Just How Mediocre UCLA Became Under Karl Dorrell?
by Nestor on Dec 12, 2009 9:11 AM PST
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PrintRemember how the LAT took a cheap shot against UCLA about how our team finished 6-6, despite having 3 players named in the Walter Camp All American team? As mentioned on the home page, obviously a snark attack like that doesn't take into consideration, how the talent level in UCLA football was thoroughly gutted under the incompetent leadership of Karl Dorrell.
TusconCitizen.com published All-Decade standings for Pac-10 football programs (not counting the upcoming bowl game). It doesn't reflect too well on UCLA:
Pac-10 All-Decade standings
| Team | Conf. W-L | Overall W-L | Bowls | BCS | NFL picks | 1st-round |
| USC | 64-20 | 101-25 | 9 | 7 | 61 | 15 |
| Oregon | 57-27 | 87-37 | 9 | 2 | 34 | 3 |
| Oregon State | 51-33 | 80-44 | 8 | 1 | 28 | 2 |
| Cal | 43-41 | 71-52 | 7 | 0 | 35 | 7 |
| UCLA | 41-43 | 66-57 | 7 | 0 | 25 | 3 |
| Arizona State | 37-47 | 65-58 | 6 | 0 | 32 | 5 |
| Washington State | 33-51 | 57-63 | 3 | 1 | 17 | 1 |
| Stanford | 33-51 | 47-68 | 2 | 0 | 30 | 1 |
| Washington | 31-53 | 49-71 | 3 | 1 | 19 | 2 |
| Arizona | 30-54 | 47-67 | 2 | 0 | 21 | 2 |
Taking a look at that couple of factors jump at me right away:
- Number of NFL draft picks from Westwood really show how Dorrell really failed to bring NFL level talent at UCLA. I don't believe we can point the finger at Toledo for this given he left Dorrell with enough NFL talent to build on when he took over in 2003.
- It is interesting note that despite the fact that this past decade was probably the worst stretch of UCLA football we have experienced in last half century, we still ended up posing a record of 9 games over .500
Anyway, the record posted by UCLA in this past decade is clearly not acceptable. It is the reason why we brought in Rick Neuheisel. We think he has us on the right direction as he is bringing in more talent via the recruiting pipeline, and has the team move forward in terms of the number in W-L column. I think it is imperative for Neuheisel to build on this season's record and win 1-3 more games next season, with another solid recruiting class. That way we will be set up to make a serious run the following season, and have the foundation set for UCLA level of success (producing our share of NFL talents, regularly competing for Pac-10 titles) for years to come.
GO BRUINS.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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What jumps out to me
Is what a great coach Mike Riley is at OSU. He might be the most underrated coach in the nation. With just about the same level of NFL talent as we have had, he has posted an impressive record. And he has a number of significant wins, not just ones against underdogs.
Additionally, with all the accolades Jeff Tedford gets, he hasn’t accomplished very much in his time at Cal. His signature games are the 3OT win over USC at home, and a close loss at the Coliseum. He has had his fair share of Pro-Bowl NFL talent, and doesn’t have very much to show for it. When you consider how bad this decade has been for UCLA, and how pleased Cal fans are with their program’s “rise” it highlights the different standards we have for our program, which is ultimately why we are all committed to seeing out the rebuilding process.
100% agree
Can you imagine if we had snagged Riley instead of Dorrell? We might be playing for the NC instead of the EagleOne Bank Bowl.
Ditto
Brutal coaching hire. What a missed opportunity!
While I commented on this before
And granted, it could be media slant rather than reality, but every piece from that era pointed out that Riley was mostly interested in the job to be closer to his family, which was in San Diego. Most pieces slanted it as though Riley would be timing his drive on the 405 rather than focusing on our Bruins.
I remember at the time, I was glad Riley wasn’t the hire due to his focus being elsewhere.
The Cal comparison really stood out to me too.
The program are virtually equal (5 game difference overall, 2 game difference in conference in 10 years) in their best decade and our worst decade in a long, long time.
by orlandobruin on Dec 12, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
I agree KD was a terrible hire...
And I agree RN is making amazing recruiting strides in his first two years. This year’s class looks very good, but I guess we’re still waiting on some big uglies. Let’s hope for the best. It should be three great classes in a row.
The big questions remain. When will we see a big improvement on offense? When will we see more consistency on defense?
I’m willing to wait and hope for the best. My ideal goals? A better season next year plus a win over SUC. A Pac 10 championship the next. A consistent top 10 team after that. Is that too much to ask? I hope not.
GO BRUINS! BEAT TEMPLE!
Next year...
Barring another spring of freak injuries, next year’s starting QB will be in his second year in the same system with the same HC and same OC – even if Brehaut wins out. That can only help. I’m less confident about the D given the significant losses we will/probably will face.
I think we are
On the right track. The recruiting classes help, and year after next we should see significant improvement.
I think it does reflect on the sort of expectations UCLA has for its sports that just a bowl game doesn’t cut it. A decade of “futility” for us is better than the last decade for 5 PAC-10 programs and a program considered to be better than us (Cal). I agree we should be expecting more, but I also think we should be grateful that it hasn’t been worse. Dorrell shattered our program, and we have managed to survive and come out the other side trending upwards.
by Captain Leebeard on Dec 13, 2009 9:18 PM PST reply actions
2 years later...
Are we still talking about Karl Dorrell? Yes the program wasn’t a very good product on the field during his tenure, however he did bring a lot of class, and integrity back to UCLA football while he was around. Seriously, it’s time to move on, and not mention Dorrell in every waking statement. It comes off as bitter, and pretty mean spirited at times considering he’s not only a UCLA alumni, who was a very good player during his time, but also a class act.
Oh, please, not another CTS apologist (and one coming straight from Conquest Chronicles.)
Do some research on the subject of class and intergrity. No one, and that means no one, ever denigrated the contributions made by Coach Toledo’s successor as a player.
But there were in fact character and integrity issues with regard to CTS. I won’t waste my time educating you, but there were serious, significant issues. It is a fact that CTS left the program in shambles. It is a fact that he was the worst head of our football program since World War II. (I can’t use the word “coach” in the same sentence with that guy.) It is a fact that he left a fundamentally barren cupboard.
I assume he is doing well in his new position, and am glad of that. But the fact that he was handsome and fit and wore nice clothes does not change the fact that he single-handedly destroyed our football program. I think it is healthy to keep that issue current, so that the athletic administration will never, ever repeat a silly experiment like the one with CTS.
Or course trOJies wanted CTS to remain in charge of the program. Sort of like the way I wanted Timmeh to remain in charge at just$c*.
Is there anything else you think is bitter or mean-spirited? Like reminding the world that the face of just$c is now doing time in Nevada after beating a double-murder rap in Los Angeles? Or referring to the great humanitarian as “Cheatie Petie?” Why don’t you give me the full list, so I don’t come off as bitter and mean spirited.
First off...
I’m a UCLA fan, and yes I do post on CC, I find it fun to have a healthy debate with a conflicting point of view.
The fact of the matter is yes, Karl Dorrell did bring integrity and class to the Bruins football program that was lost under Toledo. I did concede that he wasn’t a great head coach, however the hatred and personal insults hurled toward him even 2 years after his dismissal have been appalling. It does no good to dwell on the past, so why bother doing it? In my book, Karl Dorrell was a good man who simply didn’t have what it took to be a head coach. Nothing more, nothing less.
by DannyJay01 on Dec 15, 2009 12:47 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry, DannyJay, but calling yourself a UCLA fan isn't enough
I’m not going to waste a lot of time with this.
I question your Bruin lineage because of the content of your posts and because of the people you hang out with. It sounds a lot like the “I’m a UCLA fan in basketball and a just$c* fan in football,” and that doesn’t work.
CTS reportedly fired an assistant by text message. He threw players under the bus by name. He claimed that he was being criticized because of the color of his skin. As I said, I’m not going to waste a lot of time on this – you can look these things up. Those are not the attributes of a big character and intergrity guy. I don’t look at that as bringing integrity and class to the Bruins football program.
While you’re at it, show me some of your posts where you engage in healthy debate with the trOJies. I took a quick look but didn’t see any. I didn’t find, for example, any effort to engage any trOJies in a discussion of bu$h or OJ2 or overall thuggishness.
I hereby give you the last word.
