Bruins Nation: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Sounder At Heart for Seattle Sounders Fans!

NBA GMs Lend Credence to Holiday's Abuse Excuse

For better or worse, Jrue Holiday is gone to the NBA. When he declared, he had the reputation of a high-school prodigy who couldn't make a smooth transition to the college game. Average to better than average Pac-10 guards had rendered him impotent on the court. What's a guy in that situation to do?


He could have taken responsibility for his poor freshman season. But no, in Jrue's case, he went on the offensive, displaying with his mouth the finishing skills that his body could not produce on the floor during his freshman campaign. He and his handlers spun a story about how he was misused by the coaches, lied to about his role, kept at arm's length by the seniors, blah blah blah, what I like to call the "Holiday Abuse Excuse."  The fans' disappointment over Holiday's freshman season numbers and disappearance in losses and confusion that a player so overmatched could actually generate lottery interest from teh NBA quickly turned into irritation that he would denigrate the four letters that he represented on the court. At the end, he received "good riddance" comments from fans who must realize that, objectively speaking, he would likely have been our best player in 2009-2010 and could have made the difference between a Pac-10 title and a Pac-10 also-ran.


But now that he's gone, let's look at the efficacy of the Holiday Abuse Excuse.

Star-divide

When Holiday declared in April, initial reports were that he shouldn't leave, that he wouldn't stay in the draft:

Came into the season with huge hype but left people wondering what all the fuss was about. Obviously has great size for the PG position, if in fact he's a point guard. Pundits have long hyped him in a similar, almost programmed fashion, but for someone that was supposed to be polished entering college ball, he looked downright awful at times and never took over or dominated. Pac-Ten writers and insiders all think he's overrated. The early lottery projections were way off, and the DWade and Westbrook comparisons are a farce. With all the early entry candidates, Holiday is no lock for the first round and should return to school and prove himself by running the point guard position for UCLA next season. The UCLA system constrains statistics, but by leaving now, after such an average year, it makes it appear as if he has something to hide. Likely late first to early second rounder.

The Holiday Abuse Excuse campaign began, and one month later, the acceptance of Jrue's Abuse Excuse for his disappointing first year was gaining momentum:

A point guard by nature, Holiday spent the majority of his time playing off the ball due to the presence of Collison. This fact, coupled with Ben Howland’s slow-paced offensive system, prevented Holiday from getting very many touches or allowing him the freedom to create. Scouts who have seen tape of the freshman from his days as a prep star in California know that Holiday is a blossoming talent with an intriguing skill set to go along with good size for his position.

Fast forward to today, the Holiday Abuse Excuse continues to generate acceptance in NBA circles

One general manager said of Holiday: "[UCLA's] Ben Howland is an excellent college coach, but he had his thumb down so hard on that kid that he was afraid to take a shot at 15 feet. ... I think the coach had him scared to take most shots." The counter, of course, is that Howland's primary job is to win at UCLA, not run a farm club for the pros. 

And Holiday is now projected as a lottery pick. Coincidence? I think not. Holiday could have performed well in workouts and measured well at the combine, but NBA general managers know to trust their eyes and the results of a player's one season in college. Let's not forget that one of the main reasons the NBA imposed the age limit was to give teams a chance to evaluate players against better competition (than in high school). Prior to the rule, GMs were making bad choices drafting on potential because they didn't have adequate ways to measure how a 6'11" prospect in Mississippi would stack up against another similar player in Ohio. After one year of NCAA ball, and GMs can see the cream rise to the top.

Thus, prior to the Holiday Abuse Excuse, GMs had the "potential" of Holiday, counterweighed by his poor freshman season. The counterweight of a bad college season has sunk many players and forced them back to college for another season.  GMs do not risk their jobs drafting (and asking their boss to spend millions on) guys whose potential was not matched by the one year of performance against college competition. But if they can shift responsibility for the poor performance onto Ben Howland forcing Holiday to play out of position, well, then, you can go back to looking at the potential of Holiday the Point Guard and not the player you saw overmatched--Holiday the Shooting Guard.

So there you have it. Holiday Potential + Disappointing Season + Holiday Abuse Excuse = Lottery.  Jrue Holiday used what I thought was a poor excuse, a bush league performance, selling out his coach and teammates, absolving himself of responsibility and irritating the hell out of Bruin fans everywhere. I don't excuse him for what he did to the Bruins, but I have to tip my hat for how he played to his audience for all of this: NBA GMs. He brilliantly played his hand to the tune of hitting the lottery and making millions more for himself. Wow.

And then I realize: This is how the mind of an NBA general manager works? How much do these guys get paid?

And with that, I'm back to being confused.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

4 recs  |  Comment 26 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

So I wonder

If there has been a “campaign” to promote Holiday at the expense of denigrating Coach Howland?

If the answer to above is yes than who has been conducting that campaign?

If the answer to both of the questions above are affirmative has the campaign being conducted with Holiday’s knowledge or with a wink or nod from him?

by Nestor on Jun 17, 2009 7:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He shouldn't be

But NBA GMs sometimes like to make a public show of how little they really know about basketball.

by Rhapsode on Jun 17, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you say...

Elgin Baylor, anyone? Almost single-handedly keeping the Clippers stay the Clippers for two decades

greg in denver - UCLA guy for life

by gbruin on Jun 18, 2009 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now now, let's not be too harsh on Elgin

After all, he saw the latent talent in Michael Olawakandi. Didn’t Michael lead the Clippers to many nba championships? Oh. Wait.

Never mind.

My point is that anyone could have overlooked Vince Carter and Dirk Nowitzki. Oh. And Paul Pierce. And Mike Bibby.

by Fox 71 on Jun 18, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

Has anyone every really “run” the Clippers?

by Nestor on Jun 18, 2009 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Weak

This is a weak draft year, my guess is that Holiday goes top 10, after the fifth pick. Like people have said before.. Coach Howland is too classy to bring anything other than positive PR for his players, He genuinely loves UCLA and the way of coach Wooden’s teachings to drop to the level of the average fan or blogger. Like Trevor, I wish Jrue all the best and can only hope when the day comes, and I think it will, when he is sucessfull in the NBA he will represent UCLA with pride and class. That’s the best we can hope for.

GO BRUINS!

by westwood12003 on Jun 18, 2009 12:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Enough Already

Who cares about Jrue Holliday? He is no longer on the team and his experience in a Bruins uniform was short and fairly unmemorable. Furthermore, I don’t think Coach Howland cares about what NBA GMs are saying about his program. Howland has built a strong program by staying true to his principles of team-oriented play and strong, in-your-face defense. He has never wavered from his philosophy from Day 1.

By this point, it is not a secret what type of style the Bruins play under Howland or the type of player who will fit in and thrive in his system. Recruits who sign on with the Bruins should know what they are getting into.

That is why I put the blame on Holliday. What did he think was going to happen when he got to UCLA? If he had been paying attention, he would have noticed that even Keven Kevin Love did not get 20 touches a game.

And if he was planning on staying one year, why didn’t he go to a program (i.e. Memphis or Washington to play with his brother) that would have given him “the freedom to create?”

Like many fans, I was eagerly awaiting Holliday’s arrival to Westwood. From all accounts, he was an outstanding player and an even better person. But season did not go according to plan. I wish him luck in the NBA, but his success or failure at the next level won’t change they way I feel about Howland or the Bruins.

richramus

by richramus on Jun 18, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I've already expressed my opinion on this topic,

so I’ll spare everyone what could be construed as “sour grapes” over Jrue leaving early.

But one more point I want to make on your well-written discussion. If Jrue does get picked in the lottery (highly likely based on all the projections I’ve seen), and somehow manages to have a break-out, successful rookie season (highly unlikely given everything I saw last year), will this lend some credence to the “Holiday abuse excuse” you alluded to? Will his supporters point to his lack of production in college and say “You see, Howland’s system really did hold this kid back! Look at what he’s doing in the NBA!”

Because of this spin doctoring and revisionist history, you could argue that Holliday doing well in the NBA could do more harm to our program than good.

Something every Bruin supporter should keep their eye on over the next 12 months or so.

by godblesstyus95 on Jun 18, 2009 11:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just playing devil's advocate

but if JH is successful in the NBA, can’t one also say that he went to UCLA and whatever he learned during his one year in school helped him develop his skills and become a successful NBA player (and therefore UCLA/Howland led to his success)?

I honestly have no opinion or stance on the whole Jrue departure issue apart from my selfish wish that he had stayed in school to help UCLA next year. But when I see a bunch of guys in the NBA with “UCLA” next to their names, I think it can only help the program. Even though Ariza only spent one year at UCLA, that’s the only school anyone associates him with.

by Barnes2JJ on Jun 18, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh

Michael Jordan was also “held back” by Dean Smith. That didn’t seem to hurt the UNC program though…

And, once again, JH knew exactly what kind of system he was signing up for. Howland runs a deliberate system that has been successful and there is no reason to change it all to cater to the whims of a hyped up player, especially at the expense of an experienced senior who gets it. All of these one-and-done kids go to a program to showcase and advertise their abilities, and in Jrue’s case it looks like he’ll get a lot more out of it than he put in.

If JH does well in the NBA, it’ll just go to show that this one-and-done rule is just dumb and useless.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jun 18, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree sort of

“Howland runs a deliberate system that has been successful and there is no reason to change it all to cater to the whims of a hyped up player….” Coach ran a high post offense until Alcindor arrived. Then he went to a low post. Back to a high post when Patterson took over for Alcindor, then back to a low post with Walton. I’m confident that Coach Howland would do the same if he got Alcindor or Walton (he did manage to get it low to Kevin Love a lot.).

I think the fact that Coach Howland didn’t change his offense to fit Holiday speaks more about what Holiday brought to the team than about Coach Howland’s coaching abilities and his willingness to tailor the system to accommodate the players. I think Holiday just wasn’t good enough. In streetball system, he might have averaged more points, but if he wanted to play in that system the last place he should have come is UCLA.

by Fox 71 on Jun 18, 2009 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well you are right

and JH is definitely no Alcindor or Walton. I guess that was my point, JH was not good enough to warrant a change in Howland’s system. We all know he is fully capable of changing his system to fit his team, as noticed in this year’s much more potent offense, and last year when the post was fed a bit more deliberately to feed Love (though not enough to some people’s taste).

I think the bottom line was that JH was too much of a liability on defense to be at the point guard position. Disrupting the other team’s sets is the hallmark of a Howland system, and that all starts with a PG who is a menace on defense…which JH was definitely not.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jun 18, 2009 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Still Waiting ....

For someone to give me a direct quote from Jure, which when taken in context, denigrates CBH or UCLA.

The interviews with Jrue cited in this article are deeply respectful, self effacing and not negative, in any way, about CBH or our program.

That fact that a columnist says something negative about CBH is not Jrue’s fault and he should not be punished for it.

I truly wonder how many of those who cite the columnists have taken the time to read what Jrue said. All of the quotes above DO NOT come from Jrue.

Finally, I don’t understand why this is even topical. He’s gone. Is there nothing better to write about?

sjh

PS. Nestor raises the right questions. For those of you who believe there was a campaign to denigrate CBH or UCLA — can you substantiate the campaign with direct evidence that it exists — including direct quotes from Jrue? And, if it was done by someone else, can you tell us who and tie direct evidence to the conspirators?

If you can do this, I’ll back off and admit I am wrong. If you do not, I will continue to say that Jrue is not being treated fairly.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jun 18, 2009 7:49 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

+1, 66.

I suspect what Jrue is “playing” is skilled, impressive basketball at the workouts, not NBA GM’s.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Jun 18, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

From reading all the tea leaves during this draft season I do believe the answer to the first question is yes. I do believe there has been a sustained PR campaign to promote Holiday at the expense of Ben Howland. These stories/quotes don’t get placed in paper/publications by accident. People work hard to pitch these stories.

My question is who has been behind it and whether it was done with a nod and wink from Holiday and/or his camp.

by Nestor on Jun 18, 2009 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Tend to Disagree

But, I trust that you’ve actually seen the tea leaves and admit I haven’t.

The things being said about Howland and his system are exactly the same bonehead things that were said about him during the season BEFORE Jrue even decided to test the waters.

And, some of them were said here.

The fact that we had a highly efficient relatively high scoring offense and were able to and did play quickly were ignored by many “critics” in the MSM. We heard negative comments about Howland’s “style” of offense, with the accompanying inference that all he cared about was D, all the time. Seeing them now, post Jrue should be no surprise and should not be attributed to a conspiracy.

The same can be said about the topic that Jrue was playing out of position. It was a constant topic of discussion here, on BN,and elsewhere. That is not part of a conspiracy, either.

I think these are the two topics being used to beat on Jrue. Truth be told, they were always topics and he, personally, has done nothing, post season, to put our program in a bad light.

Quite to the contrary, read the actual quotes in the articles above. In one, he makes clear that he could have gone to NC, been on a national championship team, but is pleased he chose UCLA. What more need he say?

sjh

by Class of 66 on Jun 19, 2009 5:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have nothing against anything Holiday has said

I remember one interview (I think at the beginning of the season) in which he was poised and polished and said all the right things. He now has a little different agenda, but I haven’t heard any real pot-shots.

My opinion n all of this was not with what he said, but rather with the way he performed, and the notion that his performance was such that he would be viewed as one of the 10 or so best players in the whole country and other countries to boot. I had him at being only around fifth or sixth best on our team, so I don’t understand why the smart people running nba franchises think he’s worth a zillion dollars. Well, I guess it’s their money and they can spend it any way they want, but I wouldn’t spend a whole heck of a lot of it on young Mr. Holiday.

(Questions for the crack BN stat squad: What percentage of the players drafted by the nba (I guess it’s two rounds, so two guys for each of 32 teams?) are on an nba team at the end of the first year or second or third. Even guys drafted in the first round can turn out to be stiffs. But what are the stats on this? Anybody know? If the likelihood of any particular draft choce sticking around and helping a team is low, then I can’t understand why the bonuses are so high. Granted, there are guys like Jabbar or Bird or Magic are obviously going to make it. But is anyone in that league in this year’s draft? Who’s that guy from Oklahoma. Is he the next Jabbar? I think I would be a bad owner, because I wouldn’t pay these bonuses to draftees. I would be like George Allen, and trade all my draft choices for proven talent.).

by Fox 71 on Jun 18, 2009 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fox

I don’t have an answer to your question(s) per say, but I offer you this: In the last 30 years, there have only been 7 NBA franchises to win a title: (LA, Boston, Chicago, San Antonio, Detroit, Houston and Miami). Every year, it is pretty much a given that most or all of the following franchises: Clippers, the Kings, the Warriors, the Wizards, the Grizzlies, the Timberwolves, the Bobcats, the Bucks, the Knicks, the Raptors, and the Sonics/Thunder, will be picking in the lottery. The NBA has the LEAST amount of parity/worst-to-first scenarios than any other sport. Why? Because NBA teams generally don’t get better through the draft like they do in other sports. Of course, every 3-5 years or so, a LeBron James, a Tim Duncan, or a DeWayne Wade or a Dwight Howard comes along and changes the fortune of a bad franchise. More often than not, though, these franchises are picking unproven guys like Kwame Brown, Shaun Livingston or Sebastian Telfair, etc, while the elite teams acquire PROVEN talent through trades, like say, Pau Gasol to the Lakers, or Kevin Garnett to the Celtics. This year, I think there are only 2 potential impact players, Blake Griffin and Ricky Rubio, that are good enough to change the fortunes of a bad franchise. Maybe just one of them will, maybe neither. Who knows?

So there’s a long, drawn out paragraph that hopefully sums up a theoritical, if not statistical, answer to your question.

by godblesstyus95 on Jun 18, 2009 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think if I were the Clippers or one of the Have-Nots, I would trade my draft picks for a proven General Manager.

I am aware that there has been criticism of Kupchak (I’m more sure of the criticism than of the spelling of his name), but he would have a more immediate and a more long term impact on a team than Jrue Holiday, even if Holiday turns out to be a star. I suppose that would create a rift in the space-time continuum, but I can live with it. I already watch games with the sound off.

by Fox 71 on Jun 19, 2009 5:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually Fox, the pay and commitment to draftees is a relative bargain.

Last year’s #1 pick, Derrick Rose had the 8th highest salary of all the players on Chicago’s final roster, and accounted for 7% of the team’s overall payroll. Michael Beasley accounted for 6% of Miami’s payroll. OJ Mayo accounted for about 7% of Memphis’ payroll, and his $3.875 million salary was probably less than what he made at USC. Westbrook and Love were in the neighborhood of 5% of their team’s payrolls.

If you’re a small market team that’s trying to get your fanbase excited about the future, then bringing in these kids and hoping you’ve got the next Duncan/Lebron/Wade is about your only option.

Now if you’re a big market team, then you have the option of screwing up or bypassing the draft altogether, waiting for the cream to rise to the top, and then signing those young stars to a big deal- like the Lakers did w/ Shaq back in the day and the Knicks are planning on doing w/ Lebron in 2010.

by insomniacslounge on Jun 20, 2009 3:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

One more question

You said “Now if you’re a big market team, then you have the option of screwing up or bypassing the draft altogether, waiting for the cream to rise to the top, and then signing those young stars to a big deal- like the Lakers did w/ Shaq back in the day and the Knicks are planning on doing w/ Lebron in 2010.”

I thought there was a salary cap, which to me means that all the teams have the same amount of money to spend on players notwithstanding the size of their markets (which I assume to be synonymous with revenue.) So how does that work? Is the nba salary cap the same thing as the ncaa rule that says just$c* can’t pay its players?

by Fox 71 on Jun 20, 2009 5:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

First round draftees are guaranteed a contract

Second rounders are not guaranteed, which is why it’s so important to go in the first round.

The NBA uses a soft cap. There’s a salary cap, but a couple exceptions. For example, there’s the mid-level exception, which allows teams over the salary cap to sign a guy or multiple guys up to the NBA’s average salary (which is currently around $5.65 million). So there are ways for teams to go over the cap. Once you’re over the cap, you cannot go out and sign guys, but you can go over the cap if you’re resigning your own guys. There’s also the luxury tax number, which is higher than the salary cap number and for every dollar you go over the luxury tax number, you have to pay a dollar to the NBA’s luxury tax fund.

by Ryan Rosenblatt on Jun 20, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the answer is yes, the salary cap is the same as the ncaa rule that says just$c* can't pay its players.

Let me be sure I have this. There is an absolute salary cap over which you absolutely cannot go. Sometimes. Most of the time you can go over it. Using that thinking, OJ was abolutely 100% not guilty, except when he cut the two throats. Was Bud Selig involved in the nba before he got into baseball?

by Fox 71 on Jun 20, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bruins Nation, an unofficial daily online scrap book covering the greatest collegiate athletic program in the nation. GO BRUINS.
Start posting about the Bruins »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

13-9_ucla_baby____036_small
Videos from Washington/UCLA Football Game!
2145443360_ab27e15b11_b_small
Bleeding Blue and Gold ... Always
Morrell_small
The UCLA Passing Game Under Norm Chow
Arron_afflalo1_small
NBA Opening Night (Bruin Edition)
Rowing_picture_small
Football is like a box of chocolates

Recent FanPosts

Telemachus_small
Washington @ UCLA Photos
Bruinsnation_small
A Quick Reflection On Steve Sarkasian For Rest Of 2009
Bruinsnation_small
Harrison Barnes' Amazing Trip To Howlandwood
Bruinsnation_small
The Big Red Signs Off
Moreyouknow_small
Pre-Game Guesses: Oregon State Results
Screen_shot_2009-09-28_at_6
13-9’s Tidbits: Washington Edition
Small
Hartman doesnt get it
Ucla_small
Ben Ball 09-10, Day 1
Small
Google News Bruin feed created

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Managers

094_small Ajax

Bruinsnation_small Nestor

Menelaus2_small Menelaus

Arron_afflalo1_small Tydides

Brad_pitt_as_achilles_small Achilles

Small Meriones

Telemachus_small Telemachus

Small Odysseus

Blue_bellerophon_small Bellerophon

Authors

Images_small Ryan Rosenblatt

Official Partner of CBS Sports