[UPDATE] More Thoughts On Drew Gordon's Departure From Howlandwood
by Nestor on Dec 1, 2009 7:36 PM PST
in Basketball
165 comments
Well looks like we have a lot on our minds tonight. The first thread on Drew Gordon's departure is all filled up. Instead of updating that post, thought it would make more sense to throw up a fresh post, where folks can continue the discussion.
LAT's David Wharton posted excerpts of Gordon's tweeter messages today:
This morning, he told his Twitter followers: "waking up early.. sleeples night.. man its tough.. lots on the mind."
That was followed by a message in the early afternoon.
"to all my supporters and fans i apreciate all you done and im sorry but i set back is a set up for a great come back!!" he wrote.
I am all for student athletes taking advantage of the tools available by social media outlets, but I just don't see the utility of posting that information on twitter.
John Wilner from the San Jose Mercury News offered up the following quotes from Gordon's family:
"The UCLA system is very methodical, and Drew is better as a transition player,'' said Gordon's mother, Shelly. "When you spend that much time and effort on something, you have to feel some gratification.
"We wanted to make the change now rather than wait and hope the situation gets better. The timing is terrible: It looks like he's leaving because they lost a bunch of games. But that's not what happened.''
Gordon told UCLA Coach Ben Howland on Monday morning, 12 hours after he scored two points and grabbed one rebound in a loss to Long Beach State. But he had been pondering the decision for weeks.
Not exactly sure what she means by "situation." [UPDATE: it looks like we now have a little better understanding of the situation, discussed more after the flip] That could only lead to more baseless speculation. Anyway, wherever Gordon ends up, we should all wish him luck tonight.
As for us, I think we are going to be all right. This is going to be a very rough season. I know we are UCLA and the sentiment is we can't have rough seasons. However, in my book Howland has earned a lot of room given what he has accomplished in Westwood.
I had a gut feeling something wasn't right with Gordon's time at UCLA. I remember two years ago when JS did a reverse dunk on a break away and then did a little showboating. Howland immediately took him out after that play and chewed him out. He didn't do much of that rest of his time at UCLA (okay he slipped a little here and there but he really cut it out a lot). He seemed to make an earnest effort to do what Coach Howland asked him to do and in return he got the mins on the court.
There is reason why Howland got emotional on senior days for DC, JS, and PAA. Those three might not have been the most athletic players Howland had in his six+ years in Westwood, but they (at least from what I was watching) seemed to give everything they had to get on the same page as their head coach. Not sure if I can say the same about Gordon after what I have seen in his appearances in a UCLA uniform
As much as I enjoyed watching Gordon's active energy on the court, I never really got the sense that he was a Howland kind of player. Something didn't seem to fit amidst all the constant yelling and screaming after every dunks, blocks, getting out of position on defense, taking wild shots not within the flow of the offense. Perhaps Howland is just too old school for kids like him or perhaps some of us are too old school to appreciate today's athletes such as Gordon (Man, am I sounding like a geezer?).
Anyway, we will wait to see more news come out on this story. My gut tells me this didn't happen all on a sudden. This had to be building up and I have to think Howland had taken all the steps internally (i.e. disciplining if necessary by having him sit out at practices) before getting to this step. Either way, I really hope the remaining sophomores from Gordon's class gets the message. It is way too early to form any kind of impression on this year's freshmen class. However, given what we have seen from Holiday, Gordon, and rest of their entering class, something seems to be off. I hope they will make an earnest effort now to learn from the examples classic Ben Ball warriors such as DC, JS, PAA, AA, LRMAM, RW set before they left Westwood. They will get their due mins on the court during games, if they listen to Ben Howland, D up, rebound, and play within their limitations on offense during practices.
For now, I believe Howland will do everything he can to get this right. He might not get it all resolved by the end of this season. However, for the long term I think he will get the program back on track. Given what he has given to UCLA for last six years, I am going to keep my faith and keep traveling with him until we finally get to our desire destination (banner number 12). As I said, it might take a while, but I am more than willing to be patient after the job Howland has done last few years in Westwood.
GO BRUINS.
UPDATE (N): As pointed by number of posters in previous thread, it looks Howland indeed tried to make it work with Gordon. He suspended him for two days from practices this week:
UCLA center Drew Gordon decided to leave the team after Coach Ben Howland quietly suspended him for two days of practice this week, his parents said.
Yet instead of trying to learn his lessons, it looks like Gordon wanted to move on. The quotes from his parents as noted by poncho are telling:
"It came from the frustration of being with UCLA and losing to the teams they were losing to," Gordon's father, Ed, said. "With the talent that's on the UCLA team, there's absolutely no reason for that to happen."
Uh, really? Were these guys watching the same team as we all have been last few weeks? Ed Gordon goes on:
"His athleticism always has shined more in an up-and-down tempo," Ed Gordon said. "That's not exactly what the UCLA system is about."
Uh, yeah. He didn't really show much in terms of ability to shoot consistently beyond 5 feet. He also played frequently out of control. Anyway, whatever works for the Gordons. We wish them luck.
However, now I feel even better about the decision Howland made today. GO BRUINS.
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What does PAA stand for?
I’m assuming it refers to Alfred Aboya. And I’ve always heard bad things about Gordon’s personality off the court, which seems consistent with how he acts on the court.
President Alfred Aboya
He has political aspirations in Cameroon, and I think it is safe to say that all Bruins are behind him if he chooses to run.
ok
I thought it may have been Prince, but I remembered LRMAM was the Prince
Check out Pierson's latest post
Which makes this split very understandable.
WAAAAY off topic
But “Pierson’s latest Post” took me back to first year law school and Real Property. We had a prof who thought he could teach us to “think like lawyers” by having us go over Pearson v. Post for a month. (That’s the one about a guy who shoots a fox but someone else beats him to the body (corpse? victim? What’s the right word?) and apparently it was a big enough deal that it got litigated up through the appellate court.) Anyway, depending on the book you used, many of the lawyerly Bruins will remember Pearson v. Post. I hope never to hear of it again.
But the question is
Who owns the property and when is ownership established? Is it when the shooter shot the fox, or is it when the other man came across the dead fox and took physical possession? And can it really be said that a fox is “property”? These are the questions that law students for 150 years have wondered about.
Can't imagine a property class without it
Although my property professor only spent part of a day focusing on the case, it seems to be one of those shared experiences among lawyers and law students.
he funniest thing about Pierson v. Post was the quote from the appellate court that the episode occurred . . .
. . . “on strip of wasteland call ‘the beach.’” How times have changed.
The Horror, the horror
now I have to go make sure my cruise is booked on the October Peerless, and not the April Peerless!
The Mad Bruin
Look, I didn't start this
Someone talked about Pierson’s post. It got me so sick to my stomach that I took a Carbolic Smoke Ball.
Let's not jump to any conclusions
about DG until we get an official Forcier release from the Gordon Camp
Ooh - a good one.
Maybe it will be written by one of the guys who writes the official apology for guys like Michael Vick – “If I did it, and i’m not saying I did, then I am willing to apologize to those who might claim to have been offended if I had done anything, which I’m not saying I did, and ….”
Recruitment and Development
Until this bust of a Sophomore class, Howland’s record of recruiting top talent, hidden gems, and workhorse role players, was among the best in the country. His record of player development was also stellar (see what he did with players that languished under Lavin.) What’s disconcerting is how an entire class — ALL rated extremely high — could tank so bad and/or fail as yet to show the development that their recruiting ranking would appear to warrant. Given Howland’s track record at UCLA until now, and at Pitt and Northern Arizona before that, he gets the benefit of the doubt. But if this year’s frosh and next year’s frosh fail to show the promise of their recruitment ranking and/or fails to develop, it’s a major problem and three Finals Four in a row earlier this decade will not be enough to mask it. I say this as an avid and grateful Howland fan.
As for Gordon: My first thought was disbelief and disappointment. Upon further review, he sounds to me like a cancer who was disruptive. And although the most promising of the players in our bust of a Soph class, he wasn’t nearly good enough to allow for that. Any time you have parents commenting in such detail on what is supposedly wrong with a coach’s system, it’s a major problem. Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right … So long, chief!
For those who can
turn on the Laker game if you want to watch DC. He’s been tearing it up in the first quarter! It’s helping me out tonight, and I love watching him even more than the other CBH era Bruins in the NBA because there is no “if he only stayed one more year” feeling when you watch!
Bruin-4-Life!!!
+1000
DC has been amazing since CP3 went out and I am so happy for him. I hope DC goes for 30 and 10 tonight, but that the Lakers win.
I'm a major Laker fan
but I want DC to rip their throats out while he’s in there. They can afford a loss tonight ****only if DC hits the game winner*****
Bruin-4-Life!!!
Watching DC and watching Holiday
And there were actually people out there saying Holiday was a better point guard than DC. lol
Hey just because....
…JH has had 5 DNP-Coach’s Decision, shoting 35/28/57, 4.5 points, 2 assists, and 1.6 rebounds doesn’t mean he isn’t the best point guard in the NBA. Clearly the 76ers just don’t know how to use him.
Oh man, too funny
Clicked on the first one that came up and it made my night. Good writers over there.
Jrue Holiday was equally painful to watch. The defensive stud himself was torched by Mike Bibby. However; this was his second career start, and he’s the youngest player in the NBA — he’s entitled to these types of games. For much of the game I had to remind myself that Royal Ivey and Jrue Holiday did not switch numbers, because that’s who Jrue looked like. If you’re a Sixers fan, no further explanation is needed, but if you’ve never seen Royal Ivey play, YouTube him. If you don’t find a single highlight, there’s a reason for that.
JH never impressed me.
I was amazed that he left early and that anyone would really want him. Can not even compare him to DC.
But
Holiday got his ($$$); but looks like he better save up because his nba career may be shortlived.
I agree with Passion
Jrue Holliday never did anything IMO when playing for UCLA except the game vs. USC against Derozin, a former colleague in HS. I couldn’t believe all the first round pick projections for him…..but to watch DC tonight starting against the Lakers….man, it’s sweet. I am a die-hard Laker fan, but am rooting for DC every time he has the ball. What a champion he is, and DG should maybe get a reality check about his aspirations for the NBA—-guess what, you have to work hard and suck it up no matter what team you play for. His UCLA predecessors have done pretty well under BH. DG’s stats so far as a sophomore are not getting him anywhere soon—particularly since he will need to redshirt. Still, I wish him well, and acknowledge he and CBH BB were not a good fit. Better to find out sooner than later. GO BRUINS!
Both he and Jordan are having great games
There hasn’t been much joy in my basketball life this basketball season. This is one of the few bright spots so far.
DC was also in a pregame interview
Nice to watch something positive for a change! BTW, they also showed Timmeh on the sidelines – asst. coach for the Hornets.
The pro's are a good place for him
I mean he’s already used to working with a salary cap.
Darn
I’ve been looking forward to seeing this game for weeks and its not being TV’d in my area. DC’s performance since CP’s injury has been the saving grace of this fall bb season (AA is also doing well now with Denver and others as well, but DC is really shining). Thanks for the update on tonights game. Its amazing to watch him take over a game and assert his presence on the court.
yep
3-3 8 pts in Q1. At last a little good news
Oh dear....
Jon Gold has more about the DG situation, including this gem from his classmate JA:
“But a lot of players don’t agree with their coaches all the time.”
Hopefully JA, ML, and JMM can prove that JH and DG were just bad apples of their #1 class and not the whole crop.
It reads differently in context
He was talking about whether he saw it coming, not whether the punishment was deserved.
by SuperBruinMan on Dec 1, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
True
But it looked like Gold spliced together two quotes since this one had its own paragraph. I’m just really hoping that CBH nipped this in the bud before DG (and JH)’s negative personality affected too many other players.
There's a post on Bruingold claiming that
As I hear it, Gordon has been trying to lead a grassroots player insurrection since last January to force the coach into an uptempo playing style. I guess he thought he could force Howland’s hand. . . . I think Gordon isolated himself by moving against Howland with an ultimatum. It’s over – Gordon’s out.
It’s so hard to know what really happened though. It bet Howland won’t say anything, and it’s probably not in Gordon’s best interest to tell the full truth.
by SuperBruinMan on Dec 1, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
Recruit the parents as well
Maybe the lesson to be learned is that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. In this case DG’s parents sound like the typical entitled, wannabee Hollywood parents (I know they’re from San Jose). Who knows what kind of pressure DG has had to live with since he reached six feet tall. Obviously both he and his parents believed every word of his high school press and were clearly disgruntled with what was happening this year. They don’t seem to have the character to work through adversity (as noted by Nestor I believe). As an even older geezer (I think) I’m just dismayed at the culture of instant gratification, fame and notoriety that builds nothing but ego. If it weren’t so tragic I would be laughing at the image of DG sitting in his dorm room (probably missing class) posting these immature and inane comments on Twitter; wondering to himself how many of his “followers” will follow him to San Diego State.
I watched firsthand last year at Cal when DG threw a big tantrum after the game.
Keep in mind we won the game at Haas, and here was this frosh, yanking off his shirt and it was his father who came onto the court, postgame, and restrained him and had a father to son stern talking to. It calmed DG down at the time and I think he was upset about lack of playing time or getting pulled with a couple fouls…not sure.
But if you have a kid throwing tantrums after the team has won a big conference road game…well I guess that just shows that he was more concerned about DG than about the team.
by 84 on Dec 1, 2009 8:25 PM PST up reply actions
Sounds like a former Cal player
Jamaal Sampson out of Mater Dei had the same type of attitude in high school. And what happened to him? Left after 1 season.
the problem with parents
they can be a cancer to potential recruits. It’s a small world when it comes to elite highschool players and parents talk. I just hope that this doesn’t spread and athletic players like JH and DG will not come due to the “wrong” system for them.
More and more teams seem to have success with “player’s coaches”, which I don’t agree with. Are the days of tough coaches like Howland over for coaches that kiss players’ asses? I hope CBH can prove otherwise, because he has his work cut out for him. Yes, CBH has earned a long leash, but boosters and the mass media are not patient types. Especially, when you see elite teams such as NC, Kansas, and Duke reload every year.
All we have to do is go back to recruiting kids like
AA, JS, LRMM, LMR, DC, RW — kids who appreciate the opportunity to learn and will play a team game. I think we have some of those kids now — MM, RN, BL — and when we have enough of them we will be just fine.
sjh
They will be great seniors
but, CBH needs to get one stud to take UCLA to the promise land.
Disagree, Hongerelli
I would prefer having kids with character on the team any day of the week. If we don’t go 35-0 and win every game by 20 points, then so be it. But I would much rather be proud of the guys on my team than have to explain what “We own the police” means when someone on my team has to quote that time and again.
Would you rather have Shipp or Collisson or Aboya or LRMAM or Lorenzo Mata-Real baby sit your kids or (fill in the blank of the Iverson clone, and there are plenty). I’ll take character, and I’ll take a coach who insists on character. And I think character kids can win a few games, so it’s not as if we’re writing off the season. As I recall, Alcindor was a pretty good character guy in addition to being a decent basketball player.
now the question is: Have times changed? Is it fair to compare the 50s, 60s, 70s to 2010? Where JS, DC, PAA, LMR, & LRMAM, & RW recruited for their potential or did we get lucky? I also want representatives of UCLA to be men of outstanding character but the team also has to win. I believe the 2 characteristics are not incompatable, but in this age of egoism & instant gratification… who knows…
If we don’t go 35-0 and win every game by 20 points, then so be it.
…then so be it?!!!
Blasphemy!
Then so be it?
I practically puked in my mouth!
What a revolting thought.
Disparage winning? That’s a good one. NOT.
Most of us who GIFT MONEY YEARLY want to see us 35-0!
I know I do.
As for character… say what?
Coach better get some character quick, and stop being one.
UCLA loses to Cal State Long Beach?
A first in school history? C’mon people. Something is dreadfully wrong.
Coach cannot praise kids for their high school game at the kids home…
then turn around and try to undo that very game ON THE COURT.
Stop LYING TO KIDS AND THEIR PARENTS!
Recruiting is selling!
Obviously, the Gordon family was told ONE THING, that turned out to be another.
End of story.
I’ll be glad when many more of this nation become PARENTS.
Hey… I remember my first night as a 17 year old freshman in Sproul Hall like it was yesterday. I remember the birth of two sons like it was yesterday. I remember my youngest son blocking a Jrue Holiday shot in high school like it was yestereday.
The questioning of PARENTS on this board utterly amazes me.
Unless, of course, most of you are in your teens, or early 20’s.
the questioning of parents amazes you???
Yes, because the parents of little league/high school/aau/college athletes are usually known for their objectivity and level-headedness.
Also, ‘End of story???’ You have no idea what the Gordon family was told. Parents (or as you know them better, PARENTS) often times hear what they want to hear. It’s quite possible that knowing Gordon would be in the same recruiting class as Bobo (although I must admit that I don’t recall the exact timing of everyone’s commits), the parents assumed that their son would play either PF or SF while Bobo manned the paint. However, once it was apparent that Bobo was not going to be a starter, that scenario changed. That’s just adapting to new circumstances, but it’s not being misled or lied to.
by insomniacslounge on Dec 2, 2009 3:06 AM PST up reply actions
Let me see if I understand this, '78
Coach Howland has to “get character.” What exactly does that mean? I assume it means that he has all the parents (excuse me, PARENTS) consent as to who should start, what sort of offense to play, what sort of defense to play, and all that. And PARENTS should dictate what goes on during practice.
Then to “get charater” Coach Howland should emulate the late Timmeh Floyd and let himself be recruited by the latest one and done, and make sure he personally delivers the money to the kid’s handler. He should maintain his "character " by making sure that none of those pesky “compliance committee” people know where his stars live so that none of those unpleasant Mayo or bu$h issues come up.
And of course, Coach Howland needs to add to his staff. Jerry Tarkanian would be the perfect addition, as recruiting coordinator. Then if he can only get Rodney Guillory and Lewis Johnson to come aboard, we will surely get those hard to get kids who are holding out for the big money.
Of course, some people might think that Coach Howland, as the caretaker of Coach Wooden’s program would go in a different ethical direction. But obviously it is more important that PARENTS get their kids in a program that will showcase their individual skills.
I guess the good news about this is that I’m no longer a geezer. I must be in my teens or early 20’s. Does this mean I have to go look for a job? Maybe I could get a job on Coach Howland’s staff delivering cash to players.
choose one
Coach better get some character quick, and stop being one.
So you’re saying it’s important to value character, as it is a prime consideration.
Most of us who GIFT MONEY YEARLY want to see us 35-0! I know I do.
So you’re saying I want what I want, and I don’t care about anything else.
Unless you were there when CBH was talking to DG’s PARENTS, neither you nor I have any idea of what was said.
A UCLA coach some time ago said “Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are.” From what I’ve been told, his teams did pretty well -at least from the evidence I’ve seen looking in the rafters at Pauley. Out of the two opposing points of view you are trying to present in the same post, I’ll go with the one closer to the Wizard’s.
formerly AZBruin
Promises are made during recruiting that never materialize...
I don’t have any children of my own, but have close friends that have gone through the recruiting process with their kids. Holiday will be used as a cautionary tale, if not by incoming recruits, most definitely by the schools vying against UCLA. Style of play has been my biggest bone to pick against Howland. He likes to play a rugged, defensive minded style that mucks the game up and leads to easy baskets off turnovers. In the absence of elite athletes this mindset works for programs like Wisconsin and Washington State, let’s not confuse those schools for ours. If UCLA plans on competing with the UNCs, UKs. KUs, Dukes, etc they need to play a brand of basketball that is conducive to displaying athleticism and exciting crowds. Final Four appearances are great and will never be forgotten, but UCLA needs play in the open court. That has been the only criticism I have for Howland. His results are unquestioned, but his longterm success may well depend on his ability to continue to attract elite players. This year is far from over, but is, frankly, embarrassing.
I repeat the question
Who else should we have as Coach? Timmeh? Calipari? Someone of that ilk? You can’t buy integrity, in my opinion.
Remember “A Man For All Seasons”? After More was condemned based on Rich’s perjured testimony, More noticed Rich was wearing some sort of emblem of office. More asked him what it meant, and Rich said he had been appointed Attorney General for Wales. More’s line was “To sell your soul for all the kingdoms of the earth is one thing, but for Wales?” I would much rather be a fan of a school with a coach who had honor and principles than for a school with a coach who doesn’t. I guess I’m old fashioned. That’s why I will never understand those who revere Calipari or Cheatie Petie or guys like that. In fact, it’s not a guess – I really am old fashioned.
Not an integrity question
I don’t think any of us want to go back to the Lavin era of undisciplined play, but wish for more flexibility from Howland when it comes to offensive identity.
That isn’t hoping for Pittino or Calipari to take over the program by any stretch. In many ways UCLA mirrors the Angels baseball team, very solid, well respected, makes the playoffs every year and falls short for the same reason each time – lack of offense.
aren't his parents ucla alums?
i vaguely remember seeing that somewhere…
Across The Face
Sigh yes
It brings me back to a better time to see DC playing it up so well at the next level. Can’t say I didn’t know it would happen!
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
I am tired
of seeing posts degrading our players. Stuff like “JK is worthless”. Keefe may not be a superstar, but he is a solid college athlete at a premier school. Same goes for Roll and everyone else. Pointing out porr play and bad decisions is one thing, hurling insults is another. ND has issues – so his maturity can be questioned, but the nonsense comments about these young men should stop. If Drew is a bad fit for UCLA, then good luck to him somewhere else.
Thanks Van
I was going to write a fan post about this and may still do so.
It makes me sick to read some of the personal attack comments here posted by chicken shit wanna be Jim Romes. The difference is that Jim Rome does it under his real name. And, gets punished when he goes too far — see the YouTube on Rome and Everett.
The people here do it from afar using pseudonyms — really brave.
Calling our Bruins names is the act of cowards and know-nothings. Criticizing their games with substance and opening up oneself to rebuttal and debate is the way to go.
I’ve been really saddened here, lately, to see so much name calling. The worst — saying that ND was “basketball cancer”. And, it was repeated a second time even after Nestor counseled it was not appropriate.
A lot of the drive by nasty posts are from people who are relatively new here. I hope they learn what we are and adjust a bit.
sjh
I love that tape.
You want to call someone names? Man up and do it to his face. And, then face the consequences.
Hiding behind a pseudonym on the internet is totally chicken shit.
sjh
I stand by my original comment...
…and I think your description is off-base.
Calling our Bruins names is the act of cowards and know-nothings. Criticizing their games with substance and opening up oneself to rebuttal and debate is the way to go.
I’ve been really saddened here, lately, to see so much name calling. The worst — saying that ND was “basketball cancer”. And, it was repeated a second time even after Nestor counseled it was not appropriate.
A lot of the drive by nasty posts are from people who are relatively new here. I hope they learn what we are and adjust a bit.
Like I said, I think your comments misrepresent my comment. I know we don’t see eye-to-eye on many topics, but I’m going to reaffirm I stand by the comment.
Nestor commented:
I think [w]e have to do our best to not attack our guys alcor. I think it is ok to criticize a player’s game as “stiff” (I have heard people use that term) but calling anyone “cancer” is bit too much. I understand saying things in the heat of a game thread to a certain extent but all of us are here are capable offering solid observations. Let’s do everything we can to stick with that even when we disagree.
And yeah, I myself have let emotion to get better of me at times and I am trying very hard to make sure I don’t take out my frustrations by attacking our own players (even though I think a player is offering nothing to our team while he is on the court).
by Nestor on Nov 27, 2009 4:03 PM PST
I followed with:
I think "cancer" would be fair if used properly. Not on a personal level, but in basketball terms.
For example:
ND’s game is so terrible, it’s a cancer on the rest of our squad. His poor decision-making, terrible shots, and horrid defense force the rest of the team to fight like hell to stay afloat. He does more damage than anything, so in that sense, ND’s game is a cancer on the whole body that is our squad.
Is he himself a cancer? I don’t think so. But his game on the floor is so God-awful, it’s like a tumor, destroying everything in its wake and making it impossible to have a fighting chance.
by Bellerophon on Nov 27, 2009 10:14 PM PST
To characterize my comment as inappropriate or cowardly name-calling, in my opinion, was off-base. I think I was clarifying a point: that the description was valid if used appropriately. I agree with you, in the sense, that using it as a personal attack against ND isn’t appropriate. But to call out my comment ("it was repeated a second time") as an example of "drive by nasty posts" from "people who are relatively new here" is off-base. Period.
And yes, I stand by the comment. ND is not a cancer on a personal level, but his game, however you want to describe it, is detrimental to our team as a whole.
It wasn't you I was talking about
It was the original poster who said something like ND=Basketball Cancer.
Your post was in the chain started by the original poster.
I have no problem with your post and didn’t then. I read your post to agree with me that direct name calling was not appropriate.
sjh
Oops, hit send to soon.
And, after your response and Nestor’s, the original poster put up the exact same post, in another thread: ND=Basketball Cancer.
BTW — this was not the only name calling that has occurred recently. There has been a lot more.
And, Bella, none by you and you are hardly a “new” or “drive by poster”.
sjh
Thanks for clarifying
I missed the second post by the original poster, so the only subsequent post I knew of was my own. Thanks for clearing up the misunderstanding.
Like I said before, I don’t mind if people want to use colorful language to discuss our teams, as long as it is done appropriately. You can call ND’s game “garbage” “cancerous” “a ticking time-bomb” “the basketball equivalent of nuclear winter” etc., but the comments need to be focused on his game, not on him as a person.
Now, if people want to talk about ND as a person, esp. in light of his legal problems, I understand that, but it needs to respectful.
And, to emphasize a point made by other posters, the two discussions, ND’s performance on the court, and his personal choices or alleged misdeeds off the court, need to be divorced from one another. In other words, ND shouldn’t be slammed for his personal stuff because he’s sucking it up on the court.
If you’re going to slam him for the legal stuff, do it for that reason, and that reason alone.
If you want to say he sucks on the court, do it for that reason, and that reason alone.
66, I am glad we are able to find common ground on the issue.
IMHO
It is inappropriate to use the word “cancer” to describe anything other than the thing itself. I am a cancer survivor and now my father is fighting this insidious disease. Cancer has absolutely no redeeming features or qualities. None.
A struggling, unreliable, somewhat immature college basketball player is not a “cancer.”
Perspective.
Love My Bruins
Agreed, Van.
Calling Holiday and Gordon ‘bad apples’ because they left Howland’s program is unnecessary. I find this behavior very hypocritical for a site that punishes its members for criticizing any UCLA player a few games before the managers themselves put out posts that pretty much state the same criticisms.
I enjoyed The Commissioner’s fire and passion on the court and I wish him well. Two have left already, I wonder if Malcolm Lee is next? I wouldn’t be surprised. Go Bruins.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
I love Joel Myers
he’s no Chick (RIP), but he always gives CBH love when he talkes about UCLA players.
Bruin-4-Life!!!
Sorry to admit it
but he and Matt Money’s radio show on 570 is freaking hilarious… He actually attacks former SUC personnel all the time.
Bruin-4-Life!!!
JJ Meyers, a Sr
Has never appeared in a game.
Petros is funny and brings lots of energy to his radio shows/tv broadcasts. When he first came on air years ago, I didn’t like him. However, he does grow on you after a while.
I heard him as a guest on KROQ recently
Just ripping into the Dodgers ownership for dragging the team and their fans into their personal dreck. It was pretty damn spot on, I have to say.
There's no reason to be sorry about it
Impartiality, now more than ever, should be celebrated in our local media. I hear him call them like he sees them and it doesn’t matter what program it is he’s talking about. Sure a lot of his references are trOJan based but they’ve had a pretty good run the past few years so that’s to be expected.
yeah, but there are some haaaaard cores on here
and I don’t want them to think I’m soft…lol
Bruin-4-Life!!!
Actually
I think Petros has been all right. I have mentioned that few times now. Yes, he can’t help being a homer sometime. That’s not surprising. However, he can also be frank and make poignant observations. Plus he is kind of a funny dude. I don’t mind him.
Much better than plenty of brainless UCLA alumni
who tend to get broadcasting jobs in this city. An independent perspective is always better than a hackish or flackish one.
I like the PMS show.
Petros has grown on me, mostly b/c he sounds very sincere when he’s ranting and raving (sounds oxymoronic?) Plus I love the fact that he WILL criticize SUC when he thinks it’s appropriate, esp. after the Sat. night football game. And he’s just funny sometimes. I’ve learned a lot of hiliarous phrases listening to that show on my long commute home.
This is a failure for both
CBH and DG, but mostly for DG. I can’t honestly say that I wish him well, because he seems to me to be entirely concerned with himself. I simply no longer care about him one way or the other. While the timing seems really bad, a player with this attitude cannot leave soon enough. As unlikely as it may seem at the moment, this will benefit the team as the season develops. As for CBH, we must admit that his plans have not been realized with this recruiting class, and he has not been able to build the team unity and commitment to the coach, the school, and one another that is needed to succeed in such a difficult system. I believe that he can rally the remaining troops and build a competent team, because he is a good man and a fine coach. So let’s get to it. I don’t believe that this is any more than a bump in the road — a big bump admittedly, but I don’t think a sinkhole lies ahead. Anyway, we have no choice but to try to cope, using what we have, because the schedule isn’t going away. I expect us to battle Kansas every minute and to go on from there. If things are to be difficult — and they are — we have to remember that what feels unbearable to us is no picnic for the players either. Time to circle the wagons and put up a fight. I admit that rooting for the Lakers will be more fun.
When we scouted him, didn't he scout us?
When things like this happen, I wonder where the kid thought he was going. He knew our system. Or, did he think we’d change it for him?
More importantly, what system did his parents think he’d play?
Sometimes I think the smart kids who’d rather play run and gun come here to learn to play D — something that will make them more attractive to the NBA. Mature kids understand this. And, it should really be solidified by watching DC step into an important role and the comments of his coaches about how well prepared he was coming from a CBH team.
Want to run the ball? You have to create defensive stops, D rebounds, and steals — we get out and go in transition. Unfortunately, we’ve not been good on D or the boards and are not getting transition opportunities. DG could have helped us a lot here with his blocks and rebounding.
As I’ve said before, I like DG and am sorry to see him go.
But, I find the whole thing confusing.
sjh
PS. And why didn’t we beat the teams we should have been beating? Those were team losses and DG was a starter on that team.
sjh
Exactly.....
Parents, who apparently know their child’s abilities so well, allow him to commit to a school with a system that doesn’t suit his abilities…..then 2 years into it, act surprised that it didn’t work out. C’mon people. Grow up and quit making excuses for your child.
The fact that he’s been thinking about it for a ‘couple weeks’ only goes to show that he’s a bandwagoner……if we’d have won all of our games, then I highly doubt this would all be going down. whatever. Keep enabling your child’s petulant behavior by excusing his actions.
UCLA has talented players
I’ve seen the majority of these young men play in high school tournaments or summer league runs, they have some very skilled players. The learning curve for this version of Bruins basketball is rather slow – most of that is attributed to less than stellar play from the guards.
James Keefe is best as a spot up mid-range shooter and a guy that can defend an area. He’s not being put in a position to succeed. Roll and Dragovic are two other players that are excellent shooters off of curls or off screens – this again, comes down to player movement without the ball and crisp ball movement. It, certainly isn’t just an “athletic” issue. These guys are role players, their job is to space the floor and make open shots. They all have a track record of succeeding in that role.
Malcolm Lee perplexes me, I truly thought he would take over this team and average 17-20 points ppg and really elevated his game. He just doesn’t appear comfortable or have the confidence in his abilities -and they are substantial. Anderson is simply not playing with any confidence. He’s a very capable player. I’m disappointed in both of their performances, but this season is far from over and team’s can use a situation like DG’s to come together.
I like what I’ve seen from the frosh – Lane and Moser will really benefit from the minutes Gordon’s departure creates. Nelson has a nice little face up game that he’s not shown thus far. For the most part the freshman have played a little slow and shown hesitation in grasping both ends. Just typical growing pains that go away with minutes and some positive outcomes. Patience Bruins fans. Honeycutt was the crowned jewel of the class and he reminds me of former Arizona Wildcat Sean Elliot. Yes, he’s that talented.
The key for this team is staying together, trusting what Coach Howland is attempting to build and, frankly, making shots. The team would easily have beaten Fullerton and Butler if they could make open shots. Everybody relax, recognize the fact this team does have talent and will eventually get it. It is a long season and this team is not nearly as incompetent as they look early. Frustration and losses to the Cal States are ugly, but this team has good player with a lot of heart and will not mail this season in. Believe that.
What I'm hoping will accelerate the growth of the remainder of the team
Is just a lifting of expectations. These guys need to realize they really no longer have anything to lose. No one expects anything out of this team anymore, and they need to come out and compete and just pour their blood, sweat, and tears into every possession.
Spot on
DG’s transfer is going to play out nicely for our frosh. We weren’t going far this season anyway, so his playing time was just taking away from the guys who I hope will carry the torch the next few years. Best thing that could have happened, time to move on.
Bruin-4-Life!!!
Anyone notice the blurb about Howland playing ZONE ?!
jon gold – go take a peek
i think that makes it official (in case it wasn't already) - this season is a serious reclamation project
guess you can teach an old dog new tricks – i like it.
that's exciting
we should have played the zone a long time ago… this will help us since JA, MR, Drago seems to let people blow them by like no nothing… with a zone at least we prevent them from slicing our paint apart and force them to make shots from outside! this also mean we might see JMM playing since he will be perfect for the zone, beast waiting down low for the swat while not having to hedge on pick n’ rolls!
i'm curious to see how it works out
but it can’t possibly be more painful to suffer through those growing pains as it was to suffer to them this weekend. maybe today was the kick in the pants everyone needed.
I wouldn't hang too much hope on a zone
even if you’re playing a zone you have to be totally committed to it. just ask syracuse and their “exhibition” loss to a DII school. i know they’re playing much better now but just don’t expect immediate results. Anybody who’s played pick up ball knows that it’s actually harder to play zone with people you haven’t really played with before because it’s all about communication. Our guys are pretty playing together for the first time anyways…
Buying into the program
The summer after Coach Howland’s 1st final 4 appearance, I was talking to a woman who had played 4 years of basketball at Penn. Her husband was an athlete but was 2 years behind her because he redshirted one year and whatever. She graduated and spent 2 years as a graduate assistant helping coach the women’s program at Penn before her husband finally graduated. They came to California and were in law school together. She knows basketball, I mean really knows basketball. So I asked how come the UCLA program suddenly became a national power.
She said, "The players finally bought into his (Coach Howland’s) program. Well it appears for better or worse, Drew Gordon was unable or unwilling to buy into Coach’s program. And if you don’t buy, into his program, you don’t have to play basketball at UCLA—its that simple.
by peggysue69 on Dec 1, 2009 8:52 PM PST via mobile reply actions
The sad thing for everyone is that we saw him improving
If he had continued the same course for three more years who knows what could have happened. I saw big differences between this year and last year, and one would assume he’d be able to progress even faster with all the minutes he was getting. He always seemed pretty immature emotionally, but I thought he had the athletic ability to become a very good player, and now he’s put that opportunity at risk. Where could he possibly go that would develop his skills more than UCLA? Does he think that playing somewhere else is immediately going to make him a top tier player? I don’t want to bring any other names into this, but some of these high school kids really need to ease up on their quest for instant gratification and try to WORK on being better basketball players while they have the opportunity. They don’t seem to realize that you have to work to improve at each level to get to the next one.
Gordon will excel in a different system
Drew wants to play the 3 and run the court. At his size he was at a disadvantage playing center and being counted on to score in the post. DG, and likely his handlers, felt that UCLA playing him at the 5 was stunting his growth and, possibly, ruining his future. Honeycutt and Moser are obviously the answers for the Bruins on the wings for the next couple seasons. Gordon could see the writing on the wall and decided to do what was best for his professional aspirations. Hate the timing, and agree that he was showing some improvement, but if the young man doesn’t want to be on the team or fill it wasn’t a fit for him then let’s wish him well and put our arms around the players that want to be in Westwood.
you could be right
and if so – i can’t wait to see how long he sticks around “excelling” before he makes the leap. whatever the case, you’re right – it’s really just better all around this way.
Agreed.
It’s a shame he couldn’t fit into the program. I wish him well. He was one of my favorite Bruins along with Malcolm and Roll. He’ll be missed.
On the other hand, I’m really excited to see Bobo and Reeves get more playing time. Go Bruins.
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Gordon at the 3?
He’s not gonna be able to be an NBA 3 unless he really works hard at it like Matt Barnes did. Too bad his attitude may be his downfall.
and it will probably take him
the same length of time it took Barnes until he’s ready for serious NBA minutes, much less mop-up time.
formerly AZBruin
sad, yes, but not the attitude needed on this team right now
this team’s too young and too confused right now to have that type of influence corrupting things under the guise of “a leader”. he can go work that magic elsewhere. we’re a long ways away from being even a decent team – we’re gaining more than we lose here.
Agree in a big way...
I’ve been clamoring for Howland to utilize a zone the past two years due to the lack of quickness at the wing positions. If Morgan doesn’t grasp the starting center job and run with it, then I have absolutely no idea how this club will score down low. Lane is more of a face up player, Nelson doesn’t have the explosion to get his shot off in the paint, the team might pull the red shirt off Stover.
but at least we'll finally find out what we've got in bobo
between DG leaving and at least some time playing zone, this is his chance to dominate under the net. his offense appears to be pretty remedial, but as we know, CBH will be metering his minute more off of what he’s doing on D. after that, maybe he’ll be motivated to move more than 3 feet/possession in the half-court set.
this is actually quite funny
1) Gordon’s mom says the phone is ringing off the hook with schools contacting her regarding her son.My understanding is that to recruit her son while he is still enrolled at UCLA, even if he is not on the team, is a major recruiting violation.
2) Gordon and his parents were surprised Howland wasn’t running an up tempo offense… Really? How in the world is that even partly believable.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
If you're gonna itemize their funny statements you should add one more
DG’s mom said “It looks like he’s leaving because they lost a bunch of games. But that’s not what happened,” and then his dad said “It came from the frustration of being with UCLA and losing to the teams they were losing to,”
Players can be recruited while at another school
with the permission of the school. Since the transfer was a mutual decision and CBH was as much a part of it as DG, I would be shocked if UCLA didn’t grant anyone who asked permission.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 11:11 PM PST up reply actions
Darren shines; outscores all but Bynum
Another great night for DC. Maybe ML will get the idea soon.
Yes Indeed........Watch DC and JF Play in the NBA
I wonder if DC and JF ever had moments of doubt or dispute with CBH? I’m guessing yes, on occasion, but they deferred to their coach. Obviously their college and NBA paths and track records speak to their invaluable exposure at UCLA. That said, I am also as a die-hard Bruin fan a bit stymied by the Bruin performance(s) of late. DG might have been hoping for a “2 and done” send off to the NBA, and clearly our team’s performance out of the gate would have not sent him to the NBA next year 2nd round, much less first. I long for the days of four year college basketball teams as a cohesive unit, but I acknowledge that seems to be a by-gone era. Sigh.
Anyone watch north Carolina tonight. Do they even run plays or just run up and down the court. The wear twins looked pretty good as well. That system just appeals to most elite players. Dosent hurt that there on espn all the time. We have to create excitment in our program you can do that with a slow grind it out defensive style when your wining games. But as our fan base has shown in our attendance on national telecast early this season enthusiasim is hard to come bye when the team is percived to be down. I can understand why non bruin fans would not want to watch us but what’s our excuse. Is it that we find it unwatchable too. I personaly could care less if they play like the Phoenix suns our the 80’s pistons as long as we win.
by uclamike on Dec 1, 2009 10:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions
If you watch UNC's fastbreak
you will see that it’s not just running up and down the court. They have a system in which they fast break with players filling in certain areas, the ball getting to certain areas, the cuts coming from specific places and the trailers timing their cuts perfectly. It’s a very precise fastbreak that is very disciplined and a joy to watch.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions
Horrible news
he was hands down our best player and a spark for this team. This is going to be a worse year without him.
most productice so far perhaps
but definitely not our best player if half the rumors flying around are true. team > all else. Whatever really happened, I wish him the best but I have to side with CBH when he says this was the best choice for both parties.
Re: Recruiting
I’m probably in the minority here, but I understand those who disagree with me considering CBH’s track record of development. AA, JF, and JS are special cases because they were heralded local kids who came aboard at a time UCLA was down, and they wanted to be on the ground floor of our revival. LMR was not highly recruited but proved to be an integral career (graduating) player.
DC and RW are diamonds in the rough, and honestly, UCLA is lucky to have discovered them but UCLA shouldn’t have to dig for diamonds in the rough. Being from the South Bay, I first heard of RW when he dropped 50 on my HS alma mater (West High). I follow recruiting pretty closely so I was surprised that he wasn’t recruited as fervently as he obviously should have been. The only conclusion I can draw from that is that he didn’t go to a high school powerhouse (Leuzinger), and he must not have gotten the kind of exposure playing AAU ball that’s essential to recruitment.
Personally, I believe it’s integral to program success to get top-notch talent even if they are one-and-done’s. The trick is to keep reloading those types of players annually the way North Carolina does. North Carolina is the standard right now along with UConn and Kansas in terms of attracting elite talent. We can win Pac-10 titles doing it the way we’re doing it now, but I don’’t see us winning national titles. I love CBH’s defensive mentality and agree it prepares our players for the NBA in a way most college programs don’t bother to instill, but at the same time we’ve come up short in our tournament runs when we couldn’t score with the big boys.
I’m a bit disconcerted with the latest news regarding DG because that class is the class that put UCLA back into the national recruiting conversation. JH gets ripped here a lot, rightfully so, but NO ONE imagined it would turn out this way when he committed to us. By all accounts at that time JH was the perfect CBH recruit: humble, good family stock, but an offensive stud who wanted to sign with UCLA for defense. My how things have soured for him in our eyes. The residual problem with JH’s situation is how it plays out in the future for other prospects like him. He might end up being a cautionary tale that inhibits our ability to recruit big time players of his status. People can say we don’t need players like him, but if that’s the case then we should temper our expectations. This is the nature of college basketball today especially with this ridiculous mandatory one-year waiting period for the NBA. The best high school basketball players today aren’t going to college to build programs, they’re making a pit stop before heading to the pros and they’re trying to get there in the least amount of time possible. You almost have to build a team on an annual basis, but all the top programs have to play under the same rules. It makes me appreciate a player like DC more who could’ve gone pro after his 2nd year but elected to stay for two extra years. He’s the exception not the rule. The elite programs today — UNC, UConn, Kansas — bring in elite talent with the expectation that they are going to leaving as soon as they can.
I agree
There seems to be a conflict between how we want to see the colelge basketball world and how it really is. I guess at some point, if you cant beat em, you have to join em. Although, you would think we would be able to reload easily each year considering the recent success of our players in the draft and in the nba.
Btw, I went to West also. Class of 2003.
I have no interest in bashing DG and wish him well
He’s still a kid that is maturing and learning. He did some immature things and he wasn’t the ideal player by any means, but he brought passion and fire. learning to control himself is a work in progress, but at his age, he has time to do so. I’m also not going to judge him at all based on what his parents said. I’ve seen too many parents open up their mouths and say stupid things for me to take anything they say very seriously as an indictment on the kid. Personally, I think it came down to a kid still maturing who wasn’t a fit for the program. There’s nothing wrong with that and I wish him well in the future.
My bigger question is why is this the third kid in four recruiting classes that has transferred because he didn’t fit? CBH needs to do a better job identifying who will fit and who won’t because we can’t afford so many transfers.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 1, 2009 11:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agreeing with everything you say tonight;
DG himself has not said anything. I think saying that he didn’t seem to fit from the get-go—while possibly true—is also a little bit revisionist: it seems that most people here felt that his fire was positive. I personally would much rather see too much heat than too little (a la JA). Also, although maybe somebody has a better understanding of exactly what happened, I don’t see why some people are saying that DG doesn’t want to work hard.
Adapting your system is a very important element in today’s college basketball and undoubtedly a weakness of BH imo. Some people have referred to the Triangle as a system that has not been adapted much, but if you watch closely, Phil does not play the Triangle when he does not have the proper personnel on the court, not to mention that NBA is a lot more static than NCAA and talent selection in a draft can be more goal-oriented than in recruiting.
Although I would not trade CBH for Calipari (due to Calipari having all the ethics of a calamari dish), the latter recently decided only to play his dribble drive system halfway—even though that system led Memphis to the NCAA championship game. He expressed his desire to use more of a set offense, because of a tall frontcourt available on the team this season. I don’t have the basketball knowledge to argue the pros and cons of systems, but it is worth noting that Calipari is making what seems to be relatively major adjustments even though he is 7-0 so far at Kentucky.
There's something very wrong with quitting 6 games into a tough season
when you’re a starter and the team needs you, because you apparently have the manners of a six-year old entitled brat. Insulting coaches and players repeatedly and profanely in public is excusable if it’s eventually worked out, but now when it’s followed by a stunt like this.
It’s not Gordon was the 12th man, frustrated and ready to move to a place where he actually would “fit” (i.e., play). He was getting all the PT he could have. But he decided that he knows more about basketball than a premier head coach, and could settle for nothing less than complete submission by everyone around him.
I can't answer your question directly, but
(Stick with me here)
In my sophomore year I started a design company, and one of my designers and I got into a heated argument (started out as a minor disagreement but each time I forced him over to my way it became more pronounced) over how the mocks should be presented to the client. I felt strongly that the customer’s own words and images should be inserted, and he felt that we should save time and use stock placeholder images and Lorem Ipsum (placeholder text).
At first I wanted to say—it’s my company, it’s my way or the highway—but I estimated that he would leave if that were the situation. Since he was a very talented designer and did care about deadlines, I weighed other options. What I ended up doing was letting him directly contact one of the customers and present things his way: a mockup using placeholder images and text. Even though it was a very good design, the customer didn’t like it. He redid the design, another good one, the customer didn’t like it. Finally he tried it my way, and the customer liked it. My designer never questioned me from that point on.
Now a small design company is not an NCAA basketball team. Due to the nature of basketball, it’s questionable whether CBH can allow for uptempo play (assuming this is the problem) for a few games just to ‘demonstrate’ to one stubborn player, although there was a small stretch of uptempo play last season that had a lot of people initially optimistic. If multiple people on the team are dissatisfied with the system, it may be worth the sacrifice of a couple games with this young team—or yourself—to convince them otherwise.
In either case, stubborn people CAN sometimes be convinced, and I do not know if CBH has pursued all avenues in this regard.
I wouldn't count Wright
I don’t recall any fit problems with him – he was just buried on the depth chart and wanted playing time. If you don’t count him, that makes 2 “bad fits” out of 15 recruits. That’s not ideal, but it’s not bad either.
I would also consider that the two “bad fits” were in very different situations. Stanback was buried on the bench and may have been too passive for the program; Gordon was a starter and a vocal/tough player. A lot of it just comes down to luck. Reeves Nelson seems in many ways quite similar to Gordon, and he had some problems that could have been interpreted as warning signs, but so far he’s been a perfect fit for the team and a fan favorite.
by SuperBruinMan on Dec 2, 2009 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
can someone aware me on the JH situation
Why do so many posters have a vendetta against JH? Is it solely because he was a one and done? Granted he didn’t accomplish all that much while here, but if the NBA is calling, I don’t blame him for passing it up.
Where do you want to start?
I think the biggest problem with JH was that his one-and-done season came on the heels of KL’s one-and-done season, and you couldn’t find two more disparate conclusions to UCLA careers. Both KL and JH came to UCLA with the expectation of leaving after one year, but KL was Pac-10 POY, 1st team All-America, and most importantly, he was gracious and appreciative for his time in Westwood. JH, on the other hand, was a different case. He was very underwhelming, not only statistically, but his short time in the program made no discernible positive impact. I could even argue that it had a negative impact considering what’s happened to the rest of that “#1 recruiting class.” He obviously wasn’t ready for the NBA, but I can’t hold it against him for leaving considering a possible new collective bargaining agreement in the NBA next year. Personally, I think JH was in a bad spot at UCLA because he was playing out of position. He didn’t ingratiate himself to the fans either by having less than positive things to say about CBH and the program after he left.
Gordon and Bobo
I don’t know if someone has already posted this, and I have gone back and forth on posting it myself, but I finally decided to…
Has anyone else seen Bobo’s Facebook status from this Saturday? It says:
“LA days soon to be over …….but im goin out wit a BANG!!!!!! …texas style”
The 55 comments after it are mostly from the basketball team, the first one being from Drew Gordon saying:
" yeeeee to the muffuuccckkiiinnnn haaaaawwwwwww […] "
I don’t know, I just found this interesting. My apologies if this has already been discussed or if posting things from their personal Facebook profiles is inappropriate for some reason. However, the first thing I said when I heard about DG leaving was that I was surprised it wasn’t Bobo…
If Gordon is instigating lockerroom dissatisfaction
there’s no question he needs to be out.
IMO Facebook is fair game, and I am curious as to what the other 54 comments are; JMM isn’t 80 he should know that anything posted on the internet is public forever.
The other comments
yikes, they’re somewhat obscene. Nothing really interesting from a basketball perspective, except for possibly them all being up past 1 am the night before a morning game.
by SuperBruinMan on Dec 2, 2009 12:47 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah...
I didn’t even get into my issues with the rest of their comments, but I’m really surprised all the athletes don’t make their profiles private.
This is a leap, but
from perusing his page, wow, the whole ‘gangsta’ talk and walk thing (see below) does not give me warm feelings about supporting athletics at UCLA. I know it’s just an emotional reaction, and unfair to judge based 1) a few athletes, 2) on cultural speech patterns, and 3) because his actions so far have not been troubling, but wow, the vocabulary on that thread is straight out of some of the worst-offending rap songs. DG seems to be the worst, JA and JMM seem not-too-bad though.
Language
Don’t read too much into anything found on Facebook, Myspace or Twitter – and definitely don’t mix up cultural slang and rap music venacular with the morals or mental apptitude of athetes. They aren’t writing this stuff for our benefit, nor is intended to be discussed in a forum like this. They should have their profiles hidden.
Clearly, COACH has lost HIS way.
Ben needs to chit-chat with Roy, John, Mike, Bill, and a few others so he can get in touch with TODAY’S kids, TODAY’S NCAA Men’s Basketball game. I’d like to see Ben adjust and succeed (if he can quickly). He’ll be GONE if there are back to back dismal seasons.
Two questions
Who should his replacement be?
What should his replacement do, exactly? How exactly should someone coach TODAY’s kids?
You are vocal in your opinions, ’78, and I disagree with those opinions. I make no claim to have the answers, as you apparently do, and am ready to be convinced that you are right. So who should our new coach be, and what exactly should he do?
So basically
what you are saying is, Ben Howland should kowtow to some misbehaving brats and change HIS coaching style to fit THEIR needs.
Hey lets allow them to coach themselves! The players would be the ultimate player’s coach amitrite!?!
What I prefer is:
“It feels like we’re in the army”
“You are in the army. You’re in my army.”
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
Is he what everyone misses when they say lets "Run and Gun?"
We may lose to Princeton, but at least we’d hit four alley-oop dunks a game.
It sure does take a great mind and a great fan
To just bitch about things without having any answers. What would we ever do without your infinite “wisdom”?
Agreed. Coach Howland will gone if there are a few more seasons like this.
And your suggestion of Coach H talking to other more successful head coaches is a start to solving this problem.
It was refreshing to see Coach Williams and NC last night. The guy played 12 PLAYERS and only TWO of them did not score. Coach Williams also played Mater Dei’s Wear twins and they looked like two raw and talented big men that would have filled some needs in Westwood.
Let’s hope Tyler Honeycutt lives up to the hype. So far he’s said the right things and seems like a good fit for the Bruin army. I’m eager for this kid to get back from injury, looking at his youtube clips is getting old. :)
33 Wins. Yeah, I said it.
Yeah great suggestion
Or how about he talk to the BEST basketball coach who just happens to reside near our own campus? No, not John Wooden Legs, but another guy named John. Also with the last name of Wooden.
Why don’t you start the campaign to hire Coach Williams now? Actually I don’t think Williams has ever won in Pauley, so he might not such a good fit here.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
out of 347 D-1 coaches...
Rivals.com puts CBH as 5th in their power rankings of head coaches. This season is concerning. I’m not ready to panic to the degree of pushing him out yet, though. Many have mentioned Wooden taking 15 years to win his first title. I understand fans have less patience these days, but I’m willing to give CBH a few years from here to see where things go from here. We don’t need those of TODAY’S kids that are self-centered and have no interest in team play.
formerly AZBruin
CBH
I don’t believe any of us want to change coaches or feel that Howland forgot how to coach overnight. Not at all, I just want better execution on offense. A lot of that is his inflexibility and a large part is the instability at PG this season. This week off is coming at the best time. Practice is a neccessary tool for this club to figure out an identity. I subscribe to playing zone, allowing Roll to play SG with Lee taking over at PG. Playing primarily a trapping zone with long defenders on the back line – Morgan, Dragovic, Lane, Moser, Honeycutt, JK, etc.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
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