Seth Davis Addendum
I was reading Seth Davis's mailbag today when some familar language appeared in a question:
No doubt UCLA isn't the top-10 team some claimed they were, but you went way overboard this week with your UCLA/Arizona comparison. Here are some things to keep in mind. UCLA dismantled Arizona 83-60 a few weeks ago. Arizona is 2-6 on the road, with the only wins coming against the Oregon schools. UCLA is ahead of Arizona in the Pac-10 standings. In the last three weeks, UCLA has outscored its opponents, including two bubble teams (USC, Notre Dame) and an NCAA tourney lock (Cal) by an average of 12 points, even if you include the two losses this past weekend.
-- Ryan Rosenblatt, Los Angeles
It sounded familiar because I wrote every word beginning with "UCLA dismantled ..." here, but it was surprising because I'm not Ryan Rosenblatt. So, to Ryan, whoever you are, I know that it's easy to cut and paste someone's words and submit them to si.com as if they were your own words, but just because it's easy to do doesn't make it the right thing to do. Next time, I would appreciate it if you would please use your own words to convey useful information such as this to others. Thank you.
Go Bruins!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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20 comments
Comments
That was me who e-mailed Davis
I wanted to point out the great facts you brought up to Davis. I never thought he’d actually post it because as you see, I never asked a question. In my e-mail that Davis should check out BN, where that info came from. I’m sorry for not including an annotated bibliography in my e-mail.
BruinsRule, this is a community. We’re not posting because we want credit or because we’re presenting some breakthrough research. Information and statistics from BN has been posted all over the place before (especially during the KD era) and it’s never been an issue. The key here is the facts are getting out and the team is being defended. After all, isn’t that what you wanted when you made your post?
Your post was terrific and brought some great stats to the table. You compiled the stats and did a beautiful job, but in all honesty, I think you’re taking yourself way too seriously here. The facts are out and that’s what’s most important. I’m sorry if this upset you, but I’m not going to apologize for doing it.
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Feb 19, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply actions 5 recs
Don't apologize
Bruinsrule, rye did this for the greater good.
If this bothers you, send this information yourself next time and tell us you already did.
And to anyone else reading this, feel free to use my stats in e-mailing any traditional media outlet.
by gilbert on Feb 19, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Quick question...
Does anyone else see this post highlighted in green with an asterisk? What exactly does that mean?
by bruinbunz on Feb 19, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he knew it was Rye
he wouldn’t have minded! BruinsRule probably thought it was one of those trolls who does a fly-by over here.
In any case, no worries. Imitation is the best form of flattery, right?
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on Feb 19, 2009 2:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Rye
First, I put a lot of thought and time into what I wrote (and clearly I am irritated by what Davis said), so I didn’t appreciate reading my words attributed to someone else. I figured it was a troll.
Second, I disagree with your “community exception” to borrowing someone else’s words and treating them as your own. In my opinion, being a part of the community doesn’t give us communal ownership of all the words that are posted here.
That being said, you’ve earned my respect time and time again with all of the valuable insight you have added to this site over the past few years. I show my respect by editing my post to remove the inflammatory language that was intended for a troll. I don’t want an apology from you but would appreciate your respect for my opinion on sharing of and respect for ideas by at least using some of your own words next time. That’s all.
Finally, I will admit that seeing my words attributed to you is not the only reason that I am cranky about this. I am cranky and irritable because we haven’t won in 12 days. Also, I sent Davis a few emails about this, including one with a link to the post on BN. I was begging for him to respond to me. And after all that effort, his response to your query was wholly unsatisfactory and irritated me even further. He wrote on Tuesday “there is no logic—none—[to ranking UCLA ahead of Arizona.]” But his response paid no mention to that ridiculous statement. He asssumed we are mad that he voted AZ ahead of UCLA. I couldn’t care less about how he votes; I can see the logic for him voting AZ ahead of us. I disagree with him, but I can see it. My beef was the pompous arrogance with which he decided to call out all voters other than himself as being governed by principles of illogic and stupidity, as if Seth Davis is the arbiter of all that is correct or incorrect. (Probably not the only Duke grad to think so highly of himself.) As if anyone thinking otherwise is a moron. He’s being a bully, plain and simple. I don’t like bullies. I don’t like people who are intellectually dishonest with themselves to the point that they would call out people who voted for UCLA ahead of Arizona after a 12-point loss as being idiots even as he ranked Villanova below Marquette in the week following an 18-point Villanova thumping of that Marquette team.
Damn it, there I go again. I’m going to close my browser now and not look at the Internet until the game is over. I don’t care about rankings. I don’t care about rankings. I don’t care about rankings. I don’t care about rankings.
Go Bruins!
by BruinsRule on Feb 19, 2009 3:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
At the end of the day, a point just needed to be made and your research did that. Now it’s time to get ourselves a W. Hopefully our guys give it everything they have tonight and hopefully I won’t have a voice afterwards.
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Feb 19, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we agree --
that when we spread the words of our Bruin Brothers and Sisters we simply say something like “… here is part of a post on BN that makes a good point” or something like that? I think it very important to share some of the great writing here with the world while not upsetting the good people who write it. Seems simple enough — some short statement of attribution to the site.
Like many here, I spend a lot of time on some of my posts, most are written for a purpose, and many to as large an audience as possible. I think Rye did us a service but I fully understand Rule’s feelings. I think the issue presents a false dichotomy because we can satisfy both the need for dissemination and attribution.
What do others think?
sjh
by Class of 66 on Feb 19, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that in taking someone else's exact words, it's only proper to cite
but I can also see where the need to get the message across might preclude “proper” citation.
Rye did say that he mentioned in his email that the info came from BN. Looks like Davis edited the email down for space/content (extremely common).
I’m glad that the info is out there for the greater public at the end of the day which, I’m sure, was Rule’s ultimate goal.
by impaulv on Feb 19, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In his email to Seth
Rye specifically made sure to urge him to check out BN where he got his info. What were Rye’s options?
- blockquoting BR’s post? (not practicable)
- hyperlink to BR’s post? (Again Rye pointed Seth to BN post)
Rye did everything right and he immediately owned up to the fact that it was him who wrote the question. All he did was advance an argument on behalf of the entire BN. He owes no one any apology.
by Nestor on Feb 19, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've no beef with Rye at all
he and we cannot control how an editor chooses to use stuff we send up.
I want my stuff sent around. I think we should send it with attribution but not be upset if that part of it is deleted.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Feb 19, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Davis is an idiot
He said, there is no logic—none—[to ranking UCLA ahead of Arizona.]" (via BruinsRule)
That is like saying there is no logic to thinking heads could come up on a coin toss because tails came up on the last toss.
by bornagainbruin on Feb 20, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Sure
all of you are noticing that we are very edgy these days, and the significant spike in snarky trollers increased, of course, when we suffered two losses next week. Sometimes, I think they bring out the best in me, but other times, they definitely bring out the worst. I think It’s easy to be temperamental if you’re us right now.
They were well-written words, maybe they just needed to be spread a little farther than our “home” here.
It’s all cool—we’re Bruins.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on Feb 19, 2009 4:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I Meant LAST week.
Sorry..Geez.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on Feb 19, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, fine, whatever.... what's for dessert?
;-)
Sorry, I’m a bit of a foodie.
M
"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008
by Meriones on Feb 19, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doubling Up
Lattice-top deep dish apricot pie is going to be coming out of the oven right before tip-off, and the caramel pecan brownies look to be coming out around halftime. (The pie has a special, top-secret crust.)
Where’s that recipe for that terrific Valentine’s Day dessert your wife made for you, by the way?
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on Feb 19, 2009 7:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its all Seth Davis's fault.
formerly known as popopapa
by 84 on Feb 19, 2009 6:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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