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U$C* Gets Caught Cheating, Rigging Academic Rankings

ROFL:

How many members of the National Academy of Engineering are on the faculty at the University of Southern California?

This might seem like a straightforward question, but it's anything but when you add in the politics of rankings. USC's Viterbi School of Engineering maintains a list of 34 faculty members it says are in the academy. And when reporting to U.S. News & World Report, which uses NAE members on the faculty as one criterion in its rankings of top engineering graduate schools (where USC landed at No. 7), Southern California claimed 30 members.

But according to the National Academy of Engineering, USC has only 22 members on its faculty.

No.  That's not from the Onion. That is from Inside Higher Ed, which is a key online source for news and opinions (and jobs) on all matters related to higher education. So they dug a little deeper into what has gone over at U$C* and the details are just crazy:

In some cases, those listed as USC faculty members with academy membership appear to have been added to the roster a bit after their peak research years. Simon Ramo -- whose career has been distinguished in developing weapons systems (the R in the company TRW is for his name) -- wasn't named to the USC faculty until last year. He was 94 at the time. The USC directory does not indicate any contact information for him on campus.

It's funny yet kind of sad that this is not surprising to any of us. The response from U$C* when confronted about this is also classic:

USC provided three different explanations to Inside Higher Ed when asked why it was claiming more faculty members as NAE members than it appears to have. First, an official said that some faculty members work elsewhere, in the business world for example, and teach part time at USC. Told that such faculty members wouldn't meet the U.S. News criteria (which count as faculty members those who are full time and on the tenure track), the officials responsible for handling the rankings referred questions to the dean, who said that all 30 National Academy of Engineering members claimed by USC as faculty members teach full time.

Then, when Inside Higher Ed provided USC with a list of 17 of the 34 supposed faculty members who did not appear to be full-time faculty members after all, USC said it was reviewing its procedures for counting, and had informed U.S. News of a possible problem.

I guess just keep this story in mind whenever you see U$C* ranked anywhere in U.S. News' academic rankings. That too is a joke and should be accompanied by an asterisk. I guess when talk about U$C* and lack of institutional control it goes way beyond their semi professional sports programs. It's ingrained in their culture.

GO BRUINS.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of BruinsNation's (BN) editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of BN's editors.

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OMFG! Wow! Just today I was talking to a much higher ranking person than me (I’m Navy) about USC vs UCLA engineering. I claimed UCLA engineering was much better and he disagreed, citing the parity between the programs & the metrics. His son had just chosen UCLA over USC, and he (the dad) wasn’t too sure about the choice. Thanks for this info…

“umm, they teach here! Srsly! We’ll go find them.. Umm, do honorary degrees count towards the limit?”

by impaulv on Jun 9, 2009 5:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I guess Pete Carroll has gone from mentoring the basketball team to the Engineering Dept? ;-)

by impaulv on Jun 9, 2009 5:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

This part made gasp and the laugh:

Simon Ramo — whose career has been distinguished in developing weapons systems (the R in the company TRW is for his name) — wasn’t named to the USC faculty until last year. He was 94 at the time.

NINTETY FOUR DUDE? LOL!

by uclafan11 on Jun 9, 2009 7:42 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey...

At least he was alive… Could have been much much worse. “Yes, of course he’s full-time & tenured!” “umm, he’s been dead for 6 months” “….oh, well… he still provides crucial mentoring”

by impaulv on Jun 9, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, True

Wouldn’t put that past them either!

by uclafan11 on Jun 9, 2009 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just perfect

What could be more just$c* than to cheat on academics and then lie about it. It’s just absolutely perfect. I’m sure the dean who all this got referred to is Dean Wormer, who will report that many of those full time faculty people were actually “Double Secret Faculty.”

by Fox 71 on Jun 9, 2009 8:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well that's certainly a slippery slope

The standards for “faculty” at SUC become ever more rigorous. Taught an hour long seminar once? Faculty. Gave a speech that you were paid for? Faculty. Mentored a grad student? Faculty. Drive by campus a couple of times a year? Faculty.

