Wallgate Followup: Neuheisel Takes The Pete Carroll Route Of Installing Discipline
by Nestor on Dec 17, 2009 5:34 AM PST
in Football
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PrintRick Neuheisel came down really hard on his football team for ditching practice before bowl game:
On Wednesday, the entire team was forced to run a few extra sprints for skipping practice.
Can't imagine how many times Bruin fans including us here on BN have made fun of Pom Pom for disciplining his players by running extra laps. Now we have to read this. LOL Guess that's the way of karma getting us back. He then explained away his tough actions:
When I explained it to them, why I didn’t want them to do it last spring, I said it started as a bowl deal," Coach Rick Neuheisel said. "If we get to a bowl, I’ll understand it. For me to act like I don’t understand would be a little hypocritical.
"Now would I prefer we wouldn’t do it? Sure. Because coaches always think we could use the time. But part of a team is camaraderie. I know there are people out there that think we should be using every waking moment to be ready for a bowl. We’re going to be ready to play."
Neuheisel intimated the "over the wall" tradition might need to be reviewed next season.
"As years go on, you change deals," he said. "We’ll figure out what deal we need to make next year."
In other words, he doesn't sound all that anxious and worried about UCLA football looking like a joke to rest of college football world. Before I close the loop on this couple of more funny (that's the best I can put it) sidenotes. Apparently Ben Olson was defending this nonsense on Jon Gold's podcast per bluebland:
Check out Ben Olson today. "Not a big deal…just one practice…this is not the NFL…stress."
I wonder how Ben Olson knows so much about playing the NFL? May be I forgot how he played in it after winning all those Pac-10 championships at UCLA. And then there was Milton Knox embracing this "tradition":
"This is the type of thing you talk about 30 years from now," redshirt freshman running back Milton Knox said. "I'm assuming (cornerbacks coach Carnell) Lake and (wide receiver coach) Reggie Moore probably sit back and talk about theirs all the time. It was a tradition started from way back, and what can I say, it's something that, 30 years from now, when we have kids and we're all old and fat and gray, we're going to say, `Remember when we walled bowl practice?"'
If 30 years from now all Milton has only the wall experience to talk about with his team-mates, I shudder to think what exactly he will end up accomplishing as a football player in Westwood. When Neuheisel got here and fired up the alumni base he didn't do it by talking about going over the wall, he did it by talking about his memories of beating SC and winning Rose Bowls. I don't know if the coaches or the folks at UCLA's media relations have told these guys how ridiculous they sound defending this nonsense.
Anyway, as I said yesterday for Neuheisel's sake and the sake of this program, hope the "camradrie" shows through a convincing bowl win over a non-BCS program. Everyone here wants the kids (yes, we know they are kids) in our program to have fun. More importantly, we also want the kids in this program honor their scholarship to attend one of the best universities in the country, work their rear ends of in their class rooms, practice field, and then shine through on game days. If December 29th turns out to be a disappointing game day for Neuheisel and his players, the upcoming off season will not be fun. I will leave it at that.
GO BRUINS.
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DON'T BE A CHRISTMAS GRINCH NESTOR
why is it so wrong for these young men to have some fun?…it’s a lower level bowl game and i am sure they are all happy to be playing one more game, and it seems they were sort of promised this if/when they got a bowl bid…if it does help team morale and it will be memorable for these guys years from now when they get a chance to look back, what is the problem with that?…i say LET THEM ENJOY THE WHOLE EXPERIENCE OF BEING A BRUIN…including GOING OVER THE WALL…
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL…and to all GOOD NIGHT!
by bruincheerleader on Dec 17, 2009 6:09 AM PST reply actions
Im with Rick on this one
If CRN felt the team needed more practices, he wouldn’t have cancelled the two last weekend.
I agree it is particularly stupid during the regular season when you have a very short time frame to prepare for a game. but I don’t think it really matters before a bowl, particularly more than 2 weeks before the game. You are still going to get in all the practices the coaching staff wants with two weeks to fit them in.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Dec 17, 2009 6:35 AM PST reply actions
IMHO, the problem is not preparing for Temple.
I don’t believe we will be actively installing a game plan for that specific game until next week.
The problem is it is one less day to get the younger guys ready for NEXT season. This is an opportunity (and, on Monday, an opportunity that was indeed used) to get the younger guys ready. To get Brehaut snaps. To get other freshman involved with the first team reps. (Randall Carroll said that the recent increased reps. have helped him more fully understand the offense). To get a head start on Spring practice. To work on things UCLA was not able to work on last season because they didn’t go to a bowl.
We all know next season’s schedule is brutal. Perhaps the toughest in the nation. Every little bit counts. Look at Michigan which is defending accusations that they violated practice limitations. I am not in any way shape or form condoning this or suggestion UCLA does it, but it shows that some teams will bend the rules for a competitive advantage. UCLA is not even taking advantage of what is given to them within the rules. This is a missed opportunity.
by orlandobruin on Dec 17, 2009 6:43 AM PST up reply actions
he can make up the practice on another day if he feels it is necessary
it was skipped more than two weeks out, and knowing Rick, I would not be surprised if he put in an extra day knowing it was going to be missed. He’s a pretty well thought out guy.
Also, he made an agreement with the players they could do it. I am not sure how you can discipline players for doing what you and they agreed to? Backing away from your word would be a much worse message to send IMHO.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Dec 17, 2009 7:03 AM PST up reply actions
I will try very hard
To bite my lip till the bowl game after the post above (unless I see more dumb comments from players “defending” this). If we beat Temple, this issue will be moot (unless it is revived again next season).
They must not only beat Temple...
but do it in convincing fashion. That does not necessarily mean by 50 points, but more in terms of game management, execution and disciple. If those three phases shine through then I would agree with CRN’s sentiments that one practice did not make a difference and he still had ample time to prepare the team. Until then…
Also, thanks Nestor for ‘leaving it at that’. We should all just ‘bit our lip’ for now.
I get it
It’s just one practice. There’s plenty of time to prepare. Fine. The issue I have is the culture and the image of the program, a program that has wallowed in mediocrity for a decade, a program that the last time it was on the field was getting embarrassed by its cross town rival.
A blow out win over Temple doesn’t completely absolve this matter. I want to see the carryover next year. Another 6-6 season cuminating with a another loss to SC in the Rose Bowl will bring forth serious questions regarding the leadership of this program, with this incident as a reference point.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
Yep
Can’t agree more with this:
Another 6-6 season culminating with a another loss to SC in the Rose Bowl will bring forth serious questions regarding the leadership of this program, with this incident as a reference point.
Not going to be happy with those results next season.
One game at a time.
Right now, we blow out Temple, it would be very positive. Before even thinking about next year, this needs to get done.
Agreed
It also doesn’t help that the most of the Pac-10 teams are going to be stronger next year. We need to have higher expectations for next year, and it really does start now. I too will wait and see what the Temple game brings. Honestly, I don’t think this kind of culture exists in top college programs. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong.
One team I compare our development to is Georgia Tech. Paul Johnson came in at GA Tech the same time CRN started at UCLA. I see what he has done there in a matter of only 2 years (beat GA and 9 wins in Year 1, and conference champion/BCS bowl in Year 2). He worked the hell out of his players in the off-season and I strongly doubt they have a team “tradition” of skipping out on even just one practice. There’s no way Johnson could have installed the triple option with that much success if he didn’t instill a culture of hard work on his team. Granted he had more talent to work with than we did, but a conference championship and BCS bowl in only his 2nd year?
Don’t we deserve the same kind of success? Shouldn’t we expect that kind of success?
by Kerckhoff405 on Dec 17, 2009 8:36 AM PST up reply actions
I work with a guy from GTech
My impression from talking with him is that the personnel issues aren’t at all similar. What Johnson has done is nothing short of impressive, but it has little to no application to our situation. Of course, there is the possibility that as a fan he overestimates the existing talent of his rooting interest, but he’s the only point of reference I have on their roster, so I’ll take what I can get.
If you consider how radically different his system is
That makes it even more impressive.
Practice rules?
I don’t know how this whole situation can’t be a little unnerving to a fan that is desperately waiting for a consistently solid football program to cheer for. It’s not like anybody has earned the benefit of the doubt here.
That being said, can someone clarify what the NCAA rules and limitations are for pre-bowl practices? Seems to me that if they are burning a finite resource, it’s really inexcusable. If it can be made up in the future, essentially rescheduling practice for a day when they were supposed to be off, then it’s probably a non-issue.
Did Allen Iverson speak to the players?
“We talkin’ ’bout practice?! Not a game… not a game… but practice!”
we talkin bout practice man, practice
so if we lose it was because we missed one practice? cmon….
by ositosfan on Dec 17, 2009 8:33 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Well, just like my martial arts teacher says
You fight like you train
by Kerckhoff405 on Dec 17, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
Much Ado about Nothin
Comraderie is more important than one stinkin practice at this point. The team is trying to find a way to bond. I’m only sorry the whole team didn’t go over the wall. Let it go. I agree with CRN on this one. And I trust him when he says the team will be ready to play.
Agree
I’m not terribly worried about one practice making or breaking our team, and as anyone who has been a part of any team (athletic or otherwise) can probably reiterate, it’s little things like what happened that bring teammates together. (I still remember “kidnapping” teammates at the crack of dawn and other fun things like that in college.) At the end of the day, these are college kids – not professional athletes – and I while I do expect them to put in their best efforts, I also expect them to have fun throughout it all. They worked hard all season and I’m giving them a pass this time.
by JoeBruin9900 on Dec 17, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Except
there was no camaraderie.
Some players were in on it and wanted to do it.
Others weren’t.
That doesn’t sound like camaraderie to me, especially if the players just went and did their own thing afterwards instead of doing something together.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
If it is true that we will still get in the maximum amount of practice
That is allowed us under the rules, then I’ll have to change my opinion to this being not that big of a deal. I get the arguments about what kind of message this sends and all of that, but from an objective standpoint, this is a zero sum game if they make up the practice later.
Bill Cosby
So CRN was on Dan Patrick this morning, they quoted Cosby as saying, “The Bruins players are going to freeze!” Some other things also, but don’t recall the rest.
Get ready, looks like it should be a good bowl game. LA Times prediction is that Temple is going to win. This perception needs to change.
Chrissy Dufresne of the LAT
also predicted that BC would beat $C in the Nut Bowl.
I do think $C will lose but I think we will win.
Just a few comments
I’m hesitant to post this, seeing as I’m not an active poster, so hopefully my arguments stand by themselves without a reputation to back them:
Nestor, I think you’re unfairly misconstruing all those quotes. First, I don’t see Rick trying to explain away the Wall, nor do I think it shows he doesn’t care about UCLA looking like the laughing stock of college football. If he spoke too strongly against the players, it would damage his relationship with them – even more so because, at his own admission, he went over the wall himself back in his day. And he can’t say anything else beyond “we’ll be ready,” since that would look like he’s pre-blaming the loss to Temple on this practice. I’m not sure what else he could have said. His words shows he understands and acknowledges the “tradition,” but at the same time diplomatically shuts it down next year.
As for the punishment, I could be wrong on this, but my understanding is that practice time is limited – any time spent in practice on punishment is time taken away from actually practicing. No point in losing time here.
And that’s a fairly cheap shot at Ben Olson. His NFL comment, as far as I can tell, is just stating that collegiate athletes don’t have multimillion dollar contracts resting on every single game they play, and that there’s other things beyond wins and losses at play. A fair assessment by me. Now, his “it’s not a big deal” comment is wide open for debate, but dragging in his unfortunate string of injuries (and if you wish, Karl Dorrell’s coaching) into this and mocking him for failing to get into the NFL is uncalled for.
And on somewhat similar grounds: “If 30 years from now all Milton has only the wall experience to talk about with his team-mates, I shudder to think what exactly he will end up accomplishing as a football player in Westwood.” This is a straw man argument. Did he say that going over the wall was going to be his only experience?
Playing Devil's Advocate
Say you’ve been studying for the bar exam six days a week for the past five months. A little over two weeks away from the big test, your roommates come to you and say it’s [fill in the blank with the tradition of your choice, so long as you find said tradition valuable to you personally] Day and you’ve gotta join them. Don’t know about anyone else here but I probably lead the charge out the door.
With regard to Knox comment, which of us remembers studying sessions more fondly than the periodic escapes from studying sessions.
Here's another analogy
Fail the bar exam (poor showing against Temple) and you may look back on your “tradition” and decide it was a bad idea, and has been all along, since you’re pulling a ‘C’ average in law school for about a decade.
And when you tell a law firm that is looking to hire you (the fans) that “it was only one day” and “it really brought my roommates together”, how do you think they’ll respond to that?
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
You're right, the bar exam was a bad analogy
because it is the definitive climactic moment of your academic life if you’re going into the field of law. Meanwhile, this “game” is one of 40 to 50 “games” that these kids will play in their collegiate career.
Again, just playing devil’s advocate here.
Guess different people have diff MO
I took the bar exam. And for me the cut off date to go out was 4th of July (that is going out provided all Bar Bri assignments were done) weekend, which was a month before the exam. After that it was all out focus and prep for the exam.
Yes, we did take time out to relax the 2-3 final weekends leading up to exam but it didn’t involve wasting the whole day away.
Compare what Olson said to Aboya
“Any practice you miss is a practice you can never have back.”
He said that after missing one because of injury last season. And basketball practices much more frequently than football, with no down time. I guess I can understand Olson having no strong feelings about practice, since spent 90% of them watching from the sideline.
We could’ve had fifteen practices for this game. The first two were cancelled because of wetness. Then CRN announced 12, which has become 11. He said he might add a practice Sunday to make up but probably not. I don’t think we will get the most out of this opportunity.
Quick note: The amount you can practice is based on
number of hours per week, not number of days practicing. The rule was changed prior to this year. So, we could still maximize our amount of time practicing for a bowl by either having longer practices or adding a day of practice.
by bornagainbruin on Dec 17, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
In today's times
CRN said if he didn’t like how practices were going, he would add one on Sunday.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on Dec 17, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
FWIW
and I’m not saying that Neuheisel’s actions are either good or bad, but perhaps CRN is letting the kids have their Holiday fun now because they won’t get to later (I know this seems like a stupid argument but hear me out).
The team practices here in Westwood until a couple of days before Christmas. Then the players get to return home to their families. However, because CRN wants to get some extra practices in the DC weather, the team is leaving unusually early. Their flight leaves at 10am on the 25th…bye bye Christmas morning. From that point on it is all business, when everyone else is home with their families or on vacation.
I know that wacky schedules are the nature of the beast when it comes to athletics, but it was CRN’s decision to leave so early, and on Christmas morning no less. Maybe he is conscious of this when dealing with things like over the wall.
Again, this is not an excuse for his response, merely an offering into the thought process behind it.
CRN pretty much confirms
what I thought. His prior statements to the players basically tied his hands on this one. Which is why my gripe isn’t so much with the players going over the wall or missing practice. CRN essentially signalled it was fine with him “if” only they made it to a bowl.
Yeah, we finished with a .500 record. Yeah, we lost to SUC, again, in a very down year for them with a mediocre freshman QB. Yeah, we never did get any of our QBs up to speed at the position the entire season. Yeah, we never developed a consistent runner all year. Yeah, our receivers had the dropsies at the worst possible times. Yeah, our defense was inconsistent the whole year. Yeah, we finished 7th or 8th in the conference [does it really matter which?] Yeah, we had more stupid mental mistakes and penalties from the first game to the last. Yeah, we’ve got a ton of talented freshmen that barely got to play and could use the practice …
But hey, thanks to a Navy team hat would prbably kick the snot out of us, we backed into another major “bowl game.” CRN’s promise is a promise!
And whose to say taking off a day of practice and wasting the coaches’ whole day with our little surprise would make a difference anyway? Get off the kids’ backs you curmudgeons!
Come to think of it, the kids are robably right. It wouldn’t, at least not with the culture that CRN is building. Practice, shmactice. What difference does it make? We can turn it on whenever we want, right?
Right. Like I say, my problem is not with the kids. They followed the lead. I don’t criticize kids. I question the adults.
I question CRN’s judgment. i question his leadership. I want to see warriors, not wall climbers.
I think this stops next year. Enough on this point.
Prove me wrong kids. Bail out CRN.
GO BRUINS! BEAT TEMPLE.
While I have criticized CRN
Please stop the misinformation about UCLA “backing” into a bowl game. We didn’t.
We had the options to pursue to either go to Humanitarian or the GMAC bowl. We chose not to pursue those opportunities for financial reasons. We held out for the bowl in DC which was contingent on Army-Navy game. However, it is really stretching it to say we “backed” into a bowl game.
Your heart is in the right place, Nestor.
But when you talk about the “opportunity” to go to a couple of the worst bowls in college football it is a bad sign for the state of our program.
The fact is we finished 3-6 in the Pac 10 two years in a row, with two of those three wins against the bottom feeder Washington schools. This year we finished behind Washington, a team that did beat USC and Cal, so they improved. Our third win this year was against ASU that finished ninth and had no offense. Our other three wins were against Tennessee, a truly good win that I personally saw where playing conservatively worked because of Crompton’s interceptions, Kansas State and San Diego State.
Nobody wants UCLA to succeed more than me. I went to school when Gary Beban was our quarterback. Mel Farr was the running back. Those retro unies I love were the unies I grew up with. I was there for 21-20 SUC in 67. I remember what a real UCLA football team looks like. Coach Prothro held his own against USC and John McKay year in and year out with physically less gifted players.
That’s my standard. I’m so tired of Terry Donahue, Karl Dorell and CRN playing “not to lose football.”
I will watch UCLA-Temple and root for my team to win because hope springs eternal. But I will hold CRN accountable to a higher standard because this is UCLA with the ghosts of so many great players and coaches who were warriors. If he has a program worth that legacy at the end of four years, I will be the first to shake his hand. But I am extremely disappointed with his coaching to this point. It has been far from inspiring.
So we didn’t back in to a bowl? So what? We deserve better and CRN knows it.
I’m not saying anything he doesn’t know himself.
Yes we deserve better
But that doesn’t entail you to make up facts by asserting we backed into a bowl game. Thanks.
wait
wasn’t our bowl participation contingent on the Army-Navy game regardless of any discussions being had with Humanitarian/GMAC bowl, due to all other ‘at-large’ bowl spots being taken by 7-5 teams? My understanding was that there were a number of teams that could be shuffled around between Humanitarian/GMAC/etc, but that whether we were part of that shuffle depended entirely on Army not becoming bowl eligible.
Also, the fact that our bowl bid depended on the Notre Dame players voting not to play a bowl game after Charlie Weis was fired definitely supports the ‘backing into’ language… we absolutely had it under our control to earn an automatic bowl invitation, but in the end were a ‘bubble’ team relying on other teams to lose and Notre Dame to turn its nose up at a bowl.
What does ‘backing into’ even mean if it doesn’t apply to this turn of events?
by britishbruin on Dec 18, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
not that rooting for Wisconsin wasn't fun...
BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER BADGER etc
by britishbruin on Dec 18, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Good points.
But the main reason we had to wait was that our conference was really good this year and we are the 6th or 7th bowl team? Doesn’t mean CRN doesn’t need to do better, our entire team needs to step it up to finish the year strong and make a strong showing next year.
In the end, who cares if we backed in a bowl game or not? This really doesn’t matter in the big picture.
Seriously, I think CRH gets it.
Football – even UCLA football – is not life or death; its a game, and these are kids who (let’s not forget) are literally killing their bodies so that we (the masses) can be amused for 3 hours on a Saturday. I doubt that anyone who has actually ever played on the team would begrudge these kids a little goofing off. What’s the point of a game that becomes all work and no play? Sure it’s fun to win – but at all costs? Let’s keep in mind that WE are not the UCLA football team. WE do not walk of the field after a loss. WE go back to our real lives and write Sunday morning quarterback blogs about how disappointed we are with how other people conducted themselves in situations we’ve never been in and could never possibly be in. THEY leave the field stuck with the memories of how THEY played for life – not us.
Remember: let he who is without sin cast the first stone; and let he who had the opportunity and yet did not refuse to go over the wall, hold onto his.
Football -- even UCLA football is not life or death
It’s a lot more important than that.
I remember Red Sanders. My Dad took me to the Coliseum in 1954 and I saw a real UCLA football team.
Bring back the serpentine. Bring back the hard nosed, hard working football teams of the Sanders era.
And tell next year’s players that if they dare go over the wall, they should just keep on running.
Bleeding powderkeg blue and gold for 55 years. Go Bruins!
punishment seems severe
Is it me or is making them run extra sprints seem excessive? I mean if I had to run them I would probably die so making them do something that could lead to cardiac arrest seems like punishment enough. Of course it may not affect the kids as much as it would affect a guy approaching 40…
I blame CTS, he instilled in these seniors early with the drive to be mediocre. I feel bad for the kids who have had few opportunities to be real winners on the field because of CTS. I think it is a great tradition if you earned it, but 6-6 and many people questioning UCLA’s chances against Temple (non-BCS) is not really earning it.
Love the blog, great analysis.
by 41CanuckBruin on Dec 17, 2009 7:53 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Chance of death?
Running sprints is fine. Used to run them all day long on the track team.(High school) If my lazy ass could do it, so can theirs after jumping over the wall. Its one thing to do it in the summer and chance dehydration + heat stroke, in the winter with fluids, bust some asses!
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