[UPDATE x2] Ben Howland's UCLA Parts Ways With Drew Gordon (Talented But Hotheaded Forward)
by Nestor on Dec 1, 2009 5:55 PM PST
in Basketball
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PrintHey guys, our week just got even better!
Uhm, well this story is just, uh BREAKING (not behind a subscription firewall):
Drew Gordon, the sophomore post player, is no longer a member of the UCLA basketball team and will transfer, according to UCLA.
Coach Ben Howland discussed it today at his weekly press conference.
After several discussions with Drew, we both have decided that it is in the best interest of our program and Drew that he continues his career at another school," Howland said. "He is no longer a member of our team and will transfer at the end of the quarter.
"This is not a spur of the moment decision and, ultimately, it's what's best for both parties."
That was on BRO. Looks like the story is also up on Sportsline.com (via The Newbster).
Drew Gordon, stat wise has been the best player on this team. However, he has had issues controlling his temper and showboating a little too much on the court. Plus, it struck me as weird how he was taking 3 pointers with lots of time left on the clock in back to back games, when it was clear he wasn't doing it within the flow of our offense.
Either way there is not much information out there right now on this big news. We will be posting updates as they are available below the fold.
I tend to be on the optimist side when it comes to Ben Howland. So my gut reaction right now is that I am hoping this is a stark signal from Coach Ben Howland that this was about sending a clear signal re. who is in control at UCLA.
GO BRUINS.
UPDATE (N): Per the LAT, Gordon's departure means more mins for RN:
Freshman Reeves Nelson will fill some of the gap created by Gordon's departure.
"He has a lot to learn and he knows this," Howland said. "This is going to increase his playing time dramatically."
I like the sound of that. GO BRUINS.
UPDATE II (N): WWL's Andy Katz has more on this story which includes the following key graph (emphasis added):
According to a source with direct knowledge of the situation, Gordon's conduct was detrimental to the team. He was not viewed as having positive energy in the locker room. Yet, during last weekend's 76 Classic in Anaheim, the UCLA staff said Gordon had to be the focal point offensively in the post.
HT to qazplm3. Katz also adds that Gordon could be headed to San Diego State and that he "would likely fall to a Mountain West destination unless a WCC school is willing to take a gamble on him." GO BRUINS.
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Even assuming that CBH made the right decision for the program here
This is another recruiting miss from that class. His scouting, evaluation and recruiting in recent years is something that deserves a second look right now.
Formerly ryebreadraz
Hopefully Gordon being a (UCLA) bust
means an opportunity for another recruit from that class, Bobo, to prove that he is not one
There will be chances out there
but in reality, there have been some chances, even in a smaller role, for a couple years now. CBH’s scouting, evaluation and recruiting has not been up to par and I don’t think anyone would disagree. Seeing the development of our freshman and sophomore classes, as well as the guys who come into the program for next year, will be very interesting.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Well as of right now
I think we’re really basing this off of one class; the highest “rated” one he’s had so far, that has been a disappointment. It’s way to early to pass judgment on the freshmen IMO, especially with the most highly touted of them not playing. Before that, he’s had a great track record, and the seniors we have now can’t necessarily be called recruiting “misses” since I don’t think they were ever meant to have the roles that they have currently. But if this freshman class doesn’t pan out, there will certainly be questions raised from me as well as many others I’m sure.
The sophomore class isn't panning out
What should be the junior class was Kevin Love and Stanback. Love, great get, but we knew he was a one and done. Stanback was a miss. The senior class was Dragovic, Keefe and Westbrook. Wetbrook was a great get, but Dragovic and Keefe have bother fallen short of expectations. Neither are guys you usually expect out of a UCLA program. The junior and senior classes weren’t awful, but they weren’t at a high enough level to keep UCLA at the place nationally or even in conference that most expect from our program. Now, the freshman class will be very interesting.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
I think we're sort of talking about two different things
The seniors right now are playing up to about where I expected of them coming in. I guess I’d always expected that we’d recruit certain role players. But now that I think about it, there are other programs that don’t do that, and from where I think you’re coming from is that we should always be getting top shelf talent like they do and I agree with that wholeheartedly. I also see the trend that you’re talking about and it is unnerving to me. I agree that this upcoming class MUST be a big one now, and the way we’ve lost players, we really need to bring in the better athletes. That means we must recruit nationally. McCallum would be a good start.
isn't that an overreaction?
Seems he has been able to compete with top schools for some of the most highly touted prospects (Love, Holiday) and turned some largely overlooked players into first round draft picks (Collison, Westbrook).
That's all fine and dandy
but take a look at the sophomore class, the three guys who have transferred after being highly touted (Gordon, Stanback, Wright) and some who have fallen short of expectations and you have a lot of holes in the program. Take a look at his recent recruiting record and compare it to the top programs in the country. CBH’s falls short recently. Is it just a spell of bad luck? That’s very possible and I’m not saying that CBH isn’t good enough to maintain excellence. All I am saying is that there is a definite trend right now and it bears watching.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Next year is trending up
Ryan, I don’t want to get in a full blown war over CBH’s recruiting (7 NBA players in 5 classes so far). Plus, with Josh Smith and Lamb coming in next year, that is two more highly recruited players that CBH has lured in. I’d say that is trending up.
We are definitely going to need more at this point
I hate to type this, but where McCallum and Ziegler were very big targets before, they seem to be almost must haves now. The turnover in this program is unlike anything I’ve seen, and being left out in the cold with those two would make for a very unbalanced roster in the years ahead.
It's 7 NBA players in 5 classes
but counting Holiday and Love in that is misleading because we knew coming in they were one and dones. They weren’t program builders or program cornerstones. Also, you can’t hit on one or two each class and strike out on the rest. Recent years (and by recent, I mean the sophomores, juniors and seniors) have produced classes that aren’t good enough to be the nation’s elite.
As good as Love was and even Holiday, they must be graded down from a recruiting standpoint because they were definite one and dones. So, knowing that they would be gone after a year, are the rest of the guys he’s brought in been good enough to have a very successful program? There’s no way you can argue yes.
Even assume that Westbrook stayed for four years, as most expected when recruited. Is he the difference between where we are and where we want to be? Recruiting isn’t judged by the guys you put in the NBA. You recruit to help your program succeed and right now, it’s not succeeding because of numerous recruiting misses, either because talent was misjudged or the emotional/social/mental ability to mesh with the program was misjudged.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
If RW was the point guard right now, this would be a very different team
The difference between JA and RW is like the difference between Gold and tinfoil. If he was a senior right now and everything else was the same, we would likely be Pac 10 favorites.
Your two points are in conflict. On one hand, you say that our recruits have been disappointments. On the other hand, you say that we need to recruit better players. The problem with that is, you cant have a team of all stars. There has to be role players. If you only recruit top level talent, some of them are going to have to fit into role player positions. These players will then be labeled disappointments. You cant have it both ways.
In the current recruiting environment, coaches have to recruit role players that they know will be around for 4 years (such as MR and JK) and find top level recruits to fit around them.
When you recruit role players
you want them to excel in a thing or two and have a defined role, as the title of it would indicate. What’s Keefe’s role? What does he do very well? What is Dragovic’s role? What about Roll? Those are three role players, but they don’t excel in anything in particular. The closest thing we have out of those three is Roll excelling as a shooter, but he’s under 40% for the year from three. He shot well from distance last year, but when you’re brought in as a role player, you can’t excel at your role one out of four years. The recruiting of our role players hasn’t been very good.
Three transfers in four recruiting classes isn’t a good sign either. Those are outright busts when they happen and that’s happened to us now. When you’re giving away almost a recruit a year, it’s not a good sign. With struggles in finding the role players we need and the good, but not great one and done players, the recruiting has been lacking. JS was a highly touted recruit, but most expected him to be around for three years minimum. Where is that type of player in recent years? Very good, but not gone right away. Good programs are bringing in 2 or 3 a year and we haven’t gotten one in a while now.
Of course, this all excludes the freshman class because it’s faaaaar too early to judge.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
So you are really just judging the sophmores and non-existent juniors
MR’s role is a shooter, he does that fairly well. ND’s role is a shooter, he isn’t doing as well this year. JK is a glue guy who does the little things, but needs stars around him to be effective. Those are their roles.
Yes the KL and Stanback class was weak because KL was a one year player and Stanback was mentally weak and not cut out for CBH. The sophomores came in entitled and with bad attitudes, but ML, JA, and JMM still have a lot of time to redeem themselves. You have to remember that it is a lot to expect sophomores to lead a team to prominence (although JF and AA managed to).
I think the JS type players that you are asking for are this years freshman class. None of them are turning pro this year, likely none of them next year. Thus, they will all be around for at least 3 years and the program will be on an upswing then.
As I said earlier
I’m not saying that the program is going down the tubes. What I’m saying is that it bears watching what is going on with recruiting. Would you say the sophomore class was good enough? At this point, no. The junior class? No. The senior class? No. That’s three sub-par classes in a row. Does Kansas, North Carolina, UConn or the other premier programs have three consecutive classes falling below expectations like we have? No.
As I said, this could very well be an aberration, but I don’t think you could argue that the recruiting has been at the premier level recently and we’ll have to keep an eye on whether or not it gets back to where it was.
As for MR, ND and JK. MR has had one good shooting year in four, although there is plenty of time to turn it around this year. Is one out of four effective years good enough? ND looks on track to have one effective year out of four. JK is a glue guy, fine, but he has not exceptional skill. You really do want one exceptional skill from a role player. Is he a great defender? A great rebounder? Can he knock down shots? He’s not a bad player, but he’s not the type of role player that you want. You want him to come in and fulfill a role and accomplish a certain thing. It’s almost as if his goal out there is just eat up some minutes without really hurting the team.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions
You have been wacky lately
Have you been watching the games? I agree we are terrible but I keep reading the threads where you argue with people and half of your posts make no sense, as if you were just guessing but hadn’t seen the game.
As to MR: His role is shooting, passing, and understanding the offense. He does all that well. He is shooting 39% for 3 point land, which is great considering hes having to fight to get shots off because there are no other offensive threats on the team. He’s been our second best player this year behind DG, so I don’t see how you say MR is a bust. He works hard and does everything that was expected of him as a role player.
UCLA '08
39% is solid
but nothing extraordinary. It’s not the percentage of a great three point shooter. As a role player, I want a guy to be exceptional at something. Roll is a solid shooter, not an exceptional one. When we brought him, we thought we were getting an exceptional shooter. He’s not a bad player and he’s extremely valuable to this team, but I wouldn’t call him a great job of recruiting a role player.
Also, if you want to say I make no sense, then come with some substance and actual evidence. Don’t just call things out and say I make no sense. Tell me where I make no sense and support it. Don’t just throw things out there.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions
evidence
like listing a 3-point percentage for the season?
right…
I see what you’re saying about being not being exeptional, but I think Roll would shoot around 45% if he was on a great team. Role players arent as good when they arent just role players anymore.
Humphrey from Florida for example…great 3 point shooter but he was wide open every time he shot but he was surrounded by an amazing team. It took Roll awhile to figure things out and prepare his legs (so he wasnt as good his first two years) but if he was on a great team now, I’m confident he would be a great role player.
UCLA '08
When I say provide evidence
I don’t mean in the one comment you just made. I meant it in response to this comment:
“Have you been watching the games? I agree we are terrible but I keep reading the threads where you argue with people and half of your posts make no sense, as if you were just guessing but hadn’t seen the game.”
So try that one again.
As for Roll, it’s not as if he’s been a bad player, but when he is the gem of your current role players, three of which are seniors, you’re struggling.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Of the players that make at least 2.5 3FGs per game, and using last season’s statistics:
39% puts Roll at 80th in the country (38.3—his percentage this season, at 90th)
45% puts Roll at 50th in the country, and although he is not open for some of his shots we have also been playing against weak competition so far.
He has some ability to pass, but I would have to agree with Ryan in that he is not exceptional in any facet of the game. As such he should not be the best role player at UCLA, which he is.
Thank you for doing the research dokein
As I said, it’s not as if Roll has no value. I like him and he does some things well, but he’s not the type of player you hold up as the gem of your role players. Unfortunately, that is the case for us.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions
Well i overstated that
I don’t think youre off on JK or Drago… But i do think youre too hard on MR.
JK is worthless though.
UCLA '08
please explain your ideal recruiting strategy
do you want us to go after KL, JH et al, or not?
what do you want us to do when we uncover a talent (e.g. RW) but he doesn’t stick around?
I love the idea of recruiting blue chip recruits who are content to play limited minutes for a year or two before becoming the dominant juniors and seniors in the nation, as part of an ever-continuing domination of college basketball, but I’m not sure that is within our constraint set.
I think it's best to keep RW out of this discussion
I don’t believe he is the difference between struggling for .500 and winning a Pac-10 title as poncho does and we’ve had one RW-type player in CBH’s tenure. The other diamonds in the rough (DC, LRMAM) stayed at least three years so they don’t fall into that RW category.
Moving past that, I have no issue bringing in a one and done. That is fine, but who are you putting around your marquee one and done or even two and done? Players like JS who are going to be around a few years, but are very good need to be brought in and it needs to be a couple of them a year. A marquee player or two, plus a couple very good, but not quite dominant NBA player, plus a role player with a distinctly great skill every year or two is what you’re aiming for.
With the uncertainty of player defections, you can’t afford to miss on many guys. Even the fourth of fifth guy in a recruiting class may be counted upon a year or two down the road to step front and center because of defections. Our problem now is how many misses we have. With the exception of our sophomore class, CBH has done a good job with the marquee player from a class, but it’s after that where he’s struggling and that’s why we’re paying now.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
Struggling for .500?
As bad as that sounds the reality is worse. Bruins might be struggling to make .333.
I agree with you Ryan
and I would say that this program is probably at least 2 years from returning to an elite level.
Howland is basically back to where he started in 2004: Rebuilding. Let’s see if he can do it again.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
I agree with your statement
As a whole it definitely needs to be questioned. However Howland has developed quite a few less heralded players, so I would wait until at least the end of this season before giving up on last year’s class. We haven’t really seen much of Bobo this year and players make the biggest jump between fresh and soph year. He obviously still has a lot to work on, but if he has the right attitude I think he can do something with some more experience. Also, this class is looking much more promising than last year’s.
Undoubtedly
We’re not near the stage of saying that CBH can’t get it done. Nobody is calling for him to be fired or giving up hope on the program, but it’s now a trend of misses in recruiting and it’s worth watching.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
I think
It will be interesting to see how he closes this year’s recruiting class and the trend lines on basketball court. I can’t believe I am writing this but right now I will take a winning season.
I'd say this news recalibrates everything
We may be in “duck and cover” mode a lot faster than we think. We really need to tear up the recruiting trail now, because to make up for the early defection, transfers, and guys that didn’t pan out, we’re thrice in the hole. McCallum and Ziegler would be a good start to get that momentum back, but at this point, we very well may need both.
Not only that
I hope we have contingency plans in place in case we don’t get McCallum or Zieglar. That was a huge mistake from last year when we didn’t have one in place when Holiday left and we missed out on Gaddy.
This brings up a dilemma though
At least for this class, do we go with a contingency plan even though that plan might not be top flight talent? It seems like it’d be necessary, but that also seems like how we ended up relying on role players like Drago and Keefe.
JA was the contingency plan to JH
The problem with contingency plans is what happens when they dont work out. JA was the contingency plan in case JH didn’t stick around for a sophomore year. The problem is there is no backstop after the contingency plan given how few scholarships basketball teams have.
