Coaching Question from U of A Fan...
by uclafan11 on Apr 6, 2009 11:05 AM PDT
27 comments
This email was in my Youtube inbox this morning and while I can definitely respond on my own, I thought the lovely people here at BN could help. I mean, WHERE do I begin?
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Steve Lavin I'm a U of A fan, I brought up the fact that Steve Lavin would be a solid coach to be considered for the position. He knows the Pac-10 and the west coast very well, it's proven he can recruit on the west coast and nationally, he's put numerous players in the NBA, he made 5 sweet-16's in 6 years including 1 final-four in the most pressurized head-coaching position in college sports. But lately every UCLA fan has said he was a terrible coach who nearly put the program in shambles and shouldn't ever be a head-coach again, can you explain to me how he was a bad coach and put the greatest college basketball program in shambles? I just can't seem to understand why they would think that... Thx Fire Away! |
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This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
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Well
Looks like this may be a moot point anyway. Miller apparently flipped this morning and is taking the Arizona job after all. Still, I feel this fan deserves the truth about the Lizard!
GO BRUINS!!!
by uclafan11 on Apr 6, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tough one
On the one hand, you don’t want outsiders to be duped into thinking that UCLA fans are just too demanding for a “good” coach like the Lavinoma, so you want to explain that the guy really had no clue what he was doing.
On the other hand…if other schools in the Pac-10 want to hire Lavin, then you kind of want to let them believe that he is a good coach.
Kind of a catch-22…
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on Apr 6, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lavin
That guy is spot on! Lavin was actually a terrific coach, and would be a great torch-bearer for the proud Arizona Wildcat tradition.
Oh wait, you say Arizona already hired someone?
Never mind.
by bornagainbruin on Apr 6, 2009 11:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is he a pathetic coach?
Consider these two things. He had one of the best shooters in UCLA history and currently the NBA’s top shooter in Jason Kapono. Not once did Lavin call a play to set a screen for him. Lavin didn’t have offensive sets or plays. The other would be when we had either six or seven future NBA players and were never better than mediocre because they had no idea what they were doing on the field.
If you need any further confirmation, think of what Lavin’s own player Baron Davis had to say about him. When Davis was walking through Pauley Pavilion with a reporter he pointed up at the banners and said, “we should get a banner for being the only team to make the tournament without a coach” (those may be not the exact words, but that’s close).
P.S. That quote is one reason why I love Baron.
by Ryan Rosenblatt on Apr 6, 2009 11:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
There was no discipline and he let those kids run wild. Baron ran the practices. Can you imagine Howland kicking back and letting one of his guys do that? I love that Baron speaks candidly about his time at UCLA. He told me a similar thing when we said that we wished he would have stayed. He said “I would have, but I didn’t have a coach”
Enough said.
by uclafan11 on Apr 7, 2009 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If That Comment Alone Wouldn't Do It
Nothing would. We would have had at least one more national title with that talented group, if they had only had a real coach.
Outrageous.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on Apr 7, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Coach Howland's Predecessor can be compared to the early contestants on American Idol
Coach Howland’s Predecessor (I cannot make myself type his name) not only impersonated a coach, he was so self-deluded that he did not realize the breadth and scope of his ineptitude. His departure from the school, which he perceived to be because of unrealistic expectations from fans, or something like that, reminds me of the hopelessly terrible singers who are filmed leaving American Idol with their moms and dads and cursing Simon for telling them they were awful. Which I guess describes his manner of teaching and guiding (I can’t call it “coaching”) – he was American Idle.
by Fox 71 on Apr 7, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Instead of "teaching"...
…or “guiding,” how about, “being in the gym during practices and standing on the sideline wearing a suit during the games?”
That was about it, other than collecting a paycheck.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on Apr 14, 2009 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His revisionist history on ABC broadcasts too
They have been absolutely KILLING ME.
I know I know, turn the sound down, but sometimes I want to hear how ridiculous he paints his last year at Westwood.
My sister, who is in her last year at UCLA, has a friend that wonders why I cannot stand the Lizard. I say plainly, you were not here during that awful time, watching games, hoping we could outplay the other team without any type of direction. You have had Ben Howland. The Lizard pretended to be a coach. Coach Howland is a coach.
by freesia39 on Apr 7, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Unreasonable Expectations"
He has done more to create and foster the false mantra that no coach is safe at UCLA, because the fans have “unreasonable expectations”, than any other person.
Unless it is unreasonable to expect a coach to know the difference between a zone and man-to-man defense, or to teach his players, our expectations are quite reasonable, thank you.
He constantly attacks our fan base and culture.
And, he has been snarky about CBH — which is totally unacceptable.
I might forgive his total ineptitude — after all it is Peter Dallis who hired and retained him, but I will never accept that charlatan trashing our fan base.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Apr 8, 2009 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like finding a dog turd on your lawn
I don’t listen to announcers, so I can’t really say that I’ve ever heard him say anything. I believe what my brother’s and sisters say, however, and that’s why I liken CHP to a piece of dog crap on the lawn. I don’t have to have seen Fido crouching down to know that he did it.
I think the place to complain would be his employer. If enough people let it be known that they will not tune in any show that he is on (I was about to say something about a game which he analyzes, but that would have been giving him too much credit), maybe he will be sent to pasture. Then he will have a bigger lawn to crap on and no one will care.
by Fox 71 on Apr 8, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lavin is a fucking bastard
He’s one of the biggest douchebags in recent memory. I honestly cannot fucking stand the man. If a truck ran him over, honestly (and you can call me a total dick for saying it), I wouldn’t feel bad. At all.
Actually, I’d be happy the son-of-a-bitch who ruined our program, blamed all of us fans, and stole millions from our alma mater, got his fucking due.
Fuck you Steve Lavin. You’re a worthless piece-of-shit.
by Bellerophon on Apr 8, 2009 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't beat around the bush, Bell.
Go ahead and let it out.
by Fox 71 on Apr 8, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but
I bet you’d have a beer with him (wink wink)
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on Apr 9, 2009 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would...
….but only to throw the beer in his face and tell him to eat s**t and f**king die.
by Bellerophon on Apr 25, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lavin
One of the best coaches in America during his time at UCLA. Great recruiter, solid motivator. The problem was that he was the epitome of the “peter principle”; he did a fine job and was promoted up to the point where he was no longer competent, and petered out. He didn’t have the full acumen to be a head coach.
There’s a small chance things might have worked better had he been able to hire (or even been willing to hire) assistants to fill in his numerous deficiencies (player skills/fundamentals improvement; an Xs and Os, strategy/tactics guy; a disciplinarian), but that would have been a longshot. He should have been a one-year, interim head coach.
His players didn’t improve.
by haywood nighttrain on Apr 7, 2009 11:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He has one positive attribute
Lavin’s wife is smokin hot!
Go Bruins
TRM
by G0Bruins on Apr 7, 2009 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A simple metric....
Ben Howland has coached UCLA for 6 seasons. There have been dozens of college head coaching vacancies across the country during that time, not to mention many NBA ones. Not a single program has taken the chance on hiring Steve Lavin. This is true even though he is considered a good recruiter and his program was pretty much free from accusations of rules violations or scandals. It is more than a statistical coincidence that so many schools have declined his services. The apparent reason, as noted by several folks above, is that he did not make his players better, let alone prepared to play pro ball.
by ucla7477 on Apr 7, 2009 7:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
On a related point...
Lavin left UCLA in such a state that even a coach as skilled as Ben Howland immediately started with UCLA’s first losing record since the 1940s. It’s hard to rationalize that Howland can’t coach as he inherited the Lavin mess and is now one of very few coaches to make 3 Final Fours in a row.
by ucla7477 on Apr 7, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One exception
NC State Athletic Director was stupid enough to consider him seriously two years ago after firing Herb Sendek. Yeah, its working out really well for him.
by Nestor on Apr 8, 2009 5:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consider this...
From Fall 1996 through Spring 2004, Lavin coached the following players who made it onto actual NBA rosters for actual regular-season NBA games — not merely CBA or D-League, but actually PLAYED in the Big Show itself:
Charles O’Bannon
Toby Bailey
J.R Henderson
Jelani McCoy
*Baron Davis
*Earl Watson
Jerome Moiso
*Matt Barnes
*Dan Gadzuric
*Jason Kapono
Cedric Bozeman
*Ryan Hollins
Dijon Thompson
- — In the league NOW.
You can look them up on NBA.com or Wikipedia. That’s THIRTEEN (13) different players that had legitimate NBA-level ability, whether they be a legit All-Star like Baron; or long-term solid players who earned good (i.e. NBA mid-level salary cap exception) contracts at about $5M a year like Watson, Kapono and Gadzuric; up-and-comers like Barnes and Ariza; or even guys who flamed out in the League but are still playing overseas, like Henderson (i.e. Sakuragi) and Thompson.
You know how many Final Fours they got to in Lavin’s SEVEN YEARS as Head Pseudo-Coach? NONE. (The voiding of Minnesota’s win in the Elite 8 over us in 1997 is kind of a cheapie.)
NOW, look at the guys on CBH’s rosters that had legit NBA time since he’s been here:
*Trevor Ariza
Cedric Bozeman
*Ryan Hollins
*Jordan Farmar
*Arron Afflalo
*Russell Westbrook
*Kevin Love
*Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
SEVEN guys (with 2 of them holdovers from Lavin). SIX YEARS.
THREE FINAL FOURS.
Lavin had a near-embarrassment of riches, including 2 seasons with FOUR future, multi-year, multi-contract NBA-players (Kapono, Watson, Gadzuric, and Barnes), and still couldn’t get out of a region without a technicality.
Anything can happen in a Final 4. We get that. We WANT championships, but we understand it takes some things we can’t control tog et them. All we want is a coach who TEACHES our players how to (a) play the right way, (b) grow and improve as players and people, and © be in the best, most-prepared position possible to succeed.
THAT’S why we can’t stand Lavin.
M
"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008
by Meriones on Apr 8, 2009 8:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
CBH Put Hollins in the NBA
He never reached anywhere near his potential under the lizard.
sjh
by Class of 66 on Apr 8, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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