a suspension from basketball until his legal situation is resolved. I’m not saying he should be turned out of the university, but he should be barred from basketball, for his sake and the team’s.
As I see it, CBH should keep him on the sidelines until this situation is resolved. Yes, the wheels of justice turn slowly, but ND has a hand in that. Once he is charged, and I believed he has, he’s entitled to be arraigned within 48 hours. Once he enters his not guilty plea, he has the right to a preliminary examination (a probable cause hearing) within 10 court days. Once he is held to answer at the prelim. exam. and the complaint is deemed an information, he has the right to a trial by jury within 60 days.
He can insist on those rights and force his case to trial. When the wheels turn slowly, the defendant has just as much a hand in it by choosing to waive his or her right to a speedy trial. But that’s besides the point.
The point is that, again, in my opinion, and I cannot stress enough that this is my opinion and nothing more, ND should sit untl the legal situation resolves, especially given this is not the first time he has found himself in this kind of situation.
Finally, I don’t see suspension as a punishment. He’s not entitled to play basketball. In fact, he’s not really entitled to a free education and UCLA. Those are both privileges granted to him in exchange for him being a student-athlete who follows the rules and properly represents the university. I think the suspension is the best course of action for protecting this young team and for giving ND the necessary time to sort out his situation. In my mind, punishment would be turning him out from UCLA entirely. To me, suspension is the proper course of action while the investigation is pending, just as police officers are put on adminstrative leave when their conduct is in question.
by Bellerophon on Nov 22, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
More information
Apparently, I was somewhat wrong with my information. According to the L.A. Times:
Los Angeles County district attorney’s office decided to file a felony assault charge against senior forward Nikola Dragovic.
So ND has in fact been charged with a felony. I went to L.A. Co. Superior Court’s website, but unfortunately, unlike many California counties, they do not provide an online criminal case tracking system. That said, a criminal complaint is public record and it is available to be copied at the courthouse, so if any SoCal Bruins are interested in looking into it, you could track the record down if you wanted.
Now, if the L.A. D.A. felt filing a felony was appropriate, it indicates one of a numer of possibilities, since ND has no criminal record (which is usually a mitigating circumstance causing a D.A. to file as a misdemeanor battery): (1) the amount of force used was severe, (2) a weapon was used, or (3) there was great bodily injury.
I’m not saying for sure and I’d love to take a look at the criminal complaint, but because of L.A.‘s antiquated system, that’s not possible right now.
But it does say, that at the minimum, there is probable cause to believe ND committed a felony assault. It’s disconcerting that he would be in a situation to even give probable cause to believe he committed a crime. Like I said before, DC, JF, AA2, etc. never found themselves charged with a felony, so to a certain extent, even if innocent of the crime, ND is culpable for putting himself in that situation.
I think you guys are both skipping the key non-legal aspect of this
Did he do the act or not?
Sure, anyone can be arrested and charged for anything. He could have been on a different continent, but that doesn’t stop an allegation from being made. And sure, any defendant can beat any particular case because the government failed to prove something or because the jury was determined not to convict for whatever reason.
The issue here in the BN shouldn’t be about the probable cause for an arrest or for the prosecution and eventual outcome of a criminal case. In my opinion, the question should first and foremost be whether he did the act he is alleged to have done. To go to the ultimate extreme, OJ would have been suspended from just$c*s football team for a quarter or two once he was arrested for murder (well, maybe not), but would have come off the bench in a second after his acquittal. That acquittal, as we all know, had absolutely nothing to do with whether he committed the act. The criminal justice system is skewed so heavily in the way it absolutely should be skewed that it should not be the litmus test for athletic eligibility.
The issue is whether he did it or didn’t to it. I think that should be left to Coach Howland to decide. He doesn’t have to tell us what anyone tells him or what he decides or how he decides. My recommendation, if he were to ask for one, would be that he tell the public absolutely nothing one way or the other, and either keep the suspension the way it is or lift it, and he should lift it only it he determines that the preponderence of the evidence (the civil standard, not the criminal standard) suggests that he did not do the act. Then let the criminal justice system run its course.
That’s just my two cents worth.
It's all good SJH
I have thick skin and I can tell the difference between a healthy debate and a mean spirited attack. As always, I enjoy reading your well thought out arguments.
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
I'm not ready to kick him off of the team
but suspended until there are more details and everyone knows exactly what he’s facing is the right way to go IMO. At that point, kicking him off the team may be the right move, but I don’t think doing so now is the right thing to do.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Nov 21, 2009 10:56 AM PST reply actions
Yeah
I should probably clarify my post a bit. I am not ready to kick him off the team yet. But I am not going to be very sympathetic to him right now. I am going to wait for details to reach a final judgment on him but right now I don’t want him anywhere near a court and I want him to show us that he is serious about acting like a Bruin.
My thoughts on the matter, as well.
I believe that any ultimate say on the matter has to wait, at least until we have some idea of what actually happened with this incident and led to charges being filed. If a final decision on Drago’s status is not delayed pending resolution of the legal process, we should at least give the administration time to gather available information and see if there the felony charge has basis, and then act accordingly.
Until the DA’s office and UCLA administration work through the above, a suspension is the proper move for CBH to make.
2nd major incident
So off the court, strike 2 in a major fashion.
On the court strike 3 already. For as long he’s been on the team, have seen very little positives from him. His play isn’t exactly inspiring. Anyway, need to see if the charges stick, either way suspended for a while, possibly indefinately.
From the little facts we have, I'm inclined to give ND the benefit of the doubt
While I understand everyone’s frustration with ND both on and off the court, let’s look at the facts.
1. He was only charged with a misdemeanor after a fight with his girlfriend. These charges were later dropped.
2. He filed a report on this second incident before anything ever happened. This to me indicates that he likely was not the instigator in this incident.
3. CBH didn’t think it was a big deal. Now you can say that ND lied to CBH (and filed a false police report afterward), but based on ND filing the report, I’m more inclined to think that CBH really didn’t think it was a big deal.
I hate to see this type of thing associated with UCLA. I am reminded of the saying of a successful criminal defendant after a case “I’m glad I won, now where do I go to get my good name back?” The first incident was dropped. We really have no idea on this second incident, but from the limited facts we know, it seems that ND at least did the right things after it.
Finally, not to get too off topic or distract from my main point, but I cant help but to contrast this with Randall Carroll’s critical twitter comments. The general consensus was that he was just a young kid and made a mistake (despite previously being suspended a few weeks earlier). With ND, the thought seems to be “good riddance.” I cant help but to think that people’s biases as fans are strongly influencing their opinions on proper punishment. Carroll is a star recruit who hasn’t done much, but has a lot of “potential.” Conversely, ND is a shooter, which some people naturally hate since they don’t understand the necessity of a player like him to a team, and did not play particularly well in his first few games this season. I guarantee if ND went for 25 and shot 5-9 on threes it would be a much more “wait and see” approach from bruin fans. Just something to keep in mind.
Randall said some stupid things...
… but nobody is accusing him of hurting anybody. Difference.
And honestly, as an alum of UCLA, I’m less concerned with winning and more concerned with character and learning. A suspension need not be punitive in nature, but a teaching tool and allow him time off the team to get his life in order. And refocus his priorities.
Go Bruins!
Moreover,
Dragovic’s incidents happened while he was an upperclassmen who I am going to hold to a slightly higher standard, especially since this year we were counting on him to lead the way for our frosh and sophomores .
Fair enough
We can debate on whether two incidents over four years as opposed to two in the first five weeks is worse.
And the comments prove my main point. Once someone’s good name has been tarnished, even by unsupportable accusations, it is impossible for them to get it back. I know you can say where there is smoke, there is fire, but if this was ND’s first incident (seeing how the charges of the girlfriend incident were dropped, I view it as a fresh first accusation), then I think he would get more of the benefit of a doubt. Like I said, from the little we know, it seems that ND and CBH believed it wasn’t a big deal originally and if anything ND was the one wronged. I wish reporters did a better job of finding out if the other party in the incident has been charged as well.
by bruinponcho on Nov 21, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
Bad assumption to make
As counterintuitve as it may sound, criminals do very stupid things that get them caught.
He filed a report on this second incident before anything ever happened. This to me indicates that he likely was not the instigator in this incident.
That doesn’t mean anything to me. There are a lot of times when a criminal committing a crime can also be a victim, or perceive themselves to be a victim (classic example, drug dealer shot during drug deal gone bad: he’s still a drug dealer, even though he’s also a victim, he still should go away for dealing/sales/transportation/etc.).
For example, say some jerk started a fight with ND. Let’s say this other guy hit ND first and ND hit the guy back. The fight ensues and blows are exchanged. ND gets the upper hand and then wails on the guy, just beats the s**t out of him. Yeah, ND didn’t "start" the fight, and he may feel entitled to reporting the instigator to the police. That being said, when he used excessive force (beating the tar out of the guy after the fact), that isn’t self-defense, but a criminal act. Fox is an old school attorney: he can explain it to you in a better way than I can.
I’m not saying that’s what went down, but I’m just pointing out that your assumption is flawed. First, because criminals often do dumb-a** things that get themselves caught, and second, because if the above scenario played out, you’d expect ND to report and then get busted. In fact, in said hypothetical situation, he may have told CBH that he got into a fight, the other guy started it, and he hit him back, but omitted the beatdown afterward. CBH may have figured, that’s too bad, he wasn’t the aggressor, he was defending himself.
Just a thought.
Also, if ND was "the man" and just knocking down shots, I’d still want his a** off the team for this garbage. If DC pulled this crap, I’d call for his head too. This stuff doesn’t fly at UCLA. We’re not U$C and we don’t turn and look the other way when we need a star player (Reggie Bu$h, Dwayne Jarrett, OJ2, etc.) on the field/court.
by Bellerophon on Nov 21, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Re. your last paragraph
The same reason I didn’t want Ricky Manning (who was a great CB) around our program after his “incidents” became public. Just don’t want that nonsense around our athletic programs where athletes can think they are above the law and can get by because of special rules.
Poncho I'm with you.
IIRC, last year ND was arrested for a misdemeanor but ultimately not charged. I may be wrong, but I don’t think the DA charged him.
I, too, believe that because ND is not seen as an effective player he is seen in a less sympathetic light. Frankly, were I CBH, I’d have cut his minutes before this happened. But, I’m not and CBH knows a lot better than most of us who should be playing. I think his value to the team should have nothing do do with the way this is handled.
And, I think that, once more, since no one knows what the “incident” was — and all we know is that he was charged, we ought not jump to conclusions.
Let’s wait until we know more to advise CBH as to what he should do. And, when we do know more, I’ll bet that CBH will do the right thing.
sjh
PS. We still don’t know what our 4 FB players did to get the suspensions. CRN handled it correctly and I don’t hear anyone complaining about the outcome. These are two coaches with a lot of integrity. They will do the right things.
sjh
Your responsibilities as a UCLA athlete aren't limited to not getting charged or convicted
They include making sure your actions reflect positively on UCLA. Two public incidents involving alleged violence, one against a female, show me he has failed and need to be punished.
I don’t know what severity of punishment is warranted because I don’t have the facts, but even getting to being publicly charged is punishable in my opinion.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Nov 21, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
Court appearances
Unfortunately, poncho’s statement that there would be more of a “wait and see” approach with ND if he were raining and draining 3’s is probably true. To this, I would remind all Bruins that we must separate his appearances on the court at Pauley from his appearances in the local court house.
Whether ND is playing well or not is totally irrelevant. The only relevance here is his legal situation. We are not the $chool* across town which has different legal and ethical rules for star athletes. Justice, like the SPTRs, is blind. ND will get his due process, and being a Bruin athlete does not entitle him to anything more or less.
CBH has chosen to suspend ND following his recent arrest. I am certain that CBH has the integrity to apply the same punishment to a starter and to the last man off the bench. We, as fans, should follow this example.
I expect the legal system to do what is fair and appropriate in this case. I hope the best for Nicola as a person, and not as a basketball player.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
+1
That’s my concern when I see a lot of posts around here talking about his legal issues and what may or may not have happened, and then throw in that he hasn’t been playing well as an afterthought. It may not be their intention, but mentioning it even as an add-on to their point gives the impression that there is some sort of equivalence between his on court and off court problems. I expect not only our coaches and athletic department to treat student-athletes the same in these situations regardless of their on court/field performance but I also expect that of our fanbase, and I’m mildly disappointed right now.
I'm glad to see that we DON"T own the police.
Would be ashamed to show my face at the office if I went to an institution that did.
Most of You are Missing Part of the Story
So far I haven’t heard a mention of anything that would indicate what “kind of a kid” ND is. Sure he’s had two run ins with the law in two years. Sure he’s a “shooter” and doesn’t either like or can’t play good defense. And yes, maybe he isn’t the typical BBW we so desire and admire. But he’s also a young man from Serbia (not from middle class America) who is trying to do something in a foreign country that isn’t altogether easy to do. I would like to know more about his academic pursuits and any other aspect of his life that isn’t focused on either basketball or slugging people. I would like to hear from someone who actually knows Nicola tell us what kind of person he is. Does he also torture animals? Does he attend classes regularly and get decent grades? Or is he here in Westwood simply to hone whatever bb skills he has with a goal of playing pro (probably in Europe). There’s alot more to a person that the two dimensional profile I’ve been reading on this blog and I think its time someone steps up and shows Nicola a semblance of understanding before rushing to judgment (and I don’t mean in the legal sense).
by classof67 on Nov 21, 2009 4:45 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well said...
I hope I’m as wise as 66, 67 and 71 some day. We should all remember this is a person we are talking about, with family, friends, ups and downs, just like the rest of us. I trust CBH to handle this appropriately, unlike the plantation owners to the east…
Howland's exact comments re: Dragovic
have been put up in a Fanshot. I can’t figure out how to get the embed code to work in these comment sections.
by insomniacslounge on Nov 21, 2009 8:03 PM PST reply actions
Dragovic Should Be Benched
Dragovic shouldn’t play again primarily because he is a bust as bruin and he is not that good. He has had good moments, but it is better to play young freshman or sophomores than never-materialized seniors at this point.
Now, he has also been arrested again. As a citizen of the United States, he deserves to be innocent until proven guilty. No question about it. But as a citizen of the UCLA basketball team, especially one who is taking a scholarship from another player, you have to be held to a higher standard. Getting arrested once is unacceptable, twice, unconscionable. I don’t care if he really did “nothing criminal” in either case. The facts are he is putting himself in situations to get in trouble, and that is enough of a reason to sit him. Let him keep the scholarship, get him counseling, help him as a person. But no more playing.
However, I still think from a purely basketball perspective he shouldn’t play either.
Presumption of evidence versus judgment and the operation of an ethical business enterprise
A lot of these comments draw the real distinction. In a court of law, he is presumed innocent.
But Coach Howland and the UCLA Athletic department are not a court of law. They are responsible for operating a major business, one we respect. A key employee, player, coach, cheerleader, or mascot who is the subject of two criminal investigatons, two arrests and a felony charge do not fit within the successful business model of profit making elements of educational institutions. This becomes more pronounced in the context of team sports where there are additional overarching layers of interpersonal dynamics.
In moments of difficulty (and this is one), leadership and the truth are the ways out. The truth we do not know; we do not even know the details of the felony charge (only it involves an assault at a Hollywood concert and bail was posted in the amount of $30,000) . But Coach Howland is a real leader and he will make the tough-minded calls necessary to preserve the integrity of UCLA basketball.
by peggysue69 on Nov 22, 2009 12:54 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Dragovic Suspended for 2nd Game vs. Pepperdine
According to AP Press Release, ND will be on the bench in street clothes for tomorrow’s game vs. Pepperdine. CBH declined to comment on the charges against ND who has hired an attorney. ND is apparently very apologetic for the whole incident
Do you have a link?
For any of the information you’ve provided? I think it would be an interesting quick read. Thanks!
Here is the AP wire story
via WWL:
UCLA will extend Nikola Dragovic’s suspension for at least another game following his arrest and subsequent charge of felony assault.
Coach Ben Howland said Sunday that Dragovic won’t play Monday against Pepperdine, although he will be allowed to sit on the bench in street clothes.
The 21-year-old senior from Belgrade, Serbia, was arrested Friday and charged by the Los Angeles district attorney’s office for his involvement in an undisclosed incident last month at a concert in Hollywood.
Howland declined to provide any details on the incident, saying it would be inappropriate for him to comment on a pending legal case. Dragovic has hired an attorney. […]
Dragovic was set to attend practice Sunday, but not participate in his first reunion with the team since being arrested.
Howland said he met with Dragovic after Friday’s game.
“He was obviously very apologetic and felt terrible about this entire situation,” the coach said.
Haven’t seen anything yet on whether the DA is filing felony charges against him.
It looks like he's being charged
At least from the LAT:
Los Angeles County district attorney’s office decided to file a felony assault charge against senior forward Nikola Dragovic.
I think the fact he has a felony charge actually filed is pretty significant. At least he has hired an attorney. Even if you’re totally guilty, you need an attorney in the system.
by Bellerophon on Nov 22, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
If a charge actually has been filed ...
… then he shouldn’t come back on the team until it is resolved.
For Classof67
Read the community rules before posting here again. If you attack any of the posters or moderators here on BN, you will be gone. Given how many warnings you have gotten you will not get another chance. For the record this is the first warning you are getting from me and you will not get another one. Thanks.
I Guess I'm Not Aware of How things work
OK, so now I know why the power to ban rests with Nestor. His site, his power. No argument there. I am a neophyte when it comes to things like blogs, chat rooms or whatever these on-going conversational websites may be called. I didn’t even think that someone created it and owned it (so to speak) and therefore controlled it to that extent. My only other experience has been with MLB and believe me they put up with some pretty junky and personally offensive stuff. My next question has to be, if it wasn’t Nestor that warned me (see above post by Tydides) then who was it and who else has the authority to do so? Finally, let’s get to the crux of the matter. Since it seems my “offensive” post did not get published, and I don’t have a copy of it, we’re now discussing something of which most of you have no clue about. All I can say about that post is that as a professional, published writer, with the sensibilities of a modern American, I can remember absolutely nothing in it that came close to either being a rant (maybe verbose, but not a rant) nor a personal attack. Yes, I did mention a particular users screen name for reference, but I surely did not attack that person in a mean sort of way. I have found much of this rather amusing in so much as my post (the one that got me warned) was in defense of ND’s need to be treated fairly as a young, perhaps naive, certainly impetuous newcomer to America, and asked the community in general if there were anyone out there whose hands were perfectly clean. BTW, the reference to Nazi’s was not mine. In my post following my warning I referenced another post and for that I am sorry. I assume the poster of that term is now persona non grata. And one final BTW (yes, I can be verbose — learned that at UCLA writing in blue books), I don’t know what you mean, Nestor, when you say “Given how many warnings you have gotten you will not get another chance.” since to the best of my knowledge this was the first.
AGAIN
Read our community rules. You can get a warning or be banned by any of moderators on BN (who are listed at the bottom of this blog). The rules are not up for discussion.
You are welcome to talk UCLA sports and all things Bruin here on BN but you have to post within the rules. This is not a public square or townhall. This is pretty much like an online bar for Bruins … where you have to follow the house rules. This will be my last comment on this topic. Please move on.
Thanks.
The "mods" so to speak
Are the people whose names are on the very bottom of this page. I can’t for sure say why the person that warned you found your original post offensive because it was deleted so I can’t speak to that. If the person that warned you wants to expand on this, I’ll let him do it. From what I know about him, he’s not one to hide his opinions so I’m sure he’ll respond whenever he checks the site.
Ty, you know me too well
I’m not one to hide my opinions, as classof67 knows full well after his warning. I don’t recall your post verbatim 67 (I don’t keep a running log of inappropriate comments I delete from trolls or inappropriate users) but it went beyond the other stuff you had posted in this thread. Unfortunately, I don’t know of a way to pull up deleted comments. If I could, I would.
Like I said in the warning, I don’t care if you disagree with other users. But the comment I deleted, in my opinion, was a directed attack on another user. It wasn’t based rational evidence, logic, or a fair inference drawn from known facts. I read it as an emotional attack on another user who expressed an opinion you disagreed with it. Plain and simple.
Nothing you said “offended” me, but BN is not the place where one user can blast another user (which you did with your emotional rant about folks not giving ND a fair shake and being judgmental) without good reason. I understand. We all love UCLA and we love our programs. It’s understandable to get emotional about it at times, but please try to keep it in check. Trust me I get it. That’s why I warned you, not banned you. Although I do admit I accidentally banned you at first because I checked the wrong box in the page we moderators have access to that allows us to run the show. Hence, the ban, then the unban, and the warning. It should have been a straight warning. Think of it as a soccer referee who accidentally pulls out a red card, puts it back, and then pulls the yellow.
Again, you are more than welcome to disagree with one another. And you can see above, 66 and I do it all the time. But I respect him and his points of view. I understand where he’s coming from, and he knows where I’m coming from. But we respectfully disagree on the subject. That’s fine. Just next time you do it, please keep it rational and not a directed attack on another user with a valid opinion. Thanks.
by Bellerophon on Nov 22, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions
Two more cents worth
I don’t know what you said that got you warned, but I know that you can say just about anything you want without getting banned or warned or having your knuckles rapped if you do it in a professional way. You can call someone an SOB, but if you do, I think you should be ready to demonstrate evidence to support the assertion. I know from personal experience that you can disagree with any of the moderators.
Maybe that’s only one cent worth.
Thanks, but I'm still clueles
I will wait to hear something from the mod as to what he/she found offensive or unprofessional. I really wish they could also dredge out my post from the bowels of the site and send it to me (via email) so I can see it again for myself. Sometimes it happens that one goes off and doesn’t even realize how bad it was. But I’ve never in my life had to be warned that I was offensive to anyone (in writing that is) and I remain bewildered as to what caused this warning. If, as Fox 71 notes, you can call someone an SOB (albeit with evidence to support the assertion — that’s kindof funny in and of itself) than please, my post fell way way short of that standard. Til I hear more this will end my comments on the topic as well. Let’s get back to the substance of the original post.
Drago filed the original police report.
I read this a few days ago and found it very interesting, if maybe not revealing. But I haven’t heard anything further about it. Seems to me that if true, ND did not have the “mens rea” or state of mind that would warrant a felony indictment let alone conviction. Seems more like he felt victimized somehow and believed he was doing the right thing. This, along with what I’ve read about his behavior and attitude since Friday’s arrest leads me to plead once more for some kind understanding. This isn’t Ron Artest we’re talking about.
See my comment above
I know 66 will call me on it (because it is pure speculation), but you could imagine a situaton where John Doe starts a fight with ND, hits ND without reason, and ND responds by hitting the guy back in self-defense. After John Doe is subdued, ND continues (which would be understandable, given the emotion and nature of young men) and kicks the guy a few times in the ribs and causes some serious injury.
Obviously, you could see why ND would feel like he was a victim and would report it to the police. He got hit first. But, under the law, you can only use self-defense in an amount of force to stop the threat. Any extracurricular activity is a no-no and could be the reason for the criminal charge.
Now, for 66’s benefit, I will again warn that this is a big hypothetical speculative situation. I am not saying this happened. I’m just using it as an example of how ND reporting it first could make total sense and he still be in the wrong. Think of it as a teaching example 66. You know what I’m talking about. ;)
by Bellerophon on Nov 22, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, but does ND have any history of "going off" on someone?
OK, he was accused by an exgirlfriend (not an unusual occurrence), but was not charged. Clearly no excessive force in that instance. Doesn’t anyone on this site have any upfront in person knowledge of the man? Frat brothers? Roommates? Teammates? Classmates? No one is talking about Drago as a real life person. I want to believe that he if was the kind of person who would kick someone when they were down, then that type of personality would have shown itself somewhere else and he would have a rep for being lets say “out of control” or “over the top.” I haven’t heard this from any source so I choose to see the better side of the man.
The Person Who Knows Him Best
is probably CBH. And, that’s why I trust him to handle this properly without the advice of any of us here.
sjh
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