Terrence Jones would be huge too
A few nice players won’t cut it anymore. Smith and Lamb are a good start and with Gordon out, there will be five spots available. That means we have three more and two almost need to come out of the McCallum, Ziegler, Jones category. If we miss out on McCallum, I’d still love it if we got Jordin Mayes.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
I saw a "pointguardU" youtube interview w/ McCallum
in which he said he said that he and trey (Ziegler) were best friends. Since we absolutely seem to have spots for both of them, that could be an edge in recruiting them over some of their other options.
Yeah
That’s a topic we will have to get to. At least his recruiting hasn’t been the same since Keating left.
Good point about Keating
I always liked him and was hoping we could retain him for as long as possible.
wow
I’m stunned. Terrible week for the program. Hopefully this is the last of the bad news for a while.
Don't mind
if I cry now. This is too much in a 5 day period. CRAP!
"The entire world that bleeds blue and gold ... they have been dying for this." - Coach Rick Neuheisel
If Cbh did this
I appreciate his stedfast standard. This shows class compared to cheaty petey and win at all costs with whatever players
by TheNewbster on Dec 1, 2009 2:18 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I never have
questioned CBH, not on slow offenses or quick timeouts, and i will not question him on this. If he says it is best for the program i believe him. Lets see what bobo or RN can do for this team
by Hackun12@aol.com on Dec 1, 2009 2:22 PM PST reply actions
Cant say that I'll miss him
I have never cared for DG’s attitude. Last season, he never really seemed to recognize his role as a freshman backup thinking that he was the leader of the team (despite DC, JS, and PAA being around). This season, without those leaders I was worried that his attitude would infect the rest of a young, impressionable team. For all of his hustle play on the court, this very well could be an addition by subtraction for team chemistry that can be fruitful in the longterm.
Yep
All the showboating after dunks, jacking up 3 pointers. He was never a typical Ben Ball warrior. Right now it looks like the class of Holiday and Gordon came with a grand sense of entitlement. I sure hope Lee, Anderson, and Bob get with the program.
Definitely
They bought into the hype. They were the number 1 class. JH was gatorade player of the year. JH was going to be a lottery pick. ML is going to be a lottery pick this year. JA doesn’t take personal accountability for his shortcomings.
Really, of all the players of that class, JMM seems to have the best attitude. Hopefully he can make the most of his new opportunity.
I would say that this years class has the exact opposite mindset. RN is very blue collar. BL reminds me of a mini-Pau in skill and demeanor. MM seems very team oriented. Dont know enough about TH yet. And AS considering redshirting shows where he puts the team over himself.
Speaking of AS, it will be interesting to see if the redshirt comes off now or if RN, BL, and JMM just get more playing time.
Yeah good point re. AS
this news definitely changes the dynamic re. initial decision to redshirt him.
Stover time
Hope we didn’t jinx things.
Wow. This is a strange development. It makes sense with some of the signs leading up to it, but it comes as a surprise. It raises Drew Gordon questions, and also CBH questions. I guess we don’t have to worry about the DG questions. There’s a program, you sign up for it, you get with it or you get out. Now he’s out. End of DG discussion.
But the CBH questions are trickier. There was the idea floating around that JHoliday knew he wasn’t ready for NBA primetime and could have helped himself quite a bit by playing another year a la RW, but he didn’t want to spend another year playing in the CBH program. Again, that’s a JHoliday (bad or questionable) decision. But what does this mean when it’s set beside this DG meltdown? Is CBH especially tyrannical and demanding, more so than other tyrannical and demanding kingpin college coaches? Is there something flawed about his program? Is it too tough somehow, or were these guys just a bad fit? Enough guys have gone through it and it has been successful enough that we shouldn’t question it. The JH-DG combo is probably just a one-two punch of particular players, with DG’s problems compounded by the exodus of talent and the Bruins dim prospects for this season. Losing compounds problems.
I like what you’re saying, poncho, about the differences between the JH-DG-JA-JMM class and the current group.
And yeah, this will shake things up with the big guys, and ND’s extremely poor play has to be factored in, as well as JK’s mediocrity—all the things in the discussion before this happened.
The possibility that AS might help out and contribute in a meaningful way is still a tiny target, but the chances for seeing him and him having the opportunity to show something just became much bigger.
Reeves Nelson is ready to go, more or less, and we’ll get to see a lot of him. He’s not nearly as strong and effective as DG, but he can make plays. BLane will get extra minutes too. Big shakeup. Should be interesting as well as pretty ugly.
Gordon
I think the most egregious on-court mistakes that irritated me about Gordon was not boxing out consistently for rebounds. And that leads me to another disappointment I had with him – he did not look like he worked on his body at all this off-season. For a guy being counted on to play among the bigs, he certainly didn’t work on developing a stronger body. Despite all of that, I’m disappointed to hear him leaving and hope for the best.
I know PAA is Alfred Aboya, but what is the P for?
I once saw someone refer to Alfred as “Prince” Alfred Aboya, but isn’t it Luc who comes from royal lineage?
President Alfred Aboya
In honor of his political aspirations
by AllHailMightyBruins on Dec 1, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
WoW
I’m in shock, serious shock… Are we more depleted that SUC now? GEeeeeezzzz
Because CBH has been
incredible and led this program so well over the past years…..especially after having to endure Lavin…….I will trust in him that this is the right move. However, he is using up his abundance of collateral quickly. Just talking about DG’s potential and ability, he is a stud. There must be something more where he is directly questioning CBH or not getting along with his teammates. He must be a bad influence, because I gotta believe that CBH would attempt to fix whatever is wrong.
With that said, I believe in coach, but I am no longer blind to the fact that the program is sick right now and it is in some desperate need of some medicine to fix it. Maybe this is it. Who knows. What I do know is that CBH has not done well in evaluating talent as of late, his in-game coaching and style is confusing and frustrating at times, and he is stubborn as hell, so who knows if he’ll fix it.
We’ll soon find out as CBH, with this move, is gambling that he can fix it and this will help. I sure hope so coach, cause right now it is hard to see.
by muircoach on Dec 1, 2009 2:30 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
+1
my feelings exactly.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Dec 1, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
We thought all long there was poison in this sophomore class
The feud with the seniors last year, the total lack of improvement. I didn’t suspect Gordon was an instigator, especially since he’s the only one who improved over the offseason.
I’ve never been a fan of his, unlike many here. I don’t like stupid players. But he was the only sign of hope from this class this year, and I thought good things were in store from him. I do not look forward to watching Bobo play, but obviously something needed to be done about the attitude among the sophomores.
The question about Bobo
Whether he will commit himself during practices. Hope he and others get the message.
I wonder why there was no warning move
Like an indefinite suspension or something, before banishment from the team. I mean Gordon has started every game. This is very odd.
Exactly
The fact that it seems so sudden despite CBH’s quote to the contrary is my big question here. If there was discussion around this for some time then why keep him starting?
I thought DG was a strong, raw player with a lot of potential, mostly because of his athleticism and passion. I thought his back to the basket game has improved since last season as has his defense. But he still has a ways to go, especially in a Howland-style system.
The only thing I can imagine is that he doesn’t like to lose and he lets his teammates and perhaps coaches know about it. And this would certainly be a CLM under CBH. Still, at minimum a suspension should be the first step I would think.
Bruins Forever
I don't know if its about work ethic
I look at Bobo’s body and think there isn’t going to be a lot of improvement in quickness or agility. I think he is big, but i don’t see the athleticism to get much better.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Dec 1, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Where is the surprise? And who is kidding whom about Bobo?
DG said last year that UCLA had to pick up the pace…play faster ball. I dont have the exact quote, sorry, but he said CBH would have to adjust. I knew there was a problem right then and there. CBH is not going to adjust his system to a player.
