Kansas Moves Past UCLA As Bruins Show Signs Of Progress
by Nestor on Dec 6, 2009 5:06 PM PST
in Basketball
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PrintThe final score reads Kansas 73 UCLA 61. While many of us were expecting a huge blowout win for number 1 ranked Kansas this afternoon at Pauley, Ben Howland's Bruins hung in there for most of the game, they were ultimately out manned by an overpowering Jayhawks basketball team. Here is the boxscore.
The Bruins fell behind by double digits early due to familiar sloppy performance on both ends of the court. We were absolutely atrocious as we turned the ball over something like 10 times in first 11 mintues. JMM particularly looked out of place. He stood like a statute in the paint, looking helpless on defense and clueless on the offensive end. Luckily we settled down a bit with ML running the point, and thanks to the hustle and tenacity of freshman Reeves Nelson, they closed within 7 points by half time and got within 4 points in the second.
The complexion of the game totally changed when Reeves Nelson was fouled and essentially knocked out with a poke in the eye with 14:07 left in the second half. JA missed the FT (yes, Kansas picked our starting pg to shoot FTs when RN was knocked out) and our intensity and emotion never matched what it was with a healthy RN in the game. RN made a valiant effort by trying to return with PAA's orange goggles in the game but it simply wasn't enough. We didn't get the leadership, poise, composure and tenacity from our three seniors (particularly Dragovic and Keefe), as Kansas simply overpowered Bruins down the stretch for their first true road win of the season.
I guess I shouldn't be so harsh in my first few grafs. After all we kept it close when everyone expected a blow out. For a young team, I guess that is signs of progress. However, at the same time I think we should be careful about not getting comfortable with moral victories, because last time we did that we had our guys embarrassed by Long Beach State.
RN is obiously the story for our Bruins. He played like a classic Ben Ball warrior. He was playing like the tenacity we are used to seeing from forwards such as PAA, LMR, and LRMAM. He was gunning for every lose balls, playing defense with a passion, and serving as the emotional lynch pin for the entire team. He finished the game with 9 points and 7 rebounds (5 of which came on the offensive side). Clearly he has lot more room to improve. He needs to finish around the rim as he missed from what I counted 3 layups (which he probably should have dunked them on). He will get them sooner or later.
ML looks much smooter and effortless at pg than JA. JA had some encouraging moments today. However, he is still getting beaten on the lose balls and looking tentetive when the team needs him the most. Oh and speaking of tentetive, it's sad but I think we can officially be disappointed at Keefe's career at UCLA. It simply hasn't worked out for him in Westwood. I hope he makes the best out of his remaining games and get a degree which he will be able to use be successful in life. However, he is not getting it done on any facets of the game. He doesn't have the tenacity on defense. Neither is he aggressive on the offensive side. Meanwhile, the other senior forward Dragovic, who shows hustle and desire at certain moments, continue to hurt this team with hurried shots and vanilla defense.
I understand that Coach Howland values experience of his seniors. However, after what we saw today, now more than ever we need him to play young guys such as Honeycutt, Lane and Moser lot more so that they can learn through experiences.TH was rusty in his first regular season action as a Bruin. However, you can see and feel his potential. He finished the game with 3 points but he also had 6 rebounds, 3 of which came from the offensive glass.
In terms of raw numbers, I mentioned above how TOs killed us early on. We had 10 in the first 11 mintues. We did a good job of settling down later on as we ended up having a total of 15 for the game. Guess that is some kind of progress. We continued to be atrocious from the FT line making 11 out of 19. That's just not good and will probably us hurt lot more throughout the season. It's inexusable and kind of a joke when Kansas calls out our pointguard to the FT line.
At this point we have seen enough for our seniors to know that they simply don't have enough talent to lead this team to a winning record (again forget making the tournament for now). BTW the team is winless since Dragovic returned to our rotation. While we saw encouraging signs today, it will not matter if we suffer another loss in our next game, in which seniors burn up lot more availble mins, costing our freshmen valuable playing time to develop during the non-conference season.
We will have lot more on the game later. For now those are some of my intial thoughts. As I said, don't care much about moral victories. If there were signs of progress this afternoon, it will not matter much if we don't build on them in our next game.Thread away.
GO BRUINS.
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The team came to play today
It came down to just not being as good as Kansas is, which is something we knew before the game, but they left everything out on the court. The most disappointing part of the day was the students not showing up. The courtside Den brought it, but the upper level students never filled more than 3 of their sections. They started letting other people sit in a couple of the students’ sections because they all knew that the sections wouldn’t be filled by students. It’s okay though. Those buses make it tough for the students to get there.
Formerly ryebreadraz
Did you get the emil with the picture?
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 6, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
And FWIW, it never got much better
That picture was taken about 2 minutes before tip. The rest of the arena filled up pretty well. There were some empty seats scattered about, but for the most part, it was full. The student section? Nope. Not only was it empty, but the students in the upper level were never standing, were barely cheering and some had their feet up in the seat in front of them. Except for a game or two a year though, that’s been the norm recently.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 6, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but the lottery system is the real killer
The tickets are pretty cheap, I think around $70 for the whole season. But the problem is that so few people get them because of the lottery system used to allocate tickets. The fact that these are non-transferable and people are unable to buy tickets the day of the game until right before tip further makes it difficult for people who might want to come to a few games, but not the whole season. Plus, you cant buy guest tickets IIRC.
^ this
There are probably 1000+ students that wanted basketball tickets and didn’t get them after which the only way they can get it is to line up and wait for tipoff to start before they’ll sell the no-show’s tickets. You can’t blame most for heading down to a bar or anywhere w/ a big tv instead of gambling on attendence vs #1 kansas and waiting most of the first half in line to try and get a ticket that is in NO WAY guaranteed. Although if #1 Kansas doesn’t bring out the lucky people who are wasting their season tickets.. word needs to be spread that that ticket booth WILL have tickets after tipoff.
There are always people outside Pauley giving away their tickets before games
Even for this game. My friend and I weren’t even looking but someone approached us to give us his tickets because we were dressed in Bruin gear. We didn’t need ’em because we snagged Den tickets this year…but it looked like the guy was actually having a hard time finding some Bruins to take the tickets.
And as for the rest of the stands, the only reason they were full was because about 1/4 of the season ticket holders apparently sold their seats to Kansas fans.
by gradstudentbruin on Dec 6, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
By my day ('76-'80), IIRC, tickets were 50 cents apiece ...
sold as a package before the beginning of the season and your student ID with a ticket was all you needed to gain admittance.
If attendance is such a problem, shame on the Athletic Department for making it so difficult for students to attend. Sounds like we need to revamp the system and be proactive about encouraging attendance of the maximum number of students.
Mine were 25 cents each about a decade earlier
And I join in saying shame on the Athletic Department.
If a particular course suddenly became very popular, the school would figure out a way to let more people take it. That concept should also apply to sporting events.
In defense of ND
Good recap N. I was thrilled to see ML start at point and JA did an okay job as a backup, but I still think JA got too many minutes. Completly agree about RN, every time he missed a layup i could hear Bill Walton saying “throw it down!!” And sadly you are spot on about JK. And free throw shooting was still confusingly pathetic.
I do have to disagree with you about ND. Sure he got abused by Morris down low, but so did everyone else. RN, JMM, JK, none of them could handle the combo of Morris and Aldrich and not many people in the country can, thats why Kansas is the number one team. To single out ND for bad interior defense gives a pass to the rest of the bigs who were equally, if not worse, guarding the post and defensive rebounding. Further, without ND’s shooting today (5-13, 3-8), this game is a 25 point loss as this team is still trying to figure out how to be assertive offensively. TH has tons of potential and will get there, but you have to have a players on the court who arent scared to shoot and that is what ND provides for this team right now.
by bruinponcho on Dec 6, 2009 5:17 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I have no issue with ND
He was working on D, just wasn’t big enough to get anything done. He was abused, but if he has to check a guy that much stronger than him, abused is his only option. He was tougher than I’ve seen him going for boards and has been a very good rebounder this year. Stops are nice, but mean nothing if you can’t reel in the board and he’s doing that. With our limited size now, we need anyone who can rebound and he’s doing it.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 6, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
It really came down to ND and the rest of the team just not being as physically strong as the KU bigs. I thought ND did as good of job as could be expected, he just simply doesn’t have the body to compete with those guys.
Fair points
I still want to see the young guys get more mins (Lane especially, Moser didn’t even get on the court). I rather have their athleticism right now on the court and have them develop. Will have to think this through a bit more because you guys have solid points. That was only the 3rd game I have seen this season.
I can't believe I'm saying this
but I want ND out there for his rebounding. If he stops rebounding or one of our freshman can come in and do a better job then ND can take a spot on the bench. Until then, we need him. Stops mean nothing if you give up the offensive board. Hopefully ND keeps up his board work because IMO, that’s what is keeping him on the floor.
One thing I think that CBH is waiting for is Pac-10 play though. ND was throwing up bricks last year until the Pac-10 season started so he could just be a slow starter that will pick it up around New Year’s and be a major offensive threat. We’ll see…
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 6, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
+!
At one point toward the end of the game he was our leading rebounder.
If you pull him because he can’t score — you’d have to pull most of the team.
Our shots are not falling and we continue to miss inside baskets that should be gimmes.
This will all improve.
sjh
He finished tied with RN as the leading rebounder
Not sure if the “pull most of the team” line was meant as a joke, but I literally laughed out loud on that. :)
I don't know man...
He doesn’t box out at all. A lot of those boards were pretty lucky. Keefe at least knows how to box out and does it most of the time (although he didn’t do a great job today).
Actual rebounds vs. rebounds created are a lot different. Boxing out is purely a function of awareness/effort and Dragovic just doesn’t do it. He is making a better effort playing defense on the ball, but his lack of defensive awareness is appalling. He also isn’t secure with the ball at all on offense. He was responsible for giving up a lot of points today.
The reason he’s on the court is cause he can shoot the ball and until they find someone else besides Roll and Lee who can score, they need him despite his shortcomings. I have always been a fan of his potential, but he really needs to start using his head out there. If he starts playing smart basketball, boxes out, and plays under control on offense, it will make a huge difference for this team. He is really capable of being a good weapon. I’m not too optimistic though.
A few notes
Looking around for poncho’s in-depth breakdown, which I look forward to and always substantially agree with. Lots of good notes and comments all the way down, but I thought I’d start with poncho’s quick note here. I agree about ND—he had his own defensive breakdowns, but he was getting some rebounds and used his length and he even hit a couple of shots as things went on, showing how he can be effective. JK, on the other hand, was just used, seemingly every second he was on the floor. It’s kind of sad.
Still, a lot of their minutes, including ND’s, should be going to other guys. I’m not sure that BL would have been any more effective than JK, but it would have been nice to find out, especially in the wake of the departure of DG. JMM’s first minutes were hard to take, but they were a necessary step forward and he did settle down a bit. He’ll make some progress as the season goes on, and with DG gone it should be an interesting switch. Stover looks to be gone, redshirting, which is probably the right thing.
The funny thing is how whenever the pass or the ball is below JMM’s waist it’s as good as gone, while any time RN is around the ball mixing it up inside he always seems to be the guy who comes up with it. It was fun to watch RN use his football training and toughness against Aldridge. He missed a bunch of point blank looks, but he just kept battling and making plays until he got poked in the eye. It will be interesting to compare RN to LRMM and other past Bruins. He’s a playmaker like LRMM, but he seems to be a hungrier scorer. Should be fun to watch, especially with Honeycutt making a limited but promising debut.
The one thing I haven’t seen mentioned, skimming, is the fact that apparently JA didn’t start because of an academic problem. And CBH got him onto the floor about as quickly as he could. If I recall correctly, the Bruins were down 7-4, with RN getting both of those hoops, and then RN went to the bench, where he wandered around outside of the huddle for awhile. Thus there’s a good chance that CBH would have started JA-ML-MR-ND-JK if it weren’t for JA missing the equivalent of an academic free throw of some kind. This concerns me. But RN outplayed JK so completely that he’ll presumably stay in the starting lineup (if his eye is okay). I agree completely with bp, however, that JA still got too many minutes, and the ML-MR-RN starting lineup we saw may be fool’s gold.
My thoughts
Just got back from the game and I feel a little hopeful and a little dissapointed. The postive spin is that we certainly showed improvement. I thought our defense really improved, but is still not close to being what it needs to be. I dont know if it was Gordon leaving or the week of practice, but this team seems to have come togethr and is playing with some passion and pride. Nobody shows that passion more than Reeves. He plays much bigger than he actually is and fights for every last rebound. I am officially sold on him. I also thought Honeycutt did some good things. He is very raw on offense, but I thought defensively he showed some skill and was very impressive on the boards.
It will be interesting to see what CBH does with the line-up. I was surprised to see that JA was not starting. I thought it was a great idea to try to bring in more size. I think we will play better with ML running the point with Roll in the backcourt. I would also love to see Honeycutt start at that 3 spot because I think with each minute he plays, he is going to get so much better. Reeves of course needs to start and we know Drago will get the other spot.
Keefe’s roll needs to be limited to a reliever and his limits need to be very limited. That brings me to Bobo. I was not hot on Bobo going into this game and the way he played in the beginning, I was hoping he was going to get pulled quickly. But, I thought he really turned it around. He has a long way to go, but his size should be utilized and I think he will play a major role this year.
Pauley was pretty loud today, but mostly because at least half of the seats were occupied by Kansas fans. Its sad to feel outnumbered at home. The students didnt bring it today, but what else is new.
Kansas fans
I heard cheers on the telecast when Kansas scored. Sounded like there were tons of KU fans. Ugh!
PACKED with Kansas fans
One other thing about the crowd that bugged me was all the UCLA fans letting Kansas fans make all the noise. Even when it was a close game, Kansas fans were chanting loudly during timeouts and when the Den or small pockets of fans tried to start chants to drown them out, the rest of the crowd sat on their hand. Not even an attempt to protect our house.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 6, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Better cheerleaders?!?!?!?!?
They are the best part about this program.
The crowd shouldn’t need someone to tell them “to get into a game.” We need better old alumni season ticketholders who, in the off chance they actually show up to their seats, feel that the only appropriate time to make any noise is when they go to the bathroom.
Agreed
Cheerleaders are certainly not the problem. We need alumni that care; that wear ucla shirts instead of polo shirts and that feel guilty if they are not screaming. It starts with the students though and the showing thus far has been weak.
When the game was winding down...
My 13-year old son said, “At least we have the best cheerleaders. They should include the cheerleaders in the ranking system. We would be top 5 for sure.” From the 5 degree tundra in Idaho, I have to agree with him. I was proud of those boys today. Not big on moral victories either, but I think this group will battle for the rest of the season.
They turned Pauley into a home game the last few minutes
Hearing the “Rock, Chalk, Jayhawk” chant booming through Pauley was rough.
by insomniacslounge on Dec 6, 2009 5:56 PM PST up reply actions
tho interestingly, Coach Howland just tweeted
The atmosphere and the support from the fans in Pauley really gave our team a lift. Stay with us as we will keep improving.
by insomniacslounge on Dec 6, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions
There Is No End
to my level of hatred for that ignorant train song. It is so absolutely stupid, pointless and nonsensical. What do annoying trains have to do with an imaginary cartoon bird?
Love My Bruins
Week of practice definitely helped
The schedule has definetely not been kind to this team. The injuries in the preseason hurt CBH’s ability to have meaningful practices and then once the season started, it was pretty much game after game with very little practice time. The team today looked much more like a CBH team than they did in the previous games and I think after having another week of practice this week, they will come out even stronger next week in Anaheim. I said it at the start and I will keep saying it, we are going to have some bumps, but this team will be good by the end of the season.
I forgot to mention
that Jerry Buss, Mitch Kupchack, Mike Dunleavy and Pat Riley were there seating near the students. Pretty cool.
I don't believe at this stage, Buss & company
was there scouting our seniors. Dragovich does what he can. Sometimes he gets it done whereas other times, you just wonder.
Michael Roll plays with his heart. That’s true. Other than that, he just isn’t a 1st round draft choice for any team.
Somebody else said Keefe’s time in Westwood is basically wasted. I agreed too. He appears more like a Division II player. Warts and all, he simply showed little or no progress at all this past four years.
and Cuba Gooding Jr, too…if that still counts as a celeb sighting…..oh, and Coach Neuheisel was there for a little while.
by insomniacslounge on Dec 6, 2009 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
except they were certainly there to see Kansas
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Dec 6, 2009 6:34 PM PST up reply actions
Good Summary but a bit too focused on the negative.
Maybe I’m just not knowledgable enough to see the intricacies, but what I saw was a pretty good team effort with lots of heart. Much more than I saw in any of the previous six games and against the #1 team in the nation (though I wouldn’t put them in that spot). All you say about JK is right on. Sitting him down won’t destroy the morale of the other two seniors. Roll will be hot and cold but still sink around 12-20 ppg and I see him playing strong D now. The young guys need more and more time and I’m sure they’ll get it. As for Bobo — someone during the game made the claim (claimed it was supported) that he was transfering this week. Any word on that? I’m doubting it from his demeanor today.
Roll played with heart and tenacity
He sort of gets lost in the call to bench the seniors in favor of playing young.
MR is the best and steadiest of the seniors in all aspects of play.
And, he does not get many breaks.
Like everyone on this team, he’s not scoring a lot. But, more than anyone he’s rimmed a bunch of 3’s.
MR is exactly what we thought he’d be and deserves praise.
sjh
He made a number of mistakes
He shouldn’t be making as a senior. I like MR a lot. Have given him props. However, he didn’t have a good all around game today. We will have to agree to disagree here.
What mistakes were those N?
I though MR had a very solid game today. Other than Henry lighting up everyone, MR did a solid job on defense and did a good job getting to the rim on offense. His 3s will begin to fall.
I’m just curious what you think he did wrong today?
?
Turnovers per espn: MR 2, ND 2, ML 2, RN 2, JMM 2, TH 2, JA 2, JK 1, BL 0.
I just don’t see how that supports MR having a bad game. In fact, with his 3 steals, MR was the only one who had more steals than turnovers (although JA had a suprising 5:2 assist to turnover ratio). You got to do better than that N.
I know MR missed a key free throw that could have prevented a loss and got burned against Butler, but he has been the most steady and consistent player for CBH.
The turnovers MR committed
They were sloppy and came in big moments IIRC. Don’t need that from our key senior. I will ask you this has MR made big shots since the Pitt game three years ago?
big shot
Fair point, but no more sloppy than JMM or RN getting stripped by putting the ball down or TH throwing the ball away. A turnover gives the ball to the other team regardless of who committed it or what year they are.
MR missed one of those seasons, so it is really two years. I cant recall any big shots of MR’s off the top of my head, but I don’t think he was ever in the position to take big shots with DC and JS around. Hopefully he will get a chance this year (ok, he may have already had one and blew it) and hit it.
Question for you: If we were down by one or two points with 5 seconds to go and have the ball, who would you want taking that shot on this team? I know I would want MR.
At this snap shot of time
Yeah, you have a point re. who should take the shot. Can’t think of anyone else besides MR (certainly not Dragovic. ML doesn’t have the consistency). I’d like to think TH will grow into that role in next few games but who knows. I guess I was expecting a little more out of MR this season.
Go to guy/Last shot
Whoever it is the team designs a play for has to be able to get their own shot and get to the rim and finish. That only leaves Malcolm Lee and/or Tyler Honeycutt. At worse Honeycutt and Lee can penetrate and kick to a shooter. That go-to-guy was missing last year too. I wouldn’t call Collison a go to guy by any stretch.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Yeah, okay
DC was not a "go to guy"? Are you serious? Do you realize how many times he bailed us out in last couple of years? Do you even remember how DC bailed us out when KL got injured in the Pac-10 championship game?
Sorry 11 Banners, the comment on DC is probably one of the dumbest ones I have read online in a while.
I just recall
There were several instances where DC had the ball with the clock expiring and would try to get to the rim and throw up a wild shot or force a jumper. He was the last player I wanted with the ball in a clutch situation last year. I like DC, he was very good for us, but I always thought Josh was under utilized in that role. Last year’s team really didn’t establish an indentity or a go to guy. Previous teams had KL, AA and JF. Just an opinion. To say it’s one of the dumbest you’ve heard is rude and way off base.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
No you are completely off base
When you write nonsense like DC not being a “go to guy.” If we didn’t have DC last year we probably wouldn’t even have a shot at winning the Pac-10. If we didn’t have DC the year before you could have kissed a Final-4 berth goodbye. He has carried our team so many times it’s not even funny for you to make a dumb comment like. It is one of the dumbest I have read here on BN.
All I recall
are made 3 pointers, layups, and ft’s following DC’s buzz-beating heroics. I also recall NUMEROUS post-game interviews with DC in which he cited some of his motivation coming from CBH saying to him “We really need you”. Thinking Shipp was under-utilized is one thing (although he was last season’s leading scorer so he definitely got the ball), but anything but love for DC I feel will be viewed as unacceptable. I really miss him.
To summarize
DC was Ben Howland’s “go to guy”
I want to see how many minutes he played.
I think it was quite a few — and probably too many.
The key is: who would you play instead of the person who is making mistakes? Said another way, who is making fewer mistakes?
I think he played a good game.
Now, if people want to play young instead of playing MR, to get experience, that’s OK with me, but we will get blown out in games we might just lose, and lose games we might win.
So, we do have to agree to disagree.
sjh
I rather have young guys in there
Building for next year. I don’t really care about this season at this point. We are not going to the Dance. We might not even make it to the NIT. I rather have the mins allocated to our freshmen class getting them ready for next year.
MR should get decent mins. However, he hasn’t really played all that well this season.
Wait, don't close the book on our team yet
From today’s game, I somehow got the impression that Howland & company is really starting from scratch, for some reason. It just seems like the sophomore class hasn’t really played much, and their skills are equally raw as the freshmen’s. How fast will they develop in the course of the season is anybody’s guess. But one thing’s for sure, this is Howland’s cup of tea because some of these players, from what little we have seen, do have the talents to become the kind of Howland players we were so used to watch, namely Nelson and Honeycutt.
Nelson will become the leader of our team before too long. He is scrappy,
ruggedly physical and yields to no one underneath the basket. Given time, his performance will become polished, and he will be a force to reckon with.
Honeycutt showed glimpses of his potentials today. He will be a good swing player down the road. I can see why he was so sought after.
These two basically will form the backbone to the team Howland & company eventually molds together. If and when that happens, of course we all wish it be sooner than later, they will do plenty of damages in the conference. Right now, let’s take it a game at a time and gauge their progress.
I hate the "play for next year" attitude
How do you tell your team you’re playing for next year? How do you ask your team to bust their ass for next year? How do you instill the right attitude in a program playing for next year? You need to do your absolute best each and every time to try and win the game. That’s worse than the “we have nothing to lose” attitude that some began taking halfway through the football season. You always, always, always play to win the game and do what’s best for the team to win that game.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 6, 2009 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
that's the great thing about sports
You Play…To Win…The Game!!
by insomniacslounge on Dec 6, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
As I said
It’s not going to mater to me much if we win 13 or 15 games this year. This is a lost season. At this point I rather see mins given to our freshmen than to players like Dragovic and Keefe, who have shown they are not going to give us anything more than what they have displayed to date. We need to go with our freshmen class like Howland did in his second year now, instead of wasting mins on Dragovic and Keefe.
Plus I don’t think playing someone like Dragovic now is best for this team to win in the long run.
Absolutely, do not ever put Keefe in
except garbage time. Dragovich ? well, use him judiciously.
Whatever way Howland juggles with his starting lineup when conference games begin, go with Nelson & Honeycutt as the nucleous. We won’t go wrong with these two.
Yep
Pretty much agree. Note I am not saying that we get rid of Dragovic’s mins all together. I just think he shouldn’t be getting 30 something mins per game and in needs to be in 15-17 mins range. I will have a better idea on the rotation probably after I see 3-4 more games.
Dragovic is vital...
Kansas had the athlete’s to play against us man to man, they wanted to pressure the ball and set a fast tempo. Most teams will choose to play zone against us. Without ND on the floor, the opposition will focus on Roll (perhaps a junk defense like a box and 1) and dare the Bruins to make a jumper. If UCLA had a viable low post presence Roll and Dragovic would be more effective. This team, as currently constituted, will play a bunch of low scoring, close games. We have to get points where we can.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
You know 11Banners
Dragovich plays the same way as that other big Czech center that transferred from Loyola Marymount during Harrick’s tenure. Hot and cold, inconsistent and erratic. Playing him long stretch of time feels like you go to a potluck party. You get what you get, and sometimes you get nothing. So for this year at least, stay with the two freshmen that have all the potentials and fit in the other pieces on a game by game basis, at least initially.
You know, when Larry Brown took over, didn’t he play the freshmen extensively too. I know there will be growing pains but look what happened towards the end of the season.
European players train differently and they just don’t fit too well in NCAA games, except Detlef Schremp.
OT
So Humanitarian did not take us? I saw something on ESPN that our only shot is the bowl game in Washington, DC. Hmmm. Anyone know what happened?
"The entire world that bleeds blue and gold ... they have been dying for this." - Coach Rick Neuheisel
You could just feel the momentum evaporate
When Reeves got poked in the eye and went out.
But there’s no real use concentrating on “what if”s. Hopefully our guys continue to build on the positive aspects of the game and keep battling. A loss is a loss and moral victories don’t count in the standings, but this team is basically starting from scratch, and you’ve gotta walk before you run.
Which is all anyone wanted going into the game.
The score and the loss don’t really mean much in the big picture. If it had been a blowout then yes, it would have. As is, a big big step in the right direction.
I remember why Howland
brought in Drago. It was when Lee Humphrey lit us up in the NC game and Howland was going after a shooter. I hope Howland doesn’t bring in many more Keefes and Dragovics-Rolls been pretty solid for us at times-because they’re just not very good athletes. Roll isn’t a great athlete, but plays to his strengths.
Also, I am shocked looking at the box score that both Dragovic and Roll led us in points, steals and rebounds today. Maybe they don’t look good at times, especially on defense, especially, but they produced today on offense. I am surprised, because they’re pretty bad on the dribble, but Howland sees something in them that we don’t I guess.
I saw a much more cohesive unit today and we hung with the #1 team in the country after losing our starting center and leading rebounder(probably, not certain of that). I heard the annuncers say we were going after a JC pg from Missouri. I really hope he turns out to be a serviceable guard. That’s all we need. We need team players, who aren’t individuals that just want to bolt to the NBA at first chance. We need winners.
In defense of playing for this year not next year
CBH should play the guys he thinks give us the best chance to win. Period. (IMHO, of course… )
My issues with the suggestion that we should give the youngsters minutes so that they can be ‘ready for next year’ (or whatever):
1) If the young players want to get more minutes, they can earn them in practice. If CBH puts guys in who are NOT the best guys week in and week out in practice, just to give them playing time, that undermines the competitiveness within the squad, disillusions the seniors and gives the youngsters a sense of entitlement. Last year a UCLA player told me that DC’s early season sluggishness was in part due to not being challenged in practice by JA et al, compared with going against RW the previous year in practice. Keeping practice and playing time competitive seems very important to CBH’s mentality and playing style, and so I think handing extra minutes to young players just because they are young is wrongheaded.
2) While I understand that giving people playing time might improve their performance, it is not at all clear to me that fielding a raw team, with young players getting significant playing time in disjointed defeats is better experience than fielding a more experienced team, with young players getting fewer minutes but in games that are competitive.
3) who knows what happens next year? Players getting extra experience this year may transfer, or get injured, or get into trouble for some reason. Meanwhile, this whole squad of players can grow together and compete in every game in a really weak Pac-10. Why give up on that? And why disrespect the guys who have played for you for three years by saying “I know it’s your senior season, but really we’re all about next year when you guys are gone. Sorry. But please continue to give it your all in practices and in limited playing time that you will now be given.”
I know that this year’s team is not at the level we have been spoiled with over the last 4 years, but talk of building for next year seems incredibly premature when we haven’t even started our conference schedule. I was heartened by what I saw from RN and TH tonight, and expect them to earn more playing time through their performances, and to push the seniors to up their own games. If our youngsters are talented and hard-working, there is no need to giftwrap the minutes as a Christmas present.
by britishbruin on Dec 6, 2009 6:10 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with everything in this comment
Except for spelling out your punctuation marks (“period”).
But other than that, very well said.
by insomniacslounge on Dec 6, 2009 6:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
with these sentiments wholeheartedly.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
Honeycutt needs to be in the starting lineup RIGHT NOW
He might not do a ton on offense at the outset, but he’s a solid defense/rebounding force. Get Keefe out of there and TH in, Ben, please. A lineup of ML, MR, TH, RN, and ND (at the 5; God help us, is that what it’s come to?), might not produce great results right away, but by February will be a force to be reckoned with. And as a lot of other people have said: it may hurt to bench the seniors in their final year with the team, but it’ll make our 2010-2011 team better. If you pair up a seasoned ML, TH, and RN with Josh Smith and one of Tyler Lamb/Trey Zeigler/Ray McCallum…I mean, we HAVE to be the Pac-10 favorites, don’t we?
I think we will see more of Honeycutt
He was still rusty today, but he played 19 minutes to Keefe’s 10. This year we should really have a much bigger rotation. Roll probably should get more rest with Moser getting more time too.
by SuperBruinMan on Dec 6, 2009 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
One observation re: Bobo
In the past, he’s been seen many times on the bench joking around while the team is getting their butt handed to them in a loss. But today, whenever he was on the bench, he was very focused on the action in front of him and was busy discussing plays and how to respond to various game situations. I definitely liked what I saw from him in that regard.
It’s amazing what a few minutes on the court will do for a guy. That being said, he’s still definitely a project. But just as definite is that we are going to need his size this season.
by insomniacslounge on Dec 6, 2009 6:23 PM PST reply actions
My take is a little different from some--I actually have some hope for the near term
I abhor the term "moral victory" but I respect progress and that’s what I saw against a truly great Kansas team. Maybe I am suffering from wishful pollyanish dreaming, but for the first time this season (I have only been to four games), I saw some hope for this year and down the road. And the Bruins kept fighting. I did not see anybody give up. I left Pauley for the first time this year without an insatiable desire to vomit.
And for me, Reeves was an animal. He kept us in the game with his hustle and fearless defense. And yes, I agree we had more difficulties when Reeves was out particularly after getting poked in the eye. And yes, Honeycutt will lead us back to the promise land, but the question is whether he can do it this year. He showed me real talent this afternoon. Last add on the game and the future—if this team was coached by the likes of Lavin, there would be no basis for hope. But this team is coached by Ben Howland! Just to write his name gives you hope! There is a lot of basketball to be played and we have the coach to get us back in the fight this year.
A word on injuries. Twice so far this year I have seen the UCLA team physician, Dr. John DiFiori, walk over to the bench in response to an injury. Now I have been going to games for jillions of years and I have never seen the team physician examine a player at the bench. I assume it has happened before but I never saw it until this year. I think it was in the Fullerton game and I think it was Malcolm Lee (I could be wrong as to the identity of the player) had a thigh cramp to end all thigh cramps and the trainers treated it but Dr DiFiori got up from his seat and walked over. Tonight when Reeves was hurt, Dr. DiFiori walked quickly over, gloved up, and did his magic. There was a second older guy there while Dr. Difoiri was treating Reeves. The response to the Malcolm Lee cramp was a leisurely stroll by Dr. DiFiori to the bench. This afternoon, Dr. DiFiori walked with some urgency and immediately gloved up within seconds of when my new favorite animal, Reeves, sat down. Does anybody know who the older guy was—looks like he may have been an eye guy, Dr. DiFiori is an orthopedic surgeon.
Also, several of the players are wearing a form of a knee brace. Any physical therapists, physicians, athletes, knee brace salespersons, or mothers of athletes out there who can give us some insight into the knee braces our players are wearing and their effect on mobility, jumping ability and the like?
Go Bruins!
Michael Roll
leads the team in minutes played, scoring, scoring average, 3-point %, FT %, assists(31, 4.4 per game), and is tied for 2nd in steals. He is 2nd in turnovers at 2.0 per game. He has been high-point man in three of our seven games, including the Kansas game, in which he scored 16 points. He leads the team in field goal attempts and 3-point shot attempts. He shoots .434 in field goals , .381 in 3-point shots and .700 in free throw shooting. I personally think he is doing quite well and deserves to start and play a lot of minutes. I do not think that he will be named All-America any time soon.
Dragovich should be benched
based on what I saw today. Don’t be fooled by all his points—that tends to happen when you take many more questionable shots than any other player instead of passing the ball for HPTs instead. There were many times in the game where he just had that look of not caring, while watching the man he was supposed to be guarding take his shot. It was the complete opposite of TH and RN—while those two looked like they were trying to actually win the game, Dragovich looked like he was looking forward to a smoke break.
Yes, far less PT for Drago
I don’t think his 3’s make up for the poor defense, the crappy shot selection, and turnovers. IMHO the minuses outweigh the plusses. You watch the opponents blow by him time after time after time and sure, if they miss their shot ND picks up some rebounds but they had no business getting past him so easily!
JA
Anderson still has a long way to go from what I saw today. There were 3 instances where there were loose balls at his feet and not once did he dive for the ball to gain possession. Each time he looks around trying to grab and pick, but he isn’t quick enough and each of those loose balls went to Kansas. He is constantly picking up his dribble just after passing halfcourt, searching for an open man and getting tied up. Not to mention missed layups and never attempting a shot from the outside to keep the D honest. Please sit this guy down and lessen those minutes. MR & ML should be the guards CBH depents on. Overall, it looked like there is some chemistry and better freethrow percentage will help this team improve. It was encouraging to see Honeycutt get his first real action. That’s a plus for the rest of the season! Go Bruins
Yeah
He is out of control on his layups and is getting burned on the defensive end. Is he even shooting 50% free throws? It was a step in the right direction starting Lee at the point today. But given how thin this team is in the backcourt, we will probably continue to see JA get major minutes.
by gradstudentbruin on Dec 6, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
To answer my own question
He is shooting 46% from the free throw line.
by gradstudentbruin on Dec 6, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
my 5
Personally I would like to see ML, MR, TH, RN, JM starting. I would like to test bobo and see what he has. I would protect him and MR some by mixing in zone. It’s a crazy trial for me, but I saw signs on offense if he can’t get experience. Initially he was an easy double, but in the 2nd half he showed more awareness actually passing out of a double to TH, who actually threw it back in on a repost and a nice bank. No offense, but ND will not do that once this season. I don’t care how many boards ND gets he lapses big time either boxing out or just not battling someone he should be at least battling for a board. Granted JM is hesitant to mix it up, but I think with time and other players banging him he will self-motivate more to not get beat. ND gets some rebounds because of his length on tip outs over the top, but other than that I am pretty sure he has never boxed out anyone.
The reality is that when Keefe and ND are in we have 2 players on the interior that can’t hold their spot. RN is by far the best player that can hold his spot and even move someone out with his lower body. He also has some surprising hops and a knack for the ball. He should be logging most of the interior minutes from here on out. At least bobo is not easy to move.. he does however need to be scolded to find a body and get it on someone when rebounding. TH actually is the only other guy who can go and get it on the glass and he should be starting soon. I can live with ND playing decent minutes, but I’d rather have him come in as a specialist to knock down some shots.
Until JA proves he can play in control and make a consistently positive impact I can’t see him getting more than 15 minutes. ML and MR should get the bulk of the minutes and JA should spell some rest for them and that is it. I would rather see Moser, TH getting minutes with both Roll and Lee on the court than have a smaller lineup with JA, MR, ML. I think we need to play with size and get anyone active in there who can get us extra chances with our inability to shoot the ball consistently.
In all I think we gave our best effort tonight. We seemed in general to have a good attitude out there. I don’t think there were nearly as many breakdowns and players were helping out more albeit sometimes late. Better than not at all. Our days of being able to contain man-to-man with little or no help off the dribble are gone right now. MR and JA can’t stay in front of any decent guards, so I can’t see how it’s possible to play 40 minutes of tough man to man defense without cheating our help to their aide and consequently leaving other big men open for passes or easy 2nd chances off misses.
I am probably the biggest cynic around, but I have not given up hope on this year yet. As far as the committee is concerned we are 0-1 without gordon and with honeycutt in a loss to the number 1 team in the country. Yes that is wishful thinking, but I do not think the cupboard is bare in this program. And I am certainly not convinced the pac 10 is littered with more than a couple programs that have more talent than us this season.
by Penny2i on Dec 6, 2009 7:41 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Good stuff Penny
You should put this up in a separate fanpost. You put a lot into this and I think it should stand out a little more.
overall a good effort
against a very good and deep team. As a near geezer alumnus, I can say that we did have loud cheers and made many attempts to drown out the loud Kansas fans. There was a huge contingent of Jayhawks, our fellow season ticket holders sold a lot of tickets. ND keeps disappearing on defense, while JK has lost his offense. Reeves was great, and TH has potential. MR was good overall, ML was ok but JA still struggles. Bobo had 4 TOs in a row which really killed our momentum in 1st half. He had some good play in the 2nd half. I do see us improving into PAc 10 play. Where was Moser? Lane had very few minutes. THat Rock Chalk chant is freaky.
The chant is freaky, but so awesome
I wish we had a chant that everyone, not just the students, got in to.
Formerly ryebreadraz
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Dec 6, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions
Been to Kansas lately Ryan?
If you have been to Kansas, that freaky Rock Chalk Chant, the kind of thing you hear in a cult that is about to be raided by the IRS or DEA, is entirely understandable.
Just kidding—its a wonderful place to watch tornados.
Cult
I have visions of these individuals sitting in a circle and wearing snuggies. Chanting that strange Rock Chalk chant. About to be raided by the IRS or the DEA. While watching tornadoes.
Oh UCLA you sweet bitch, you've BRUINed me for anything else.
Creepiest chant in sports
Sounds like a funeral dirge… I have no idea why it’s so popular among sports enthusiasts.
A few observations
Everyone knew Coach Howland would make some adjustments and the team would come out with a spirited effort. Very disappointed how the team carelessly turned the ball over, with little ball pressure. The Bruins giving up long rebounds was also a downer, most of those are result of lack of hustle and nothing else.
I’ve read a number of the posts and I have to say that Roll and Dragovic are neccessary for this team to score. Lee is too inconsistent from the perimeter, without MR or ND teams will just drop back into a zone. Outside of Honeycutt and Lee the Bruins don’t have another player that can get to the rim off the dribble.
Nelson was really aggressive on the glass, his energy was contagious and, though undersized, showed no fear. He’s going to have trouble finishing against bigger players, but he just gives the team the intagibles it needs.
Honeycutt was a tad rusty, but his court awareness, ability to create offense and athleticsm on the wings was a positive. By the Notre Dame game I look for TH to start at SF if he stays healthy. I’m not going to bask JK, but he’s simply not playing with confidence and his minutes need to be used to develop Moser and Lane.
Bobo will be fine he can score. His defense will never make anybody forget Mata-Real or Aboya, but he can be a threat down low, especially in the front court deprived Pac 10.
Overall, I liked the adjustments Howland made. Looking at the remaing preconference schedule – it looks like the Bruins can go into conference play at 6-6. From there who knows. The upside of playing these good teams, even in defeat, is the SOS is very strong and with a win over MSU and possible upset of ND the RPI will be good enough to get us on the bubble if the team goes 13-5 in conference. Keep your heads high Bruins fans.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Observations from the nose bleed seats (and watching the game when I got home)
I think the Bruins are making progress. We played them even except for a stretch in the first half with the turnovers. We held a pre-season all american center to a minor role despite losing our starting center this week. Yes we still need to improve on free throws and turnovers. But we made real progress.
MR absolutely should start. He was the only one able to consistently drive to the basket. If anything, I would suggest that he get more minutes on the bench in order to get more rest. He had 2 ugly TO in the game…but got his act together. Just wish he were shooting better.
RN is a Ben-Ball Warrior. Nothing more needs to be said.
ML is improving with every game. He can not carry the team because when he does his play deteriorates. But he will improve this year.
One thing I would really like to see changed: a rotation that had ND and Bobo playing at the same time. I think many of ND’s defensive failings were while Bobo was in. These 2 together offer too many openings.
Be careful what you ask for about JK….he may need to play center this year given RN injuries and Bobo’s “project” status.
To me the most important thing right now is to get better and smarter. Fewer turnovers. Make the free throws. Continue to tighten the defense. Until ND and MR get back into the groove we are going to stuggle in offense. But we can still win a number of games. And we need to improve with each game.
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 7, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions
and...
I don’t think Kansas played particularly well. I’m not disappointed in the loss, don’t receive any satisfaction from not getting blow out, but I can see the areas that were tightened against Kansas. I disagree about using Keefe at center, he just isn’t physical enough to keep the opposition off the glass and he offers zero threat in the paint. One thing Bobo does give the team is length and the ability to score off a set play. Bobo also is a player the opposition must respect enough to double, opening up the three point area on kick outs.
Keefe is a respected member of the team and a senior, so he deserves to have a role – he does do some nice things at times on the court. I would just want him to be more assertive when given the opportunity to score. Keefe was such a fluid player in high school. To see him play tenative and robotic the past few seasons is a big disappointment.
I liked the energy the team played with on Sunday. If they tighten up the ball handling and make a higher percentage of their FG attempts they’ll be fine. I do think, eventually, the best Bruin lineup will be: Lee PG, Roll SG, Honeycutt SF, Dragovic PF, Nelson C. Morgan, Keefe and Anderson off the pine – Lane and Moser getting some minutes too. BTW Nelson hasn’t showed it yet, but he has a little face up game (10-12 feet) that he can use to draw the opposing center out to free up the lane.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
Agree with your 5 11 Banners
I think you are right about the best 5 in an eventual starting lineup later this year. I wonder about whether Lane and Moser should not be getting more time early.
I was not advocating JF at center…just pointing out that RN will take a beating from bigger centers and we may need him to fill in. We were very close to needing it Sunday.
Bobo may turn out to be the most important player to step up this year now. IF he can
by Bruin Dad and Grad on Dec 7, 2009 2:28 PM PST reply actions
Bobo
I really think Bobo can be a factor moving foward. The Bruins face Jarvis Varnado on Saturday. Varnado basically just patrols the paint, and MSU zones the perimeter. Without a low post player that MSU has to account for, the Bruins will play into their hands. MSU’s guards are very good, they don’t apply much ball pressure, but offensively they are adept at breaking down defenses and getting the ball to the open shooters. They had some early season losses, but are finding their rythym – kind of in the same boat as UCLA. This is a big game for both teams.
Life is what happens when you're busy making plans.
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