The Cupboard is Empty Again: Is CBH's Recruiting Killing the Bruins?

I think that is what he means by recruiting.

So what is the reason? Were assistant coaches that are now gone the keys to picking the right players? Or is CBH spending less time getting to know the recruits now that he is getting so many 4/5 star guys rather than sifting through 3 star players?

IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT TO DESCRIBE DRAGO.

MORE LIKE AN ABSOLUTE BUM!

You are correct in pointing out that we are landing most of the people we go after. In that sense Howland has done a great job. The problem has been who we set our target on. Far too many busts. We just need to do a better job of picking the right guys for our team and then doing the recruiting job we have been doing.
Great post, I agree with the list of which guys panned out from each class.

1 ML JA for like 10 minutes max to give ML a breather
2 MM Roll off the bench, he’s serviceable, but not a starter
3 Honeycutt Drago for like 10 min. max
4 BL Keefe for 5 min. max
5 REEVES Bobo for like 10 min. Get it together kid!

i know we might lose some games, but it’ll be easier on the eyes seeing these guys struggle then watch Drago chuck up ridiculous shots or see JA get beat off the ball everytime on defense. SMH

whos with me?

he might be a lil of a nutcase. but i do miss him. he was our 2nd best player. what a shame. it’s not like he assaults women or anything…DRAGO. Drago is still on the team and Drew isn’t? SMH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmfnzD-6V_Y&feature=player_embedded

really needs to start developing his young players. Start the freshmen and and have the seniors come in just as subs, to give the young players a rest.

CBH could take a page or two from Mike Riley’s book. He almost never gets the best recruits (except maybe the Rogers brothers) but he improves them over time and then has 8-10 seasons every year. I know Mike Riley obviously coaches a different sport, but hey he’s one of the best coaches out there.

Our next two recruits next year seem good but if they are hype too, CBH really needs to try to bring out the best in them so they can contribute to the team in a positive way.

so funny, and yet so sad. However, though I have only meager evidence to support my view, I believe that ND, though admittedly lost and operating in the midst of near chaos without the support he needs, is a legitimate scrub and not a bum or a zero. As for those who want MR to sit, what games have you been watching? He is our only consistent scorer, now that the egomaniacal DG has gone. I think we would drop into the 30’s or 40’s without him, and he plays hard every minute. To me, he is a near-warrior, the only remnant of past glory. I do subscribe to the youth movement theory in general, though, because there is no alternative. And let me add that I think JA will improve, too. Let me ask who he should be throwing the ball to, as PG? I do think the rotation has to be shortened and settled, and soon. Unfortunately, few players have really established themselves so far. But we have to get down to 8 players who get the minutes, understand their roles, and play basketball together. They should be MR, ML, RN and…?

Call the reasons for this year’s problems whatever you want. The bottom line is the bottom line, and this is shaping up as one of, if not the worst, post-Coach Wooden teams ever. What alarms me more than the depressing, uninspired losses is the fact there is no sense of shame or urgency coming from the players, but most importantly, the coach. They could turn it around tomorrow if a sense of urgency and purpose were there. No, not to win a championship, but to put a well-conditioning, hard-working, well-coached team on the floor every time they play.

CRN has turned the vibe of the football team around. You feel it when you watch. What do you feel when you watch a basketball game today? I would tell you how I feel, but I’d be banned from the board.

At the end of the day the coach is the custodian and/or guardian of the legacy. And right now, that enormous sucking sound is our team and our legacy in tatters. Let’s fix things now Coach Howland. You owe it to the man who used to occupy your office and your seat on the Pauley bench.

Go Bruins!!

No matter who CBH recruits, we should not be witnessing such offensive struggles. I realize that some shots are not in the scheme of things but when you take an open look it must draw iron! Yes I am talking to you Drago. These games are hard to watch. I am just simply floored by our offensive ineptness.

On a side note, I realize that OUR defensive takes time to master. I do not expect much right now. I do however expect to see improvement from game to game. To date I have not.

but this current roster has not shown the skills or team speed much less the desire required to make the system work. In several games so far this year, including yesterday’s rout, we do not have one mismatch in our favor. And, the mismatches created by the other team are so glaring that if the other team does not get a layup or a dunk, they will certainly end up with a wide open look at a three. And, if they get hot from the outside as they did yesterday and vs. Portland, the game is effectively over by halftime. Opposing teams are almost begging us to double team in the post so they can swing the ball around to any number of open 3 pt. shooters.

And, on the offensive side, the only consistent scorer we have is MRoll. MLee and Honeycutt may develop into outside threats but once Roll graduates, I do not see enough shooters on this roster to make up for the defensive shortcomings. RNelson will get his points. But, he has a LONG way to go on the defensive side of the ball. BLane seems to have some upside and with Dragovic in his shooting slump, I would much rather see him on the floor to get him some experience and to find out what his upside might be. Unfortunately, Bobo (and probably Stover) appears to be a four year project who may or may not pan out – reminds me a lot of Ryan Hollins. It is going to be a long year. Hopefully we will see that big jump that promising freshman make during their sophomore years.

Great post (the original is classic)!
Funny and sad as mentioned by others.

Now… what IS Howland’s take on all this?
Any indepth interviews?
Does he offer an explanation?
Is there a spot/blog here on this website that points to that?
Is there a compilation somewhere of ongoing post-game takes from the man himself?
Somebody help.
What does Ben say?

I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this, but per the LAT the current team will watch past films of the Bruins showing how to get it done. Great idea, and what a sharp contrast if they were then to “fast forward” through the film of yesterday’s debacle at Pauley in front of Coach Wooden. CBH did say he was very sorry the team played so poorly yesterday in front of CW. Seeing the post photo of our former “warriors” (mentally blocking out Dragovich) made me very nostalgic. Hope CBH takes drastic measures to turn this mess around.

Way back when (spring semester 1967 — yes, still on the semester system) a very wise Poli Sci prof (Steven Spiegel) cautioned me not to create self fulfiling prophesies. I have tried to heed that advice ever since, though psychologically it is often times hard to resist doing. As I watch this year’s Bruin bb team and in conjunction read what is being written about them I can’t help but feel that we (BN as a whole but not everyone individually) have already created the prophesy (that this team stinks), and the team is simply in the process of fulfilling that prophesy. Now that assumes they read these blogs and others out there and I don’t know that to be true. But if the tone of much that we see here is reflective of the feelings and attitudes all around campus and LA in general, then I believe we’re just setting these guys up for failure. It may be true that many are not living up to their hype, but I agree that within their limitations they are for the most part giving it their all. If not, wouldn’t CBH bench them? We don’t have to be pollyana about the team, but neither do we have to grind away at their deficiencies. Its still college ball and these kids are still impressionable and easily believe what they’re told about themselves (both positive and negative). My guess is that CBH is still trying to use a positive approach (maybe he takes it too far in never showing any anger, frustration etc) and I’d like to see more from our loyal fans out there. The Kansas game comes to mind: after what I thought to be a great effort and encouraging improvement all around, it was hard to find much in the blogosphere that still didn’t focus on what was still going wrong and who was never going to make it at the college level and who was an overhyped recruit. If I was 18 years old and playing ball for CBH, it would be hard to resist not getting down.

I would like to personally defend Jrue and make clear that he is NOT a scrub. He came in to Westwood assuming that Darren would be gone and he could create and have the ball in his hands. The issue we saw with him is that he is a point guard and not a combo guard. He was our best defensive player and played very admirably and you can recall him shutting down Demar Derozan in the 2nd half at the Galen Center last year. When he had the ball in his hands he showed why he was so hyped as he could get to the bucket and finish with the best of them as well as find the open man.
Did I expect more form him? Of course I did because he was supposed to be most ready player in the ENTIRE class. I kinda feel bad that he didn’t get to have the ball in his hands all the time because that is how he can best contribute to the team. I appreciate him busting his ass and playing a big part in our season last year and is NOT a scrub

Recruiting JS to be an oft-injured 5-year player was genius. Never mind that in the summer between freshman and sophomore year he was being described as the most talented guy in that class by NBA players playing against him in summer pickup, and would probably have left early if he had had stayed injury-free and fulfilled his ability.

Similarly, bringing in a guy like DC who would turn down the opportunity of the NBA after his junior season at his highest stock point, and return for his senior year with a weaker team, was very smart.

I also like the way he convinced Ced Bozeman to get injured so that he could return for a 5th year as a key member of a Final Four team alongside the talented sophomores. Unfortunate that that gave JF the exposure in his freshman year to become a 2-and-done player, though, probably would have returned as a junior if he hadn’t already had 2 years starting at the point.

Recruiting RW as a 2-and-done was an unfortunate move, CBH should have done more to plan for that eventuality.

Not everyone we want can we get due to admission standards, boring or non-existant offense sets, many not interested in playing in your face defense, and to an extent outdated facilities. Of course, winning would heal a lot of problems and shut a lot of us up but that isn’t going to happen.Tthe defense breaks down, we get behind and do not have or have not demonstratyed the offensive ability to catch up. It is going to be a very long and frustrating season but I do see a better team in 2010-2011.

JH clearly has ‘legitimate talent’. He may not have had the right mental make-up to play in CBH’s system, but the guy went in the first round of the draft.

If DC hadn’t started his junior season injured and forced RW into the point guard spot for the non-conference games, who knows if DC wouldn’t have been the one going to the NBA with RW sticking around for another year?

JH facilitating for a junior RW might have looked very different from DC trying to facilitate for JH.

I am not defending what we saw from JH last season in terms of effort. I only mean to point out that a) he IS legitimately talented and b) when he committed, things looked different.

I would also add: the recruiting process takes YEARS, particularly if you are looking at elite players. Recruiting guys who are 14 years old to fit into a basketball system, meet academic standards and fulfil their talent must contain an element of luck. We got really lucky to have a smooth transition of talented players for three years of Final Fours – somewhat influenced by timings of injuries and NBA-related decisions – and now we have been unlucky for 2 years where the same things have worked against us.

Here is what I think is the most charitable case (re CBH) you can put forward explaining the current situation, while tying in with some of the posts above.

Prior to 2008-9 season:
Knows he is going to lose KL, LMR and at least one of DC/RW. Luckily has a bunch of scholarships to hand out and goes after some players

JH – a highly talented guard with an offensive game at high school that looked transcendent; could be an elite 1-and-done guard if taught how to play some defense

DG – athletic big man, talented, bench player for one year and a couple of years starting PF

JA – likely starting PG of the future
ML – combo guard of the future
JM – bench player/project for one year, but with upside as a starting center in the future.

Looks like a good, balanced class.

BUT Problem #1: media hypes class to ridiculous levels
Problem #2: with RW leaving and DC staying, no legitimate competition for JH at the shooting guard position

2008-9 season:
Overly-lauded freshman class expect to be handed serious minutes on a final-four-type team; JH never has to fight for minutes, DG gets some limited minutes without trying as the only legitimate athletic big behind PAA; JMM, JA and ML decide not to fight to increase their minutes behind hard-working seniors PAA, DC and JS, and niche shooters ND and MR, and instead kick back, relax and wait for next year.

2008-9: team doesn’t achieve much; competitiveness of practices slumps due to disgruntled, overhyped freshmen failing to push seniors. Somewhat like in Platoon, half the guys are with DC, half the guys are with DG. JH ends up bolting for the NBA.

Prior to 2009-10: CBH brings in some players to complement current squad: hard-working LMR type in RN, physically gifted swingman in TH. But culture in squad has changed with the departure of senior leadership. Rising sophomores, led by DG, have never fought in practice for their minutes and now expect to inherit the starting roles. Only players left over from the grind-hard teams are role players MR, ND and JK, who have never had to lead the team (thanks to JF/AA/DC/JS/PAA etc).

2009-10: CBH attempts to recreate the culture of competition in the squad that has driven past team intensity, but sophomores as a group don’t buy into it; they are their own faction, led by disgruntled DG who wants team to start playing to his strengths. Seniors keep bringing it in practice because they know that hustle can keep them in the team, but they are playing for their positions rather than leading the team culture. Freshmen unsure what to make of the situation. RN brings it; TH is injured; others are confused.

CBH has enough of DG’s insubordination and sends him a message by suspending him. DG reacts by transferring midway through the season.

And now we are where we are. CBH keeps playing seniors who have earned their place through practice, even if they are not performing like prior teams on the court; CBH hopes sophomores wake up now that DG is off the team, seeing the opportunity to work hard and the consequences of failure; CBH goes back to trying to instil practice intensity into a freshman class that came into a weird spot.

This is clearly a speculative post, but seems to fit a lot of the facts, and the questions being asked on this board this year (and last year) about player personnel decisions, playing time, etc. Why didn’t the freshmen get on the court last year? Because they were overhyped and came to a collective sense of entitlement led by a bad egg, and didn’t earn any more time. Why does CBH persist with seniors this year? Because they are still the ones who ‘get it’, and he is trying to break any sense of entitlement for younger players.

It strikes me that RN and TH also ‘get it’, and will earn their minutes this year. The sophomores should be embarrassed that they aren’t forcing their way into the team ahead of career role players, and can either buy into the program, transfer or warm the bench with their scholarship. The other frosh may or may not step up, but their development has been retarded by the mess at the start of this season. Too early to judge them, imho.

I would say CBH ‘missed’ big time on the JH/DG class, because they did not demonstrate the character required to play his way. I don’t see a pattern of bad recruiting, just one large class that did not have the leadership to man up. Yes, that class screws us up for this year, and will echo somewhat into the future; but I think the headline of the main post here, “Is CBH’s recruiting killing the Bruins?”, takes things too far.

The point of my earlier (knee-jerk and terse) reaction is that we got really lucky in some respects in being able to spread out a talented set of players from the 2004 and 2005 classes over a number of years; we never had to rebuild because , partly through a combination of injuries and decisions of players to stay or go, in each of our final four years we had a combination of talent, experience and depth. But the transition last year and this year is where things get ugly; overhyped frosh not buying in to CBH’s system last year, and senior leaders departing at the end of last year. If things had worked out differently, we might have had a worse year last year or the year before, and not be having such a bad year this year. Whatever. It is speculation. And unimportant given where we are. Just explaining where my reaction was coming from.

If I might take issue with your original post once more: the 2006 recruiting class was not a bust. We brought in a guy who eventually became a top-5 NBA draft pick, and we brought in two players who were solid 4-year role players. Only problem is, they are now forced into starting roles. That doesn’t make them scrubs, it means that they are not the right people for the role forced upon them. At the time though, could you really recruit a bunch of star players to sit that season behind DC, AA, JS and LRMAM?

The following year, we returned a bunch of players and had limited scholarships to hand out. We added another top-5 NBA pick in KL, and gave a scholarship to Stanback (who eventually came to the realization he wasn’t going to break into the extended rotation and transferred). Again, when returning a talent core of DC, JS, LRMAM, and experienced role players, how much better could we have done with recruiting?

I guess my main substantive point here is that what you see as a ‘trend’ seems like a cycle to me, given the recruiting constraints and needs CBH faced in each year you describe. 2006 and 2007 seem like perfectly reasonable classes, given the constraints faced at the time. Where CBH missed was the current sophomore class, which allegedly had the talent of the 2004 class but evidently did not have the character.

And we disagree as to whether JK and ND are role players or scrubs. I think your characterization of them as scrubs is based on circumstance (that they are forced to be starters) and on failure to live up to recruiting ratings (which we agree shouldn’t be part of the recruitment equation for CBH, so, imho, shouldn’t be part of our assessment of their performance ).

When we were winning with CBH 2-3 seasons ago, everyone was here jumping on the bandwagon saying that “IN COACH WE TRUST!” With one losing season, now we see people calling him Ben? This has been a bad year for us. I know we want to win. I know 1 losing season at UCLA is not acceptable. BUT COME ON! Who’s staying on the team or jumping off the bandwagon? Like our football team is struggling to climb back up, we need to keep our support. Does that mean we don’t criticize…NO! I agree, CBH has been very stubborn. I agree that perhaps he’s been too busy recruiting 5 star guys and overlooking if they are hustling on defense, are they defensive minded. I especially fault the scouts and other staffers who are supposed to be evaluating the players to see who will fit CBH’s schemes. I definitely agree that ND is a liability more than an asset on the court. But CBH has been following his schemes for so long and he’s been successful. There must be other reasons he can’t sub all the new guys in for the inefficient seniors. Perhaps doing so will further divide the locker room that seems to be already cranked up.

But to fault all of this season on CBH is a little out of line, IMHO. I know CBH can coach. We didn’t lose to Florida and Memphis because we were outcoached. We lost because we didn’t have the right players to counter their longer players.

I agree with someone here who suggested that the scouting is perhaps where the problem lies. They are presenting our coach with 5 star players and asking him to pick. I don’t know exactly how the recruiting process goes, but I’m sure there are scouts who narrow down the pool of players for CBH. These are the people that needs to more on the ball.

IN COACH I TRUST!

Yes it does seem that we don’t put everything we have into every game, we look lazy, uninspired and disinterested. However, I think we do have a pretty solid base to build off of and I guarantee you there will be nobody leaving early.

MR- He understands what it means to be a true Ben Ball Warrior and how to play the right way. He is a much more complete basketball player, works hard on defense and is far and away our best shooter
ML- Shows that love and passion for the game at times and really gets after it on D, his ceiling is still sky high and should continue to improve throughout the year. Should really jump after the year when he gets stronger in the offseason.
TH- The verdict is still out on TH due to being hurt and not being able to get a good enough look but it seems as if he has the will and desire to be a true Ben Ball Warrior
MM- Plays good defense but limited on offense. Showed some flashes earlier in the year and has a lot of versatility with the ability to guard 1-3 and could be a very solid role player in the future
RN- I don’t think anything needs to be said about his heart and passion.

We haven’t seen enough out of the rest of the freshman BL,and AS to really comment on their desire but the point is 5 players isn’t a program. The problem I see with our recruiting is that we need to start getting hard nosed ball players and that means looking at Fairfax, Taft, Westchester and other teams that play that disciplined tough brand of basketball right here in our backyard.

I agree that we should all be very worried about the state of the program and that CBH should probably be adjusting as the whole landscape of college basketball is since the 1 and done came into effect. But don’t forget that we do have CBH and we will be ok.

IN COACH I TRUST!!!

If you want to talk about giving his all and playing in the tradition of CW, give the kid some playing time. Might instill some enthusiasm in others who lack it.

that BN loves RN. Go RN!

As I recall, there was much jubilation when we got our last two recruiting classes. I don’t recall any comments that suggested Coach Howland had missed the boat. Every comment that I remember was thrilled with our incoming talent. Maybe there were some nay-sayers, but I don’t remember them. (I’m not particularly skilled at finding these specific articles, and even if I could find them, I don’t know how to link.

Now, the sentiment seems to be that Coach Howland recruited a bunch of guys who are just stiffs (or “scrubs” as someone described them.) Some of the players are “lazy,” although as I recall there was unanimity of opinion that Coach Howland had recruited a class of great character guys.

Is this a geezer memory moment for me? Or is geezer-memory-itis afflicting some of you younger Bruins? Did I miss the accross-the-board criticism of Coach Howland’s recruiting for the past two years?

I think it would be appropriate to rein in the criticism of the coach and the team until the end of the year. I think we can assume that the coach will coach the way he wants to coach for the balance of the season, seeing as how his ultra-stubbornness has been exposed for all to see on the BN. Is there also a consensus that all the negative comments about our players will help them improve? It seems to me that it is likely to have the opposite effect. Let’s save the negativity until after the season. Maybe we can convince all the horrible players on the team to transfer, and we can get some real players in here, players that the members of the BN will think are wonderful additions to the team. Players like the recruits of the last two years. Oh, wait. Forget about that last sentence.

I think we have fallen into the trap that Duke has been in for a number of years now. Because of CBH’s success in developing under the radar players, rivals/scouts etc. rank CBH recruits higher. When UCLA shows an interest in a player as a soph or junior, they automatically gain cred with the scouts. We all look at the recruiting class and see three 4 star recruits and think we’ve got studs. However, we’ve got overhyped 3 star recruits who have an inflated ego. What worries me is that our staff may not be doing their homework and may be relying on publications to validate their opinions of players.

I think we have to realize that all classes have guys who exceed expectations and guys who never live up to the hype. CHB recognized that we were outclassed athletically in those tourney losses and has pursued better athletes. I feel for the staff because it’s a tough position to be in. How many posts have we seen asking “Can CBH win the big one?” He clearly has a system and a coaching style that works when the players are willing to commit to it, but he’s an old school tough guy coach who pushes players hard and doesn’t let them exhibit themselves to the detriment of the team. A lot of prima donnas will not like CBH’s no bullsh*t style, but we aren’t going to see warriors without the attitude that style instills.

One more thing… This is really CBH’s first attempt to maintain a high level program. He moved up in the university hierarchy every 5 years or so. Now he’s at the top and has to maintain a program. He has to do a better job planning his recruiting for the long term, but these are lessons I think he will learn and adjust to.

One random analogy – recruiting players to play CBH’s brand of basketball from high schools playing up-tempo run-and-gun, defense-optional styles of play is like NFL talent scouts trying to assess quarterbacks who play the Spread Offense in college. You can see some of the physical tools, but you don’t know if they will get the system.