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In Praise of Jrue

With the economy being where it is, I've had a lot of time to read about Bruin basketball. Over the past several weeks. I've read many a commentary on other Bruin fan sites and to a lesser extent this one, that have expressed grave disappointment in our top freshman player, Jrue Holiday. I could go to those other sites and express my contempt for a lot of those thoughts, but I frankly don't think they deserve to know any better. My friends on Bruins Nation, however, are always prone to reviewing and appreciating the facts, so I thought I would reconstitute my call to stop bashing Jrue into a post about why it's okay as a Bruin, and possibly even essential, to praise what he's done for us this year. To me, he has become akin to the girlfriend that you take for granted and break up with, only to realize how great she was when you try to find her replacement.

Star-divide

It probably started with unrealistic expectations. Kevin Love was the last HS player of the year before Jrue, so Jrue came with Love-like expectations. And he surely has not equaled Love's performance. Looking back, we shouldn't be too surprised. Kevin was a once in a generation type of player in a once in a generation freshman class. That's the wrong comparison to use.

I think that this comparison with Love is causing us to overlook some obvious and not-so-obvious contributions that Jrue has been making to the 2009 Bruin team. As Meriones said, he's sort of like a Swiss army knife. (Question for history majors: Why is it called a Swiss army knife when the Swiss have always been neutral?) When you peel back the banana, the facts show that Jrue is a valuable member of the team.

What has Jrue contributed? On the team, he ranks 3rd in rebounding, 2nd in steals, 2nd in assists, 1st! in blocked shots, and 5th in points.  He is 4th in the conference in assists to turnover ratio. Coaches (not Howland--he can't vote for his own players) thought enough of him to name him to the All Pac-10 freshman team.

Offensively, Jrue has not been a great scorer. He is the 5th scoring option in our offense in part because Shipp and Dragovic have been shooting the lights out and in pat because that part of his game is less developed than other parts. Being the 5th option comes with it fewer opportunities to score, and he has, indeed, scored less. He also is playing off the ball, and in an offense designed to have the point guard dominate the ball, he doesn't have it in his hands very often. But he has still been a very good player on offense because of his passing, rebounding, and low turnover rate. He also shoots at a pretty good percentage (though not as high as the other starters). All of this combined, gives him a 110.3 Offensive Rating according to Pomeroy's tempo-free stats. That rating is only good enough for 6th best on the 2009 Bruins (behind Roll, Collison, Aboya, Shipp and Dragovic). Or you could say, he is the 6th best offensive player on the 3rd best offense in the country--a team that is the best in the NCAA at shooting and in the top 10 in fewest turnovers.

How good is a 110.3 rating? Well it's 429th in the NCAA. If you consider that there are 343 teams in division I and about 8 players per team play enough minutes to get rated, he ranks well within the top 20% of all NCAA players offensively. But on such a good offense, not playing in a featured role, he is overshadowed or lost in the shadows. In fact, UCLA is the only team of the top 15 Pomeroy offenses that has 6 players in the top 500 in individual offensive rating (it would be surprising if we weren't the only team in all of division I with 6; as you go down the list, you find fewer and fewer players on each team that rate in the top 500). Only Pitt and UCLA have 5 players with a higher rating than Jrue's. In many of the top-15 offenses, Jrue's rating would place him in the top 3 on the team. If Jrue is good enough to be a top 3 player on a top 15 offense, we must conclude that Jrue is a very good offensive player.

I mentioned above that the comparison to Love was both unfavorable and unfair to JH. The more apt comparison would be to Westbrook. After all, he replaced RW in the line up at the 2 guard and has been asked to do similar things. Looking at him and remembering what I remember about RW, I would say that he sure doesn't seem like he's as good as RW was last year. So, I found it fascinating that RW's ORating last year was 109.6, which is close to but not as good as Holiday's 110.3. Holiday's rating is also higher than Shipp's rating was last year (110.2). So, if this were last year's offense, JH would be the #3 most effective offensive player on the team. We would probably be singing his praises and wondering why he can't play more minutes over Shipp or Westbrook. Instead, we're saying that he should be benched in favor of Lee, who's O Rating is 96.3 and commits 5.4 fouls per 40 minutes. Now, I really like what I see from Lee, and I think he should continue to be used in spurts and can't wait to see him develop over the next two years, but his offense is nowhere close to Jrue's at this point. His defense, though good, is not as polished, which helps to explain why he commits 70% more fouls but only manages 33% fewer steals (by rate).

Speaking of defense, it is clear that JH has not been the "stopper" that RW was, or for that matter AA.  He physically is not as versatile as RW was. But Jrue appears to be getting way more than his fair share of criticism for the team's poor defense, when the reality is that he is probably our 2nd most consistent defender, behind Aboya. (Note: Pac-10 coaches disagree, having named Collison to the All-Defense team.) Aboya is our only defensive rock (of the starters anyway). Jrue is most often assigned to the other team's #1 scorer, and some of those scorers have produced fairly well against Jrue. Others, like Calvin Haynes, have flailed against Jrue. Despite facing some top guys like Christopher (who performed lower than his averages against Jrue) and Harden (who overmatched JH and nearly everybody else in the league), Jrue hasn't surrendered any Pac-10 player of the week performances (unlike another guard on our team). It's also uncommon for Jrue to get beaten back door or to be lazy getting back on defense. He does things effortlessly, which belies the effort he puts into his defense. Although we don't have a great measurement for individual defense, his numbers do show that he does some defensive things well, namely rebounds, blocks and steals. We also must remember that he is a freshman. As much as we remember that AA and RW were stoppers, they really didn't excel at it until they were sophomores.

I hope that some of you will read this and agree with me that Jrue is a very good all-around player, a top-flight player on a top-flight offensive team and an important defender on a team that struggles to defend well. His contributions not only go unnoticed, but they are also punished because he is not as good as we wanted him to be. He's not as mature as Love, or as good, and that is an albatross we are making him bear. This is not his fault but ours. In comparison of his all around game to the sophomore RW, he holds up fairly well offensively and his failure to be the stopper RW was does not mean that Jrue has been a below-average defender or that he is not a better defender than Shipp and Dragovic or more consistent than Collison.

Those who think that the team will be better off next year without him are mistaken. He is already our best underclassman (on offense, by a wide margin) and when you factor in defensive contributions, he is probably our best non-senior. He will only get better with an offseason under the best coach in America, to the point that perhaps like his predecessors at the 2 guard, he could be a legitimate stopper on defense while excelling as a distributor-first point guard. If he goes pro, it will be a setback for a program that will be left with no back-up point guard and scarce backcourt depth. Should he return, we will once again compete for the Pac-10 title and could be a major threat in the post season. the difference between the two scenarios is staggering.

Whether or not you agree with me about my praise of Jrue's contributions, however, is less important to me than this: Jrue is a Bruin; he plays hard; he seems like a good kid; he supports his teammates; he accepts his role; he doesn't get into trouble; and he represents the Bruin community well. A Bruin who exemplifies so many of the qualities that we love to see in our Bruins does not deserve the fans' ire or scorn or good riddance. He deserves our support, our well wishes (if he does go pro) and our thanks for his effort to make the 2009 Bruins a great team (whether or not they get there).

On Thursday, I will be watching the team with great interest, and I will be watching and appreciating the little things that Jrue does, even the things that I struggle to notice. I will be hoping that Jrue and his teammates play their best basketball over the next 3 weekends to stay allive to play a 4th. Go Bruins!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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Good post

and great thoughts as usual Bruin Rule.

But here is the problem I am having. JH has put up some decent numbers. Yet here are his point totals from our 7 losses which arguably presented the two marquee OCC games, and pivotal conference games that ended up costing us the Pac-10 championship:

Michigan: 13
@ Texas: 3
@ASU: 2
@UW: 8
@ ASU: 0
@AZ: 6
WSU: 1

Except for Michigan game, those are some ugly numbers.

Even if we had gotten barely average performance from JH in those games offensively, we might have won 2-3 or those gams. Certainly TOTAL 3 point performance at home v. WSU and ASU stands out. He laid a ZERO v. ASU in Tempe.

We can evoke the comparisons to AA and RW. However, those kids didn’t come into Pauley with the hype of number 1 player in the country or the hype of "lottery pick" that gets mentioned wrt his name. I will not mention defensive performances v. Texas, ASU and WSU at Pauley.

I certainly admire JH for the way he has been selfless and conducted himself. He has been an exemplary student-athlete by all accounts. However, I do think it is fair to point out how he didn’t step up and made the minimum contribution in some huge games. Again I think the games against ASU and WSU really stand out.

I hope JH leaves UCLA on a high note whether it is this year or next. But all I am saying if he leaves this year, it will be hard for me to think of him the same way I think of JF, RW or KL.

by Nestor on Mar 9, 2009 4:01 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh another thing

If one wants to look up impact freshman, they might want to look up how Toby Bailey, J.R. Henderson, and Tyus Edney did in their freshmen season while giving proper deference to veteran upperclassmen.

by Nestor on Mar 9, 2009 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stats of "Impact Freshmen"

We don’t have efficiency stats from the 90s, but here are four lines. Who had the greatest impact of the 4?

PLYR MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
1 22.8 54.7 30.0 67.5 4.2 1.3 1.8 0.5 0.8 9.2
2 26.5 47.2 30.0 74.5 3.7 3.5 2.0 0.6 1.5 8.6
3 25.1 48.4 27.4 56.4 4.8 1.9 2.0 0.3 1.1 10.5
4 18.3 47.2 34.1 79.7 2.1 2.8 1.3 0.0 1.3 5.6

I think you could make an argument for any of them, but the 2nd and the 3rd line stand out to me because they played the most and are the leaders in more categories than the other two. #2 is tops in assists and steals. #3 is tops in points and rebounds, but didn’t shoot 3s or FTs well and had fewer assists than turnovers. #1 looks good, but the assists and turnovers are galling, and he’s also the lowest in # of steals. #4 was quite similar to #2 in fewer minutes, and if you extrapolate #4 to give him the same number of minutes as #2, you would have:

MIN FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG

26.5 47.2 30.0 74.5 3.7 3.5 2.0 0.6 1.5 8.6

26.5 47.2 34.1 79.7 3.0 4.1 1.9 0.0 1.9 8.1

Eerily close. Which would you prefer? Probably depends on what the team needs. In any event, the numbers of all 4 are close. It’s not like any of them was close to the leading player on his team. A reasonable person could side with any of the four, and I’d have no beef.

Feel free to guess who is who in that list. The point of this exercise is not to say that Toby or Tyus or Jrue was the best freshman. The point is, and the data support, that, statistically speaking, the players had a very similar impact as freshmen while playing in similar situations. I loved Tyus as a freshman, and mostly I remember how he announced his presence in his first game against Indiana. With Toby, I remember his explosions against UConn and Arkansas. We think of the championship so much that we probably think that Toby averaged 26 per game. I remember JR’s two FTs against Kentucky. Money.

By the numbers, Jrue has been every bit as impactful as those freshmen were, yet for whatever reason—the hype or the likelihood that he’s one and done—we do not appreciate what he is doing for us. We have to wait for the ending to Jrue’s freshman season to be written. At this point, however, I just want to watch him and enjoy him. Maybe he’ll have one of those Bailey moments before it’s all over. If so, our nostalgia for him might end up matching our nostalgia for these other great Bruins.

by BruinsRule on Mar 9, 2009 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tyus might have announced his presence against IU

but he made his impact felt in the very first game that mattered in the 91-92 basketball season: @ Arizona. JH hasn’t come close this year to make his impact felt that way.

by Nestor on Mar 10, 2009 4:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with this

That’s barely 5 points per game in our losses, 3.5 under his average. It’s not good. But everyone has bad games. Freshmen especially. Who could forget Freshman AA’s 1-6 showing in a late-season loss at Stanford, or his 1-4 in the NCAA loss to Texas Tech? Or that he allowed Salim Stoudamire to score 32, including a last second 3 to lose at Arizona? Fans, that’s who, because he did so much for us over the next two years. We forgot that as a freshman, AA was mostly good but sometimes out of his league.

Your other point is exactly my point. We criticize him because of the hype. How fair is that to Jrue? He didn’t hype himself. He just plays ball.

And finally, is it fair to put all these bad defensive performances on his shoulders? Especially WSU, where Dragovic allowed a joke of a player go off (again) and the much bigger culprit for our defensive malaise was DC, who let Rochestie go off for 33. Jrue was pulled from the game not because he was our worst defender but because the other guys were more likely to keep us in the game on offense. Jrue may not be a stopper, but he’s still, in my opinion, our most consistent perimeter defender, and Howland must agree because he always puts Jrue on the other team’s best wing player.

I also hope Jrue leaves on a high note. If he doesn’t, I, too, will not think of him as well as I think of the other players who stayed longer, or even Love, who didn’t. But I’ll also think of him as having suffered in comparison not to his predecessors or teammates but to the expectations that we placed on him.

by BruinsRule on Mar 9, 2009 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are thinking a little too hard

No one here is diminishing JH’s stats or talking him down by ignoring ND’s shoddy defense. I think we have called ND out enough for his medicore defense and will continue to do so.

JH just has been pretty much absent in big games. I remember my freshman year in college well enough to recall how Tyus stepped in big games. People just need to look up his game against Arizona on the road his freshman season. JH hasn’t had any memorable game like that so far.

In fact I am going to bet if JH leaves after this season no one is going to remember much about him 10 years from now except for the fact that he was ridiculously hyped freshmen who never showed any special in games that really matter.

I am not saying all this to hate on JH. He is a great kid and I am sure a very good student. However, I am not going to let my love for this basketball program cloud what I see on the court.

by Nestor on Mar 10, 2009 4:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Couldn't find stats for that game

At least not when I googled it. I guess it was before Al Gore invented the internet. :) Don MacLean led us in scoring with 27, and Darrick Martin hit the game winner. It was too long ago for me to remember exactly what Tyus did, but I do remember that Tyus made an impact in most of his games, and he played with no fear. How else could a freshman move into the starting lineup in the first game of the NCAA tournament for a #1 seed? Indiana in November was the first time I saw him play, and man he was great.

If you define “big games” by those we have lost, then Jrue has been disappointing. But Jrue has stepped up in big games we have won. I guess it depends on what you call a big game. He had 13 points, 4 assists, 5 boards and very good defense on All-Pac-10 first team guard Patrick Christopher (6 points on 2 of 7 shooting) in a gut check win over Cal on Jan. 29, coming off our 2nd loss in 3 games and in danger of falling into 3rd place. 13 points, 7 assists and 5 rebounds against USC at Pauley (we would have fallen into a tie with USC had we lost that game). He fared decently in our win against UW (also against an all-Pac-10 guard), but not great, with 10 points.

Perhaps what we can agree on is that we need Jrue to step up like he did in the Cal and USC games in order for us to survive and advance in the tourney. I hope he does. I also hope he returns next year, when he should assume the role of “star” player, and lead the Pac-10 in assists and make first team All Pac-10.

by BruinsRule on Mar 10, 2009 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will wait till to see ..

how JH does this tourney season and whether or not he comes back next year. To date he just hasn’t earned a place in my book as a great Ben Ball warrior. Perhaps if he comes back next year he will take the next step but given what I have read, heard, and seen this season, I consider him gone.

by Nestor on Mar 11, 2009 4:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Relationship analogy

I think the problem that most Bruins fan have with Jrue is the fact that it seems like he is destined to leave after this year regardless of how well he or the team plays. So to take your girlfriend analogy, it is like having a girlfriend who you know if she cleaned herself up a little bit, would be a knockout. But at the same time you know that she is only with you until the end of the year because she has decided that she wants to leave town for the big city. You hold out hope that she will stay, but in your heart you both know that she is as good as gone which makes the current relationship bittersweet.

by bruinponcho on Mar 9, 2009 5:59 PM PDT reply actions  

lol...

I think this is right on the mark poncho. I am hoping but not expecting Jrue to stay. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he will stick around to learn under CBH for one more year, but won’t be crestfallen if he decides to go.

by bruinbunz on Mar 9, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Swiss army knife

They are called that because they were manufactured for and used by the Swiss Army. They became relevant here after WWII when soldiers returning from Europe brought them back with them. As always, Wikipedia has much more information on this subject. As for the Swiss being neutral, the country has remained neutral, but because of this, its soldiers were historically contracted out by foreign kings to act as their personal bodyguard because they presumably wouldn’t be traitorous.

by bruinponcho on Mar 9, 2009 6:06 PM PDT reply actions  

JH, I hope he stays

Rule, good post. Also, Nestor those are some interesting (disturbing) scoring lines for JH in our losses – WOW. He is still a freshman and I guess we should not be surprised by poor scoring nights (although being the POY in HS and the hype coming in, raises the bar). I would also like to see MR get some more time when JH is struggling.

Some points I made in another post wrt JH:
If you compare the last season of the recent early entry NBA draft picks out of UCLA; JF, AA, RW, KL, and Luc – JH has not had as good a season as any of those players and it’s not even close. Granted, JH is a freshman, but if he could have a very strong season coupled with his athleticism prior to entering the draft, you;d have to think he;d be a top 5 lock.

Thoughts on his play: he does defer to the seniors (which we should not knock him on too much), he does not seem to have great control of the ball (I too often see him losing control of it for some reason or another), his defense is pretty good although a bit sporadic (he may sometimes look like the culprit for defensive lapses when it really was a teammate, like ND, who was at fault and he is trying to help out).

I sure hope that he comes back next season (while working his tail off; e.g 500 jump shots a day and ball control drills in the off season) as the team would be "his" to lead and he could position himself as a top 3 pick.

by shaq on Mar 9, 2009 6:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Hmm

I’m not sure we can reach the conclusion that Jrue has not had as good a season as the other recent draft picks and especially that “it’s not even close.” Luc certainly didn’t tear it up his last year at UCLA (as a freshman, on the other hand, he was a revelation). He did the little things, but his poor offense allowed Memphis to dedicate two defenders to Love. Also, when you consider all of his offensive numbers, as I did above, Jrue’s are comparable to RW. Lastly, JF’s sophomore season was also considered a disappointment until the tournament began. Fans thought he was looking to the draft and not playing well. His offensive rating that year was an abysmal 99.3, which is not even in the ballpark for everyone else (and unlike Luc, his defensive contributions left much to be desired), mainly because of poor shooting (eFG) and a high turnover rate.

I’m not saying that Jrue’s season is necessarily better than these others, but it’s been better than the credit we are giving him. Or these other guys’ final seasons were not as good as we give them credit.

by BruinsRule on Mar 9, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

Great Posts, Rule!

As I said in another thread, JH is under appreciated.

This thread makes clear that the negative “impressions” of Jrue are more a function of emotion than statistical analysis.

Numbers will never make a player a “favorite” — but these at least support the fact that he should not be denigrated as not having met the standards set by previous players.

My overall sense of this is that Jrue suffers a reputation hit for two reasons: First, he is quiet, not flamboyant or outgoing; I like this part of him; he came here with a lot of hype and did not bring the attitude that might have accompanied it; my sense is that he is too respectful and deferential to capture a part of the fan base. And, second, I think that whenever we think someone will reject us (leave after a year) we build walls to protect ourselves; that’s the problem with all one and dones — especially those who we really want to stay (as I think most of us do with Jrue) but firmly believe they won’t.

(At the end of last year, when there was speculation that DC would leave early, there those who did not want him back and thought we’d be better without him. No one could have really believed that. I think that was a defense mechanism setting up a wall to diminish the pain of being “jilted” or left. Can anyone, today, say we would have been better off without DC?)

As I’ve written in another place, no one and done will ever make it to my all-time Bruin hero list — to me that takes more years.

But, I deeply appreciate everything Jrue has done for us, this year, starting with playing out of position and ending with taking the rap for things that are no more his fault than anyone else on the team.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Mar 10, 2009 3:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Jrue seems to suffer from labels attached to him - which he has no control over

It seems to me that there are a few factors that seem to make JH a relatively polarizing figure with Bruin fans (BruinRule is right about other sites absolutely vilifying JH – it’s troubling). Some of the factors seem more rational than others – but I can understand all of the points even if I don’t agree with them. Two of the points that I see regularly discussed are related to his hype coming in to UCLA and his potential draft status going out of UCLA. I believe that most of BN would acknowledge that Jrue has absolutely no control over both of these issues. If an NBA scout or team decides that he is a top 5 talent – why should he turn down an opportunity to make the type of guaranteed money that comes with that draft status? If you want to create analogies here for the typical fan – than it would be like a major corporation contacting you after a year of schooling and offering you an incredibly lucrative job and salary. Now, if you decided not to take the offer – there was no guarantee that you would get a similar offer the following year (in fact, you could end up receiving a drastically reduced offer). Additionally, if you decided to stay – it’s highly unlikely that you would receive a better offer. Oh yeah – and the best way to make the type of money that you can retire you and your family on is by getting into the professional world early and getting to the end of your first contract.

Now – would you turn down that opportunity because your friends (actually a bunch of crazed fans) think that you owe it to them to accomplish more in the classroom before you get to cash in on an offer like that? Especially when an offer like that could permanently impact your family and yourself in such a profound manner?

It’s not like JH hyped himself coming out of high school and it’s not like he’s projecting his draft status for the NBA. He seems like a pretty humble kid who contributes some significant skills to this basketball team. I know that he was Gatorade player of the year – but if you also read up on this year’s recruiting class – most pundits warned that this class was not nearly as good as last years. Specifically, I remember the recruiting experts stating that there would be very few players that would have the impact that KLove, Beasley, Rose, etc – had last year. So JH suffers most from the unrealistic expectations heaved upon him by crazy Bruins fans. We should not have expected him to be our savior – especially on a team lead by DC, JS, and PAA – who have played more games and in the case of PAA – won more games than any other Bruin in the history of Westwood. So, JH should take over a team lead by these 3 seniors – do you have any idea how much additional venom would be spewed at him if he did that. I don’t think JH had a great opportunity to succeed here.

If people are disappointed with what this team has achieved they should look at the players that have been around awhile – because more should be expected of them. To make JH so culpable seems wildly unfair.

by freudianslip on Mar 10, 2009 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Another Thought On Why Freshmen Should Come Back

I was looking at some pictures of JS and DC taken when they were freshmen. Time in the weight room has made them stronger and more athletic.

Even PAA, who was always strong looks stronger.

RW is the poster boy for what a summer, between the FR and SO seasons, can do for strength.

And, KL dropped out of school to get into shape before the draft. Still, he needs some work.

JH would really profit from another year here. And, I hope he stays.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Mar 9, 2009 8:00 PM PDT reply actions  

Agreed, but one note.

I certainly recognize that Jrue is a huge part of our team, and very important. He has started from day 1, which is about as strong as evidence as there is that he is the most gifted of all the freshman and came here ready to play. Jrue is an extremely good basketball player; there is really no question about that. If he stays for awhile, he can be one of the greatest in UCLA history.

I think the problem is/was, Holiday came in as THE high school player of the year. For better or worse, that set expectations high. And while they were probably too high—that is a problem that every high school player of the year faces. With the good, comes the bad. And while you can’t compare Jrue to Kevin Love—Love was just tremendously important last year in a year with remarkable freshman across the natiion—I think its natural to compare Jrue to other freshman this season (fair or not).

I think that the critiques are coming from those who see Holiday as only the 4th or 5th best player on our team, and who see other freshman shining a little brighter this year on teams who are a little better. Holiday was outplayed by Thomas in the Pac-10 (and Washington won the conference), and by other sterling freshman guards like Tyreke Evans (who has also led his team to a terrific season). I think that is a natural starting point for those who might be disappointed with Holiday.

As noted, Jrue is an exceptionally talented player who was incredibly important to this team. But, for better or worse, when you come in as the high school player of the year, many will expect the player to be a star his freshman year. And while Jrue will be a star if he stays, he is been a solid role guy this year.

But remember this. Collison and Westbrook were not stars their first year. And comparing freshman years, Holiday has had better freshman campaigns by far than those two. So if anyone is wondering whether Holiday’s future is bright-wonder no longer—it is very bright.

by rfirpo on Mar 10, 2009 7:56 AM PDT reply actions  

Not to rehash

But DC and RW did not have anywhere close to the hype that JH had. DC was barely even in the top 100 (even though having watched him play at Etiwanda I knew he was special) and RW was someone who was still available late into the process as we picked him up after JF declared for the draft. To compare them to JH is ridiculous. However, seeing the growth that DC and RW have had under CBH seems to me the best reason for JH to stay. But he is an 18 year old kid and might prefer being the 15th pick this year than being a top 3 pick next year. It is his decision to make.

by bruinponcho on Mar 10, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

my point was

that even if you criticize Jrue this year, that doesn’t mean he won’t be as good or better than RW and Collison.

by rfirpo on Mar 10, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

year to year

I really wasn’t all that impressed with Westbrook his freshman year, to the extent that I didn’t think he deserved the playing time he got. He sure improved, to say the least. Not from year one to year two, but I also thought Dragovic was near worthless last year, and he’s been amazing this year. Holiday started out as a far better player than these two. It would be great to see what another year under Howland would do for his game.

by AZBruin on Mar 10, 2009 9:25 AM PDT reply actions  

Great Analysis, Bruinsrule.

It is enlightening, and another reminder that we need to temper our expectations with reality sometimes.

As far as his career plans, I just try to keep in mind that he is an 18-year-old with a whole lot of pressure on him from other people about his own future.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Mar 10, 2009 9:33 AM PDT reply actions  

JH's role on this team

I touched upon earlier how it seems unrealistic to have expected JH to take over this team offensively in light of the senior leadership that was on this team. I think that it would be easier to appreciate JH if we understood his role on this team better (not suggesting I know exactly). My guess would be that his role in this offense was always meant to be an ancillary one. When you have DC as your point – it means that the ball is going to be in his hands the majority of the game. When you have a scorer like JS – it means that he is likely to get a higher volume of shots. You have outside shooters in ND and MR and you have your post players in PAA and DG. What role does that leave for JH?

Great programs and coaches identify a system that works for them – and then go about trying to recruit players that fit that system. CBH recruits certain types of players that fit his system – and he has done it with great success. After recruiting such players – the athletes need to buy into the system and accept their roles. It’s important that the players fulfill their roles in order for teams to be great. Considering the amount of minutes that CBH played JH – I would say it’s safe to assume that JH accepted his role just fine. Additionally – as BruinRule pointed out – JH was actually a very efficient offensive player for us.

So – it could be safe to assume that he fulfilled his role well – and that it was expected that the other players were going to take on the bulk of the offensive responsibilities (as far as distributing the ball – driving in the lanes – outside shooting). In fact, when considering who else is on this team – the fact that JH rebounded, passed, and scored so efficiently is pretty remarkable.

As far as cherry picking individual games for Bruins past – you could find many clunkers in even some of our most hallowed Bruins players resumes. As a whole – JH has been a valuable part of this team.

It doesn’t mean that I want him to leave for the draft – I assume that if he comes back – his role in this offense will increase dramatically – and we will get to see just how special he can be. With another year of weight training, maturation, coaching, etc – we will see his potential come closer to the surface. But if he decides to leave – I can’t blame him – I wouldn’t turn down a big pile of cash either (Chad Ford has predicted that JH would be a lottery pick – possibly even an early lottery pick).

by freudianslip on Mar 10, 2009 12:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Team Roles...

Hit it right on the button…There are roles that need to be filled on a team…
If a player plays out of position, the team will not function as efficiently. Just hoping Jrue has found his mojo and can live up to his billing both in the Pac10 tourney and during March Madness…

-Go BRUINS

by RScal on Mar 10, 2009 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

A few things that might be worth noting

Nice discussion. Bruinsrule’s opening comment “With the economy being where it is, I’ve had a lot of time to read about Bruin basketball” must be spot on. As of this post, 6300 words and 141 paragraphs have been dedicated to the pro’s and con’s of Jrue.
I agree with the 17 posters that said that it’s not fair to compare JH to KL. But I for one, look for greater from Jrue because just one year of KL left me wanting more- he was so great to watch!
A lot of time has been spent on JH being the fifth option and not given the chance to take a lead role in the offense. While I agree with this, it is important to note that defense is king under Howland. If this is true, then why was JH offensive skills noted 31 times so far in the discussion to 12 comments on his defense. Let’s face it, if the Lizard was still the coach JH would be scoring a heck of a lot more, but we also would be just bubble team for the tourney and most likely not been able to land a player of the year in the first place.
I’m loooking for Jrue to step it up in the upcoming weeks and give us some memories to burdon Tyler Honeycutt with next year.

Go Bruins
TRM

by G0Bruins on Mar 10, 2009 9:52 PM PDT reply actions  

found this mock draft

This is what they perdict for Holiday.

10. Indiana. Jrue Holiday, PG/SG, UCLA. Holiday probably needs more time at UCLA, but he’s a good example of what a lack of talent at the point guard position can do. He needs to improve in just about every facet of the game, but he has good size and clear natural ability. With PGs T.J. Ford and Jarrett Jack, the Pacers can afford to take a chance on developing a point guard.

by kyl57es on Mar 11, 2009 5:50 PM PDT reply actions  

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