Dorrell brought integrity and class?
By bringing up racism?
Dorrell brought integrity to the job by golfing away during off season and recruiting well?
I don’t want to bring up Dorrell either and I don’t bring him up often. However, when facts show up as reminder how he flushed our program into the toiler, we will continue to do so. Don’t lecture us on what we should be or shouldn’t be writing on BN.
Also how is this post?
an example of hatred and personal insults. The post above was pointing out simple facts on how Dorrell was a miserable failure when it came to bringing talents in Westwood.
What good does it do...
To troll a site trying to pick a fight about OJ Mayo or Reggie Bush? IMHO who cares about them? And I do engage in healthy debate with them, when I agree with them I tip my hat and move on.
As I stated earlier, it does absolutely no good to focus on 2 years ago especially when progress is being made in the present. It’s like complaining to your wife about your ex gf from before you met her, eventually it gets old and tired. Just accept that UCLA has found better and move on.
I however do not appreciate basically being called a fairweather fan simply because I like to engage in civil debate with a dissenting point of view. And yes, I have debated with them on several issues.
by DannyJay01 on Dec 15, 2009 8:30 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wrong
First of all, you’re not a fairweather fan, you’re a bandwagoning fan. Very different.
Second of all, Dorrell’s tenure should NEVER be forgotten by UCLA, as Lavin’s tenure should never be forgotten.
Those are perfect examples of what happens when you settle for the cheap and easy solution in your two biggest revenue sports. And they should be brought up any time, mockingly or seriously, so that the travesty is never repeated.
Finally, if you don’t like reading it…then don’t. We have spent countless hours on this site discussing the mirage “coaching” job in the previous administration and feel quite comfortable calling him out until eternity.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
Who is trolling what site?
WTH are you referring to? We don’t appreciate you coming over here and telling us what to write. I don’t really care where you hang out or post (that Fox71’s issue perhaps but not mine). However, I do not appreciate you lecturing us what we should be writing or discussing given that you are basically drive by commenter in this community. So don’t lecture us again. Thanks.
So again...
The fact that I choose not to dwell on the past, and would rather focus on the positives that are being presented in the here and now, and because I choose civil debate over trolling CC looking for a fight makes me a bandwagon fan?
I’ve conceded before that Karl Dorrell was not the answer to UCLA’s coaching situation, however to constantly bash him, is simply painting the fanbase as bitter, which should not be the case. Dorrell tried, and failed at the head coaching gig at UCLA, end of story. Wish him well on future endeavors, and move on to greener pastures. Basic psychology tells you that it’s unhealthy to constantly live in the past.
Basic psychology
says that if you bury bad experiences in the back of your mind, it will come back to haunt you. You learn from it and yes, you move on, but you never forget. We have moved on, but will never, ever forget.
If you don’t get why hanging out at CC makes you shady, then you haven’t seen how they treat some of the people here who posted there. Utterly disgusting.
I do wish KD well on his future endeavors. But I will never forget what he did to UCLA football. That doesn’t mean I haven’t moved on. I even forgive him (not that it’s my privilege to do so), because he was so in over his head that it was up to the people who hired him to prevent the travesty from happening. But I can’t and won’t forget. I’m not bitter, I just have a good memory. If you don’t understand where you’ve been and where you come from, you can’t go forward.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
If you don't like what we are writing
The don’t read it. Don’t just lurk around here and lecture us what to write on. No where in the post above we spewed hatred towards Dorrell. We shared basic facts on how he screwed up our program. If you don’t like reading that information. Then tough. Troll somewhere else.
How am I trolling?
It’s civil debate. Trolling is just spewing anything out to get a response, not simply disagreeing with what the editor of a site has to say. I’ve mentioned before that yes, it’s perfectly natural to have wanted Dorrell out as UCLA coach because he didn’t get the job done, but to continue bringing him up when there are far more important things to focus on, such as an upcoming bowl game is just beating a dead horse.
You are trolling and lying ...
When you write this in response to the original post:
I did concede that he wasn’t a great head coach, however the hatred and personal insults hurled toward him even 2 years after his dismissal have been appalling. It does no good to dwell on the past, so why bother doing it?
Characterizing the original post in this thread as example of “hatred” and “personal insults” is lying on your part. That also comes across as a lecture on what we should be writing. Read the BN rules linked on the left hand side before you lecture us again on what we should be writing. Suggest you step back and come back when you have something of substance to contribute instead of whining without any merit. Consider this a warning. Thanks.
Did you ever read what you posted while he was in the process of being fired?
Because it was chock full of insults, and personal attacks. I really don’t understand how I’m being labeled a troll, and a liar, when I’ve done nothing but give a respectful, alternative point of view, when on the other hand I’ve been mocked, and called a bandwagon fan.
Telling people what to do
is not “an alternative point of view”.
The “troll” monicker comes from posting on CC, which I still don’t understand why you do.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
I'm not telling anyone what to do...
I post on CC because I enjoy civil debate. How boring would it be to post on a site and just sit there agreeing with each other. There are times where I agree with them, and times where a good debate gets started. A wise man once said “Even the greatest enemies can show respect”.
Then the wise man
doesn’t know trOJans.
There is no civil debate with those guys, and the only reason they are “civil” with you is because you’re not a Bruin.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
You are lying and changing topic in this thread
You specifically wrote:
I did concede that he wasn’t a great head coach, however the hatred and personal insults hurled toward him even 2 years after his dismissal have been appalling.
We were discussing what is going on now. Now that I have called on your lie, you are changing the topic and moving the goal post. There was nothing of personal insult in the post above. You suggested I did that and you lied. If you keep lying in this thread you will be gone.
My initial post....
Was regarding the fact that Karl Dorrell was fired 2 years ago, and for whatever reason, you’re still bringing him up, and discussing him when there are more important things to worry about. I’ve never changed any topic, you’re just nit-picking my argument, taking one sentence completely out of context, and now threatening me with a ban.
Again, I have been nothing but respectful in any thread that I’ve participated in, and now I’m being called a bandwagon fan, AND being mocked. Why not present those people with the same threats?
Dorrell's track record was relevant
Because I wrote the initial post based on datapoints gathered at the end of this decade which specifically showed how Dorrell was responsible for gutting of talent flow into UCLA. I offered observations based on fresh information (that just became recently available). In response you came here and lectured us on what we should be or shouldn’t be writing and then went on to outright lie about what I was writing.
So don’t play innocent at this point. You hijacked this thread by accusing me of something I didn’t do in my original post. It’s a classic example of how someone drives by and disrupt a community discussion. I’d suggest you put an end to it. Thanks.
Bruins are not just the present. We are the history as well.
But history is a great deal of what it means to be a Bruin. We take a great pride in Jackie Robinson, John Wooden, KAJ, Walton, and past and current NBA players who played for UCLA – in the past.
Conversely, we do have to look at our not-so-pleasant past – because it informs our present and helps us evaluate our future. And understand that the first few years of what I hope to be a great era in UCLA football are going to be rough.
The reference of this posting (from my humble perspective) has nothing to do with trying to exhume the Karl Dorrell era to spit upon it. It seems more informed by the fact that the decade is drawing to a close and I’ve seen numerous tables (such as the one Nestor posted above) that make me wonder – what happened to the excellence I saw as I entered UCLA? We all see these articles. This post is a reminder why – and a request to us that we expect more. I appreciate us not having a major scandal at UCLA during KD’s tenure. The handicap parking business was embarassing. But that shouldn’t be enough.
Go Bruins!
Recruiting is the lifeblood of a program
And Karl Dorrell sucked at recruiting. Period. Great, he was an honorable man – good for him. There’s plenty of nice people I know at work who are absolutely terrible at their jobs. Karl Dorrell was one of those people.
Dorrell’s 2005 recruiting class – what arguably should have been his best recruiting class following a 10-2 season, contained the following ‘gems’: Ben Olson, Shawn Oatis, and Aaron Ware. Those were the three highest ranked recruits in the class. Every single one of them was a bust. The only servicable recruits in that entire class were Reggie Carter and Logan Paulsen.
You obviously can’t win many football games at the college level that way. Dorrell recruited poorly. He paid for it. Simple as that.
Don't take it personally
these are the words that were actually used by Dorrell defenders aganst us during the reign of error. Not sure if you were around this blog then.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
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