What stops them from raising their pinky to their mouths and proclaiming that they have One Million Members of the NAE?

by Tydides on Jun 9, 2009 8:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Also funny
USC said it was reviewing its procedures for counting, and had informed U.S. News of a possible problem.

Reviewing your procedures for counting? It’s ONE, TWO, THREE… and so on. You’re welcome in advance.

by uclafan11 on Jun 9, 2009 8:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

my thinking when I read that. “…(P)rocedures for counting…?”

That’s just sad.

Love My Bruins

by Bruingirl83 on Jun 12, 2009 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I always thought

engineering required advanced math skills. Live and learn.

by FreewayBruin03 on Jun 12, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

USC is the gift that keeps on giving.

It is the Keystone Kops of “universities.” It is the fat and clueless Sgt Schultz of compliance. It is the Gomer Pyle of education. It doesn’t get any better than this.

A coach is someone who can give correction without causing resentment. John Wooden

by MexiBruin on Jun 9, 2009 9:24 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's not just USC that does this

Much as I love to bag on U$C, the real problem is the importance that everyone attaches to the US News and World Report rankings.

Since USN&WR was really the first to come out with these silly rankings, they seem to have the most weight. But their standards for ranking change every year and have no consistency. They do this because their annual ranking issue is easily their best seller, and they need to publish something new each year.

If you know anything about large institutions like these universities, you know that they’re like those huge oil tankers that require 5 miles of open ocean just to change direction. They’re not nimble, and they don’t change much at all year-to-year. But ask yourself exactly what could happen to cause a given school to jump or drop positions year after year? Nothing, of course, but USN&WR needs to sell their magazine.

Besides, I prefer rankings like this one, which show us 13th in the world (and amazingly, only 4th in California). You have to scroll down to 50th to find U$C.

Insert witty signature of your own choosing here.

by Flapjacks McGurty on Jun 9, 2009 10:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice!

Though I expected to see more of the Indian institutes of technology in that ranking…

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jun 9, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does the list include...

Engineer Bill Stulla? I know he passed on a few months ago, but if the ratings are based on last year’s faculty lineup, he certainly could have been “part time” then. And, since SC has trouble counting, even if ratings are based on this year’s lineup, they would presumably count him.

by ucla7477 on Jun 9, 2009 9:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

ouch.. old school

by impaulv on Jun 9, 2009 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

I believe U$C counts its Custodial Engineers as tenured professors in the department…

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jun 10, 2009 8:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

USC Law

I went to usc law and they pulled something similar. There was an issue with them not hiring Asian law professors even though they constantly boasted that they have the most diverse student body, including a significant percentage of Asians. Their initial response was that there just weren’t many Asian professors that were both qualified and interested in teaching at usc. Of course, we pointed to UCLA Law School and the great Asian Professors there.

What did they do next? Well they updated their faculty website to include a few Asian faces. One was a professor from the business school, who at some point apparently taught a class that law students could take. They also added an adjunct professor who taught a one unit course every other semester. Um… yeah, evidently their commitment to diversity is all about appearances.

I don’t particularly like bashing the law school because I actually enjoyed my time there, but one thing that i never liked is that they are a publicity machine and placed a huge emphasis on rankings.

by UCLAbruin920 on Jun 10, 2009 4:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

It's institutional

They cheat. What else needs to be said?

by Fox 71 on Jun 10, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

UCLA HAS DIFFICULTY COUNTING AS WELL

Unfortunately – UCLA seems to have a problem counting as well – check the #14 US News Rankings for engineering and the NAE website and guess what…the numbers are WAY off (even more than SC’s). So, If we live in glass houses, we shouldn’t throw stones

by #1 on Jun 10, 2009 10:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice first post, #1

You joined BN to post this? Yeah, sure.

by Fox 71 on Jun 11, 2009 3:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

He also registered under three names.

by Nestor on Jun 11, 2009 5:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is this true? I mean, even if he is a troll :-)

There are some really good articles all over the place talking about how schools feel pressured to keep up their ranking by fluffing themselves. Hope we’re not one of them….

by impaulv on Jun 11, 2009 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't blame the messenger

Look at US News and World rankings for UCLA (engineering) – #14

Compare national academy member number to what is on the website that shows UCLA really only has 20

http://www.nae.edu/nae/naepub.nsf/Members+By+Parent+InstitutionU?OpenView

Unfortuntaely, it looks like it’s common practice

by #1 on Jun 11, 2009 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question for #1

Is the situation comparable? Do we list guys as full time, tenure-track professors when they drop in once a year to give a speech?

by Fox 71 on Jun 11, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, according the the article above, only full-time professors are supposed to be reported to the USNRW.

by impaulv on Jun 11, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-graduate-schools/2008/03/28/2009-engineering-schools-errata.html

USNRW came out with a revised list after reexamining all the info. UCLA moved up to #13, USC dropped of the list…

by impaulv on Jun 11, 2009 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bad, they didn’t redo the list.. but they acknowledged they have a problem with examining data

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/college-rankings-blog/2009/06/11/university-of-southern-california-and-the-engineering-rankings.html

by impaulv on Jun 11, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where can you see the # of NAE members on the USNRW website?

by impaulv on Jun 11, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For all we know

He or she is a felon and incapable of uttering one truthful thing. Be gone with you!

Man, that was easy. Now I know why they do it. Laziness.

Troy will fall.

by Bruins102NCAA on Jun 22, 2009 4:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'm an engineer...

This has always been a thorn in my side. Non-engineers point to $c’s engineering department being better than UCLA’s. I can only speak for mechanical engineering, but anybody that has taken classes at both schools can tell you that UCLA has a much more rigorous program… even an $c student. (Although they have upped their curriculum in the past few years.)

For what it’s worth, I always thought the sudden jump by U$c* a few years back was bit suspicious; others in academia and industry thought the same thing. It’s just a guess, but it seems the US News rankings weighs the “funding available per stundent” very heavily. $c wins out in the money category over most universities in the top ten. I would argue that the financial numbers are even MORE difficult to accurately determine than NAE memebers. The article from the US News itself (provided by impaulv above) says that even when $c’s NAE membership numbers fall from 30 to 13, it won’t make much of an impact. I personally think there are some bigger issues with $c’s reporting than just number of faculty in the NAE. This is reinforced by my personal experience working as an engineer at an aerospace company. $c Bachelor’s level grads were most technically unprepared compared to other major top-tier universities we recruited (UCLA, Berkeley, Stanford, Caltech, MIT, Arizona, ASU, Colorado, UT Austin, UIUC, Carnegie Mellon, Georgia Tech). $c Master’s level students were much better, though, regardless of where they went as undergrads. There were some bright bachelor’s students from $c, but they were few and far between (I didn’t work with any that were, anyway). Most of them ended up getting promoted out of technical positions and went into management very early. Managers with technical experience are valuable, but can you call yourself anything if you don’t have sound fundamentals for your profession?

Anyway, this is a total parallel to what’s going on with their athletics program. This is the U$c* way.

by solidgoldsound on Jun 14, 2009 1:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Another thing I forgot to mention...

The policy of the UCLA Engineering Department has been to ignore the ratings hype, because they believed that the factors that make a good program can’t always be scored using the parameters that the US News uses. Those rankings were only meant as a guide. However in recent years, the lack of effort put into improving UCLA’s rating has hurt the perceived image of UCLA in the eyes of donors and potential students… Especially, in an environment where other universities were scratching and clawing to get every little ounce they could squeeze from the numbers. When a student is choosing a university, often the US News rankings are their only source for information. This has hurt UCLA’s scores in average incoming student SAT scores. Reality has caught up with UCLA Engineering. Now they have to play the game to survive.

by solidgoldsound on Jun 14, 2009 2:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The best indicators

are how many companies recruit from that school, the number of alums at those companies, and the reputation of grads at those companies. Maybe add in how grads do in grad school, etc. Anything else is pretty useless.

But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.

by tasser10 on Jun 16, 2009 10:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hi Fellow Bruins!

Hey Bruins – I just joined BN! Some of you may know me for my many farks which I had posted on numerous occassions over at BRO. By way of introduction, I’m a UCLA alum, psychobio major “many moons” ago. It’s just too easy to poke fun at suc.

Glad to be a part of this family.

by RXBruin on Jun 22, 2009 5:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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