Running Back Situation: Questions About Christian Ramirez

by Nestor on Aug 24, 2009 3:00 AM PDT in Football

Wanted to follow up on a specific story line from Saturday. Let's revisit and repost what CRN said leading up to the scrimmage about Christian Ramirez and our running game:

"He’s got to play tomorrow," Coach Rick Neuheisel said. "He has to play and play a significant amount." That means "with four backs, if we get 80-90 plays, I hope he can get somewhere around 10 carries." [...]

"Johnathan Franklin has had an unbelievable camp, and Milton Knox has been unbelievable," Neuheisel said. "What’s the pecking order? Everyone deserves a chance to show something."

Ramirez's chance needs to be Saturday.

"We can’t stir around and put a blind eye the way the other kids are running," Neuheisel said. "I think he is eager to get going and hopefully Chris gets rolling tomorrow night."

Well the scrimmage didn't go so well for Christian. From Chris Foster in the LA Times:

Christian Ramirez suffered what was called a mild sprained ankle in the first series and did not return. Ramirez, who tops the depth chart at tailback, has been slowed the past week with a sore hamstring. [...]

Redshirt freshman Johnathan Franklin had 99 yards rushing in six carries. That included a 60-yard touchdown run, though it came against the second team defense.

Asked whether Ramirez can miss anymore time, Neuheisel said, "It is what it is," adding, "We’re going to have to play any way."

In case you are wondering how the rushing game shaped up number wise, the official site posted the stats:

RUSHING
Johnathan Franklin-----6 rushes for 99 yards and one td
Milton Knox------9 rushes for 34 yards and no td
Derrick Coleman----5 carries for -6 yards and no td
Damien Thigpen----7 carries for 41 yards and no td
Christian Ramirez----2 carries for -1 yards and no td

Now let's keep some factors in perspective before I get to a poll question for this community, which hopefully will lead to a productive discussion. Carrying on after the flip.

As impressive Thigpen, Knox and even Franklin might have been keep in mind Ramirez and Coleman might have been going up against Price and the first time. I already talked about in my previous post about how offensive coaches keep the plays extremely vanially giving the defense an inherent advantage. So with that we have to keep the numbers for the first and second team RBs in perspective.

Still, now that is out of the way we have to revisit what CRN said leading up to the scrimmage (which I excerpted above). Given the fact that Neuheisel was going to use the scrimmage from yesterday to determine PT for other backs, I wonder if the rotation will look different for the San Diego State game.

I have added a poll below to take temperature of BN wrt to this question because I feel like this is the main issue out of the first two weeks of camp that is somewhat puzzling. I personally am in the not sure category because I am not comfortable chiming in a black and white way without seeing what Christian can do. I also trust Chow and Neuheisel to make the right decision. However, at the same time it is hard to miss the news Franklin, Knox and Coleman have been making from these camp. Plus Coleman's production as a freshman with last year's tattered line when he averaged almost 5 ypc, was nothing short of remarkable. So I can see why he has made a good case to headline the RB rotation.

What do you all think? I am especially interested in those who have been to practices frequently or more than twice in last two weeks. Do you think Coleman should get the start over Ramirez? Do you think Ramirez's workload should be reduced a bit and shifted a bit over to Franklin and Knox?

Let's hear it.

GO BRUINS.

Poll

Does Christian Ramirez deserve to start UCLA's first game of the season given his performance in first two weeks of fall camp and scrimmage?

Ramirez should get the start (provided he steps it up in practice next two weeks)

60 votes

Ramirez should come off the bench (backing up Colemand and Franklin)

232 votes

Ramirez's should get the start but get his workload reduced

44 votes

Not sure (haven't watched enough practice to weigh in decisively, I trust Chow and Neuheisel)

204 votes

540 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I’m a little worried about Ramirez. By all accounts, it’s his pass blocking that’s kept him in the starting job. I’ve been excited hearing about Thigpen & Franklin (Knox to a lesser extent) but it just seems like every time I hear about Ramirez it’s either to praise his blocking abilities or to describe his latest injury. In the end though, I’ll trust CRN & Chow’s much more informed judgment. They know what kind of player they need.

by impaulv on Aug 24, 2009 3:52 AM PDT reply actions

Like I said before --

if we had a reliable O line, the RB depth chart would be far different. Ramirez is holding his spot because of his blocking — and on this team, that’s legit.

If we had a strong O line, I think Andre Dean would have been our starter backed up by Knox or Franklin.

We will get to the point where, with a strong O line, these things are less important. Until then, I trust our coaches to put the right people in the right places.

sjh

by Class of 66 on Aug 24, 2009 6:22 AM PDT reply actions

Competition

If we are to believe what CRN and his staff have been preaching, that our guys will be competing for jobs, then I think you have to give the nod to the young guys. Franklin and Knox have just been more productive and provided more big play spark during practice and the scrimmage.

If you don’t give them the nod and at least push them up the depth chart and give them 5-6 touches a game, then the staff looses credibility and it becomes less about performance and more about seniority and incumbency. While you have to give a slight edge to older guys who have worked hard to get to the top of the depth charts, if they get outplayed, they need to step aside.

Plus, while I know our staff places a premium on a tailbacks ability to block, in the end you need a guy who can get through a crease, make guys miss and outrun DBs. Let your fullback block or use one of our several outstanding Tight ends to stay in and block. Or run a double TE set with one TE running a pattern and the other in to block.

Just my 2 cents.

by Bald Eagle on Aug 24, 2009 7:59 AM PDT reply actions

Best player and injury free

I haven’t been to any of the practices, but reading everyone chime in on the issue, I would support the staff starting the best player at this point and definitely someone who is injury free. Now, based on the Saturday’s scrimmage, that would mean Ramirez would have to ride the pine. I’m a little concerned about his health too. If he’s not 100%, then we have to go with the most healthy player now. I understand the need for a good blocker, but we also need players who can run the ball out of the backfield especially with the condition of our O-line. That makes players like Franklin, Knox and Thigpen that much more crucial. They have all demonstrated the ability to hit the holes hard, cut, change directions and break free for runs. That’s the type of running ability we need this year. I haven’t read any reports that have said that about Ramirez.

Again, my two cents based on reading all the posts here.

by Kerckhoff405 on Aug 24, 2009 8:41 AM PDT reply actions

Deciding who is best has to consider blocking as well

4/5 of our starting O-line was not on the team last year. Two were playing high school ball, one was sitting out his transfer ball, the other was at a JC. Until the line establishes that they can protect Prince we are going to need a TB that can help with that protection, especially with the two true freshman on Prince’s blindside. Having been to several practices and the scrimmage, I don’t have complete faith that Knox, Franklin, or Thigpen are up to that job yet. I have no doubt that Chow and Neu are going to find ways to get these guys touches, but Ramirez and Coleman have both shown that they can handle the blocking duties. Its also important to note, that they were getting the majority of their carries against Mr. Price and the 1st team D, against a lesser D (which should include just about every other team we face this year) the production will be better.

by BruinJD on Aug 24, 2009 8:50 AM PDT reply actions

Shared carries

Judging by what CRN is saying, it sounds like there will be a pretty even rotation at TB, so I’m not too worried about who starts (although it sounds like CRN wants to redshirt Thigpen). I would be surprised if Coleman/Franklin/Knox didn’t get a combined 10-12 carries. I trust that CRN and Chow know what they are doing.

It’s nice to have the kind of problem we have right now at TB (too many options), rather than the problems we have at DL and LB.

Go Bruins.

by hicalliber on Aug 24, 2009 9:20 AM PDT reply actions

Share the love: Fresh legs are never a bad thing

I think we should all remember that our OC is renowned for putting his players in situations where their particular strengths allow them to make plays naturally. When we need to pass block or catch out of the backfield, then we’ll go with Ramirez. If we need some speed then Franklin, Thigpen or Knox. If our OL is letting defenders walk thru, then Coleman will get the rock and fall forward.

Share the love: Fresh legs are never a bad thing.

by hwn44 on Aug 24, 2009 10:29 AM PDT reply actions