My Response To Jason King of Yahoo For His Attack On UCLA Freshmen

by bucknellbruin on Mar 2, 2009 4:26 AM PST Comment 40 comments

Bumped. GO BRUINS. -N

Here is my response to Jason's article on UCLA's freshmen (HT to blinkshot):

Jason, I just read your article on the winners and losers of the college basketball weekend, and I have a request for you: Please, PLEASE watch games before making rash judgments as you did in this article. Only the most uninformed or unrealistic fans expected the UCLA freshmen to come in and dominate like you suggest they should be doing. To begin with, there's the problem of simply getting into the game. UCLA starts 3 seniors that rarely, if ever, leave the game while it is still in doubt.

Jerime Anderson backs up Darren Collison, who is possibly the best point guard in the country. So it's absurd to expect Anderson to get enough meaningful minutes to make a contribution recognizable in the box score. He had a rough game, but does that take away from all the good he's done this year? For the most part, he's been a solid backup and hasn't given much away when Collison gets a break. Again, if you actually watched UCLA games, you would know this.

You're only statement about Drew Gordon is that he only averages 3.6 points per game. Well, he's also our most efficient rebounder and our most intense defender. (For stats on his rebounding efficiency, check out these stats posted on Bruins Nation a few days ago. If you need proof about his defense, again: just watch the games). And again, Gordon backs up Alfred Aboya, who's been an absolute rock in the middle this year and rarely gets taken out of the game. Gordon just hasn't had the minutes to make a huge impression in the box score.

As for J'Mison Morgan, only the most unformed fans and writers expected him to be the next Kevin Love from Day 1. Did I expect a little more at first? Sure, but Ben Howland knew perfectly well that he was out of shape and a project. You write that "Forward J’Mison Morgan has been labeled as lazy and unmotivated." Really? Who labeled him that? Because I've never seen a quote from anyone involved with the UCLA program who has called him "lazy" or "unmotivated". He's an extremely talented player who simply isn't ready to compete on this high of a level. Making up quotes with no source is poor journalism at it's finest. Plus you unfairly ripped a kid who has done absolutely nothing wrong except be not as good as some people thought he was.

As for Malcolm Lee, he's our best defensive guard right now. Ben Howland has said that he needs to find him more minutes...but where do they come from?? He's raw offensively (as everyone knew he would be) and Holiday is more polished in other areas. At SF, Shipp rarely leaves the game, and then there's Mike Roll, one of the best shooters in the country (over 50% on 3's...numbers don't lie).

Finally, I'm sure most people expected more from Holiday, myself included. But he's still our best passer and almost always the smartest player on the floor. And he certainly doesn't qualify as a "loser". As for your remark that he doesn't look like a top 5 pick, two words for you: Russell Westbrook. Westbrook was pedestrian last year and I bet you didn't think he was a top 5 pick either. Oops. NBA picks on potential, not on college statistics.

What I'm saying is that there is SO MUCH MORE to basketball than the box-score. The UCLA freshmen aren't lighting the world on fire, but honestly, did you expect them to? If you actually took a look at UCLA's roster it was obvious that Collison and Shipp would carry the scoring load, and Aboya has been way, way better than expected down low. The minutes just aren't there for the freshmen. So Jason, please watch the games and do some real research before labeling a group of 19 year olds as "losers". Thanks.

You can email your response to Jason by going here. Remember be respectful and polite. GO BRUINS.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

7 recs | Comment 40 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

My only disagreement ...

is that I think RW was quite a bit more than pedestrian last year. Even his freshman year he showed some flashes of brilliance, but he was inconsistent.

Other than that, your assessment of our freshmen BBWs is spot on. Great post!

by snorkeldorf on Mar 1, 2009 12:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

yeah i just meant in terms of stats

RW only averaged 12/4/4 last year. Not exactly all american numbers

obviously i know what impact RW had… and i think that JH is having a similar impact (albeit not as big of one) this year

by bucknellbruin on Mar 1, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Great post, Bucknell

I wish I had said this. Will Jason King respond? I have had about a 50% rate in getting responses to the people I’ve sent similar messages to, so we’ll see. Please let us know what, if anything, he says.

by Fox 71 on Mar 1, 2009 3:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

you should send that post to Jason.

by kyl57es on Mar 1, 2009 9:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

yeah i did

i actually sent it to him and then posted it here after

but thanks

by bucknellbruin on Mar 1, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A question for critics?

If our freshman class is a disappointment, who’s class is better? Granted, there are individual freshmen with better stats than any of the UCLA frosh but what team has the best freshman class?

by mizzou on Mar 2, 2009 7:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's always stats

Guys who write but never played the game think only of stats. The complete opposite is the NBA that judges potential, not stats. Anyhow, our class brings something a little different to the court. Jrue’s stats may not be great, but how many steals and passes has he made at key points of a game, and talk about lockdown defense. Gordon is raw, but he brings it every play and don’t try to intimidate him. Malcolm’s defense, with those long arms, is excellent.and soon he will be a scorer. Anderson will be an offensive force but may be better as a “2” with MLee. Bobo will come around since he is now playing with the big boys. Just because they don’t score 20 points a game doesn’t mean much in the Howland system, since it’s defensive toughness first and these guys got it.

by whittier71 on Mar 2, 2009 11:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Sorry guys...open your eyes

Let’s not keep making excuses for this set of freshman – they are average at best, at least for this year. First off, I have been a Bruin fan since I was a kid and have watched good and bad teams and players come and go…so I’m not some east coast analyst who’s watched a game or two this year. I think the point that JKing was trying to make was that this group aren’t so much losers…but more of a disappointment. These guys were highly touted (arguably the #1 recruiting class last year)and were expected to make a pretty big impact on the team this year and really haven’t. I agree that they don’t get many minutes, but when they do, it’s nothing spectacular…in fact when they all come in in garbage time with 10 minutes left, I’m still biting my nails hoping they don’t blow a huge lead. I think the scary part for me is that these guys are the future. Think next year…no collison, no aboya, no roll, no shipp…ugh! How can you possibly say Jrue Holiday isn’t a disappointment? In big games this year he looks like a “dear in headlights”…this is one of the top 5 recruits from last year? Please…I see flashes of greatness, but he’s way too timid at key times. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Bruins(die-hard fan)…but I think you have a little bit of the Bruin blinders on…I do the same, we are always looking for the bright side, hoping they will gel in time for MMadness. Sorry to say, don’t get your hopes too high this year, because if you truly have been watching, what the Bruins are lacking is that “killer” instinct from the last 3 years (especially on D in crunch time). In every “BIG” game this year (aside from UW at home) they “fold” at the end…Michigan, Texas, ASU (twice), UofA, Washington, WSU at home!
So aside from an average year from J Holliday and a decent showing from D Gordon, I am not impressed with any of the freshman I have seen MLee, Janderson, Jmorgan all need lots of work. Sure it’s not all about stats but it is about results, and from what I’ve seen the future isn’t as bright as hoped. I thought these guys would come in, gel with the seniors and create a dominant and consistent team with all sorts of weapons! Instead I saw a good team whose ultra talented freshman were pretty inconsistent and pretty much non-existent (aside from J Hol).
I hope I’m wrong, as for now we’ll wait and see the progress.
Unfortunately I also wouldn’t have your expectations of getting to another Final 4 this year too high…at least based on what I’ve seen!!

by cia3737 on Mar 4, 2009 12:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Nice first post, cia

by Fox 71 on Mar 4, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Whose expectations?

If you had actually spent some time on this site, you would know that very few people here expect a Final Four run this year. Please.

Secondly, I for one am not disappointed in these freshmen, because the only freshman that I ever expected to come in and have a big impact was Kevin Love, a very special, once in a decade kind of player.

Thirdly, Howland’s system is a very difficult one to pick up for freshmen, and one of the big reasons Kevin Love was successful was because the team around him was more solid with Mbah A Moute and Lorenzo Mata-Real already very comfortable with the schemes, so far less pressure.

Finally, what’s disappointing is for a “fan” like you to come and complain about the freshmen, reinforcing Steve Lavinoma’s claims of the “demanding” UCLA fans. We have lost four incredible players, have a team with only 3 players who have significant playing experience and yet are in the top 20, not to mention that out of our 7 losses, 5 could have gone either way in the last minute. A little luck and some competent referees would have had us with only 2 losses and a top 3 team.

It’s sad really, guys like you just can’t enjoy watching a team grow and a coach doing an extraordinary job. It’s all about instant gratification. Well let me tell you, the future is extremely bright for us, if only you could just sit back and watch a great coach do his job.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Mar 4, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for the obvious reply...

True, I don’t “spend alot of time” on this site. I really just was commenting on bucknell’s response to mr king because I found it amusing. Maybe I should come on here more to enlighten some of you!
It’s so shocking to see all these “homer” posts coming from everyone stating the same exact thing.
And thank you for the “obvious” your not a real fan if you don’t look at all the positives take…c’mon, let’s be a little more imaginative! I’ve been rooting for UCLA since I was little watching the likes of Rocket Rod Foster and Kenny Fields…players I’m sure you’ve never heard of. My favorite teams are UCLA and anyone playing US(U)C! So please NEVER question my loyalty or love for the Bruins!!!

I will agree with you on a couple things:
First – yes, Howland’s system is tough to learn, especially for freshman who are used to being “the goto player” on just about every possession in HS…and his defensive schemes are I’m sure, ridiculous to master without experience.
Second – yes, I can be harsh on my team when I don’t see things going in the right direction and see and hear about all this “potential.” This is the crux of my argument…numerous times this year the Bruins would go on a roll and it looked like they were progressing..gelling…gaining momentum and then they would lose to a “good” team (after beating teams they were supposed to) and then all that momentum would be dashed. And during these road blocks, the freshman were the ones struggling/disappearing…where by now I had hoped the team would be hitting it’s stride (see big wins at home and then getting swept at AZ schools – see big win over UW and then lose to WSU at home).
Third – yes I agree that there’s hope for this season, they have been in just about every game until the end …although the refs blew the ASU game with that horrible charge call on Collison that would have given them the lead with 2mins left. The only blowout was UA.
Lastly – I LOVE our coach…I was so stoked when we got him!!!! Howland is a phenomenal coach and it’s just a matter of time until he brings a banner back to westwood!!! If not for his brilliant coaching things would be much worse!

So see, I do have a brighter side…my heart tells me we’re gonna be fine, but my gut tells me we could be in trouble (this year and next)…we also can live and die by the 3 which is dangerous in the tourney!

And please don’t tell me that you think Jrue is first round pick if he left after this year…I surely haven’t seen that. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good player and I love that he has a great attitude, is a great passer and is always giving 110%. But his game high in points is 20 against FIU…I think I could have scored 10 against FIU. I wish he was more aggressive and would have a breakout game against a good team!

Stay tuned for my “pudding” rebuttal to BG below – should be a good one! Don’t want her to be confused, because after reading her post, it’s apparent that she’s probably confused more often then she thinks!

by cia3737 on Mar 6, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So...

You’re here to “enlighten” us and you are actually trying to bait me, by sending up a “warning” about your upcoming “good” rebuttal.

Good grief.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 6, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You are avoiding the argument

which is whether or not Jrue has been disappointing. And that all has to do with expectations. Yours and mine were different.

Jrue is not going to have a “breakout game against a good team” (which to you apparently is only measured in points scored) simply because I just don’t think Howland wants to rely so much on a freshman, and JH will be running the plays that Howland calls and fulfilling his role on that team.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Mar 6, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This Is

a very confusing post to me.

I can, for instance, honestly and sincerely say, without any doubt whatsoever, that Jrue Holiday is no “disappointment.” He’s done everything that’s been asked of him, he’s grown as a player, he never quits, he never pouts, and he has the class, style and sportsmanship we’ve come to expect from Coach Howland’s players. He is so far from being a “loser,” it’s utterly ridiculous. (I don’t know what a “dear” in the headlights is, but this young man is no Bambi.)

I have absolutely loved watching Malcolm Lee develop his defensive identity, and Drew Gordan has been setting the standard in freshman toughness. Jerime Anderson has been the one to bring us back into a couple of games, and he’s a blast to watch on the floor. J’Mison Morgan has given us glimpses of exactly what kind of earth-shattering defender he is going to be, and the spirit of joy he brings to the floor is positively infectious. (Every great team needs that, in case you haven’t noticed.) There is not a “loser” in the bunch here.

Honestly, it is you and your “analysis” that is disappointing here. You apparently expected instant results, in the manner of instant pudding. You were probably screaming for Josh Shipp’s head last year, and trashing LRMAM the year before.

You are, henceforth, “Instant Pudding Guy.”

Since you are “not impressed” by these young athletes, I can only surmise that you are neither a real lover of the game of basketball, nor a true Bruin fan, but, rather, a lover of banners and trophies, and a “fan” of the bandwagon variety.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 4, 2009 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Very elegantly put, Bg

by Fox 71 on Mar 4, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank You, Fox

(That is a huge compliment, coming from you.)

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 5, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Another instance of instants

IPG, I like it. I might have known you’d tend toward dessert, but here’s a breakfast offering:

“Instant grits?”

“No self-respecting Southener would use instant grits.”

(from My Cousin Vinny)

by Bruinut on Mar 6, 2009 7:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Eloquent...yes...correct...NO!

So to clear up some of your confusion:
A “dear in headlights” means that someone is frozen, they panic and shut down, they disappear in crunch time, they contribute very little when under extreme pressure. Hope that helps – see ya learn something new everyday!
I’ve never called Jrue a “loser”…again I think mr king’s article was a “winner’s and loser’s” overall evaluation of teams, and not calling each and every freshman player on UCLA a “loser.” You’re taking it too literal. He was saying that UCLA B-ball was essentially the loser because it had 5 ultra high recruits come in and aside from Jrue (questionably) none were contributing anything substantial or impactful to the program this season. Can you say that that’s true? I can…nothing impactful or phenomenal that I’ve seen…please enlighten me if I’m wrong…and I’m not talking about a pass, dunk or ally-oop done in garbage time.
I will agree that some of the freshman have made some strides…M Lee’s D, I love Drew Gordon’s firey attitude and toughness and Jerime is fun to watch at times…although they all are prone to turnovers and look a little shaky (expected, they’re only freshman). Please don’t tell me that you think that Bobo Morgan flailing hooks and follow up rebounds at the end of the game impress you. Fun, sure…impressive, not really. I wouldn’t describe his D as earth shattering either…that’s classic!

So you are henceforth “earth shattering, over-hype, let’s get educated about basketball” girl!
Take off the rose(or in this case blue and gold) colored glasses sweetie!

Since you obviously can’t look at our team realistically, it might be time for you to actually learn a little more about the game.

And like I told tasser above, please don’t ever question my love for all things UCLA. I root for the field hockey team. I root for UCLA and anyone playing US(U)C!

You see, that’s what a true fan does…roots whole heartedly for their team, can admit that their team isn’t what we hoped for or that good sometimes, can still root for that team regardless, can crtiicize and praise when appropriate, doesn’t sugar coat their analysis, and always stays true to the goal of any team that you root for – WIN Championships! Yes, anything below excellence is a dissappoinment, especially for such a proud program! It’s ridiculous that we haven’t won a championship in almost 15 years. I was so proud of the Bruins the last 3 years because of the feat that they accomplished – 3 Final Fours in a row (and really would have won one if not for Florida). Was I happy? Sure. Was I also disappointed? Of course!
We don’t root for our teams to come in second, or fifth, or eighth.
Let me ask you this, how do you feel about the football program. You know in the 90’s UCLA beat ’SC 8 times in a row and that they were one win away from going to the National Championship? Is it fun to watch USC dominate the Pac-10 and the Bruins now…is there a bright side to watching them under achieve for all these years?

Look, It’s nice to be optomistic and positive, but take off the blinders sometimes and examine your team.
A bandwagon fan stops rooting for a team/jumps ship when they continue to fail at accomplishing that goal! I am still here…always have been, always will be!
If your expectation is to try your best…then start rooting for ’SC basketball!

Yes, I want a championship!
If you don’t have the same expectations then it is you who is truly not a fan!
Mr Pudding aka “The Realist”

by cia3737 on Mar 6, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BG doesn't need me to defend her

But your disgustingly patronizing tone prompts me to do the following:

This is a Deer.

These are the definitions of the word “dear”:
–adjective
1. beloved or loved: a dear friend.
2. (used in the salutation of a letter as an expression of affection or respect or as a conventional greeting): Dear Sir.
3. precious in one’s regard; cherished: our dearest possessions.
4. heartfelt; earnest: one’s dearest wish.
5. high-priced; expensive: The silk dress was too dear.
6. charging high prices: That shop is too dear for my budget.
7. excessive; high: a dear price to pay for one’s independence.
–noun
10. a person who is good, kind, or generous: You’re a dear to help me with the work.
11. a beloved one.
12. (sometimes initial capital letter) an affectionate or familiar term of address (sometimes offensive when used to a stranger, subordinate, etc.)
–adverb
13. dearly; fondly.
14. at a high price: That painting cost me dear.
–interjection
15. (used as an exclamation of surprise, distress, etc.): Oh dear, what a disappointment! Dear me! What’s all that noise?

You meant a “DEER in the headlights”. She was mocking your misspelling, but then you doubled down on your mistake and then hilariously added your own special brand of arrogance and ignorance. I guess you’re the one that learned something new today!

As for the rest: Meh. I’ll let the rest of the posters have it.

by Tydides on Mar 6, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly,

Was that the “good” rebuttal?

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 6, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That

is a great photo, by the way, Ty. Thanks.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 6, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Mr. Pudding,

I could write a lengthy response to each and every comment you’ve made here. I could even point out that my lack of disappointment in JH cannot be “incorrect,” by any definition of the word.

But that would take more time than I want to dovote to you, really, and I’ll just settle for explaining to you that the expression is "deer in the headlights,’ because deer have a tendancy to freeze, wide-eyed, in the path of an oncoming vehicle’s headlights. Hence, my Bambi reference, which really should have tipped you off, but you are one of those guys who just won’t pay attention long enough, or read carefully enough, to understand anything.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 6, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and By the Way,

(And this really should be obvious to you by now), I am decidedly not, nor will I ever be, your “sweetie.”

At this point, Mr. Pudding, I’m your Daddy.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 6, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahhh yes...the "he in haste" made a typo comeback!

Let’s all harp on that..got me…yes I didn’t realize I had put “dear” instead of “deer”…oh how I feel so dumb. touche.
Thanks daddy and ty for my english lesson.
Keep sugar coating the season.
Looking forward to Tyler Trapani ‘s “full throttle” cross over skills next year…and Malcolm Lee’s “death-defying” assist to turnover ratio…and Jerime Anderson’s “armageddon-esque” 6 points and 4 assists average, and Bobo Morgan’s “earth shattering” D and “rim rocking” dunks…and…ok, well you get the “meteoric” idea!
I wish for the same things as you Bgirl, I hope they come into their own next year!
Just not that impressed this year.
Hope they can still make run in the P10 and NCAA tourney’s!
Remember, we’re all on the same side here bro!

by cia3737 on Mar 6, 2009 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice Try

You should feel dumb. You patronized someone else and you didn’t even realize that you messed up. I’m not getting on you because you misplaced a letter in a word. I’m getting on you because of your attitude. I’m pointing out that in your feeble attempt to make someone else look dumb, explaining to them what a common phrase means, you ended up giving off the impression that you actually thought that “a beloved one in the headlights” was a legitimate metaphor. Like always, the coverup is worse than the crime. You might as well man up on this one and admit your mistake because you’re only digging the hole deeper.

The rest of it is an elaborate strawman. You think that you can set the expectations for “true” Bruin fans. You say this:

If your expectation is to try your best…then start rooting for ’SC basketball!

Yes, I want a championship!
If you don’t have the same expectations then it is you who is truly not a fan!

Well I don’t measure success that way. I set my expectations based on reality. I will guarantee you, however, that I am a fan. I’m a fan that measures success by the words of a far greater person than you:

Success is peace of mind which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best you are capable of becoming.

We are not on the same side. Your side is the side that legitimizes all the complaints that the Lizard of Westwood had and continues to air on national TV about our program and our fans. You’re the “this makes up for last year” guy. I can’t control who you root for (and thus I do not question your dedication as you seem to do to others), but I’ll be damned before I’m lumped in with the likes of you in terms of expectations.

by Tydides on Mar 6, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True...

I did patronize someone when I fully made a mistake…and yes, looking at her post, I’m the ass who missed her initial jab, thinking she didn’t know what a dear..err deer in headlights was. That wasn’t my whole argument about her confusion…but a dumb response by me nonetheless. I apologize BG.
As far as the other things you say, you’re definitely entitled to your own way of interpreting success.
I’m proud of my team every time they win, I just can look at the big picture and realize…sometimes we’re just not going to win them all! When they don’t I’m disappointed and analyze why.
I stay positive but don’t think my team is always the best…call it like I see it.
Apparently 26-9 is going to be good enough for you…I just wish for more.
1995 was a great year! Especially with the seniors and the recruiting class we had this year!

by cia3737 on Mar 6, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Pudding man, I suggest that your favorite condiments are ketchup and mustard

In my opinion, the evidence suggests that you are a trOJie trying to masquerade as a Bruin. (Obviously we all understand why you would want to do that.) You left quite a few clues which show your true colors, but before getting to those I’ll offer one piece of advice: You really need to you brush up on your rhetorical skills before you come back for more.

My first reason for suggesting that you have never seen the inside of a UCLA classroom: Just as no self-respecting Southerner would eat instant grits, no one with an education from UCLA would employ such poor reasoning or analytical skills. (I give you a pass on the typos, since I make them myself. I can’t help laughing at them, of course, because you’re trying so hard to act erudite and grown up, but you come of as quite the fool.)

The other bit of evidence to prove my point is your reaction to having your brains beat in. You really think you’re making killer arguments and skewering people with your wit and repartee. That is very typical of chronic trOJanism. In its classic form, which you demonstrate perfectly, a trOJie gets humiliated and doesn’t realize it. There are so so many examples of this. Look at Cheatie’s handling of the departure of Sanchez and his handling of the recruits who got away. He came off looking …, well, a lot loke you, cia. He thinks he’s celebrating his victory in the PR wars by eating a nice fudge brownie, but it’s really a meadow muffin.

I don’t have any problem with your coming back here as much as you want. (I’m more charitable than many of my brothers and sisters.) I fully understand why you would want to associate with your betters. But don’t try to get too involved in analysis and argument, because you just come out looking foolish.

So long. Make sure you watch the traffic on Figueroa on your way home.

by Fox 71 on Mar 6, 2009 8:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

You got me. I’m a big ‘SC fan who watches a ton of UCLA basketball. I must be to criticize anything about our Bruins….right?
I was merely commenting on bucknell’s wrong assertion about JKing’s article.
But then found this whole non-reality based community (who all seem to love each other) that can’t speak an ill word about their program…our teams the best, our teams the best! Wake up! Admit it was a good but not great season. Admit that the freshman weren’t all they were hyped to be…that’s why our Bruins were ranked 4th to start the season – because of the seniors and the top recruiting class! It hasn’t quite panned out.
Stop living in a dream world people!
Wish granted – you won’t hear from me again…

by cia3737 on Mar 6, 2009 8:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, you got me

I take it all back. That was a darn good summary of all the points you made. Except you still don’t get it. You can criticize people all you want. You will be called out, laughed at, accused of trOJie-ness and all that if your arguments aren’t supported. Yours weren’t, and you didn’t and still don’t perceive that. You didn’t and don’t address the points on which your pontifications were challenged, but rather just change the subject.

So I guess I don’t take it all back after all. I guess I won’t hear from you again, although you’ll probably be hanging out here a lot. Go ahead – I hereby give you the last word as you’re leaving.

by Fox 71 on Mar 6, 2009 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you...

But what don’t I get? Who am I criticizing and what argument am I missing…please tell me? Your right, I’m basically repeating my thoughts, as are your blog friends…no one is challenging me with facts.
All we all have is our opinions. Surely you can’t tell me that any stats or game examples support these freshman being extraordinary?
You can make fun of my spelling and my misunderstanding of the “dear/deer” comment by BG, but the people changing the subject are your pals. I’m arguing the same point…the freshman are not as impactful as expected…that’s it!
If I came off too condescending then I apologize.
Thanks again for the last word.

by cia3737 on Mar 6, 2009 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's a pretty common mistake

But here, there’s a fine line between expectations, predictions, and hopes. We all may have hoped this year’s group would play like world-beaters as freshmen. But we didn’t, and shouldn’t have, expected them to come in and seamlessly replace the talent we lost. We’ve seen numerous posts depicting the fact that even great classes still take a little time. There were a variety of predictions about the degree of success they might have as a group.

When you come in and say that the freshmen haven’t had the expected impact, well, that sounds dumb. To us, that sounds like you’re saying you thought they’d be great players right as they came in. They’re freshmen, and it isn’t realistic to say that they should be great players right now. That seems to be King’s assertion, that they should be great players and are somehow lacking. Hence the ridicule, of both you and him.

They probably haven’t played as well as our highest hopes. To some people, the freshmen haven’t played as well as they thought they would. But by no means have they played worse, over the whole season, than they should have played, as freshmen.

by jaffa on Mar 7, 2009 12:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You say you want to be challenged with facts

But you didn’t bring any yourself. This entire thread has been you imposing your expectations upon others. Your entire post becomes worthless if people don’t share your expectations, which is the fatal flaw of your premise. The question then becomes whose set of expectations are more reasonable, and THAT’S where you need facts. Now the bad news here (for you anyway) is that we’ve already had this discussion on this site. blinkshot did a great job detailing it here.

Those are the hard numbers. The recruiting rankings. The results that they have produced over time and all the correlations and conclusions contained within them. It shows that, essentially, you almost inevitably would have been disappointed with this class based on your expectations of instant impact. At that point, it isn’t their problem. It’s yours. Sorry to break it to you.

by Tydides on Mar 7, 2009 1:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In Simple Terms,

You are disappointed in the performance of our freshman this season.

We are not.

Your expectations for them were unrealistic in the first place, you bought into mass media hype and labels, and you expected to see some type of “phenomenal fab five freshman floor show” at every game. That same media, having set the mythical bar far too high in the first place, now has the unwitting audacity to call our team “losers,” based upon the absence of the afore-mentioned floor show. Bucknelbruin responded, appropriately, to that tripe. You decided to come here and—to use your word—“enlighten” us with your disappointment and fan credentials. It’s time for me to “learn a little bit more about the game.”

Our expectations were more realistic. We knew there would be inconsistencies. Most who were posting here before the season even started were cautionary about expecting too much, too soon. We appreciate the progress and the potential of these young players.

You responded to those who disagreed with you in the first place by trying to attck them, personally, in a most condescending, “fact-absent” fashion, making a complete fool of yourself at the speed of light.

That is the subject. Those are the facts.

Now, which side evidently knows more about the game?

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 7, 2009 3:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is not a pot-shot at cia

The qualitative difference between BG’s writing and cia’s writing is compelling evidence that cia has at best a justsc education, not a UCLA education. If my assumption is true, then he can’t really be expected to recognize that he is losing arguments or to understand any discourse trying to explain why he’s losing arguments.

Again, this is not a pot-shot at cia. All of us in the BN should thank (fill in the blank with the appropriate list) that we were lucky enough to get into UCLA. A bad break or two and we might have had to settle for a justsc education, and we might have ended up no better off than cia. We should take opportunities like this to try to help the less fortunate. I think I failed – I let my temper get a little involved. BG83’s responses were perfect. I hope they helped cia and those like him.

by Fox 71 on Mar 7, 2009 6:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

a couple problems with this...

first, you say that

“I agree that they don’t get many minutes, but when they do, it’s nothing spectacular”

as a former basketball player that’s both started and been a rarely used guy in a rotation, it’s pretty tough to get any sort of rhythm in your play when you don’t get consistent minutes. Not sure where your head is if you expect freshmen to come off the bench a couple times a game and play “spectacular” basketball. Playing for 3 minutes at a time twice a game is no way to be spectacular. When you play that little your job is to play steady basketball until the regular starters return – and maybe provide some added energy as well. And that’s exactly what the freshmen have done – especially Lee and Gordon.

And speaking of Lee, if you’re not impressed with his defensive intensity and potential, something’s wrong with you not just as a Bruin, but as a basketball fan in general. Every basketball fan should be able to appreciate hardnosed defense – especially when you’ve been watching (so you say, and I’m not debating that) Ben Ball for the last 5+ years.

You’re obviously entitled to your opinion, but I disagree pretty strongly with you here…and as tasser said, not sure who’s expectations you’re referring to. Sure when the yaer started, I hoped for another Final Four run. But then again, so did Oregon fans. Most of us here are aware that the Sweet 16/Elite 8 is a more than reasonable goal for this team

by bucknellbruin on Mar 4, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think alot of the expectations put on this frosh class

date back to a time when we didn’t know what the status of the seniors was going to be. Remember, we thought that in addition to losing the 3 underclassmen last year, that there was a good chance DC, PAA and even JS wouldn’t return. In that eventuality, the freshman would have played scads more minutes. By this point in the season, they would have been much more experienced, sure. But we wouldn’t be anywhere near where we are today without the contributions of the seniors. CBH has had the luxury of bringing the freshman (except JH) along gradually to learn the system. No reason to put undue pressure on them. Next year will be their trial by fire, and I’m looking for big leaps in progress. Of, course, we’ll have another frosh class to bring along.

by Give me a B... on Mar 4, 2009 9:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

that's a great point

about expectations re. the seniors…i don’t think any of us expected JS and AA (and even DC, to a point) to play as well as they have. They’ve virtually made it impossible for CBH to take them out of them game. Another good reason why the frosh aren’t getting the minutes they anticipated. It doesn’t have to do with their issues. It’s the great play of our senior leaders

good thought B

by bucknellbruin on Mar 5, 2009 6:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

cla

this is the reason you said commented here:

I was merely commenting on bucknell’s wrong assertion about JKing’s article.

What I wrote is called an opinion. I supported my opinion with facts, beyond simply reading a box score, something that neither you or Jason King did. Now, I’m perfectly willing to accept the fact that you disagree with me. If you are disappointed with how our freshmen have performed this year, then that’s fine. But you have absolutely no right to call me wrong. Again, if you disagree with me that’s fine, but state your case using facts and without being a jackass and you will be listened to. But please don’t tell us that we’re SUPPOSED to be disappointed, because as countless others (including yourself) have pointed out, it’s about individual expectations of the group. Everyone had different expectations about this season.

Personally, I didn’t expect much out of Lee, Morgon, or Anderson this year. I knew Jerime would have issues with playing time, and it is virtually impossible for a point guard – let alone a freshman – to get into a rhythm on 10 minutes or less a game. I knew Lee was raw and didn’t expect him to contribute much – he has actually exceeded my expectations of him with his slashing offensive game, and obviously his defense. Morgan was a work in progress from the minute he signed. CBH knew that. I knew that. All of the regulars here knew that…it’s not our fault that other fans (not saying you’re among them) assumed he was going to the next Kevin Love from Day 1.

I said all this in my note to Jason, but apparently what I said needs restating. I gave my OPINION about our freshmen, and while Jason is also entitled to his opinion about them, I clearly watch more Bruin basketball and have a better sense of what kind of players they are then he does. As for you, I can’t help your expectations. If you expected the second comings of Carmelo, KLove, and Derrick Rose in this class then I can’t help you. But we’re not trying to tell you that you’re wrong. We’re saying that you have no right to tell us that we’re wrong. We all had our own expectations coming into the season. I saw our lack of size, lack of experience off the bench, and lack of a go-to scorer or defender and pulled back my hopes. Do I want us to win a national title? Of course I do. Will I be disappointed if we don’t? Sure.

But I will not consider the SEASON as a disappointment. As for what we’ve done so far, 24-7 isn’t bad at all. Maybe a little below what I expected, but it’s not because of the freshmen. It’s because our team defense isn’t as good as I expected…and 4 of our starting 5 primarily responsible for that issue are upperclassmen. So no, I’m not disappointed with the freshmen class. They’ve done about what I expected of them. I can’t help what you expected, but you have no right to tell me how I should’ve expected these kids to perform.

And then there’s this assertion:

non-reality based community (who all seem to love each other)

Check out the game threads and postgame threads from this year. Check out the Arizona game in particular. We have no problems admitting when something needs to be fixed. What we DON’T tolerate is people coming in and trashing the team or our community without provocation. For example, saying that “Shipp needs to step up, he’s making bad decisions” is 100% different then saying, “What the f*** is Shipp doing…he is horrible. Get him out of there!” The first one is constructive criticism. The second one is being a jerk and trashing a kid that did nothing to deserve it. So he made a bad play? He’s 21. It happens. It’s fine to say he messed up, not ok to say how pathetic he is.

And our community all seems to “love each other”? It’s called respect. Respect is something that’s earned. I’ve been a part of this site for awhile, but nowhere near as long as Bruingirl83 or Tydides. They’ve provided countless meaningful comments and analysis to this site for as long as I’ve been here, and I’ve tried to do the same. Therefore, we have respect for each other’s opinions even if we disagree. You haven’t earned that respect. That’s why we don’t like it when you come in here for the first time and trash people who have spent time and gained the respect of everyone else in here.

by bucknellbruin on Mar 7, 2009 5:42 PM PST reply actions 1 recs

Very well said

Couldn’t have put it any better. I had to get rid of the post you referred to though since there were a number of “troll” buzzwords in there. I think it’s sad that on the internet there are actually two ways to win an argument:

1. To actually win it like in real life or
2. Successfully troll/derail a thread

It was becoming clear to me that he was going for option 2, and that’s just not going to stand around here.

by Tydides on Mar 7, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I missed what you deleted

Sort of like driving by a bad accident. You shouldn’t look, but secretly you want to look and generally you do.

The anonymity of the internet makes it easy to scream and yell and hold your breath until you turn blue or to argue by cursing and generally acting like a kid. I was confident from the content of the commentary that this guy had never attended UCLA. I assumed he was from justsc, but maybe he was just a junior high guy whose mommy let him play too long on the computer. (Then again it’s not that easy to differentiate a junior high education from a trOJan one.)

Ah, well, I’m almost sorry that episode is over. It took me back to the days of Bill and Ted.

by Fox 71 on Mar 7, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs