Reflections on Jrue Holiday's Press Conference
by Achilles on May 4, 2009 4:00 AM PDT
in Basketball
49 comments
Something is bothering me about the Jrue Holiday press conference. As in:
Why did he have a press conference?
What’s bothering me is that his performance as a UCLA Bruin wasn’t worthy of a press conference. This is different than debating whether or not he should go to the pros. I frankly don’t know if he should go to the pros. I’m not an NBA coach, general manager or scout. I lack any knowledge of his personal financial situation. I haven’t seen his report card. For all I know, he has to go pro. But the press conference bothers me. It bothers me because it feels as if it is symptomatic of a larger reality. The reality is: Jrue Holiday was always going pro after one year at UCLA. I supposed he was also suppose to average double digits in points, lead to a fourth straight Pac 10 title and help it advance past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. What we’re seeing now is the fulfillment of a plan/dream that was laid out a long time ago:
- Press conference to announce for college of choice
- One outstanding college season
- Press conference to announce that “I’m ready for the pros.”
And clearly the absence of anything “outstanding” is not going to knock the Jrue Holiday Express off its tracks.
This will not be a popular comparison among UCLA fans, but I have to point it out USC’s Mark Sanchez deserved a press conference. Jrue Holiday did not. Sanchez led the Trojans to a 12-1 season. His performance was stellar; he became a prominent figure whose future plans were clearly press conference worthy. Holiday on the other hand had a (and I’m being a little generous here) good first season. His performance as a freshman would have been recalled as “perfectly fine” if he played at UCLA for a couple of more seasons, his number and the team’s record improving every year. Since they’re going to be his only stat line for college it’s for certain no one will ever recall his “great college career.”
Holiday’s press conference, on the other hand, should be recalled as, well I was going to say arrogant, but that’s not it. I think it’s more accurate to say that it will be recalled as somehow perfunctory, more of a had to do than a deserved to do. Press conferences called to announce transitions, whether they are for a pro retiring, a high school player committing or a college player moving on. This press conference was symptomatic of a Holiday world view that seems disconnected from the objective reality. The press conference – previously reserved for players whose performance earned a press conference – suggests an “I’m a star … people care what I think, say and do … I’m going to enjoy sitting here in the hot TV lights talking into microphones despite the fact that my play on the court doesn’t warrant this” attitude.
What was worse was that Head Coach Ben Howland was forced to sit there and squirm and participate. Howland at the press conference had to wish Holiday well and call him a “pro” in what looked like an award-winning acting performance. Say what you will about Pete Carroll’s behavior at Sanchez’ press conference, and I’ll say he acted like a jerk, at least maybe he was speaking his mind honestly – albeit self-servingly. (And, yes, I might have just invented an adverb.)
Let’s be real honest for a moment. Does anyone really believe there is any chance at all that Holiday returns to UCLA if he has any chance at all of getting drafted, as opposed to the mythical “first round guarantee?” I don’t. The reason Holiday hasn't hired an agent yet is because he is protecting himself from a catastrophic situation ala Brandon Rush from Kansas. If he doesn’t get hurt, he’s staying in the draft.
What’s bothering me, in the end, is the charade. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Jrue Holiday fulfilling a lifelong dream and becoming a professional basketball player. I actually really like his game and would love for him to return to UCLA as point guard next season. I think there is absolutely nothing to suggest that last season was nothing less than a decent freshman season of a player with a lot of potential who had to make a lot of adjustments to college play and a trio of older, more successful teammates. It would be more than perfectly fine with me (shoot, I’d love it) if next season was the year when Jrue Holiday transitioned from tentative freshman to super sophomore. It’s just that it’s never going to happen. Barring the unspeakable, Holiday is going to go pro. And there’s something about the cliché, something about the inevitability of it, that’s bothering me.
Holiday’s press conference was just another item on his I'll-be-a-pro soon checklist. He called it not because he had to have one, but because from his point of view, that’s what you do. The will he or won’t he agent dance is just an extension of the same predictable series of events. Just watch, Holiday will take his decision right down to the wire and when he announces he’s staying in the draft he’ll maintain that he “didn’t make up my mind until the last minute.” I get bonus points if he makes any allusions to prayer in the final announcement.
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Strong post A
Agree with everything you wrote. The only point I diverge on is whether or not I want him back. I think if he and his people had gone about “testing the waters” business in an intelligent and humble way, then I would have had no problem welcoming him back.
However, at this point I think the circus his people have created will not be missed by the kids who are on our team. I don’t believe kids are going to care too much for a player with a “me first” “I am going to get mine right now even if I haven’t done much to prove myself” attitude. They can read and hear things as well.
I am just praying he stays healthy, gets drafted in the top-15 or whatever, and we can just move on. I am not going to remember much about this kid after he is gone.
by Nestor on May 4, 2009 4:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Also I should mention
I particularly agree with the comparison to Mark Sanchez. It pains me to admit it but you nailed it.
by Nestor on May 4, 2009 4:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could not be any more wrong
Holiday is not the one creating press conferences, its the media and UCLA. People have a interest and that is why its being covered. If you really understood the kid which most of us do not, you would know him to be a private kid that really does not like the lime light.
History will judged how he was not utlilized correctly as a bruin his freshman year. truth be told after the workouts Holiday could end up in the lottery.
by Bruin fan on May 4, 2009 5:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoever drafts Holiday
will soon discover what many of us here already know: He’s just not as good as advertised. And please spare me the “he played out of position” argument. Great players find a way to flourish no matter where you put them.
JH never bought into Ben Howland’s defense-oriented, hard-nosed approach. That’s how his short stint at UCLA will be judged historically.
by godblesstyus95 on May 4, 2009 5:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it depends
on how hard JH is willing to work once he’s in the NBA. Maybe once he realizes that defense actually is important in the league then he’ll commit himself to it. If he does, I think he’ll be a standout pro. As a GM, personally I would draft him in the 10-15 range if he fit my team’s needs.
However, the “playing out of position” argument actually has some credibility. I’m not blaming CBH – it’s what I would’ve done too. But Jrue is a playmaker first and a scorer second, and as the SG he was forced into more of a scorer’s role. Granted, I’m surprised he didn’t adapt to the role better. But if I’m drafting a player to be my franchise point guard, I’m not going to care too much how well he played the SG in college.
The defense is another story though. Hopefully the light comes on for him and he works on THAT side of his game. Because he should’ve defended better no matter what position he played
by bucknellbruin on May 4, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure,
some GM will roll the dice and take him in the 10-15 range, based on his performance in high school, his physical attributes, and perhaps his workouts, all of which comes down to “potential”. Yet, as you say, during his NBA audition year at UCLA, he clearly didn’t embrace BHs defensive philosophy, and didn’t seem to have the basketball acumen to adapt to his position and flourish. I believe this is what makes Jrue far from a sure thing in the NBA, yet if you are drafting in the 10-15 spot or later, I guess you don’t need to get a sure thing.
The 2 best young point guards in the NBA, Chris Paul and Deron Williams, spent 2 and 3 years in college, respectively, learning their position and readying themselves for the NBA. They were high lottery picks, went to bad teams and thus were able to step in right away, get valuable playing time and become what they are today. Jrue will likely go to a decent team and therefore have a lot less playing time, thereby further stunting his learning of the position (apparently the only position he is suited to play, mind you) and will likely become the next Sebastian Telfair.
Lets come back and discuss Jrue Holiday in 5 years and see if I am right.
by godblesstyus95 on May 4, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying your wrong
I’m just saying IF Holiday realizes that defense matters in the NBA, he has a chance to be really really good. But he may not realize it, or not realize it in time. Then he very well might flame out.
by bucknellbruin on May 4, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not utilized correctly
This is such a cop out. Do you mean to say that the starting point guard role should have been handed to an unproven freshman coming to a team with a senior pt guard who’s been to three final fours? Or that his role should have been to provide limited minutes as backup point guard? Perhaps this would be the case if CBH’s objective for the season was to feature a freshman for the purpose of showcasing his talents in order that his draft stock rise, at the expense of any team goals.
As it turned out, he was given the opportunity to be a starter, and by about any objective analysis he did fine, but was not consistent and only rarely did he perform exceedingly well.
Furthermore, would it not then make perfect sense for him to stay in school for at least an additional year, when the objective of Jrue having the opportunity to play significant minutes at point guard will align with team composition?
by haywood nighttrain on May 4, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So his reasoning isn't great
But I think this is a decent point:
Holiday is not the one creating press conferences, its the media and UCLA. People have a interest and that is why its being covered.When underclassmen declare, they have a press conference. I don’t know if it’s right or wrong or whatever, but that seems to be how things go. Whether or not they’ve played well enough to “merit” a press conference, they get one. Westbrook, Love and Luc had one last year. Afflalo had one in 2007. Afflalo and Farmar had one in 2006. Even Ariza had one in 2004 (I couldn’t find a link to a video, so I hope multiple links will suffice as evidence). It’s not necessarily clear who called each press conference, but they did happen. It seems pretty standard protocol in recent UCLA history for there to be a press conference when an underclassman declares early.
Even if the player wasn’t fantastic (Ariza), or likely wouldn’t be drafted highly (Afflalo in 2006), it’s an interesting and important story that they’re declaring for the NBA. And with that story comes a press conference.
by jaffa on May 4, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AA and JF deserved to have press conferences
AA took the team two Final-4s (winning 2 pac-10 titles. JF took us to 1 essentially helping Howland lay down the foundations of current program. They DESERVED press conferences. They DESERVED the accolades. They bought into the concept of “Ben Ball warriors.” We started using the term based on the way they played basketball. Holiday has done nothing close to what AA and JF did during their times at UCLA. To compare Holiday to those guys is kind of an insult to their legacy at UCLA.
As for Ariza no one really cares. Just like no one will really care much about Holiday few years from now on BN.
by Nestor on May 4, 2009 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he's had the same impact as those two
I don’t think he’s anywhere near the basketball player they are. Without a doubt, they did deserve the press conference. I was merely trying to point out that just about everyone before Holiday also had a press conference. I included Farmar and Afflalo not because they were on the same playing and impact level, but just because they had also left early. My comparison was only in that all three players left early and had a press conference. Not so much “they had one, so he should have one too” but “they had one”, as I was drawing the picture that just about everyone (you got me on Shipp) had had a press conference.
Ariza is the more relevant comparison to Holiday. He wasn’t a world beater as a freshman, and had little impact on the program. But he still had a press conference. He didn’t do anywhere near the same as Farmar and Afflalo would end up doing, but he still got one. If we’re harping on Holiday for having a press conference to announce something, shouldn’t we be harping on Ariza too? Holiday’s been at least as good as Ariza, had similar impact, so shouldn’t he get the same treatment? Maybe it was wrong for Ariza. But it did happen. Nobody really cares about him today as a Bruin. And I’m not saying anybody will care about Holiday in a few years as a Bruin. But is there really something wrong about giving them (Ariza and Holiday) the same treatment?
by jaffa on May 4, 2009 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhm we weren't around here when Ariza went pro
I feel pretty confident that we wouldn’t treat Ariza the same way we treated JF and AA. JF/AA meant something to our program.
Ariza (just like Jrue) was just stopping by. So the comparison of Jrue to JF/AA are ridiculous.
by Nestor on May 5, 2009 4:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any comparisons to Farmar and Afflalo are only that they all declared for the draft early, and all had a press conference
Farmar and Afflalo weren’t just stopping by, and they had very nice, deserved, press conferences, and have been appropriately hailed as great players and as foundations of the program. I’m not disputing that.
But Ariza and Holiday (most likely) were just stopping by, and played similarly well. So they should get the same treatment as each other from the program. Maybe it’s wrong that it’s the same treatment as Farmar and Afflalo got in terms of press conferences. But as I see it, Holiday deserves at least the same treatment as Ariza from the program, no matter what we say or didn’t exist to say. And that’s what the program gave him with the press conference.
by jaffa on May 5, 2009 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure what exactly you are arguing
I specifically stated JF and AA are very different from Ariza/Holiday. JF and AA’s career at UCLA meant something. Their careers were worthy of press conferences. They deserved the attention. Their stays at UCLA were newsworthy as recent Bruin greats.
In contrast neither Ariza nor Holiday deserverd that attention after barely above average freshmen campaign. The hype around Holiday is just silly and not proportional to what he actually did on the court at UCLA. It wasn’t worthy of a presser at UCLA.
If BN was around when Ariza has his “presser,” we would have made the same observation. We have never shied away from offering our opinions even when it’s not popular with others. I am sure we would have done the same back then.
But your argument that Holiday deserves a presser because we did the same for AA/JF is just off base because Holiday is similarly situated as JF or AA. Those two were original Ben Ball warriors. As we have pointed out already Holiday hasn’t shown much to date meriting him the title of a “Ben Ball warrior.” So stop confusing yourself.
by Nestor on May 5, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument is that there is nothing wrong with Holiday's press conference because it is the standard thing to do.
There are then a few groups during Howland’s tenure to compare him too. Farmar and Afflalo are one of those groups. They’re pretty much the top class group, with what they meant to the program. They aren’t who Holiday should be compared to, and I only intended them as a sort of baseline inclusion in “everybody has a press conference”. They aren’t my point.
In the lowest group then would be Ariza and Holiday. Neither accomplished much in their first year, and both declared. But Ariza was still allowed that press conference. Even though there were more impressive and important groups later, that initial press conference has set a kind of standard, even if it’s a low one. I’m inclined to agree with you on the idea that Ariza shouldn’t really have had a press conference in the first place. But he did have one. And with that standard set, Holiday deserves one as well.
In a vacuum, Holiday’s press conference is debatable. But there is recent precedent for a player of his stature to have one, so it’s only fair for him to have one.
by jaffa on May 5, 2009 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your argument pointing to a "standard" is weak
When all you have to stand on is to point to the Ariza example.
As we noted in the thread below JS didn’t call a press conference. JS had a UCLA career at this point last year that was lot more newsworthy and notable than what Holiday has done to date. Yet JS had a decency not to make a big show and have a big press conference when he decided to “test waters.” He knew that it would be a little silly for him to call a press conference given he was not in the same place as someone like DC, KL, RW or even LRMAM from last year.
Just because Ariza called a press conference once doesn’t make it SOP for UCLA to stage one for Holiday. He didn’t have to have one but basically he and people called for one in which Howland had to sit and squirm through. If Holidays were considerate they wouldn’t put Howland through that.
Moreover, if you want to play the “standard” card we can go back to when I was a student at UCLA back in the 90s. Back then there were some athletes who left school for the pros early. Tracy Murray and Tommy Maddox come to mind. Both of them had press conference because they were big deals and made substantial impact in their Bruin careers unlike Jrue Holiday. They deserved press conferences.
However, at the same time there was a promising safety named Othello Anderson who decided to leave early for to enter the NFL draft. IIRC Othello didn’t call for an elaborate press conference unlike Holiday (or Ariza).
So this “standard” you refer to is not well established and is kind of a joke and we are calling out out as a joke here on BN.
by Nestor on May 5, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll try to address those points
On Shipp: I think that says more about him and his decision than it does about Holiday and his decision. His quotes at the time suggest Shipp really was just testing the waters, and Holiday looks like he probably isn’t. It probably would have been wasting people’s time for Shipp to call a press conference. For Holiday (and the other guys last year, and Farmar, and Afflalo, and Ariza) staying in the draft appeared much more likely, and so the press conference also served as a form of goodbye. And as I’ve said before, I think it’s the decent thing to do to treat Holiday at least as well as Ariza.
On Murray and Maddox and Anderson: I wasn’t around then, so I can’t comment on their relative importance, or who all had a press conference. That said, the policy or procedure for Howland’s basketball teams can easily be different from the policy for two different sports ten or so years before he arrived. Just because their coaches or administration or family handled their declaration one way shouldn’t necessarily mean a whole lot to how Howland decides to handle his players. That’s what I meant by “recent” — Howland-era. The precedent or standard I meant to refer to was the one that appeared to be established under Howland: players departing early can have a press conference with the coach.
Not enough evidence: There isn’t a whole lot of hard evidence (for either side) by the nature of the argument. Ariza is the only clear-cut case that supports my view. I think I’ve explained how Shipp, Murray and Maddox don’t contradict my view.
It’s true that just because Ariza had a press conference doesn’t mean there’s a standard operating procedure in Howland’s program. But when you combine that with the fact that there has been a press conference for each other player who left early, that, to me, leads to a suspicion that there is one.
The success of Farmar, Afflalo and the others means that a press conference is deserved under your model of earning one. But it doesn’t mean that my model of a standard is impossible, either. We haven’t had a lot of players leave without a lot of success recently, because we’ve been really successful. This is really only our second glimpse of how players leave without making the Final Four.
Maybe it’s a little strong to say that we have a “standard operating procedure”. But at the very least, there is a precedent of someone with similar stature in Howland’s program getting this treatment. Ariza is the same coach and program as Holiday is being handled by, so we might expect some consistency.
by jaffa on May 5, 2009 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the thoughtful response jaffa
I appreciate the way you broke it down. However, the precedent that you keep referring to is just based on example (Trevor Ariza). What we are saying is that this practice is kind of ridiculous and a charade. We would have called it out as such if we were around back then. You can bet that what we are doing right now is taken into account by Holiday’s PR folks and also other folks around UCLA.
This will make people think twice if they want to put on such elaborate dog and pony show press conferences, before doing anything that justifies such attention. I think this program will take note of the fact that all UCLA alums/students are not going to just sit back and let a charade happen from now on. Times have changed and whoever wants to justify this based on a weak precedence (of a practice that doesn’t really have a reasonable basis) will think twice in the future.
by Nestor on May 6, 2009 4:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Jrue
You’re just boring to me at this point. I’m not interested in guys trying to make it in the nba. I’m interested in Bruins, not ex-Bruins. Good luck and good bye.
by Fox 71 on May 4, 2009 6:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank You, Fox
Jrue can join JaRon Rush . . . another guy who didn’t live up to the hype, left early, and was never seen again.
by charnaw on May 4, 2009 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno.
JaRon Rush had some stellar games while at UCLA. I remember the upset of Maryland in the tournament as a particularly great game for him. I can’t remember any real breakout performances for Jrue this last year. And certainly not in the tournament, where NBA futures are made. (see: Dwayne Wade)
A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden
by MexiBruin on May 4, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the thing
jaron rush had nba talent, just like jrue right now. jaron’s undoing was on account of the other things dragging him down in his life, drinking, drugs, depression, and who knows what else that led him to do such strange things and basically blow his career. jrue on the other hand, comes from a stable home and hasn’t done anything to make me think he has the issues jaron had.
jaron entered the draft without consulting anyone and left the program in an abrupt and confused manner. jrue is doing the exact opposite and consulting all sources on the issue, in other words being smart about it. and where jaron wasnt drafted, jrue is looking at something in the 1st round.
there is no comparison between jaron rush and jrue holiday.
Across The Face
by rb bruin on May 4, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ben's big mistake....
was starting this guy from the get-go. I see a future in the developmental league with a cup of coffee in the NBA. Good luck young man.
by afartbruin on May 4, 2009 8:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow this press conference sounds brutal
Does anyone have a link of it uploaded somewhere?
by bruinhopeful on May 4, 2009 9:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Two words
Sebastian Telfair ……
plus 1 year of uni at UCLA.
too many of these kids either don’t go to school or are one-and-done … should go/stay and develop fully but … especially this net-gen … gotta have everything right now! you can you know. just click a mouse or push a remi-control button or hell why have a real life at all why not just play it out on Wii?
by 18tillidie on May 4, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know...
A few million dollars, guaranteed, as long as he’s picked in the first round? That’s pretty hard to pass up.
Many people would take the money and go to school later. It’s on the job training while being compensated handsomely. As long as GM’s are willing to draft on potential, then this will keep going on.
by freesia39 on May 4, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't pass up the rookie scale
Especially when the CBA may be cancelled out (meaning worse terms later). Take the money if it’s there.
by bruinhopeful on May 4, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could be wrong
but I don’t think all of this criticism is warranted. Yes, he’s made some comments that I can’t agree with, but as far as criticizing him for holding a press conference, that I can’t do. If someone offered me millions of dollars to go fulfill my lifelong dream, and then added that the same offer might not be around next year, I’d be crazy to pass it up. I do wish that he’d been better while he was here, and I do wish that he’d show more respect to our coach and program, but holding a press conference and leaving? Not a big deal in my book. We all knew from the day he committed to UCLA that he’d be a one and done.
The real problem here is that the NBA and NCAA allow players to be one and done. Like CBH, I’d definitely prefer to see a system closer to baseball’s. It would be better for the fans, the NCAA, individual schools, and the athletes themselves.
by Class of 09 on May 4, 2009 6:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not all his doing
While I don’t agree with Jrue jumping, if he is going to go in the top 15, there’s not a lot of reason to stay. Yes he’ll improve, but his draft position doesn’t have much room to improve. And the downside is immense. If he comes back he’s a knee or ankle injury away from losing a lot of cash. It’s a risk/reward scenario: a lot of risk not not much reward.
As for the press conference, that’s just SOP, it’s not his fault. It’s like the high school kids and the table with the hats, it’s just what you do if you’re hyped and jumping to the pros. Jrue has said some questionable things, but he’s 19. And who knows how he’s being advised. If everyone in your circle is telling you one thing, you tend to go along with it.
I can’t compare Jrue to Ariza however. Ariza was in a program that was being run into the ground by a coach who never improved talent. Maybe he knew he needed to get to the NBA to improve. It’s worked out ok for him.
by redwhiteandbruin on May 4, 2009 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ariza was in the program Howland's first year
and just like Jrue he didn’t care all that much about playing defense.
by Nestor on May 5, 2009 4:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My mistake
I was thinking he was the year before
by redwhiteandbruin on May 5, 2009 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you 09 all the way.
Some of these people just need to stop their complaining and crying.
by kyl57es on May 4, 2009 8:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Finally!
Some voices of reason appear at the end of the thread. Completely agree with 09 and red. As everybody seems to be saying nowadays, “It is what it is.” All the uproar has a hint of sour grapes about it.
by kballs on May 5, 2009 4:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You've got it wrong
If you don’t understand how comments and actions like Jrue’s affect the UCLA basketball program, then I’m afraid you don’t get it.
It’s not about complaining and crying. I couldn’t care less if we are “blessed” by Jrue’s return or whether or not he had a good freshman year. What I care about is how his comments reflect on the program that Ben Howland has resurrected and brought back to the elite. And when I feel that those comments are out of line, you’d better believe that you’ll hear me (and others) raise our voice (even if it’s on the internet).
The program is bigger than any single player, and anyone who tries to use it just to get ahead only to disparage it when things don’t work out is not ok in my book.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on May 5, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
scapegoat?
i think someone may have alluded in a different post, it seems as though many of our bruin faithful are taking out the frustrations of a mediocre season (to some) on a kid who is taking his time and keeping his options open in regards to THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION OF HIS LIFE. what if, all things being equal, we had won a NC? what if jrue had played to the exact same level and the team was successful? seems like we are alienating one of our very own during an important period in his life. doesn’t seem right to me.
by co2001 on May 5, 2009 5:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
LOL
yeah Holiday is keeping his options “open”
That is as convincing as when we hear Lavin’s name thrown around with the first batch of candidates whenever a job opens up. Holiday is keeping his options “open.” rofl.
by Nestor on May 5, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree, Nestor
I suppose there’s a condition. If Holiday has absolutely, positively made the decision to go into the draft, then he should say so. But if he has any lingering doubt (or probably better said as if his handlers have any lingering doubt), they would be foolish not to leave themselves a fall-back position. This is perfectly allowed by the rules under which Holiday and Coach Howland operate.
I know many people disagree with what is being said by Holiday and his handlers, and I am neither able nor willing to defend any of those statements. But even though I disagree with what is being said, by the Holiday camp, I understand and sympathize with the actions which are being taken.
I don’t suppose we will ever know whether at this moment Holiday has definitely, absolutely positively decided to go pro. I know that many have formed that conclusion for valid reasons. I haven’t arrived (yet) at that conclusion.
(And here I am violating my own self-imposed moratorium on further Holiday comments. OK, I’m starting over again – no more Holiday comments until he makes things official.)
by Fox 71 on May 5, 2009 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fallback position is for injury. If he gets hurt before the draft he needs the extra year in college to prove he’s over the injury.
It’s not right, but it’s the system we’ve got. They need to either go back to college not being a feeder system for the NBA and letting people jump to the NBA from high school or use a rule like baseball, either go pro from high school or spend a few years in college. It’s not Jrue’s fault that the system sucks.
by redwhiteandbruin on May 5, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have respected the Holidays
If they came out and were honest about their intentions saying they have made their minds up and entering the draft and the main reason they haven’t signed an agent is because they want protect Jrue from injuries. They haven’t said anything like that instead trying to give the impression as if he is really “testing the waters” (unlike DC, JS, LRMAM and even RW who were legitimately keeping their options somewhat open). Jrue and his handlers are being insincere in this case.
by Nestor on May 6, 2009 4:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know you think he's gone
but just say, for the sake of argument, that Jrue isn’t impressive in his workouts and is projected as a mid-late first rounder (17/18 or higher) or worse. He said that he was staying in the draft if he got a lottery guarantee. Well that’s not a lottery pick – so what he decides to return?
I agree with you 100% that the press conference was a mistake and the whole thing was over the top; he should have just announced he was entering the draft via statement, as JS and many others have done. I also agree that his camp has done/said things that haven’t been the smartest decisions or put didn’t but CBH and the program in the best light. But I (and I know you disagree) truly believe that if Jrue isn’t projected as a lottery pick he will consider returning.
Everyone (including Jrue, most likely) seemed sure that he would rise into the lottery – but that’s the problem. RISE into the lottery – because of his workouts. So if those don’t go well, then he may be left as a late first rounder. I think that’s the reason he hasn’t signed an agent yet. To protect himself, yes. But not only from injury; from a poor showing at the NBA camps as well.
I agree with you that he fully intended to remain in the draft when he declared, but I disagree about the fact that he had/has no intention of returning to UCLA. I think he always would have returned if he struggled, he just doesn’t expect it to happen (and it might not happen).
So this is my question: If by chance Jrue struggles in his workouts – not because of injury – and decides to return, how would you feel about him/his situation?
by bucknellbruin on May 6, 2009 5:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe he is coming back
even if he is projected to be a late first round. I could be wrong but we will see.
If he comes back I hope Coach Howland is clear with him that he will have to “earn” his minutes by playing defense and not get a free ride at the pg. The mistake Howland made this past season was not benching him enough when he was clearly lollygagging on defense. He should have been benched following Washington State and Howland should have gone with ML.
by Nestor on May 6, 2009 6:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The system
Long time reader – first time poster. Let me start by saying: Nestor, I deeply appreciate and admire all you do for this blog and the Bruin community – as well as your passion and insights. But in this case – I think you’re being too hard on this kid. As Class of 09 and others mention above, it’s the system that’s rotten (allowing this one and done BS) and it’s very difficult for any of us who have never been in his position to say what he is doing is right or wrong. And don’t forget he is 18 for crying out loud – and literally 1/4 or more of his life has revolved around getting to the NBA – surrounded by all kinds of influences we could not begin to comprehend. I know I made some decisions that were pretty suspect when I was his age and for a lot less (I’ll spare you the details). Anyway, of course he’s playing “the game”. The advice he is getting is to keep his options open and do what everyone else does. I, for one, would love to have him back playing the point. And if/when not, what the hell did he ever do for us anyway?
by NoCal on May 6, 2009 9:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You and others don't get it
I for one have no problem with him using his options. None at all. He’s playing within the rules and any one of us would be doing the same thing.
It’s the things he and his entourage are saying that bother me. Saying that Howland’s system “held him back” without once taking responsibility for himself is just plain infuriating. We all know he has the skills, but this is just stupid. And it doesn’t reflect well on him either if he expects to go to the NBA and take on seasoned professionals when he can’t assert himself at the college level and hasn’t really shown that he can play defense consistently.
The hype from his entourage also bothers me. If his intention was truly to “test the waters”, then there should be a little more loyalty (I mean verbally) shown to UCLA to at least demonstrate that coming back to college isn’t just his safety net. The UCLA Basketball program is not just a career placement center.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
by tasser10 on May 7, 2009 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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