And Bobo looked awful on Sunday. He just does not seem to have his heart in it. There is no sense of urgency, no sense of passion. Here is Jon Gold’s take:
“2) What specific skill issues are keeping Jamison Morgan from earning playing time? Is it attitude, effort, lack of defensive skills, or what? What specifically does he need to improve? – anonymous
From what I’ve hear, because I haven’t seen a ton of him this year for obvious reasons, he might just lack that killer instinct to survive at this level. I don’t think it’s necessarily a lack of effort, perhaps just a lack of that fire that burns in all great players. That said, athletically I’ve heard he’s highly skilled, and if he can figure out the other aspect of it, he could contribute.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
One other crazy thing
Drew Gordon refused to warm up with the team before the second half of the last 2 games. He simply sat on the bench. I dont know if that was his standard approach but we did notice it Friday and Sunday.
I am not trying to say I saw this coming….just that there were clear signs of tension with DG.
This is NOT good. i think he has great potential.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions
He does that a lot
I saw him do it earlier this year and very often last year. I think it’s just his thing, not a matter of tension.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions
OK I had never noticed before
I thought it was unusual because he had sat for so long with his fouls.
So I guess I should nt make too much of it.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
Recruiting
You have to wonder if Howland’s coaching style is better directed towards “diamond in the rough” type players (DC, RW, LRMAM, AA2)…guys that have chips on their shoulders and are ready to work. Maybe these highly ranked prospects just don’t gel with CBH because they think their talent will win out over hard practice.
I agree with the point re: Keating…he got after it on the recruiting trail.
One thing
The all-world recruits (KL and JH) can do fine in this program. It does seem, though, that the next level down, the players who should have talent but think of themselves too highly, haven’t thrived.
Holiday was not a KL level player
He never proved himself on the court and he got drafted based on his potential.
Speaking of Holiday
I hate spreading internet/message board rumors, but…..
Another forum claims that Holiday has been interacting w/ Gordon and Lee and encouraging both of them to transfer. If there is any truth to that rumor whatsoever, then whatever defense I had of Holiday’s tenure at UCLA has effectively come to an end.
Again…just an unsubstantiated message board rumor. But disconcerting nonetheless.
by insomniacslounge on Dec 1, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
If there’s any truth to that at all, then that’d put him with Lavin as far as how he should be treated by the program. However, I do think that we can’t read too much into internet rumors.
Not premium info
And probably was irresponsible of me to bring it up. But here is where I saw it (actually, an in-law who is a Cal fan sent it to me…dammit).
by insomniacslounge on Dec 1, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
This thread on BRO
I haven’t had a chance to read more recent threads on BRO, but this thread I read yesterday has some of those rumors:
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=12&f=1735&t=5211273
it is from the premium board.
by truebluebruin on Dec 1, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, saw that too
Guess we will have to see. Everyone knows I am not a big Holiday fan but need to see something more than that before we can give credence to this here.
You're right
the rumor is unsubstantiated. But it is something that makes you think. And IF it is true, it really connects a lot of the dots that make you wonder about the mindset and attitude of most of the 08 freshman class.
by truebluebruin on Dec 1, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
The same JH who is performing so well that the 76ers are planning on resigning Iverson
Cant wait to here JH complain about how playing behind Iverson is holding him back. Of course, JH was also playing (or sitting on the bench behind) behind the legendary Lou Williams, so…….
I just hope
that Josh Smith is of the KL level and Tyler Lamb is the disrespected player like Afflalo. We’ll just wait and see…
JESUS!
Something about Jake Dean (football) and two other juniors leaving UCLA football! – per a blocked story on Scout.com
WHAT GIVES??!?!?!?!?!
That's not a surprise
They had finished up school (graduating this year) and them leaving means we get 3 more scholies to hand out this recruiting season. So relax on that front.
Ok, whew. Thank you.
In that case, congrats to Jake!
Thank you for preventing me from having a heart attack at 20 years old, ha.
CRN is still working to get his recruits in the program
Expect a decent number of transfers or players ending their football careers because they aren’t in position to play next season and the coaching staff wants the scholarship for a recruit.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, this is good news
because it means we are going to have more recruits than the current open schollies. This moves us from 17 to 20 schollies available.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Dec 1, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
I expect it more in football
Redshirts are common and not everyone exhausts eligibility because they finish school.
I liked Gordon
But I don’t think it’s the end of the world now that he’s gone. I want to see what RN can do with extended minutes (PLEASE DON’T START DRAGO BEN, PLEASE).
Unfortunately
This pretty much solidifies the fact that Drago will be starting for the rest of the season (assuming his legal issues are cleared)
I am just numb right now re: UCLA athletics . . .
Failure to protect the Bruin Bear
$UC* game result
Cheatey Petey’s B.S.
Bowl uncertainty
0-3 in the 76 Classic
Stale offense in both FB and BB
JA
Gordon’s gone
Football transfers
This has been the worst 7 days as a UCLA fan since I have been a Bruin (September, 1987). Can you say rock bottom?!?!
I sure hope this is rock bottom
But each day seems to produce a new abyss.
It’s ok, tho…we still have women’s water polo!
(tho even there, we’ve lost our coach…..sonofa…)
by insomniacslounge on Dec 1, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Hope this Doesnt mean
Drago gets more PT?! smh
by BobbySteels on Dec 1, 2009 2:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Thats the million dollar question
Likely: JA, ML, MR, JK, and RN
What I would like to see: ML, MR, ND, BL, RN
I like that too
Honeycutt steps right in when he comes back
by Hackun12@aol.com on Dec 1, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Starters
That’s a problem—this will probably slow down the process of getting JA out of the starting lineup. And it solidifies RN as a crucial big, as a PF, rather than trying out whether he can play the wing. It will add to the minutes that ND and JK will get, just when those minutes might have been sharply reduced, especially for ND.
Likely: JA, ML, MR, JK, RN
WIWLTS: ML, MR, JK, BL, RN
and head towards ML, MR, BL, RN, and JMM or AS, with JK, JA, ND coming off the bench.
It should be
ML, MR, RN, ND, JK. I know ND has been bad and maybe we shouldnt give up on JA but one change has been made and another should be made as well. Just my opinion anyways. Probably JA over RN to answer your question
by Hackun12@aol.com on Dec 1, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH S&*T!
What the hell is going on? This is really sick! For the last week it’s like I’m getting kicked in the balls every day!
What?!?!?
I guess the numbness from this weekend is wearing off cause I can feel the slap.
Did anyone have any inkling this was even a possibility? I don’t see how to read this and think anything other than CBH kicked him off the team. As for why, we are left to guess. Maybe DG’s impulsiveness will get him to spill after he picks a new school, because I don’t think CBH will give any further details. I don’t have any idea what is going on, but something is clearly wrong at Pauley.
I’m gonna go dig a snow cave and sit there for a while. Someone come get me when there is some good news.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
N, do you at least get some nitrous out of the deal?
If so, then for at least a lil’ while, you’ll be the happiest Bruin around!
by insomniacslounge on Dec 1, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Bottom line
I don’t think Gordon was ever as good as he thought he was. I didn’t see any improvement from last year, but I thought it was probably related to his offseason injury. His discipline hasn’t improved at all.
It’s a bummer, because I liked his ability and that he was a norcal guy like me, but CBH knows best. We aren’t in the locker room and we don’t know the details, but I don’t think CBH would do something as drastic as asking someone to leave after going into his home and recruiting him unless it was warranted.
by AllHailMightyBruins on Dec 1, 2009 3:02 PM PST reply actions
Disappointing
The timing is terrible for this kind of news… especially for the only returning player that showed some marginal improvement. This will be Howland’s toughest season to coach yet.
Howland Recruiting Departures
Howland has lost a lot: transfers, unexpected and early departures to the NBA, and Kerry Keating to Santa Clara..
Keating leaving must’ve created a great void in identifying recruits suitable for Howland’s system. What kind of good recruits has Scott Duncan landed that has really helped the program?
I suspect part of hiring Duncan was to land Kevin Love.
This is going to be an interesting season. But I’m glad Howland did housekeeping early on so he can settle the roster and work with a squad this 100% committed to winning within his system.
Wow! 2
Do you think this has anything to do with CBH’s style of offense. It’s apparent that DG loved to run on the basketball court. Maybe this slow pace of play got him discouraged. Like I’ve said before, top recruits end up at programs like unc, kansas, uconn, villanova, msu, etc. who like to push the ball up the court. Does UCLA need to step it up offensively?
Thats because DG's range is only about 5 feet
And even then, he somehow managed to miss multiple dunks this year. I think this was more about attitude than offense scheme. It also appears to be CBH’s decision, not DGs.
Gordon was the only player we had with post moves. Sure it may have been 5ft, but that was his game. That soft hook was working well.
by LouisianaBruins on Dec 1, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions
Not true
Rn showed some nice moves in the 76 Classic. He has a lot more offensive potential than I thought
I hope so!
All I’ve seen from RN is layups and dunks. I have not see a soft jumper, spin move, pump/fake yet. Hopefully that will come.
by LouisianaBruins on Dec 1, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
Great outside shot
I am from the same town that RN played in high school. Watching him the last couple years I am surprised to see such an inside game from him knowing how good he was in high school from the outside
by Hackun12@aol.com on Dec 1, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
Good to hear this
I thought he was an inside-outside type of player, with rather weak high school competition, but a big time scorer. Others here have said that he’s strictly a post-up and inside player, but I had a different impression of him. He doesn’t have the size or correspondent girth to play only inside and as a post, and it would have been surprising for him to be recruited as such an undersized post player. As a wing/SF who can also play some PF he will be much more effective. Using him as DG’s backup at center sent a strange message, but CBH wanted to find a way to get him out on the floor, and he plays so well inside that it made some sense. Let’s hope he gets more opportunities of all sorts with this shocking development, and his role isn’t overly limited.
I'm in shock
I really am. I rooted for Drew Gordon since we’re both from San Jose, but I really didn’t expect this.
I may need a few days.
from what i hear from certain ppl
who i dont want to name, bobo is mulling transferring as well. Don’t write it in stone, but thats just some of the whisperings ive heard
Do you have any support for this rumor
I know people are in a panic right now, but throwing out telephone rumors that you read from some other person on a message board really isn’t productive.
And Ryan and Nestor, I'm dissapointed in you guys for jumping on this.
You two both always callout people for unsubstantiated rumors.
Two things
First, I prefaced everything I said with if it happens. I acknowledged that it’s far from a done deal and that I’m concerned whether it is true or not. Second, I do have my own information that I go on at times as well.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
That’s why I added to it. This is not a random string of thought re. Bobo. He really needs to get after it at practices. Period.
New opportunity for Bobo
Believe me, I’ve thought about Bobo transferring many times over the last year and a half since it makes sense (not an original commit, not getting to play, not fitting in with the style). However, one mans trash is another mans treasure. With DG gone, maybe get some confidence and become the player we all hoped he could be.
This will be an important focus point for this year’s team. They can either continue in a downward spiral, or they can rise against the adversity and turn the season around. Maybe chemistry problems was what was really plaguing this team.
I've been watching Bobo closely this entire year
especially after my encounter with at UCLA Hoops camp this summer (I posted on it earlier). He really looks frustrated with his playing time. You can easily tell from his demeanor when getting pulled after just a few minutes of mop up playing time. I agree that he must not be producing in practice and showing the necessary defensive quickness to get on the floor, but if he doesn’t step it up and delivery what CBH needs, I suspect he’ll be leaving too. Just my hunch. But if he doesn’t see more PT he may well go the way of DG.
No idea re: Bobo transferring
But has anyone noticed his sideline demeanor? I know he has a great sense of humor and is generally a likeable guy, but I will never understand him joking around during coaching huddles in close games and on the sideline when the team is down. It has always struck me as odd.
by AllHailMightyBruins on Dec 1, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
He was joking around, smiling, laughing
And like I posted about Drew Gordon above, he was not warming up for the Sunday 2nd half. He was just sitting on the bench.
He will get a chance at minutes now I believe, and I hope he steps up his game and effort big time.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
In regards to Bobo's playing time.
Sometimes it really does come down to the light bulb going off. From personal experience, I remember being unhappy once with my playing time and scoring opportunities in basketball. I angrily resolved to focus more on defense and particularly rebounds as a way of creating more shots.
I was happily surprised that my minor improvement in that area earned the trust of my teammates to take more shots.
Bobo needs to “get it” especially now that he is going to be handed more meaningful minutes. DG needs to “get it” if he wants to move on to a successful career in the Association.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
Bobo against Aldrich
It will be interesting to see who gets the start at center against Kansas because they will be going against the best center in college basketball in Cole Aldrich. Who knows, maybe Bobo blocks a shot or scores on a putback and that light bulb goes off.
I remember in Andrew Bynum’s rookie year when he had his lightbulb moment against Shaq after Shaq scored on him, Bynum came right back and scored on Shaq. This led to the two almost getting in a fight. Sure it took a little while later for Bynum to put it all together, but I’m really hoping Bobo has a similar moment on Sunday.
i was told by someone
who is an athlete who is friends with bobo, i will refrain from naming him/her however, believe me i want this to be as much of a rumor as you guys do i think well need bobo now to play meaningful minutes since DG wont be with us
Turn of events may change minds
Bobo may have been thinking about transferring, I dont know for sure. But his situation was different from DG. He was not getting any playing time after working so hard.
He will get the minutes now. He will get his chance to prove himself (Stanback never really got that).
So I would speculate that the transfer question is radically different now.
Let’s all hope Bobo is up to the challenge. I am rooting for him for his lightbulb moment. I am rooting for him even if a tad skeptical.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Wouldn't be surprised
Bobo is a more obvious candidate to leave the program than DG was. He’s obviously having trouble stepping up to the demands of the system and finding his niche. As promising or hyped as he may have seemed, his play in the small samples has been more like what you would expect from an easygoing, rumbling big man from one of the teams that the Bruins have played, a team like Fullerton or Long Beach or Bakersfield. His motor is weak and his athleticism is questionable. He can play basketball, but not in an aggressive, defense-based, high energy system. He would be okay and make small, steady improvements under a coach like Lavin, but we would be waiting a long time for him to be an impact player. UCLA isn’t a great fit for him, so it wouldn’t be a big surprise.
Disagree on one point...
UCLA isn’t a great fit for him
If not UCLA under Howland, where else is he going to learn to play to his potential?
Go Bruins!
I wouldn't be suprised
I’m sure he wishes he didn’t change his mind
I’m not saying that Howland hasn’t made the right decision with him but that wouldn’t change his disappointment
by millikinbruin on Dec 1, 2009 3:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I feel as though while he might be a little hot headed at least he seems to care that they’re losing. It seems like game after game they all still walk the ball up the court like they are up 20 points and when they make stupid shots or stupid turnovers we get smirks instead. When I was at the Bakersfield game I saw them get within 5 pts the next thing I knew we were up 16. Only difference was CBH put Gordon and Lee back into the game.
Gordon was the one I was the most skeptical about at the beginning of the year last year but with his hustle and passion he grew on me really quickly
I’m just amazed that this is happening and I think it’s going to be a rougher year than I ready thought
by millikinbruin on Dec 1, 2009 3:22 PM PST via mobile reply actions
CBH has a unique coaching style
It doesn’t work for self-entitled individuals. You have to be hungry to play for him. He excels at coaching players who have something to prove. Out of all his first rounders, only KL was expected to be one. Look at his squads at PITT. No five star recruits as far as I know, but they played hard-nosed bball, with a chip on their shoulder. In fact, RN and BL remind me a lot of his normal type of recruits, not DG. I feel comfortable with the freshman class. MM could turn into a major player for us. TH, when he comes back has to prove he has the mental toughness to play here, without the entitlement attitude. As long as CBH is our coach, expect this type of thing to happen. Going after big names means we’re bringing in all the baggage as well. Bottom line is that he creates a team that when prepared, can make solid runs in the NCAA tourney. If every player is not on board, willing to sacrifice like a Ben-Ball Warrior, then we can look bad. I hope the house cleaning is done now, and the lessons for all involved have been learned.
Bruin-4-Life!!!
by dwdbruin on Dec 1, 2009 3:24 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I think our public image took a bigger hit than our basketball team.
I was arguing this point with a friend and co-worker: his argument was that Howland was losing his players, that nobody wanted to play his style of Bball. My counter was that other than Holliday, everybody that left early left for a good reason.
I don’t doubt what some of you have already asserted: some guys are a little too ‘prima donna’ to put their heads down and work. I think Howland did the right thing, whether or not DG goes on to shine at another school or in the association, The Coach is king. Howland’s tough nosed defense and methodical (slow) brand of offense were publicized when these kids were just recruits. What was he (DG) expecting? It’s disappointing that this had to happen. But, I would rather have sub par basket ball team that plays tough and is a good fundamental team, than hand the program over to guys like OJ who do as they wish, and allegedly injure their own team mates.
Sure, this hurts, but in the end it is a cosmetic injury and not a deep down internal life threatening injury. This can easily be remedied with a resurgent team this year or next with some big wins.
The best thing you can do for your children is to love their mother. John Wooden
I have had some time
to take all this in. My original thought was good riddance to anyone who is dumb enough to not want to be a bruin. I still think that but now I am thinking how much we are going to miss him. So far he has been the best player on what has so far been a bad team. Whether this move from CBH will help or hurt us has yet to be seen but I hate to admit that a turn around from letting him go is not likely considering he was the only force we had inside.
Were those rumors about bobo going around before all this with DG. Is DG leaving going to persuade bobo to stay if these rumors are true?
by Hackun12@aol.com on Dec 1, 2009 3:44 PM PST reply actions
To quote Junior Soprano
(also, the “Chinese curse)…”May you live in interesting times."
Don’t know what to say, really.
div II
Can they downgrade our program so that we may win a couple games this year? I’m going to build a bomb shelter, get into it and not crawl out again until football season starts again.
As far as some positive news, should see Farmar and Collison go at head to head tonight.
Whose decision was it?
It seems we are assuming it was CBH’s decision.
But, I re-read Nestor’s post. One could also interpret this as DG saying he wanted to leave, now.
I will miss DG. He played well last year, hated losing, and was our best player this year.
It’s easy to turn on people who want to leave us, but I wish him well and also wish that he were staying.
sjh
The LA Times has DG’s Twitter posts:
This morning, he told his Twitter followers: “waking up early.. sleeples night.. man its tough.. lots on the mind.”
That was followed by a message in the early afternoon.
“to all my supporters and fans i apreciate all you done and im sorry but i set back is a set up for a great come back!!” he wrote.
Clearly he had been thinking about it…Does not answer the question
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
So it looks like it was DG who decided to leave
and that makes sense.
I really don’t see CBH throwing him off the team. CBH is a teacher and I think he would try to work with DG not abandon him.
sjh
I was wondering the same thing.
Everyone is making it sound like CBH wanted him off the team, but wouldn’t he probably say the same thing if DG just wanted quit?
Could have been an ultimatum
CBH may have brought it to a head: change or leave. Not uncommon in these kind of situations. So it could have been DG’s final decision but still really be mutual.
All of the players look frustrated. None of these guys came to UCLA to be on a losing team. They came to be in the Final Four. They are not the program rebuilders…they chose to come here when CBH had things rolling.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
A whole nother subject
After the LBSU loss we had a mini discussion as to which is more likely or more common: (1) high school stars willing to come to play where they can make an immediate impact due to a lack of quality (at their position), or (2) high schoolers turned off to a program that appears to be on the skids. Now we can add one that is losing one of its top recruits to transfer and dissension.
Unfrigginbelievable
Well, there goes our chances for an 11-20 record. I’d say maybe 9-22 is more likely now!
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
can this week get any worse?
on top of this news 3 football players have decided to leave the program as well…let’s hope the other sports w/msoccer and w volleyball do well this weekend at the NCAA’s…god we newed some GOOD NEWS for UCLA…
by bruincheerleader on Dec 1, 2009 4:10 PM PST reply actions
The three FB players leaving the program
isn’t really bad news. They’re all graduating, and it opens up 3 more scholies for the team to recruit off of.
Good luck to Dean, Bennett and Miller in the future, but they were just going to be taking up space on the 3 or 4 deep that now can be used for freshman with some greater upside.
This is a style of play issue...
Gordon wants to play PF and play up tempo to improve his stock for the next level. He looks at UCLA simply as a stepping stone not an ultimate destination. The Bruins will miss his athleticism in a big way, especially on the glass.
I have to agree with Ryan: we have a troubling percentage of misevaluated players (either emotionally or physically) in our recent recruiting classes.
Neither KL nor JH are good excuses for the holes we have. KL everybody knew was a one-and-done. JH was anticipated to be a one-and-done; there was never a high chance that he would stay two years. Even if he was JH was near KL’s level (and nobody expected him to be KL) our team last year would not likely have gone to the Final Four or above. These types of players should be recruited (imo), but it is the responsibility of CBH to account for their departure.
RW leaving early is also not a good excuse. If he did not excel in his Sophomore year we would have a much lower chance of getting to the Final Four or winning the Pac-10 that year (considering how close some of the games were). RW developing to his potential this year might allow us to win many more games in an extremely weak Pac-10, but he alone cannot push this team deep into the tournament.
As for ‘mentally weak’—maybe some, but JA being bad is not just because of his mental weakness. DG showed a drive to improve and I’m surprised that could not be channeled properly (if chemistry and willingness to play along is indeed the issue). In either case, if mentality is an issue with CBH’s system, this falls on the coaching team to evaluate as well.
Lastly, how raw offensively should we expect our players to be exactly? How is it that we do not have a single person in our freshman/sophomore class that has a range beyond 5’? Defense is half of the game—maybe it’s even 75% of the game—but it’s not 100% of the game. We need to recruit players who have an offensive skillset. I haven’t been watching college basketball for that long so I am not really sure what a program at our level should expect offensively from our frosh/soph players.
Bobo development
I am not sure if Kaqreem Abdul Jabbar would be up to it but for a lot of reasons ask him to come in as a associate head coach and put him in charge of post-player development. He would help attract the big men, provide a positive learning experience for developing players, and be an example of Bruin loyalty though a bit late. He is over 60 and should have no delusion on being a head coach. He helped Andrew Bynum get better so why not Bobo.
Agreed
I suggested that while watching the first game against CSUF. However, he is still under contract with the Lakers. I love the idea of alum coming back to be a part of the program
is he still under contract?
because at the beginning of the season i read online that Bynum believed that he didnt need Kareem’s help anymore and as a result his duties would be limited if any. I think the news about the leukemia is more of a reason why he wouldnt come back to help his alma mater than $
kareem doesnt seem to be the type to get caught up in the dollars and cents but then again that i just pure speculation on my part
$$$
UCLA probably cannot come close to what KAJ is pulling down with the Lakers. Would settle for Swen Nater or Stuart Gray giving instruction at this point.
Does he
need the money, though? If he really wants to be a coach and be an integral part of a team, then UCLA may be a better place than LA Lakers. I see no opportunity for him to be a full time asst coach with the Lakers
this has been a tough week.
and it doesn’t seem to be getting better. Looking at our young basketball squad, we could, potentially, drop both games against suc this year. Fuck…I don’t think I can handle losing to them this much. I hope the team takes a turn for the better.
clearly, I'm still stuck on the suc shit.
sorry…i’m still processing the whole thing.
And against a program that is in total disarray
Hard to believe we might have sunk THAT far….
But maybe we will have to have faith in CBH!
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions
This just comes as a such a shock to me only because
DG has so much passion, a strong work ethic, and because of his comments he made about wanting to become a leader for this team.
William Doolittle at your service, a.k.a. will do.
Agreed...
I think this has been simmering since last year when the seniors had to beg Howland to play more uptempo to pacify some of the frosh. Remember the few times DG made quotes to the effect the team lacked heart and didn’t play the right way.
This is on Coach Howland
Gordon, obviously, has ability and his a competitive guy. These are traits we would want in all of our players. Drew had his shortcomings, but desire and will weren’t one of them. Let’s not kid ourselves about the talent level of this club – all these players were highly recruited and are talented, this is a style of play issue. UCLA teams, outside of the Kevin Love year, have always been very choppy on offense and rarely used their athletic ability. I love CBH, but the offensive execution is not there consistently like it is with the Dukes, UNCs, Kansas’, etc.
Right, including the two seasons before KL
…where we made it to the Final Four. Twice.
Let’s not get carried away now.
Offensively Duke is always solid
There teams haven’t made deep runs in the tourney, but their regular seasons are every bit as good as ours have been under Howland.
He does have a point about bottling up talent on offense a bit
I mean look at Westbrook in the NBA? Howland definitely didn’t create a system where he could utilize those skills. The only times we got to see Westbrook’s freak potential was on steal fast breaks.
UCLA '08
We were "choppy" on offense even in the Final Four years
There were always droughts. And stiffled play.
But they were always among the most efficient.
I say it is DG problem: we all know what Howland basketball means and DG chose to come play here. He knew, or should have known, what he was getting into. I am sure CBH when sitting in DG’s parents living room talked about defense, defense and defense.
If DBH did NOT get DG it would have been the problem. DG being unhappy here, if it was because of the style of play, is DG’s problem
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
Don't quit
Its nearly 5 p.m. and I just had a chance to read all of the posts. I am “exceedingly displeased” (Coach Wooden would use that term but with an intensity that would make your teeth rattle) in terms of what happened today but not with much of what has been posted. But the truth is we just do not know what has been going on during the practices and inside the locker room including the effect of the filing of felony charges against Dragovich. We do not know about disagreements amongst the team of even the coaches. It sure seems Coach Howland was more than willing to let Gordon go. Much of the dispiritedness I read is due in part to the fact this all too unanticipated and unexplained. The blunt Bruin truth is we know nothing about what happened and we may never.
But here is my point—we need to get fired up over our teams fighting for NCAA championships. Students are the ones who can make the difference. Students need to tell our players why we need their victories now more than ever. A men’s soccer player walking out of a biology class needs a student in blue to walk up and implore him to beat Wake Forest. A woman on our volleyball team needs students to urge walk up to her and tell her that we owe Long Beach State and it is up to our women’s volleyball team to pay them back for last week. And our women soccer players need to be pumped up to knock off undefeated Stanford. At the United States Military Academy, during the week of the navy game, all the cadets wear combat dress uniform (like the fatigues my husband used to wear) rather than their traditional gray uniforms. Why, because soldiers fighting in a conflict wear combat dress uniforms in war and playing navy is war. This week at UCLA should be preparation for War—we have Bruins fighting for national championships and after what we experienced in the past week—they gotta win—failure is not an option. Students need to blue up (sort of like lawyering up I guess but it means wearing blue) and make everyone of our players know their sisters and brothers are one with them!
And this post is not off topic—its what we gotta, gotta do in the face of the disappointments we all feel.
Go Bruins!
The way to save this season...
Howland needs to go to a smaller line up with JMM in the middle of a zone. G Lee, G Roll, F Honeycutt, F Dragovic, C Morgan – Use JK, Anderson, Nelson, Moser and Lane off the bench. Stay away from Hamid.
I don't know any of the principals
but I know enough facts to judge the character of our coach. Let me throw out one parable. Before many Bruins were born, we had a skinny red-headed center who was very good, but a bit of a rugged individualist. He wanted to keep his hair long, as it had been during the off-season. His coach, a pretty stodgy, stubborn guy, remarked that his team mates would miss him. Whereupon the red-headed center got a haircut and rejoined the team.
I remember a quote (also mentioned by someone in this thread) from Gordon to the effect that Coach Howland was going to have to change the way he was coaching. That coaching style has won roughly three out of every four games at UCLA. As I understand things, Coach Howland coaches a system in which five guys play together. Other coaches have different approaches, and Gordon had to have known that when he agreed to play under Coach Howland. Well, all I can say is that plenty of divorces take place in real life because one spouse finally figures out that the other is not going to change after all.
Too bad for Gordon, in my opinion. He apparently did not realize that Coach Howland’s stubborn adherence to this thing called the “team” sent lots and lots of guys into the pro leagues in the U.S. and internationally. But worse, if Gordon really does go somewhere else, he will miss out on being involved in the best university experience in the universe. Too bad for him, really.
Great post
Loved my UCLA experience immensely. Love the career and lifestyle if afforded me even more. I hate to see Gordon go at this point of the season. It would have been an easier adjustment for the team if he’d transferred last year.
Here Here
You story from about the Coach and Walton is directly on point. The story has been repeated a number of times by Walton, affectionately, about the Coach. Walton in the middle of the 60’s was able to understand there has to be one boss.
You are right in saying too bad for Gordon.
But is is sad for UCLA too! Divorces are nevery happy times.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 1, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks, qaz. I needed that.
Another parable. Sometimes you line up your tee shot on the par three with the idea of hitting the nice lofted shot which will flop down gently by the hole, putting you in position for a birdie. Then you hit a grounder with your seven iron, which skips across a lake and rolls up on the green next to the hole. That’s known around here as “a good miss.”
The guy who came up with “Pre-Madonna” had a good miss. I’ve got to go try to find who said that and thank him.
I think a huge difference now is...
Our culture has made it much easier to be more self-centered as a whole; that compounded with the one-and-done option makes for the attitude that led to this… imagine if Walton had the option to go to the NBA after one year. My bet is he would’ve and it would have been to his major detriment.
ahaha very true.
Times are a bit different now though, aren’t they? (I really wouldn’t know, as I graduated this decade)
Timing
Lots of good points here on both sides of the argument as to whether CBH’s recruiting hasn’t been completely on point as of late.
My take on it is that the rhythm of our players’ length of stay in the program relative to position and role, is off. Like others have mentioned, you recruit with a general idea as to whether a player is going to most likely be around for the long haul (Mata) or if they’re going to be a one and done (Love). What’s making this an even more sobering rebuilding year than most others is the fact that players that we thought and needed to stay left, and the players who stuck around don’t offer what we painfully need.
As a result of being off this rhythm, CBH used his personnel to this best he could for the moment, not really considering the future (can’t blame him for that). What that leaves us with is a load of sophomores who are just now really beginning to play as they were thoroughly ineffective in their limited playing time last year—when they were supposed to get acclimated with the game on this level.
How’s it going to be fixed? Everybody’s got their theories, and they all make sense to a certain extent. I’m not certain myself, but I do know that in CBH’s tenure, among the great players he’s reeled into UCLA, only one was a bonafide primetime stud recruit (Love). All the other players we’ve seen a lot of success with were pleasant surprises. Be it the more stringent academic standards at our institution (which I support) or the primetime player’s lack of desire to play the gritty, defense-oriented “Ben Ball” we love, but we need a John Wall or two injected into this program to liven things up from a support, recruiting, and offensive standpoint.
If CBH doesn't let the athletes play...
He will never build a program that attracts premiere talent. Ballers want to play in a system that allows them to run and showcase their skills. I believe we’ve all bitten our tongue and grown to like the defensive style of Benball, but we would love to see our guys run the court and score in the 80’s every night. I know I would.
That would be fun to see
but we’ve seen that CBH can produce results – he’s not a no-name, untested coach. I agree we’re going to learn a lot about him this year, and in the recruits we get. I had a major WTF moment when I first saw this diary a few minutes ago. Having time to think as I read the hundreds of posts before this one, it still sucks. I’ve previously posted in a number of threads that I wonder if we’re NIT-worthy, and that I’d be surprised if we lose to Kansas by less than 30. This certainly doesn’t make things any better.
At this point, Howland’s essentially starting over again. He doesn’t have much to work with, and needs to grow the players he has and bring in others if we are to succeed again at the level UCLA should (and yes, I say ‘should’ intentionally). It’s time to develop MM, BL, and RN. I’m excited to see what all three can do. We’re all hoping TH can produce from the start.
This season is going to be awful. There’s no way around that. I’m a Bruin no matter what, so I’m eager to see what we can do and how we grow from here.
formerly AZBruin
i believe this is known as
addition by subtraction
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
Very surprised
Admit I did not see the 76 classic games (all losses of course), but I thought Drew always added a lot to our team when he was in the game. Even if the correct move for both Drew and our team, it does seem like another step back in an ugly season so far. If ND ultimately has to leave as well then the pot will really be stirred.
Bobo transferring rumor
Is absolutely true. He’s been talking about leaving UCLA for a certain #1 ranked team we’re playing @ Pauley on 12/6. And he’s serious… What a joker.
It’s not that I don’t trust you, but considering you have no previous history on this website (it is your first comment), and the nature of the comment (anyone can claim to have the same source), you’ll have to understand that I’m taking your comment with a mountain of salt.
Enough
Please don’t come in here with unsubstantiated rumors.
Bobo may be considering leaving, he may not. time will tell. But I’ve read too many posts over the years that sound just like yours, with that phony, cryptic-sounding BS.
Whether you heard it “directly from a UCLA basketball player,” or from “three wealthy and influential alumni,” or from Bobo himself, unless you can provide some form of substantiation, don’t bring it in here.
Formerly UCLA Class of 86
Has any transfers ever worked out?
Chace Stanback, Ryan Wright, Andre Patterson, omm’A Givens just to name a few.
The UCLA team and BH
Based on the brief body of work this team has shown so far this year, I am concerned that there is more going on here that we aren’t seeing at first hand. The Drew Gordon issue amplifies what I believe coaches need to do, find a way that talented players (and he is one) can contribute. If Drew has an attitude, he must have had that attitude before coming to UCLA. Someone had to believe the coaching staff could mature him enough. Another evaluation mistake?
Overall the team does not look encouraging, and I am mindful of the spanking we took from a mid-major team last time out. That hurt. Let’s hope that BH has a solution. The team appears leaderless and not inspired in general. I haven’t seen that yet from any of his teams. I am perplexed.
Bill
Mensgym
Hold on a second
You haven’t seen leadership and inspiration in ANY of his teams!? Did I really read that right?
Not on this team
This team looks a whole lot different than the others. I see a more mechanical type of team. This is obviously due to their youth. I don’t have the answers, but I do see a huge challenge for BH to grow this team, based on the body of work so far, to be competitive in the PAC-10 at all.
Bill
Mensgym
I don't think you read it right.
I think he means that he hasn’t seen “leaderlessness” (is that a word?) and lack of inspiration in other UCLA teams coached by CBH.
It could turn quicker than we think
Man I hope honnycutt is as good as advertized. It’s bad real bad but this is college bball it dosent take nearly as long as football to get it rolling again. But it starts in recruting and getting guys with the right mindset. It’s apparent coach howland has made several mistakes the biggest in my opinion being JA. A lineup of honnycutt smith Nelson m.lee and anyone other than JA will be a top tier team in a weak PAC 10. So I’m not jumping off the cliff just yet but any more news like this and well I’ll have a hard time staying optimistic
by uclamike on Dec 1, 2009 6:58 PM PST via mobile reply actions
INTERESTING
CBH privately SUSPENDED Gordon from practice for 2 days….IS GORDONS DEPARTURE GOOD OR BAD FOR OUR TEAM?
Do you have a link?
Please don’t share news here without link. Unless you have a legit track record here, we will treat it as BS rumor. Thanks.
upsetting
Where is the UCLA program headed?
a young and concerned bruin
It’s obviousley bad from a talent standpoint but let’s face this sophmore class has been not only a bust but a major shift in our overall attitude. Kids before like AA Luc DC and even JF were focused on returning the program back to prominence. These kids seemed to expect to go to final fours and win PAC 10 tittles. Reality is cold and it dosent help that JA and Bobo just don’t appear to be all that good
by uclamike on Dec 1, 2009 7:15 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Nestor......
what do you mean by track record?
DG
When i first met him he seemed like a very nice guy….and a leader on the court…..but I guess not
LA Times reports 2 day Suspension
As noted above. Also some interesting comments from his parents: “He won’t transfer to a Pac10 school.” “The phone’s been ringing off the hook.” and get this “we’re glad he’ll be home for the holidays instead of playing ball with UCLA” (maybe slightly paraphrased.) Also on the wires now is that San Diego State is a good prospective school.
If the decision was Gordon's,
(which it seems to be if Howland was giving a suspension as punishment rather than threatening release)
I don’t see how it’s a smart move on DG’s part. You’re throwing away an amazing education to play at some tiny school that no NBA scouts really watch.
Confounding.
Recruiting
I hate to see DG go, but that will open more scholarships for use next year. Maybe we dont need people with hothead attitude at UCLA.
Good riddance to an egomaniac
What someone does in times of adversity shows who they really are. Now there should be no doubt about DG being a cancer to this teams chemistry.
“It came from the frustration of being with UCLA and losing to the teams they were losing to,” Gordon’s father, Ed, said. “With the talent that’s on the UCLA team, there’s absolutely no reason for that to happen.”
Wow, way to show some character there DG. As soon as things get tough and you don’t have DC to be the real leader of the team, your “leadership” abilities have you give up and run away. Nice.
“His athleticism always has shined more in an up-and-down tempo,” Ed Gordon said. “That’s not exactly what the UCLA system is about.”
Really?!?!?! And you didn’t realize this before committing. I don’t think CBH held a gun to your head to get you to sign the papers.
“We’ve heard from I can’t tell you how many programs,” Davis said. “My phone’s been ringing off the hook.”
Whatever helps you sleep at night. No top level team is going to bring an egomaniac like DG onto their team and ruin that team’s chemistry. Best case scenario is end up with Stanback at UNLV.
I think it speaks volumes about DG and his parents that instead of just going about this privately (like CBH did with the private suspension) they run to the media at the first chance they get.
Good riddance.
It's not that he's an "egomaniac"
It’s that he’s not as good as advertised. I was expecting so much more from him, and he’s underwhelmed on all aspects save for emotion.
If DG were a supremely talented egomaniac, he’d be on everyone’s wish list.
I don't think that's necessarily true
Gordon was supposed to be an athletic defensive player that was raw on offense. So far, all of that has been true. The real problem has been his discipline, from the way he defends to his showboating screw-ups to his obvious temper. If he had learned to play with discipline he could’ve become a very good player for UCLA.
by SuperBruinMan on Dec 1, 2009 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
I agree, poncho
As I see it, the issue is pretty simple. It’s obvious that we had a bad situation with Coach Howland and Drew Gordon (and his baggage.) So if one of them has to go, who shall it be? If I had a vote, I would vote to keep Coach Howland.
Drew, I wish you well, but I suspect your basketball career has already peaked. I suppose with enough research, someone will find the name of a player who went on to a great career after transferring, but I can’t think of anyone. Maybe you’ll be the first. Good luck. What’s really too bad is that you’re walking away from the education of a lifetime at the university of a lifetime.
I'm expecting a Forcier-type press release soon
from the Gordon Camp. “I was a top recruit in the country with many scholarship offers”
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