Jrue Holiday gets it wrong again
Bumped. GO BRUINS. -N
Nestor highlighted Jrue getting it wrong before, well it looks like he has done it again.
I have been one of the few holdouts around here that thought that Jrue would get good advice and see the light and come back to UCLA for his sophomore year. My belief was that this would not only improve his draft stock, but would allow Jrue to achieve his potential and become a good NBA player.
Alas, Nestor can finally find me solidly behind him regarding Jrue not coming back. The LA times had an article profiling Jrue today. Here is where Jrue adds to the list of getting it wrong:
"In college, it's all about defense," he said. The NBA "seems like it's more fun. You can be you."
Oh Jrue. One of the worst myths about the NBA is that they don't care about defense. The reason that players make it and have careers in the NBA is because of their DEFENSE. There is a reason that Russel and Luc got lots of playing time in their rookie years as compared to players like Luc's teammate Joe Alexander or the Lakers' Adam Morrison--they can defend at an NBA level.
The NBA isn't about "fun." It is a business where the bottom line is production. If you can't play/defend to help your team win, then you aren't going to be in the game much having "fun."
Jrue could come back to UCLA next year and develop into a top tier point guard who is ready to contribute to an NBA team from day one. Unfortunately, it appears that he will instead get drafted on "potential" and be a project where he will be left to develop and have "fun" riding the bench.
I know lots of people take their frustrations for this past season and place them on Jrue. I don't have any ill will towards Jrue, I just think he is getting terrible advice. He is working out with David Thorpe (who does the rookie rankings column for ESPN--conflict of interest much?) who seems to be under the same impression that Mr. Holiday is that Jrue will skyrocket once he does individual workouts. Whatever. Maybe I'm wrong and they are right.
But Jrue is WAY down on the list of available guards right now behind point guards Ricky Rubio, Brandon Jennings, Ty Lawson, Jonny Flynn, Jeff Teague as well as shooting guards James Harden, Demar Derozan, Tyreke Evans, Stephen Curry, Gerald Henderson, and Terrence Williams. That is 13 guards ahead of him. Throw in players like Eric Maynor, Patty Mills, and Chase Budinger (all of whom I would draft over him), and Jrue could be even farther down the draft board. And I don't think that every team in the draft is going to be looking at guards. The reason that these players are ahead of Jrue is that either they have proven their abilities in college and can help a team or they have shown enough improvement that they are worth the risk. Plus, do you really think that these players aren't also looking to improve their draft stock in those individual workouts to or I guess they are just going to roll over and let Jrue take their draft spot and money.
Jrue, your thoughts?
Meanwhile, working out each day, watching NBA games at night, Holiday seems as if he is getting an inkling of the future.
"I think I'd fit in well," he said.
Again, I don't dislike Jrue or even care about his impact on UCLA basketball. It just makes me sad that such a good player can waste his talent by operating on bad advice and assumptions.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.
7 recs |
65 comments
Comments
I don't know
Jrue isn’t dumb, but his comments here are just so wrong. He has it completely backwards. College basketball in general places less of an emphasis on defense and it’s generally more “fun.” Jrue Holiday just chose to go to one of the few places where the coach focuses on defense.
Did he not know anything about Ben Howland’s defense first style before committing to UCLA? It’s not some secret. He could have played for Lorenzo Romar or Roy Williams, but he chose the program that primarily focuses on defense. If all he wanted to do was have fun, he could have gone anywhere else.
I still believe that Holiday can thrive in CBH’s system next season as he will have more control over the ball. However, he’s not helping himself or the UCLA basketball program with these comments.
by Bruin Roar on May 2, 2009 12:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I really would love it if he would stop indirectly
blaming the UCLA system for his mediocre first year (as measured in comparison to the hype etc).
He is doing the program a disservice and quite frankly he is slowly making his way into my “don’t forget your bags and watch your head on the way out” book.
B.F.
by eubruin on May 3, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, Jrue
Bruinponcho is absolutely correct. I am no expert on the nba by any stretch of the imagination, but I have seen many a stellar offensive player in college become a total nothing in the nba. Adam Morrison is a very good example currently. In the distant past I remember Luther “Ticky” Burden, a great scorer in college but a total bust in the pros. And there are lots, lots more.
Holiday’s statement doesn’t sound like it comes from a guy planning to return to college, and I think that is a tremendous mistake for him. My track record at predicting the future pretty much guarantees that Holiday will be an immediate success in the nba.
by Fox 71 on May 2, 2009 12:49 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
JJ Reddick
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on May 6, 2009 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What did Kobe say
when being interviewed last week at the end of one of the games against the Jazz? He said quite succinctly that the first thing to be emphasized by his team was…DEFENSE!!!! Of course, Kobe never went to college…
by daggy on May 2, 2009 7:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Talking Heads during games
have been loving that Kobe and LeBron play defense.
They get their points but they also do their job on the other end.
by freesia39 on May 2, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
LRMAM has made a splash his first year in the NBA for his defense, rebounding and understanding of the game. Right now Jrue sounds like a kid who needs a lot of maturing and it seems like he is not getting the right advice from the people around him.
by Nestor on May 2, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont follow the Lakers closely
but I do listen to the talk radios and from what I heard, one of the major reasons why Phil Jackson went with Shannon Brown as the backup PG over Farmar was because of his physical defense. He’s bigger and stronger than Farmar and can keep up with big guards e.g. Deron Williams, Chauncey, etc. Unless Jrue has been working hard a lot and packed on serious muscle I doubt he can handle the NBA 1’s
by drebruin on May 3, 2009 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
As misplaced/misdirected Holiday's comments are in public
The signal/chatter coming from his people in the background are worse.
by Nestor on May 2, 2009 9:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd Love to Read the Background Noise from His People
Where can I find it?
And, I won’t argue with any of you anymore, but I just don’t see these statements from Jrue, taken out of context, as damning or in any way reflecting a negative light in our program.
If anything, he’s telling people that you have to play D to play at UCLA — which is a message we want distributed. Add that to all of the stuff y’all (that’s the Texas side of me) are pointing out about how the people in the NBA value D, and it makes clear that we are the place to go to become pro’s.
The one thing I can agree upon is Nestor’s statement above that Jrue seems to be getting bad advice from those around him. And, that’s a shame. He seems like a respectful, deferential kid, and apparently the people he’s respecting and to whom he is deferring are leading him down the wrong path.
sjh
by Class of 66 on May 2, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
66
With all due respect I am not going to share everything I hear in confidence. And I have built enough of a track record around here to offer observations without providing sources.
Also get use to this. Every time we hear anything from Holiday or his camp reflecting negatively on UCLA or Coach Howland, we are going to push back hard. Our program is much bigger than a player who once the “testing waters” charade is over will be remembered as much as O’mma Givens 10 years from now.
by Nestor on May 2, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Not Challenging You -- Just curious to read what they are saying.
From what I understand, JH has surrogates on other boards or somewhere saying things for him in the same way that DW’s family was saying things during the hiring process.
If what is being said is not being reported anywhere, I trust you to be reporting it here.
But, if it is out there, I’d love to read it because I can’t conceive of anyone thinking that the things that are being said are (1) true and (2) good for JH.
I don’t read any other Bruin blogs — so I’m not proficient with going out and searching for this stuff. I was just asking for a reference so I could find it. No challenge intended.
sjh
by Class of 66 on May 2, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well here is the thing
People who appear to have close connection to the Holiday camp are talking behind protected firewalls of paid message boards. It hasn’t been very good and given the way their whining re. Howland has been incessent all season, I don’t feel warm and fuzzy about Holiday any more. I honestly believe UCLA will be better off without him next season. Sure it might cost us 2-3 wins but in the long run I think UCLA basketball will be better off without Holiday in the team next season.
For the time being though if we see this kind of stupid comment from Holiday, we are going to push back (thanks to poncho for beating us to the punch today).
by Nestor on May 2, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem N
I am absolutely with you on Jrue. He has alienated himself from the program so much that even if he did finally get some good advice and come back, I feel like it would be disastrous to team chemistry next year. I would much rather have JA, ML, and MR be our backcourt next year and deal with their mistakes then have JH and his selfish attitude poison a young team next year.
by bruinponcho on May 2, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More defense
I can’t remember who it was, but I read an article about a NBA rookie this year, and they asked him about adjusting to the league defensively. He said that in college, he had to know about 8 different defenses, but in the NBA it was far more. He asked an assistant coach how many they ran, because he couldn’t remember the exact number, and the coach said “oh, about 30 or so.” It just looks like there isn’t any defense in the NBA because so many players are on a such higher level that the offense is also better.
by Westwood Wizard on May 2, 2009 9:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
from what I've seen in 1-2 games of Bulls-Celtics
it’s all about mismatches. Whenever I see Pierce guarded by Hinrich, I always think..man Paul is gonna eat this guy
by drebruin on May 3, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Jrue
Please just hire an agent and get this over with, i’m tired of this
by buffsnbruins on May 2, 2009 11:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If he seems so set on having
fun in the NBA, it would be phenomenal if he could have the courtesy to declare so that Howland could actively recruit another player. He is taking up a spot on a team right now, and giving that same team the back-hand. This is not what I expected from a guy like Jrue Holiday.
B.F.
by eubruin on May 3, 2009 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
He’s this years Trevor Ariza. Goodbye Jrue and have fun in the NBA.
It’s time to look forward. The Bruins will be fine without him. Next topic, please.
by EdDunkle on May 3, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Trevor Ariza at all
Trevor had been recruited by the Lavinoma and I doubt would have been recruited by Howland. It was understandable that he’d want to leave after a year because he hadn’t signed up for Howland’s system at all. Jrue knew what he was getting into. Very different.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on May 4, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Trevor Ariza was sick for a good portion of the season
so it was easy to dismiss his “average” freshman year.
by bornagainbruin on May 4, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This does not bode well for him
That’s definitely the wrong attitude to take if he wants to play at the next level. The NBA will not be “fun” for you if you do not play defense. No coach is going to give a rookie minutes if he can’t adequately defend, to say nothing of offensive abilities. He would do well to read the Ian Thomsen article from a couple months back:
“They don’t play defense in the NBA.‘’ Said Celtics coach Doc Rivers: "That’s one you always hear, and then the [college] players get up here and realize they didn’t play defense there [in college].’’
If I may paraphrase, Rivers is saying that the defense is far more sophisticated and demanding in the NBA. I asked Heat rookie point guard Mario Chalmers, MVP of last year’s Final Four, how many defensive schemes he learned in college. "We had four or five defenses at Kansas,’’ he said in Boston this week.
How many defenses are schemed by the Heat? "I don’t know,‘’ said Chalmers, who called across the locker room to Miami assistant coach Ron Rothstein. "Coach, how many defenses do we run?’’
Rothstein wasn’t quite sure how to answer. "We defend for the pick-and-roll,‘’ he said, "for isolation, for the catch-and-shoot, for the single screen, for the double screen, for the side pick-and-roll …’’ He went on and on.
“You’re talking about more than a dozen defenses,’’ Chalmers said.
Said Rothstein: "The NBA is about defensive situations. You have a way you operate, and then you go from there. Depending on the team you’re playing, you make changes.’’
by Tydides on May 2, 2009 12:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Michael Jordan??
Wonder if young Jrue has any recollection of an old-timer, used to play for the Bulls, a guy named Michael.
*This vintage, old-school cat was having so much fun doing this:
*
Nine-time NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1988-1993, 1996-1998)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1988)
Which seemed to correlate with having even more fun doing this:
6× NBA Champion (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
5× NBA MVP (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998)
Then, ended up earning these sorts of accolades:
MJ was named the greatest North American athlete of the 20th century by ESPN, and was second to Babe Ruth on the Associated Press’s list of athletes of the century. He was elected to the Basketball Hall of Fame on April 6, 2009 and will be inducted in September 2009.
Ya, Jrue, maybe you’re right that defense is not important in the NBA…
Easy money and faithless women, red-eye whiskey for the pain...
by rich87 on May 2, 2009 11:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, hopefully after Jrue gets in the NBA
And doesn’t have to explain why he should be a lottery pick after a subpar freshman year, he will start giving CBH his due. If he doesn’t at that point, I will be angry. At this point, he has to point to something, and he can’t say, Im just not very good or not ready yet.
"when you've seen how big the world is, how can you make due with this?"
by silverlakebruin on May 3, 2009 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Listen all,
DISCLAIMER: The following is speculation on my part, and a hypothesis I have brought together based on a few things that I have observed from last season. I admit I could be totally off base with this, but it’s been nagging me all season.
This is just a gut feeling that I have, but I don’t think Jrue REALLY believes that he doesn’t need to be good at defense to be excellent in the NBA. His not-so-reverent comments towards UCLA may just reflect his experience last season.
Perhaps, and this is purely speculation on my part, that throughout his first season at UCLA, he was getting increasingly discontent with his situation there. Perhaps he felt he was a better pg than Collison yet never got the chance at that position, or perhaps he had more friction with some of the upperclassmen than was revealed to the public eye. I see this as a strong reasoning for his several indirect expressions that he was held back beyond his potential.
As was pointed out throughout the season, Jrue chose to be deferential to the upperclassmen, and I see how that could lead to a bit of resentment towards somebody or anybody, especially for a teenage kid. But Jrue is not a bad kid, and he wants to believe that the chips last year just did not fall his way. In that kind of a situation, I could see why Jrue would not hesitate to “move on” to the NBA, where agents and trainers would woo him with words reaffirming that he has great potential. His comments intimating that he was not the happiest camper at UCLA might just be a result of his holding in his discontentment all season.
I can’t pass any judgment on Jrue as I don’t really know what’s truly going on, but I think the comments he makes like the ones mentioned above are damaging against him if he were to return to UCLA, and still reflects poorly on him if he does not. I hope the best for the kid, but more than that I hope he gains the maturity and great character that Coach emphasizes as more important than just playing ball.
What do you all think?
by bruinbunz on May 3, 2009 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OT
Can I just vomit a little at the phrase “the Lakers’ Adam Morrison?”
FWIW, I bought DVDs of both the UCLA-Gonzaga game (you know the one) and the 1995 National Championship game against Arkansas.
Without taking anything away from the title or the players, the 95 game is not even 1/10th as exciting as the Gonzaga game (not to mention the difference between the announcers for each game). The only interesting things about the title game, in hindsight, are the stellar play of Ed O and Toby Bailey, the expression on Nolan Richardson’s face, and his unbelievably horrendous Dayglo suit. Joe Pesci’s suits in “My Cousin Vinny” were not as bad. Plus, if you watch the 95 game, you occasionally have to see Lorenzo Romar and the Lizard of Westwood. No thanks.
Do yourself a favor and spring for the Gonzaga DVD. It is so great, you’ll wear it out. I literally cannot watch the last minute or so without tears in my eyes.
I know I’m way off OT and I apologize for that.
by Barnes2JJ on May 4, 2009 12:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you ever have to apologize for talking about the Gonzaga game.
And while you’re at it, how about John Barnes to JJ Stokes in the fourth quarter.
What’s the status on the John Barnes movie?
by Fox 71 on May 4, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They didn't offer me enough dough
so I told them I wouldn’t be in the movie until UCLA makes it back to a real bowl game.
Actually, I have no idea. I never hear anything about it except occasionally on BN. But honestly, the fourth quarter watched over and over is good enough for me.
Those were the days.
by Barnes2JJ on May 4, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
his life
to mess up by leaving for the NBA too early.
I hope it works out for him but kid doesnt look ready. even Love and Westbrook wouldve benefited from 1 more year (including draft position) and this kid looks nowhere near the talent those two are.
by 18tillidie on May 4, 2009 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm...what?
Love and Westbrook went 4 and 5 in the draft…and they should have stayed to get drafted, what, 2 and 3? Not a good argument to support your otherwise good point.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on May 4, 2009 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
Both RW and Love had outstanding years. Love probably averaged a rebound every 2 minutes (not bad for a guy who can’t jump) and RW and Durant made a devastating tandem on an otherwise sucky team.
Most players could probably benefit from staying in school but Love and RW would likely not have benefited all that much. They came into the NBA ready to play.
Just sayin’.
by Barnes2JJ on May 4, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a purely
UCLA-centric perspective, Love and Westbrook going 4 & 5 was a fantastic development for our program. Westbrook WAS Ben Howland. He lived, breathed, and showcased Ben Howland’s brand of Basketball every time he stepped on the court, and was as a result rewarded richly for it. This is not the case with JH.
Love was Love. I mean, enough said.
Lastly, Westbrook would not have benefited from another year in terms of his draft position. He had already made his transformation; he was ready. This is not the case with JH.
B.F.
by eubruin on May 4, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don't blame Holiday
Holiday has been playing basketball without pay for years. He obviously loves the game and would continue to play it for years without being paid. Now his “advisors” tell him he’s going to be drafted in slot X and get several millions of dollars for doing what he loves, and his “advisors” also point out that this much money will leave him and his family financially set for life. His “advisors” also point out that he has a fallback position allowed by the rules and which his coach is certain to allow him to exploit. With all that, how can you blame a kid for doing exactly what Holiday is doing?
He might be doing things in ways which support only himself and serve to enhance his perceived value, and we can take issue with that, but the basic decision is one I have to support.
And with all that, I hereby declare a moratorium on Holiday stories until next basketball season, at which time we’ll be talking about either Holiday of the nba or Holiday of the Bruins.
by Fox 71 on May 4, 2009 8:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Belated, But Thank You, Fox
I do not fully understand the animosity towards Jrue. He is doing exactly what he should be doing: weighing his options. He has said nothing detriental about UCLA, Coach Howland, or our team. (I do not care what comments are comng out of his “camp.” If I had a “camp”—and assuming parents and other close relatives are required members of one’s “camp”—I can guarantee I would be mortified at some of the comments coming out of my “camp,” particularly at age 18.)
Coach Howland himself has spoken out more than once against the rule which require the elite high school players to spend a year in college. Jrue had to attend at least one year in school, and he chose he finest school in the nation, with the best coach.
Enough, already. He’s only 18 years old, and he’s handling this as well as can be expected.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 7, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The so-called animousity towards JH stems from a few facts with one of them being he’s taking up valuable time in the recruiting process for us to go out and aggressively pursue an undecided top-notch recruit which is not a whole of at this stage of the recruiting game. Another fact is that he has a false belief you don’t play defense in the NBA and “just have fun” whereas in college “it’s all about defense”. It’s another way of saying he wasn’t having fun at the college level playing defense for a defense-minded program which is what is he’s going to need to do a lot of at the pro level to get minutes or even keep a job there. Why do you think the Shane Battier’s & Bruce Bowen’s have been consistent starters in the NBA.
We understand it is his option to go to the NBA or stay and wish him the best whatever he decides but he’s getting bad advice and getting the wrong idea of how to become successful in his next level of his basketball career which could be potentially ruined. Plus, by a long shot, if he comes back, there’s a good chance he will ruin the team chemistry (like thinking defense isn’t “fun” to do) with what is now perceived to be a me-first attitude.
by Dodger16 on May 8, 2009 12:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Due Respect,
It is disingenuous to hold Jrue responsible for UCLA having to “take up valuable time in the recruiting process.” First, CBH knew Jrue was quite potentially a one-year Bruin when he recruited him in the first place. Second, this scenario is inevitable, frequent, and hardly in Jrue’s control. JS tested the NBA waters last year. Do you think CBH was going to waste his scholarship if he did go? Of course not.
Finally, as far as “ruining the team chemistry,” that is speculative, at best. Jrue has given absolutely no indication of a bad player’s attitude, in either action or deed. Rather than seeing a “me-first attitude,” frequent were the complaints that Jrue was too deferential on the court last season.
I give Coach Howland more credit than this, and he deserves it. He has consistently recruited players of quality and character throughout his career. He recruited Jrue.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 8, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest difference
Between Jrue waiting late and previous NBA draftees waiting late (all have waited until May/June to hire an agent/declare their intentions to stay in the draft except DC-he had already tested the waters, so it was make or break in April) is that with Jrue coming back next year, we have all 13 scholarships filled. So while Jrue may be holding up recruiting time, you have to ask how likely it is that the 13th scholarship player on the roster would end up making a significant impact-including down the road. It’s hard to say-Ben Howland has never had 13 slots full (not including walk-ons using unfilled scholarships) and he usually uses an 8-10 player rotation.
by sjc7522 on May 8, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Circumstances
for which Jrue Holiday is specifically not responsible.
Again, I am certain that Coach Howland contemplated this precise scenario when he recruited this class in the first place. He is not one to be caught flat-footed by a distinct possibility. I trust him.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 8, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The words coming from "his people" are one thing
The recruiting thing doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If Jrue isn’t gone this year, he will likely be after next year. Therefore the only way this really impacts our recruiting is if there’s a Westbrook out there in the 2009 class that’s waiting on Jrue to declare and take the ride for next year. By all indications, that player does not exist. Wall and Stephenson are out there and I see no interest from us in them or vise versa.
by Tydides on May 8, 2009 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ruined Chemistry?
I think the chemistry has been ruined — the chemistry between the fan base and the team. Were I Jure, or members of the team, I’d not appreciate the escalating attacks on Jrue in the blogs.
As to Jrue and his team mates, he was tightly united with his freshmen classmates — as evidenced in the article posted here, during the season.
My fear is not that Jrue decides to come back and can’t mesh with the team. My fear is that he won’t come back because he can’t mesh with the fan base that has attacked him.
sjh
by Class of 66 on May 8, 2009 5:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW -- You don't think the players read BN?
Take a look at the Spaulding Round Up Thread from a couple of days ago where someone named BigDean, who may well be Aundre Dean, posts what appears to be a personal note on the decision he is making.
I suspect that there are a lot of players lurking here and even though my Mom taught me that “sticks and stones might break my bones but words would never harm me” we all know that words do hurt.
sjh
by Class of 66 on May 8, 2009 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Am 100% With My Brother 66.
Many posting here seem, to me, have forgotten the Jrue Holiday that played with our team during the season. A Gatorade National Player of the Year who never acted sullen, pouty, arrogant, or one-dimensional in any way. He was a true sportsman and a team player.
Jrue, if you are reading here, thank you for the class you’ve shown. I will be cheering for you, regardless of your decision. Good luck, young man.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 8, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
I think many here would point to him looking somewhat disinterested at various points during the season, and not showing up in some of our biggest games. So while what you say is true, there have been some other subtle signs (and he has looked sullen at times). I got the impression that he was just biding his time at UCLA while waiting to “have fun” in the NBA, but of course I could be wrong.
Jrue is a bit of a mystery to me at this point. I am not blaming him at all for going through this process, but I do hope that if he is indeed close to his teammates, that he considers returning. If he does return, I hope we see more of the Ben Ball Warrior in him. If he goes to the NBA, best of luck to him.
And 66, if a player can’t take the criticism from a fan base, he has no business going on to play professional sports. Otherwise, I’m pretty sure New York would have no professional teams. Sure, this is only college, but I would say that the criticism he faces here (whether or not it is warranted) will be small pittance compared to what he could face later on. That’s also the price you pay when most of your value is based on hype.
The point is, criticism becomes fair game when you call press conferences, blame your coach’s system for not shining and get compared to Chris Paul. It doesn’t justify personal attacks on a fellow Bruin for trying to make a tough decision, but criticism of his level of play is fair, and disagreeing about it is ok too!
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on May 9, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry 66
You are off on this one. Jrue’s handlers have been attacking our program and our coaches and players in the background. We responded. It’s not us who ruined this relationship. And he is not coming back so the concern about his “chemistry” with us is not a concern.
You are just completely off.
by Nestor on May 9, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Background Attacks'
Nestor,
I trust you when you say there have been background attacks by JH’s “handlers”.
But, I’ve actually looked for them and not found them. I guess they are in places I don’t or can’t go. Not challenging their existence just looking for them.
I’d like to read them because much of my disagreement with the many who post against JH are are based in my belief that they are either misinterpreting the comments or taking them out of context.
I’m solidly with ’83 — lord knows what my parents said about me at different times of my life, or what I have said in support of my daughter — that would mortify me, or her.
I hold JH responsible for what he says, not what those around him say.
For example, I totally disagree with the characterization of the public statements made by Jrue. When taken, in context, they are not critical. I’ve already written about them — and won’t repeat my points, again. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the original statement he made at his press conference — nothing — if you read it and not accept someone’s characterization of it.
I also held back when, in a front page post, someone made a point about CBH sitting there at JH’s press conference — from a sense of duty and not sincere support for his player; the implication was that CBH was being disingenuous which is rather insulting to CBH.
I pointed out that KL and his dad said things similar to what was allegedly said about JH. Although I don’t find the statements to denigrate our program in any way — others disagree. For those who do, however, it is also disingenuous for them to say it is OK for KL to say those things because he had a better first year than JH. One does not earn the right to say bad things about UCLA. If they are bad when JH says them, they are bad when KL says them — and, remember, I don’t think they said anything wrong in the first place.
Finally, the attacks on Jrue have been much more emotional than factual. Talk of being bitter or disappointed at a player whose overall numbers put him in the top 3 in many important categories is not based on performance but rather emotion.
One last thing — I don’t think it fair to say that some of these nasty attacks on JH are appropriate because he is an athlete who will some day be a pro and will be attacked as a pro. He’s a kid, a Bruin and this is not the place or time to call him names. Discuss his stat’s — fine, but don’t challenge his heart.
CBH thought enough of JH to make and keep him a starter. I trust his judgment of JH’s performance more than I trust anyone else’s.
sjh
by Class of 66 on May 9, 2009 2:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
KL/Dad made comments about Howland's offense
and they were nothing out of ordinary. They made comments about how they could thrive in NBA’s offense where more “one on one” is encouraged allowing individual talents to shine through. I didn’t have much problems with that because they came across as standard comments of kids and their family trying to improve their draft status. We saw that from AA and JF’s close ones as well.
However, what KL, AA and JF or their relatives never did was attack other “Ben Ball warriors” on message boards. They always maintained their loyalty to UCLA program.
We are not calling Holiday names. All we are doing is voicing frank opinions on whether we believe he is loyal to Howland, his players and our school. If you don’t appreciate that, tough.
by Nestor on May 9, 2009 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
Stan Love did say that they didn’t “get what they were promised” from CBH. That ruffled some feathers.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 10, 2009 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curious --
Are Bruin fan’s posts the kind of stupid stuff being attributed to JH and his retinue?
Is there any basis to believe that Bruin fan is in any way formally associated with JH so as to be speaking for him?
sjh
by Class of 66 on May 10, 2009 7:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
A Very Valid, Pertinent Question, '66.
And, at the crux of the issue.
Some of this chatter calls for an application of the Hearsay Rule, and some of it is just a high tech version of the old children’s game, “telephone.” I’m waiting for Bruin fan’s remarks to be directly attributed to Jrue, at this point.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 10, 2009 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
That’s a mild version of what we have been seeing all season (from posters who had a track record of being very closely associated to the Holidays). The comments in the premium message boards have been much more vicious (and often direct attacks at DC and JS).
by Nestor on May 10, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But,
Unless they are actually speaking agents for Jrue, making insults and barbs at his specific behest and request, Jrue is not responsible for the content. Unless there is a “I’m Jrue Holiday, and I approve this message” tacked onto the comment, these statements could be from crazy cousin Millie and brain-damaged Uncle Earl. “My brother’s best friend from Jr. High school says…”
How many “handlers” does he have? Who are they, and what is their actual connection to him?
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 10, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bruingirl83
I have been around Bruin online communities for a while. I have been reading various boards since 98. I am pretty confident in by ability to discern posts from people who had had “dinner with three wealthy alums” from posts from people who actually are connected to sources. So I don’t feel I have to answer and give you specific to all of your questions. You can browse through others boards and get a feel for general zeitgist of others communities by yourself.
We haven’t been calling out what has been coming from the Holidays just to stir up a hornet’s nest. We are calling them out because we do think there has been attempts to undermine Howland and other players.
by Nestor on May 10, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I Sense
that I may just have a more literally legal perspective on this situation.
I just can’t “convict” someone for something people that are purported to be his or her friends, family, handlers, camp, close contacts, or “posse” are saying. To me, it seems like a type of McCarthyism, or “13-year-old-girl-ism,” at least. That is just my operating system, I guess.
Sometimes, in my experience, people closest to the person of interest are the least reliable to speak as to their personal truths.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 10, 2009 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We will have to agree to disagree
I am not sure applying legal perspective in this situation is really necessary. All I am doing is reading the tealeaves based on information that I am gleaning from reading reports in the traditional press, new media which includes messages boards, blogs etc. I feel I have a pretty good read on what is going on around this situation based on folks I talk to on a regular basis and also information that I have been tracking for months.
I will trust my instincts on this just like I did during the Dorrell era, when many folks were not happy with the information/perspective we were posting here on BN.
by Nestor on May 10, 2009 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct, N.
You are most certainly entitled to accuse, based upon your experiences and specific knowledge.
As am I, to defend, based upon mine.
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 10, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is even more troubling when
those who are purported handlers, retinue, representatives or spokespeople use pseudonyms on the ’net and not their real names.
That’s why I asked about “Bruin fan” — because if you attribute that dolt to the world of Jrue supporters you are simply making a connection that is neither reliable nor fair.
After all, I can create a name for myself, say DocHoliday, and go spout off nasty stuff about CBH and our program any time I want. In fact, so can any sc fan. How do we know that the naysayers and rabble rousers aren’t trying to make the path back for Jrue more difficult, or trying to create a split in next year’s team?
I’m with you ’83, my basic sense of fairness will not allow me to jump to the conclusion that people whose posts are supposed to speak for Jrue actually are expressing the things Jrue believes or feels.
All I want is one direct quote from Jrue, which when taken in context, is damning — or one quote from his family in their own names, and I’ll step back. But, I’ve seen neither and will continue to disagree with my Brothers and Sisters here who are critical. On this one point, I think they are wrong. And, to paraphrase one of my good friends here, if they don’t like it, “tough”.
sjh
by Class of 66 on May 10, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
'66
We think alike, you and I, and tend to agree on most things. This subject is no exception to that. (And yet, most ironically, we still do not presume to actually speak for each other, and expect others to tacitly know this. Hmmmm.)
We definitely share a sense of what “justice” is, in the broader spectrum. We probably also share a particular horror of the mob mentality. I just keep thinking about The Crucible…
Love My Bruins
by Bruingirl83 on May 10, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is just my operating system, I guess.
Just wanted to say that I like your line. Presumably, channeling your inner geek?
As for me, I’m working through my own various security bugs, spam barrages, and anti-virus updates. Come to think of it, aging is a lot like keeping one’s computer current—you can keep up for a while, but eventually it becomes out of date.
So far, though, knock on wood, no ultimate blue screen of death for me.
by Bruinut on May 13, 2009 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there's your problem, Nestor
You talk about "dinner with three wealthy alums.’ It has to be “three wealthy and influential alumni” before it means anything. (My moratorium on discussing Holiday the Bruin or Holiday the ex-Bruin still holds. This is only explaining to Nestor who to find when he wants the actual, inside scoop on things.)
by Fox 71 on May 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

by 


















