Floyd Can or Cannot Coach?

by ucla7477 on Mar 8, 2009 5:32 PM PDT Comment 29 comments

LA Times today quotes Hackett (pronounced "Hacker" in French) as liking USC's chances for winning the Pac-10 tourney because they beat everyone in the conference except UCLA. This can cut two ways. First, that SC is an overachiever who on a given night can beat anyone (and therefore is well-coached). Second, that SC is an underachiever who on a given night can lose to anyone (and therefore is poorly coached).

In deciding which of these choices best fits the situation, consider that SC started the season with three experienced starters (Gibson, Hackett, Lewis), which is more than UCLA had, brought in the #1 or 2 freshman in the country (DeRozan, comparable in ratings to Jrue Holliday), and was a media choice to contend for the conference title. Consider further that in a down year for the Pac-10, SC was one of the few schools not expected to have a significant drop off (lose questionably recruited Mayo, add questionably recruited DeRozan). Sprinkle in the fact that Oregon State won zero conference games last year and Oregon would barely win any this year (should be 4 sure wins to pencil in on day one). Then observe that SC had to win its last two games at home to crawl up to .500 (9-9) for the year. Highlights of course include ending Oregon State's 21-game conference losing streak, but perhaps more telling is stellar-motivator Floyd informing everyone before the Arizona trip that winning one game out of two would be huge and that losing both would be no big deal. Gee, I'm not even sure Lavin could have thought that one up.

Next year with "character players" Alex Stepheson and Renardo Sidney coming in, the opportunity to prove coaching skills will be entertaining, if nothing else. (Presumes Sidney actually takes the SAT and actually gets an SC-admissible score, thereby qualifying for course work with Senora Ross.)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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Let's not be too quick to judge, 7477

One way to look at a person’s ability as a coach is to look at his performance in an environment where everyone has basically the same chance, i.e., where there are admitted (rather than secret) payrolls and a cap which everyone share. In other words, look at how a particular coach did in the NBA.

Wait.

Never mind.

by Fox 71 on Mar 8, 2009 7:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

ZING

by Tydides on Mar 8, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great suggestion...

That would be Pete Carroll in the NFL, too!

by ucla7477 on Mar 8, 2009 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

USC didn't beat UW

by SuperBruinMan on Mar 8, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

You are correct, so...

Hackett is either practicing revisionist history or else is living in some alternative reality.

by ucla7477 on Mar 10, 2009 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strange logic

Why would anyone like a team’s chances if they haven’t beaten the conference champs from the past 2 seasons? Are they assuming all the other teams will suddenly suck in some grand conspiracy to get usc in the NCAA tourney? I’m liking their chances as well…. to be accepted in the NIT.

by UCLA4Life on Mar 9, 2009 12:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Who's Lavin?

Name doesn’t sound familiar.

Formerly UCLA Class of 86

by Class of 86 on Mar 9, 2009 7:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Remembering Lavin

It’s a lot like remembering the idiot who borrowed your ’57 T-bird convertible, then proceeded to crash it. And even after you get the car fixed, you still feel nauseous just remembering the guy.

by bornagainbruin on Mar 9, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right on the money.

by gookso0 on Mar 9, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I have to say is...

I hope Floyd stays at SUC for a very long time…

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Mar 9, 2009 8:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

As long as Floyd’s there, the Trojans can aspire to 3rd in the Pac-10 at best, and that’s if they somehow avoid NCAA sanctions.

by McNown to Farmer on Mar 9, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i understand

taking shots at sc when we can, but i don’t think floyd is a bad coach. light years behind coach howland, but i wouldn’t say a bad coach. and to say sc came in this year with more returning talent and experience than us is a flat out lie.

Across The Face

by rb bruin on Mar 9, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Respectfully Disagree

Floyd has done less with more talent than any other coach with comparable individuals on their teams. (I’m leaving Lavin out of this, for the moment.) He has a 81-48 overall record with USC. USC has lost 12 games every season for four years straight. Floyd has been blessed with some tremendous players, but he has never had a team that has played better as a team. IMHO, that is the benchmark of a real coach—his or her team is better as a whole than the sum of its individual players.

His teams are notorious for in-fighting, lack of discipline, and underperforming. That is a bad coach.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 9, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not more talent...

I didn’t say USC had more talent going in, since UCLA freshmen were expected to be a big help this year. But SC had more experience — three returning starters vs. UCLA two. How much experience did Aboya have? (some), Dragovich (very little), Keefe (little, injured half of last year), Roll (little, missed basically all of last year).

by ucla7477 on Mar 9, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i understood

you meant returning players. i said “returning talent” meaning to exclude the recruiting class and i still disagree. how much experience did aboya have? um, i think he just set a record for games played or started as a bruin. josh shipp is a 5th yr senior who has played significantly and was a returning starter. dc is dc, nuff said. and throw in keefe, roll, and drago (whose experience i think you dismiss a little too quickly) and i would say that we came in with more experience than sc.

Across The Face

by rb bruin on Mar 10, 2009 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I somewhat agree, somewhat disagree...

Agree on DC and Shipp. Disagree on AA2. He didn’t start last year, and though he showed promise, he got in foul trouble too often and didn’t manage a lot of minutes. So I consider him to have started the year significantly less experienced than DC/JS but more experienced than Drag, Keefe, and Roll.

by ucla7477 on Mar 10, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you focus too much on last yr

but either way here goes. aboya had played in over 100 games as a bruin before this season started. whether he started last year or not, that is significant experience. he played in every game last year and started 17 of them. keefe and drago played in 25 games each averaging roughly 10 min per game. granted, they weren’t starters but they were part of the regular rotation and for this reason i think you are making a mistake in dismissing their experience. rolla was averagibg 15 min per game last yr before he got hurt. and if yougo to the yr before you’d notice that roll played in every single game and was averaging 16 min per game. i think feel i’m beating a dead horse here or maybe going off on a tangent but you can see the numbers for yourself here
http://uclabruins.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/archive/ucla-m-baskbl-archive.html

Across The Face

by rb bruin on Mar 10, 2009 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Floyd is a good tactician

He’s shown that he can design a good strategy. His problems are in recruiting and keeping teams together. The last couple years they’ve had terrible depth, and there has often been fighting between players (though maybe that’s just Hackett).

I’d like to keep him at USC because he has shown that he can bring in some good players but can’t build a whole team.

by SuperBruinMan on Mar 9, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good take

Agree with the point re Floyd being a good tactician. He is just not a good leader of a program.

by Nestor on Mar 10, 2009 4:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not an expert...

What does he do that makes him a good tactician?

by ucla7477 on Mar 10, 2009 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

pretty much what SBM says

game planning, x’s and o’s. he is actually pretty good at this which is what i meant to express in my original post, but failed to specify. he sets up defenses to counter opponents’ strengths well and makes good adjustments to what teams are doing at halftime and stuff. but as SBM rightfully stated, his demeanor, leadership, and ability to control his players are sorely lacking. but i don’t know anyone in america willing and able to control the circus that is usc basketball

Across The Face

by rb bruin on Mar 10, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

That is very helpful. Of course since he can’t control himself very well (I assume he leads the conference coaches in technical fouls), it’s kinda hard to control his players. (They learn by his example.)
Lavin is willing to be circus ringmaster, but is not able. Majerus is able, but not willing. Maybe someone can come up with a good idea.

by ucla7477 on Mar 10, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Floyd has not accomplished what Bibby or Raveling did

and he has a brand new building to recruit to. They had the sports arena.

"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"

by silverlakebruin on Mar 11, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"SC-admissible score"

Per their own admissions page, that can be anything; there are no actual admissions standards—those could only get in the way of athletics. The only minimum scores he would need to be concerned with would be the NCAA and Pac-10 eligibility requirements.

by bru79 on Mar 9, 2009 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Wasn't '$C

Ranked in the top 20 pre-season? If they haven’t beaten UCLA all season and there is a chance they will play each other in the semis in the Pac-10 tournament, then what makes Mr. Hackett believe they will win that game? Tim Floyd does not “get it”. Let him keep recruiting players like Mayo, DeRozan, and Sidney and then have him wonder why he cannot get any continuity into his program.

by turs12 on Mar 9, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I got grown women wanna be in my life
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by Tydides on Mar 10, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs