Jrue is Gone? Most Likely

by hicalliber on May 18, 2009 11:19 PM PDT Comment 21 comments

This isn't necessarily official, but Adam Maya of the OC Register is convinced that JH is a top 10 lottery pick...making it incredibly unlikely that JH will be coming back for his sophomore year. As has been discussed before, this is not a surprise at all. While I am no NBA scout, I just don't see what all the fuss is about JH. I loved his passing skills and his defense (sometimes), but he had a terrible jumper and he is not very quick for a PG. I think JH is a good kid, but he has exhibited the behavior of someone who is being puppeted by his "handlers." I also think it's a shame because he could have really blossomed into one of the better college players and secured himself as a true Ben Ball warrior over the next 2-3 years.

I will always think of JH the way I think of Ariza...he is always a Bruin to me, but not a BRUIN. I guess that's the danger you run when you bring in 5 star recruits. But it just makes me appreciate DC that much more...my favorite college player of all time. Period.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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YAJBP?

Yet another Jrue bashing post?

I had hoped we’d seen the last of this genre.

What’s new here? That some Bozo reporter is now convinced JH is a top 10 pick? I don’t care what Maya thinks.

Can’t we just sit back and see what happens?

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 19, 2009 5:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

66 - calm down

This is not a Jrue bashing post.

by Nestor on May 19, 2009 5:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also that "bozo reporter"

was basing his opinion after reading Chad Forde, who is one of the more reputable reporters when it comes to NBA draft. So I don’t see any reason for you to jump on anyone proferring an opinion on Holiday. If you don’t like people being unhappy about Holiday then don’t read it. But don’t attack others for it. Please consider this a warning. Thanks.

by Nestor on May 19, 2009 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any Bruin News...

…is news to me. This is the first I’ve heard of Jrue being projected as a top-10 pick, so I thought it worthy of a fanpost. I’m certainly not a Jrue hater…I think he is a well-rounded basketball player and he seems like an upstanding citizen. But is he worth lottery pick type money for some NBA team? I guess only time will tell. I wish Jrue the best either way.

Go Bruins.

by hicalliber on May 19, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't see that as a bash at all

And I’m usually one of the ones that comes to the defense of JH.

With the draft lottery coming up tonight, I found myself playing around with Chad Ford’s mock draft generator on ESPN.com. According to his projections, based on where the teams are slotted, he has Jrue going as high as #8 and only as low as #11.

If Ford’s picks are accurate, then it’s fair to say that Jrue fans are going to have to settle for wondering what might have been. (Tho the only way “what might have been” would have come to fruition is if Jrue were one year younger and an incoming frosh in 09-10 or if DC had opted to go pro after his junior year.)

by insomniacslounge on May 19, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Bash -- "...but he has exhibited the behavior of someone who is being puppeted by his "handlers."

Calling Jrue a “puppet” is a bash. It is especially inappropriate because no one can directly quote one thing Jrue has said, which when taken in context, denigrates our program or coach.

And, no one has posted what is being said by the so called “handlers” or “friends” or “close to” people. This was but another post that perpetuated the “handler” allegation — without publishing what has been said and identifying by whom.

We have been asked to defer, and not challenge those who have “special” inside information that cannot be shared. We have trusted them — but need not accept anyone’s characterization of that information.

83, in a bunch of very articulate posts, has expressed how some of us feel abut the McCarthy like attacks on Jrue — attacks based on innuendo and unnamed sources.

No one is saying that BN members are not free to attack Jrue. Go at it. But, expect some push back from those of us who do not think the attacks by innuendo are fair.

My response to hicaliber was an expression of my unhappiness with the “puppet” bash.

Nestor points out that those of us who are unhappy about the attacks on Holiday need not read them.

I agree.

And, those of you who are unhappy about some of us pushing back when you post things like this about Jrue, should not read what we post.

We are not trying to censor you and I know you are not trying to censor us. We are all grown up enough to disagree.

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 19, 2009 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I glossed over the "puppet" comment

My mistake. I guess I’m so used to seeing enough posts whose sole purpose is to bash Jrue that if it’s done in only a sentence or two, I overlook it.

I also don’t visit any of the other message boards with regularity, so I don’t know what is going on over there. I do think it’s fairly obvious that when Coach Howland was recruiting Jrue, both parties were under the assumption that Darren Collison was going to leave early and that JH would be running the show and leading a heralded group of freshman. When Darren opted to stay, those plans changed. Personally, I feel from an emotional and team chemistry aspect that Jrue did an admirable job dealing with that change. My guess (and this is just a guess) is that if Jrue had known earlier that DC was sticking around for his senior year, Holiday would have gone elsewhere for his one year showcase in college ball.

Also, I think looking at the big picture- regardless of what is being said in message boards, people should be rooting for Jrue to be drafted high and to have a successful career in the NBA. I’m sure that when a top high school player is deciding where to go he will care much, much more about the fact that UCLA has produced 3 lottery picks -and 5 draft picks overall (assuming DC is drafted but JS is not) in the last two years than he will over what someone’s cousin’s neighbor said in a message board. Even if he didn’t stand out on the court, Jrue’s future success can still pay dividends for UCLA’s program.

by insomniacslounge on May 19, 2009 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

RE-READ MY POST

I did NOT call Jrue a puppet. I only stated that he has exhibited behavior that is very indicative of someone who is being fed information to increase his draft stock. And according to draftexpress.com, they feel the same:

He played a small role on a very slow-paced team, which he’ll like to tell you all about if his recent interviews are any indication.

So, if he has been insinuating such a thing, wouldn’t it be logical that he would be pushed into saying that? Do you really think an 18 year old kid is smart enough to craft that impression on his own? And do you think for one second that he isn’t talking to NBA people at IMG who could possibly be wispering in his ear? Sorry 66, but you need to come back to reality.

I don’t have the time to track down Jrue’s specific quotes because I’m at work. Sorry.

Go Bruins.

by hicalliber on May 20, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re-Read Your Own Post

Sorry Hi, I did re-read your post. In my eyes, you are making this worse.

In your post you say: "he has exhibited the behavior of someone who is being puppeted by his “handlers.”

In your revisionist post above, you say: “I did NOT call Jrue a puppet”. And then you go on to paraphrase, rather than quote, the original post, leaving out the puppet reference: “I only stated that he has exhibited behavior that is very indicative of someone who is being fed information”. Sorry, I think you called him a puppet and I still find that offensive.

Talking about being fed information, you admit that you have not seen anything Jrue has said and can’t take the time to find it. So, I take it you are basing your conclusions on what others, who are not quoting Jrue are saying. This is multi-level unreliable information.

I have taken the time to Google Jrue and I have looked for the actual statements he has made — and I cannot find one that, when taken in context, denigrates the program or CBH.

Were I to say that your attributing to Jrue statements for which you cannot post direct, in context, quotes, was “exhibiting behavior that is very indicative of someone who is being fed information to” denigrate Jrue — would you take offense?

My overall point, and the reason for the initial pushback, is that the long term attacks by innuendo have created a body of unattributed propaganda that is passed on from post to post. I pushed back on your post because it simply mouthed the unsubstantiated mantra about Jrue.

Actually, had you left that out, I would have agreed with most everything else in the post. Do you really think the bash was critical to the post?

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 20, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's all let it go

Yes, he’s a Bruin, and we should support him.

But yes, he’s also 19 and liable to get influenced by people who stand to make a lot of money off of him.

I will say this again, Jrue is 100% right to explore his options, but in my eyes, he has no right to blame his inability to shine (not to perform, we all know he did well for a freshman) on CBH and UCLA’s style of play. I don’t give a rat’s ass if he’s doing it for his career and because there are lots of $$ at play. A freaking modicum of class is needed here, and I’m sick of whiners who blame anyone but themselves and expect a free pass. UCLA/CBH > Jrue, and that’s the end of the story for me.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on May 20, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quotes from the LAT

First off, while I understand that you may think I was bashing Jrue by calling him a puppet…please understand that all athletes are puppets one way or another. Very rarely do they ever speak without first consulting an agent, coach, or friend. The reason for this is so that they don’t say something that will cost them millions of dollars. If it makes you feel better, I will henceforth refer to this practice as “holding court with personal confidants and/or athletic consultants.” It seems as if the specific terminology bothers you more than anything. No one will ever have any proof that a particular athlete is being “handled.” Have you ever heard an athlete say, “Well, the following statement was written for me by my agent…I have no idea what any of this means.” Anyways, I gathered some quotes:

1. This shows Jrue’s frustration with playing out of position:

The most frustrating part for me was not getting as many touches as I thought I would," Holiday said. “There were times when I’d be like, I’d love to be in Darren’s position.”

2. This proves that he is holding court with confidants…an obviously common and understandable practice referenced above (bold is me):

In the meantime, Holiday hopes to gather valuable information from his NBA workouts and from his parents, Shawn and Toya, former college players who have been talking with acquaintances in the league. “They have really been doing their homework,” Holiday said. “I’m really just trusting them.”

3. This insinuates that CBH wouldn’t let Jrue be Jrue:

In college, it’s all about defense," he said. The NBA “seems like it’s more fun. You can be you.”

I know this has been hashed and re-hashed…but I think Jrue’s words were carefully choreographed from the outside. You are welcome to disagree. But I still hope he’s drafted very high and has a sparkling career in the NBPay.

Go Bruins.

by hicalliber on May 20, 2009 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

100% agree

Hi, I completely agree with you.

by Bellerophon on May 21, 2009 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

When Read in Context, Nothing in Those Quotes Denigrates UCLA or CBH

When read in context, and read for what they say, and not what a BN poster reads into them, not one of those quotes is negative about UCLA or CBH.

Those quotes are old news and have been the subject of push back by many of us who think Jrue is getting a raw deal around here. I’ll not spend much time on them, but:

1. The “touches” issue: That is the exact same issue raised by KL and Stan Love — pre-draft, and no one bashed either of them.

All Jrue says is that he wishes he had more touches and that he’d have loved to be in Darren’s position. There is nothing negative about the quote. He doesn’t say he was wronged or that he should have been the point guard. (And, BTW — all season long, some of the most vocal BNers were constantly suggesting he should be the PG.) Jrue handled the issue well.

You know who seems to agree with JH?

His coach, CBH. In the very same article from which this quote is lifted, is another from CBH that puts the tone of JH’s words into context.

“Obviously when he has the ball in his hands more, it’s going to be even better for him,” Howland said Thursday

Certainly none of you are going to charge CBH’s integrity in making that statement, are you?

2. “Holding court with his confidants”, oh how sinister.

Just who are these “confidants”? Sinister dark forces?

Uh, no, his parents. Yes, his parents. We have a teenager who is discussing his future with his parents, and their friends. Wow, that is damning.

Who else did this? KL. He turned to his dad, Stan Love, and their friends in the league for advice.

How in the world does this quote denigrate UCLA or our coach?

3. And, then there is the “seems like more fun quote” which in no way denigrates the program UNLESS you read more into it than is in that quote, or is in the entire article.

The key to the argument the bashers have been making can be seen in your statement “This insinuates that CBH wouldn’t let Jrue be Jrue.” Sorry, but that says more about the bashers than about Jrue.

The quote does not say that he did not have fun. It does not complain about CBH. It does not say that he won’t play defense in the NBA.

You all read that into the quote — and then bash him for your interpretation, instead of what he said.

To many of us his quote reminds us of the things we do, every day. Some are more fun than others. But we do them to the best of our ability and without complaint — as Jrue did all season long. He was deferential to a fault. Constantly respectful.

Yes, this topic should have been over long ago. But, so long as some of us perceive that a Bruin brother is the subject of cheap shots, we will stand up and defend him.

To date, no one has posted one direct quote from Jrue that when taken in context casts UCLA or CBH in a negative manner. I don’t want paraphrases. I don’t want interpretations. I want direct quotes. And, when I get them I’ll shut up.

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 21, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My last response (maybe, haha)

1. I happen to take offense that Jrue wanted more touches. Who is he to ask for that (publicly)? It is CBH’s decision and Jrue put him on the spot by saying that. I doubt that CBH is going to throw Jrue under the bus…besides, CBH knows full well that the 1 is Jrue’s more natural position. He asked Jrue to play the 2 for the TEAM…because he was the best guy for the position. I simply got the feeling that Jrue was making excuses for his (somewhat) poor play at the 2.

An analogy that I will use can be understood by anyone who has worked in a corporate environment. What if I were to send an e-mail to my entire office proclaiming that I am not well suited to my current job as a “copy boy”…that perhaps my boss was mistaken and that I should be doing John Doe’s job as a sales manager? And then what if I said that I really liked John Doe’s sales manager job better than my own? I’ll tell you what…my boss would chew my ass out for saying something like that.

2. You are missing the point here. I am trying to say that Jrue is taking advice from other people. Period. It doesn’t matter that they are his parents or friends…they think they know what’s best for him and will therefore give him advice on what to do or say to secure him the most money. That’s all fine and dandy, but most parents don’t give a damn about “the program,” as their priority is the welfare of their children. This is understandable, but at times it can result in casting a program in a bad light for the benefit of their son. So, to answer your question…this QUOTE does not denigrate UCLA in any way (nor did I imply that). But Jrue’s actions have shown that he is concerned more about his draft position than the state of UCLA’s basketball program after he leaves. I won’t even go into the deal about not signing with an agent…Nestor has covered that well enough.

3. This quote is certainly up for interpretation, so you are entitled to your opinion. But consider my logic: Jrue said that the NBA seems more fun…perhaps meaning that college ball isn’t fun? Defense isn’t fun? CBH preaches defense…so CBH doesn’t allow him to have fun (ie scoring more)?

The fact of the matter here is this: whatever anyone says is ALWAYS open to interpretation…as are their actions. This is the crux of human conflict. Wars have been started based on common misunderstandings. The fact that you are arguing with me over my interpretation of Jrue’s words and actions seems kind of ridiculous. My original post was meant to draw attention to an article saying that Jrue is projected as a top 10 pick. I thought I would throw in my general opinion about Jrue as an addendum (not intending to bash the kid) and a commentary on his draft stock and the way he is leaving UCLA. Is it possible that Jrue has meant no harm to our program? Yes. But I feel that he HAS caused harm to our program regardless of intention.

Go Bruins.

by hicalliber on May 21, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who is Jrue to ask for more touches?

It’s His Highness, Mr. Gatorade Player of The Year.

by Nestor on May 22, 2009 5:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, Coach Howland

…who is openly critical of the NBA’s one year rule, to begin with.

He is the voice of reason in this absurd firestorm, and he is in the very best position to judge and comment. He certainly knows Jrue better than any of us do, and he is completely supportive of this young man who is trying to make the most important decision of his life.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on May 22, 2009 7:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But for my self-imposed moratorium on Holiday comments, I would agree with the last two lines of SJH's post.

by Fox 71 on May 19, 2009 6:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Here, Here, '71.

Likewise.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on May 19, 2009 7:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll never get tired of giving or hearing words of praise towards DC.

He deserves it all.

by BruinDrums on May 19, 2009 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One we'll all agree on...

is the last full line of hicaliber’s post.

In light of the high school stars coming to UCLA for 1 or 2 years and taking advantage of a shot at the NBA, you gotta appreciate and respect and love Darren Collison all the more for what he passed up to stay at our school for one more year.

greg in denver - UCLA guy for life

by gbruin on May 19, 2009 7:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally, I can't wait

for this draft stuff to be over, JH to be officially gone, and for the Bruins to start building on this coming season with the players we have. I really feel that this will be a win-win situation, since JH will get what he wants (a quick exit from college into the pros) and we will get what we need (a team with some stability and, God help us, longevity upon which to build). It’s the best scenario for JA and ML, and those guys are the ones who’ll need the PT come the fall.

I am still amazed at how high JH is projected considering his mediocre performance this past season, but the draft has its own logic, I suppose. Ultimately, as I said, I think it’s all for the best.

by daggy on May 19, 2009 10:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs