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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

2009-2010 Basketball Preview: Early Musings

Bumped. GO BRUINS. -N

A few weeks ago, N asked me to write downs some thoughts on the upcoming basketball season.  I thought I would have a post up soon after but when it came down to it, I really had no idea what to expect.  I have found it difficult to produce a "most likely outcome" based on a win-loss total mostly because a.) there's so much potential variance due to obvious reasons (youthful inexperience) and b.) I personally don't care about wins next season.  We'll get our fair share because the conference will truly be as bad as all the pundits will argue (so be prepared for that).

Disclaimer: Like N, I am operating on the assumption that Jrue is gone.  If he does come back, we'll be much better than what I will outline below.  Obviously.

But like most here on BN, I am going to be exicted about and anticipating significant development from our young guns.  However, how can we possibly predict the extent to which this will occur?  Drew Gordon could be one of the best rebounders in the Pac 10 with increased minutes, but will he be a consistent low post scoring threat?  Malcolm is already well on his way to being a lockdown defender, but can he develop into a reliable jump shooter?  How will Jerime handle most of the minutes at the point?  While we all saw evidence of his vision, passing skills, and athleticism, he struggled mightily at times and really didn't get enough time to be able to accurately project sophomore production.  Clearly all three of these guys will be good to great Pac 10 players eventually.  Will it be next year or the year after?  Hard to tell.

I'd be willing to bet we will see some improvement from DG but not enough for him to be a consistent low post scoring threat that he could very well become by his junior/senior years.  However, what we will almost certainly see is a better rebounding team as a result of getting more minutes for DG.  As much as we may have appreciated Aboya's tenacious desire, DG is an athletic, aggressive leaper with a good positioning instinct for the ball, thus a better rebounder in my opinion.  Also Keefe's rebounding cannot be overlooked.  A key to good team rebounding, as obvious as it sounds, is to have several good rebounders with proper size for the position.  Aboya was out of place at the five and really could have used some help on the weakside (the combination of Drago and Aboya at the 4 and 5 hurt us badly in terms of clearing the defensive glass and getting putbacks on the offensive end).

With the amount of talent coming in along with the potential improvement of last year's freshmen could mean less minutes for Drago by default.  Moreover, our rebounding deficiencies from last year are likely to be remedied due to DG's increased minutes along with Keefe.  I'd argue that a combination of two out of four of DG, JK, ND, JM will be more effective than ND, PAA, JK and DG were last year based on minute allocation (more for DG and JK, hopefully less for ND with JM getting 8-15 min/game).  This is a good thing.  Add our rebounding potential at the other positions and we could even be a good rebounding team next year. 

Furthermore, I really believe the development of Bobo will be the most important determinent to whether or not this team will be a threat to compete for a championship in the next few years, especially concerning a low post shot blocking presence.  Some of you may expect DG to fill this role, but he is more of a weakside shotblocker, not an intimidating body that will clog the lane and prevent penetrators from going into the lane in the first place.  DG's shotblocking is more of a last line of defense coming over from the weak side.  With no defensive three seconds rule, Bobo's defensive development is critical to the success of this time over the next few years.  We need an imposing shot blocking presence, and we need one badly (no offense to Aboya taking charges).  Player development next year will be critical to getting back to the Final Four (and ultimately a championship), which is why I am so ambivalent to wins and losses in particular, as they won't measure where we stand with regard to the year of development for Honeycutt, Moser, Stover, etc.  In two years this team will be scary good with prototypical size and athleticism at every position to defend and rebound, two things I'm pretty sure Howland gets results with.

As for Honeycutt next year, he could be effective just because he has a college-ready jumper and the size to get it off whenever he wants.  But will he be able to play well enough defensively to secure enough minutes for any of that to matter?  He is skinny to say the least.  All of this leads to a rather unpredictable scenario of whether or not TH will get significant minutes to contribute to even Holiday's level.  Nine points and six boards would be great.  He could potentially do more, but it might be more likely to expect less.

Moser will find the floor, but we can't expect him to produce much offensively.  A Malcolm-like freshman year showing his defensive potential would be nice.  Reeves Nelson could see minutes as a rebounding specialist, while Brendan Lane and Stover are likely to see the Bobo treatment. 

It's kind of funny how I've gone this far and have not mentioned much about the returning upperclassmen,  not that I don't appreaciate what they bring.  Realistically, Drago will be Drago (too slow on defense, capable rebounding, and 40 to 45 percent from three).  In my opinion, he is a player that should not be getting starters minutes.  If he plays over 20 minutes, we are committing ourselves to being at best an average defensive team as CBH's man-to-man demands intensity, focus, and quickness in recovery from every position.  He will never have all three of these qualities.  He is a detriment to the team defense no matter what position he plays whether it be the 3 or the 4.  Three point specialists that don't play defense haven't really been a Ben Howland staple in the starting rotation.  It was done out of necessity last year, and perhaps a bit too much.

In terms of overall offensive potential, I have a tough time predicting a point total.  Who is our go to guy?  Malcolm can penetrate, finish, and can shoot fairly well so he is a candidate.  I don't think we can expect JA to do any more next year than JH did for us last year it terms of scoring.  DG could get close to 10/game.  Drago should hover around that as well, unless his playing time is significantly reduced, since he really can shoot the ball.  Roll could be a pleasant surprise offensively as he has shown a diverse game over the past year where defenders would bite on his ball fakes and he would slide into the lane for a nice midrange pull up.  Keefe is Keefe.  Adequate shooter who will get some putbacks.  There's little to no chance he reaches a double digit scoring average.  I can't project anything for Bobo.  It all depends on how long he can stay in, but he has shown flashes of being a capable low post scoring threat.  Again, Honeycutt has the tools, but is he strong enough defensively to get enough time to use them?  If he can shoot like Drago he might have a chance to score in bunches.  His size and athleticism is a dream for our transition game as well, which could also improve from last year given JA's court vision along with ML keying transition buckets off of defensive pressure.  This team will be more athletic, quicker, and potentially more emotionally invested in the taking leadership roles now that minutes are there to be had.

Time for some predictions:

Given the apparent weakness in the Pac 10 I optimisitically see next year's team reaching 20 wins and a top 3 Pac 10 finish.  Washington and Cal will be the toughest teams, with USC capable of making a run, I guess.  Other than that, look at the conference and you will notice a huge dropoff in talent.  ASU, Arizona, Oregon, OSU, Stanford, and WSU just don't have the recruits (or for some, coaches for that matter).  18 conference games, 12 non conference plus the Pac 10 tourney and I think it might be hard to avoid reaching a 20 win season regardless of our inexperience.  We just won't be challenged enough.  The kicker however might be that our schedule will be so weak we could be a bubble team if 20 wins are all we can muster.  But again, wins and losses this year mean little to me, as the next few years could be the start of another epic run of Final Fours.  As long as Coach puts us in a position to compete for National Championships, the outcome will soon enough take care of itself.  And IIRC, he has a decent track record of player development.  His program is fast becoming a NBA pipeline, and that combination of talent and coaching will get us to where we want to be.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?  If you're reading this you got through this rambling mess and I much appreciate it.  Time for football! GO BRUINS!!!!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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There is so much good stuff to unpack here

I will start it off with your observation/concern re. ND getting starter mins. I agree with you. Unless we see dramatic improvement from ND’s defense, I’d like to see Howland give his mins away to some of the youngsters (early on) and give them a chance to show what they can do on defense. I will try to post more reactions to your post later. And will certainly bump this up for more discussion either tomorrow night or on Tuesday.

by Nestor on Apr 26, 2009 6:54 PM PDT reply actions  

ND will start and be the leading scorer

Great post mdjohns.

I know N and others on here are going to disagree with me on this, but ND will likely be our leading scorer next year. People love bashing his defense which is admittedly not up to the LRMAM that he replaced, but his scoring more than makes up for it and is why he will see significant minutes next year (probably between 25-30—I don’t see anybody playing more than 30 a game next year). You said it yourself:

In terms of overall offensive potential, I have a tough time predicting a point total. Who is our go to guy?

As you did a great job of analyzing, none of our returning players have really shown any offensive ability. ND (and MR) are the only ones who you can look at and say, “he can make a jumper if we need it.” DG, ML, and JA are going to be good, but none of them are nearly as polished offensively as ND. Based on the huge improvement ND made last season, I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect that he will improve his defense to an adequate level next year. He has shown that he is committed to improving and to the program.

As for your analysis of the freshman, I think your projection for TH is a little overly optimistic (I would definitely take it though). MM will probably get some time similar to ML last year. I really like BL, but he is a very similar player to ND and if I am right about ND, BL probably won’t get much burn next year.

by bruinponcho on Apr 26, 2009 11:59 PM PDT reply actions  

A perfect example

How to offer up reasonable disagreements in a respectful manner.

poncho … for me … and I will expand more on this eventually … I just like to see Coach Howland give the younger guys a little more time (and room to make errors) like he did with JF/AA early on during their freshmen year … so that we can find what other young players can offer up at the 4 spot. ND can score. However, we need better defense and more effective rebounding from that spot. No, I am not expecting anyone to play like LRMAM (who was an athletic freak). However, we have got to get more on boards and in rebounding from our power forward spot.

by Nestor on Apr 27, 2009 4:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with ND getting starter minutes

right now. N on you point about getting the younger guys more time: I agree with you but I also don’t think Howland will have a choice this year. Outside of the 3 Srs – only freshman and sophmores are left and assuming JH is gone – none of the sophmores really got extended minutes on a game to game basis.

We need a pitcher...not a DL itcher!

by gorams77 on Apr 29, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

ND Supporter

I agree with you Poncho concerning the value that ND has and the potential he can bring next season. I hear all the arguments about his D and the bashing he takes from some here but I am of the opinion that he makes up for it with his offense – because no one else was going to pick up the scoring he brought last season. So using JH as an example – I think the expectations of the incoming class should be tempered a little as far as them taking over as go-to scoring options. ND will need to get his attempts.

There is a lot of love that JK gets from some posters here vs ND but I can’t wrap my brain around the argument that JK should be getting more minutes than ND. I get it, ND’s rotations are slow and we lose D – but he did get better as the season went on so there is no reason to believe the improvement won’t continue. He also began -albiet late in the season – improving his rebounding numbers. My only real complaint about ND is that he loves to live behind the arc when he has good skills inside of it that if he used more often could increase his scoring and open up more shots for others.

We need a pitcher...not a DL itcher!

by gorams77 on Apr 29, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions  

ND Watcher

I think what gives me hope for ND’s defensive play—as you point out—is the steady rate of improvement he demonstated last season. If he continues to improve like that, I believe he will be an obvious choice to start.

ND can be frustrating to watch, for me, because he seems just that “one beat” behind a good, tough defensive rhythm. Playing good, fast offensive teams, that kills us. (He has proven himself as a scorer, obviously.) I could be overly optimistic here, but I have faith that ND is doing whatever CBH has asked him to do over the summer, and he will bring it this year.

I also think JA may surprise us; with more consecutive minutes, I expect him to become much more productive, and way less prone to error.

Also, and this is clearly just a "faith-based’ prediction, not a “scientific” one, I think one of our sophomores will break out in a big way, like RW did. Based on what Coach Howland has said, and on what we saw last year, that sounds like ML. He will become our “Let’s Go” guy.

This is a great analysis, mdjohns4, thank you.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on May 10, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gonna be interesting

I see the upcoming team having similar results like CBH’s 2nd year when we had some seniors but was also breaking in the JF/AA/JS/LMR class. The Pac 10 will be down next year as you’ve noted and the championship will be up for grabs.

I really like what the guys can potentially bring to the program but I don’t see a tremendous leap in production from any individual. I can see a lot of different people leading us in scoring in games. It can be viewed as balance or not having a main “Go To Guy”. Even if one assumes that MR/ND/JK get a lot of PT due to their experience, they’ll likely be in roles that they’ve never been in before. The seniors are solid but they’re complimentary players.

We’ll definitely make the tourney but we are a really, really young team (75% of our team are either FR or Soph). I’ve read the press clippings/seen video on the FR class but I’m not expecting much from them. As you noted, Stover and Lane are RS candidates to me. I think Reeves will provide some toughness (a young Harpring type). Both Moser & Honeycutt have a lot of potential but they’re still raw. Love the length they bring but scoring will be a struggle.

IMO, the level of success will be determined by the Soph class. There will be improvement but I don’t think it’ll be to the level that some out there are either expecting or hoping for. None of the Soph’s really got extensive PT or were being counted on to produce on a consistent basis.

Our warriors kind of remind me of our OL. We have some guys that have been in the program a few years, some young guys that got some burn and some highly touted guys coming in. But, we have no clue if we’ll have the type of OL we’re hoping for.

I hope CBH uses our non-conference schedule to experiment and get these guys some experience. I’m excited to see what type of team we’ll have but I’m also realistic. Like I said, it’s gonna be interesting to say the least.

by BlueReign on Apr 27, 2009 12:58 AM PDT reply actions  

I initially shuddered at the idea of Nelson being "a young Harpring type"

He’s intense and all, but he’s a little lacking in many areas nowadays – now that his athleticism (however much of it he had) is going down (too much football, I guess…), he just doesn’t add a lot in terms of his skills. And then I realized how great that would actually be, because as a young version of him, maybe Nelson wouldn’t fall down on defense as much, and might be able to make some layups. And we wouldn’t be absolutely shocked whenever he dunks, which is nice.

by jaffa on Apr 30, 2009 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree with you on the strength of the Pac 10

I was talking to a buddy of mine the other day (he is a Big 12 guy) and he mentioned to me that UCLA has to be hurting with last yrs losses of KL, RW, LRM + DC and JS. I told him that next year was going to be more of a rebuilding year that an assault on the championship but we would still probably end up in 2nd place in the PAC. The talent and athletes we have along with our coaching is good enough to beat the rest of the league. Wash should easily be the favorite with UCLA and Cal following and USC’s potential one and done run to decency.

I am already mentally preparing myself for the PAC 10 is weak arguments coming from all the “experts” – cause they’ll be right.

We need a pitcher...not a DL itcher!

by gorams77 on Apr 29, 2009 9:10 AM PDT reply actions  

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