BN Roundup: News & Notes

by Nestor on May 7, 2009 5:11 AM PDT in News Comment 28 comments

Let's start with the news of Raymond Carter and Dominique Johnson possibly transferring out of UCLA. From Tracy Pierson at Bruin Report Online (HT insomniaclounge):

Sophomore running back Raymond Carter and junior wide receiver Dominigue Johnson will transfer out of the UCLA football program, according to sources...

Instead of getting a little dramatic about it, if you follow the program closely on a day to day basis think about in terms from the perspective of managing it. Coming into this spring UCLA was about 6 or 7 scholarships over the NCAA allotted 85 per program. So Neuheisel and his coaches needed more open scholarships to make room for their new recruits.

Dominique Johnson might have had "immense" "untapped talent," but unfortunately he was never able to flash it on a consistent basis. Moreover, per the practice reports and the observers who were there on a regular basis other receivers were ahead of him. We now have more talents like Randall Carroll coming in. So it's not a surprise that DJ is exploring other options. Same goes for Raymond Carter who while had a lot of potential was slowed down by injuries and never recovered. Hopefully it works out for both of those guys where they land.

Speaking of players who have moved on, interesting quotes from Drafexpress.com in reaction to Holiday's comments of having "fun" in the NBA:

The first quote about Holiday—regarding how much more fun the NBA appears to be compared to his time in college—has to be a bit worrisome for UCLA fans and their head coach Ben Howland. It really seems like Holiday was disappointed by his college experience in the Bruins’ rigid system, which might make it very difficult for him to decide to return to school.

Let’s be honest, though, this probably isn’t the way Holiday wants to be portrayed. “Fun” wouldn’t be the way most NBA head coaches would describe their preparation and execution in the NBA playoffs, and that all begins and ends with defense, which just happens to be Holiday’s biggest asset at the moment. Holiday probably doesn’t want to give teams the impression that he’s just looking to find a place where he can have fun and not worry about defense, especially after his forgettable quotes a few weeks back about being jealous of Darren Collison.

I guess his comments were "worrisome" to those Bruin fans who are holding on to hope that somehow he returns for his sophomore season. As far as the references to forgettable quotes saying it was frustrating to him that he didn't get as many "touches" as he thought he would this past season, it's interesting to see draftexpress.com read the tealeaves. The notion that Holiday has been jealous of DC is consistent with the chatter we have seen in some message boards this past season, when posters closed to Holiday were relentlessly scapegoating (and attacking) DC and JS - two seniors who gave everything they had to Ben Howland's program - for this past season.

As I have said at this point the best case scenario for UCLA is for this guy to get drafted in first round and just move on because not sure if his return will be good for the chemistry in this program and people around it. We would be better off with a fresh start without Holiday next season.

GO BRUINS.

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Managing the Talent

As sad as we might be to see some of our players leaving, the upside is that we are building a program where there is so much talent that, when managed, some will see that their futures belong elsewhere.

Whereas in the past we had a group of dedicated players of about equal ability, we are now attracting dedicated players some of whom really stand out. They will play and some of our favorites won’t. Athletics are about competition and even though teams are built on solidarity, there is internal competition for playing time.

Our players have to decide where they best meet their goals. I tend to think school first, but obviously a young kid who has NFL (or NBA) dreams may not put that first.

Another factor is the lack of patience most of us manifest in these days of instant gratification. There was a time when people worked their way up the charts and didn’t expect a lot of playing time until their junior years. (Freshmen were not allowed to play varsity ball.) Now, some expect to start in their first year and leave before their fourth.

I get the feeling that in “managing the talent” CRN and his coaches are being very honest about what they see in each player and what he needs to do to get playing time. I much prefer this to coaches who stockpile talent and lead people on. This honesty will cost us some transfers but will also maintain our programs integrity.

Finally, I truly hope these kids are thinking things through, before jumping. Unforeseen injuries change depth charts rapidly. Did anyone expect KC to be our starting QB for most of the year?

I wish these guys the best — should they stay or leave.

(If Carter leaves does that improve our chance of retaining Dean?)

sjh

by Class of 66 on May 7, 2009 6:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Jrue Holiday - Why not complain? His Income Is On The Line.

I wish the nuclear scenario had hit at the end of last season. We didn’t get any further for Darren and Josh coming back. And I’m pretty sure Darren and Jrue hurt their 2009 draft stock because of it.

Looking forward to next season, Jrue can still come back after all of these comments from his camp. His primary complaint, playing time at PG, will be satisfied. Between him, Lee and Anderson we will have a future NBA starting back court. We played Holiday out of position for an entire season. I don’t think he would have come to UCLA had he known Darren was coming back.

His comments remind me a little of Kobe spouting off in a mall parking lot a couple of years ago. Without Kobe’s tirade would Pau Gasol be in L.A. ? Come 2012 will we be saying: Without Jrue’s whining would banner 12 be hanging in the New Pauley Pavilion?

I completely agree with the idea that this current team is the first true Ben Howland built team at UCLA. We now have defensive length at every position. We have physical frontcourt defenders, shot blockers and scorers all coming in as freshman this year. Yes we’ll be young but I’m pretty damn excited just thinking about it. I want Jrue back because an NBA All Star running this show could be really interesting.

by alcor805 on May 7, 2009 7:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

NBA All Star???

Say what? Jrue is now an NBA All Star? When did that happen?

And please, enough with the whining about “playing out of position”. I don’t see how that affected his defense, and even if it cramped his playing style, too bad. Magic played Center one game, for crying out loud. Any player who complains that he didn’t perform well because everything was not lined up for him has a serious lack of character. And UCLA Basketball is not just a career placement center.

We didn’t get any further for Darren and Josh coming back? I can’t believe I’m reading this. You are now complaining because players came back for their senior season? And by all accounts, Josh had a great year.

I don’t really think that Darren hurt his draft stock either, as illustrated by this article.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on May 7, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did you mean to link to a WSJ article basically stating that it's nice to have fast guys?

I love Darren Collison, think he was a tremendous representative of UCLA and wish him nothing but the best. Hopefully, he enjoyed his senior year and finds a lot of value in staying to get his degree- however, it’s very hard to argue that Collison did hurt his draft stock by staying his senior year. I hope I’m wrong, but man, this is one guard heavy draft this year.

by insomniacslounge on May 7, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ugh....need an edit button

hard to argue that Collison didn’t hurt his draft stock.

by insomniacslounge on May 7, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess we'll see

There’s no way to know where he would have been drafted last year, and we have to wait and see where he’ll be drafted this year. I’m not sure he would have been a lottery pick last year, so in that sense I don’t really think that he hurt his stock. He still had a very good year, but his supporting cast wasn’t as good, and if he hadn’t hurt his tailbone at the end of the season I think he would have finished much better. So in the end I think it’s a wash, as in I believe he would have been a late first rounder last year and will be one this year, though he could possibly slip to the 2nd round. Anyway, if you’re not a lottery pick, it doesn’t matter…right?

The article was just to show that guys like DC are valued right now in the NBA, with Arron Brooks being an example.

And finally, what DC did should be praised and not vilified. It may cost him some $, but it’s nice to see that that’s not all that matters to some people.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on May 7, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope you're right

As long as he stays in the first round and gets the guaranteed contract, then yeah, it didn’t really hurt him much financially to stay his senior year. I just look at a draft with Rubio, Jennings, Flynn, Curry, Holiday, Lawson, Evans, Maynor, and Mills and I worry about whether he’ll get bumped into the 2nd rd.

by insomniacslounge on May 7, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's why

I wish the media would cover his status more than Jrue’s! I have no idea how his workouts are going or what draft experts are saying about him. Hopefully the demand for PGs is enough to get him into the first round. If not, it’s ok…LRMAM did pretty good out of the 2nd round :)

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on May 7, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

UCLA = THE CAREER PLACEMENT CENTER

And I’ll be sad the day it isn’t.

by alcor805 on May 7, 2009 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Man Holiday’s development this off season has been incredible. He was like RW before he headed into these draft workouts. Then he became Chris Paul during the workouts. Now he is Kobe. Awesome.

by Nestor on May 7, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOVE IT! Hahah, this whole JH show is

quickly becoming one of the most farcical episodes of UCLA basketball. What a waste.

B.F.

by eubruin on May 7, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's doing a reverse Darren Collison

Collison went from the next Isiah Thomas his sophomore season.
To Chauncey Billups his junior season.
To Mike Bibby his senior year.

by alcor805 on May 7, 2009 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL .. so you comeback with bashing DC

That shows exactly what Holiday backers have been doing, denigrating one of the greatest Bruin basketball players in Post Wooden era. If you keep that up (attacking DC) you will have to do that somewhere else.

by Nestor on May 8, 2009 4:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen to all that Nesotr has said re JH

Lest anyone doubt the value of defense in the NBA, I offer the example of Jordan Farmar demonstrating Ben Ball D last night versus the Houston Rockets.

I also say best wishes to JH for future success and on to this next Bruin season.

by 281bruins on May 7, 2009 8:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Lets not go too far about the Ben Ball thing

Lets not forget that this is Farmar’s first significant playing time in quite some time, having his minutes shaved back in favor of the flashier Brown. Its important to have defense, but if your shot isn’t falling, your playing time will.

by westwood78 on May 7, 2009 9:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I have mixed feeling about Jrue coming back

With all the negative feeling toward Jrue, it makes very difficult for Jrue to come back as if nothing had happened. I still maintain that Jrue made a big mistake by “testing the waters”. He is simply not good enough to make NBA. Even if he is drafted, he will sit on the bench for at least two years and this will definitely hurt his game by not playing. Another thing I don’t want is dissention among team members which will probably be unavoidable when he returns to the team. I like Jrue to play for us at least one more season, but after all these negative reports, the only thing he can do would be to withdraw from the draft and make a sincere public statement, a statement to show his love for school and team-mates.

by NNL on May 7, 2009 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Question

I wonder how much dissention among team members there would be if he returns. Many would argue that this is a moot point because he is likely gone. It seems from the discussion here that there were chemistry issues with the seniors, I haven’t heard much about the coaching staff or the returning players (except that Drew Gordon was going to beg Jrue to come back). I may have missed where this was discussed elsewhere, but does anyone know how Jrue’s relationship is with the coaching staff and returning players?

by sjc7522 on May 7, 2009 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is a nice picture

above Malcom Lee’s locker of the two of them still. That’s gotta be a good sign, right?

by turs12 on May 8, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did I read that right?

Drafexpress claimed defense was one of JH assets?

A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden

by MexiBruin on May 7, 2009 10:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I understand the frustration over Jrue, and like everyone else, I really wish a decision would be made one way or the other. But I really don’t understand why everyone keeps bashing a fellow Bruin.

JH’s loyalty is, as it should be, to himself and to his family first. He is on the cusp of being drafted and signing a contract that could potentially set his financial future for life. There is a lot of posturing going on from his camp attempting to increase his stock and contract value. This is normal. Yes, some things have been said that I do not agree with, but I understand the motive. He is merely playing by the rules that have been set in place (for now).

Yes, if JH simply said, “I want to go to the NBA, so I will sign an agent and let everyone move on” he would be a very good Bruin. But would being a good Bruin provide for his family should he suffer a catastrophic knee injury while working out? I think a lot of people should get some perspective.

Again, I’m not here to say that I agree or disagree with JH’s actions. I think his comments re: defense were foolish. It did not appear to me that his performance last year indicated an NBA ready player, and he is somehow trying to minimize his performance last year and maximize his prior hype and potential. It’s his strategy, and I truly wish him the best. I would have liked to see him run the point and grow under CBH, but I understand what he is doing.

by AllHailMightyBruins on May 7, 2009 11:42 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Again

as far as I’m concerned, my beef with him is not that he is keeping his options open, but with the comments he and his entourage have made regarding Ben Howland’s system. Essentially, those comments don’t really leave room for him returning next year…so the charade is just a bit annoying, but the comments are more bothersome for me.

This draft system has relegated college to, first, a nuisance, second, a “safety net”, a fallback for these types of players, and I for one really do not like it.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on May 7, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Understood

I don’t appreciate the comments from his camp either. It’s just that I view them as business, not personal.

The system does suck. I have no argument with that.

by AllHailMightyBruins on May 7, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think CBH knows that

We all know that he deserves better, but that’s the price of having the professional world infringing upon college.

I really have nothing against JH personally, or against what he is doing. My only two concerns here are about how our program is portrayed, and about what the team chemistry would be like if he returned next year.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on May 7, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's talk about money

I might be wrong but I believe even Jrue has a catastrophic knee injury, the NBA contract would not protect his salary. First, I think all NBA rookies have a salary cap. Second, I would think the contract has a lot of escape clauses such as minimum number of games played. NBA owners are not stupid to sign any contract with unknown players such as Jrue. My point is, if Jrue stays for one more year, it may not hurt his financial situation at all. On the contrast, he may be a high pick and consequently sign a fatter contract.

by NNL on May 7, 2009 12:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He was talking about pre-draft workouts

If Jrue were to get injured during workouts leading up to the draft, he still has his amateur status and could return to UCLA for another season. If however, he’d already signed with an agent, he will have forfeited that right and his options would be limited.

As for NBA rookie contracts: 1st round picks are given a contract that is guaranteed for two years with team options for a 3rd and 4th year. The salary is pre-determined by your draft position according to a predetermined rookie salary scale. As far as I know, there are no escape clauses for those first two years- certainly not performance based anyway. I know that in baseball, teams protect themselves from losing money on the contracts of injured players by taking out insurance policies. I imagine something similar is done in basketball.

by insomniacslounge on May 7, 2009 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

As insomniacslounge pointed out, I was referring to protecting himself by preserving his amateur status should he suffer injury.

First round draft picks have guaranteed contracts, also pointed out by insomniacslounge. NBA owners are definitely stupid enough to guarantee contracts with unknown players. See Darko Milicic, Detroit Pistons. If he were to be drafted in the second round, which is definitely within the realm of possibility, he would not have a guaranteed contract. My understanding is, however, that if he were to make the team and subsequently suffer a catastrophic injury, the team would be required to pay him the terms of the contract. I may be wrong, but that is my impression.

Whether Jrue would make more money if he were to come back and excel in his sophomore season is an entirely different argument altogether. While I agree that his draft would likely be much higher, there is also risk of injury, opportunity loss, etc. I believe that argument has been discussed in many other posts.

by AllHailMightyBruins on May 7, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

For me there’s a certain bitterness at having such high expectations for Jrue, seeing him do nothing noteworthy whatsoever, and then watching him leave. It’s like “is that all?” That’s the best he could give UCLA? Every other player that has left in the past few years I had no problem with because they made an impact during their time as a Bruin. Jrue will just be a footnote.

I understand that I shouldn’t place high expectations on kids like Jrue but I’m a passionate fan and that’s my problem. I also understand that he can and should look out for himself. Him leaving is not the problem for me…him leaving after having accomplished nothing is.

Because of this bitterness, I hope he leaves.

by RealisticBruinFan on May 8, 2009 1:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs