Ugly Bruins: Another Unfocused Effort For UCLA Basketball
I don't really want to spend too much thinking about our joke of a basketball team (at least the version made up of the current core) this Sunday. I do want to get some thoughts out of my head about last afternoon's expected debacle. First of all Penny2i has already made some astute observations about the game here. I agree with most of his points.
I still believe the key to all these debacles we are seeing this season (and I don't care much at this point for looking for silver linings in these predictable losses) is a lack of effort and focus. I believe they go together. We turned the ball over 22 times yesterday afternoon. 22 times!! Thinks about it. Essentially we squandered our chances of taking about 20 shots. If we connected on them 40 percent of times we would have had the chance to get around 16 points (we lost by 11). I mean. Really. Some of those TOs in second half were total jokes. The TV announcers who usually go out their way to be not overly critical of players and coaches, had to restrain themselves while commenting on Bruins, observing how we were just being "careless" with the ball. IMO this lack of focus goes to the heart of effort of this basketball team. It's just not there in a consistent basis. And that is mindbogglingly disappointing from a Ben Howland coached basketball team.
Speaking of a Ben Howland coached basketball team, let's look through the box score again. We shot 55% yesterday (to Stanford's 47%) and out-rebounded the Cardinal by 26-21. Yet, we looked hopelessly out of it in the second half with no chance to win. What is wrong with the picture? Well, it's because IMO Ben Howland has not been true to his original philosophy of putting together a basketball team that is grounded on defense and fundamentals. I think it is really sad that Ben Howland has decided to stray away from the principal of building a team around defense in recent years. It started last year when he would keep Josh Shipp and Jrue Holiday on the court, despite both of those guys not living up the tenets of Ben Ball warriors, and it has continued this year with his favorable treatment of ultimate anti-Ben Ball warriors such as Nikola Dragovic (I am really looking forward to "Senior Day").
Yesterday, I counted about 5 occasions when Rago got destroyed on the defensive end. Yet he was left in the game (guess in the hope of him getting lights out hot; don't worry he will get "hot" against Oregon State or something). Meanwhile, Lane and Bobo came in and seemed to get the hook immediately after making their first mistakes. The Bruins' defense actually stabilized a bit when Drago was benched after another horrific start yesterday (he has had only ONE good start the entire season, just ONE). Bruins actually finished the half within a point. Yet for some reason we never saw either Lane or Bobo in the second half, and we all know what transpired then.
I don't even know why I am letting myself getting frustrated over Dragovic. It's not going to matter much. He is going to keep playing 30+ mins this season and we will keep going through more humiliating defeats.Also, as I made clear in my post-game wrap it was the entire team that stunk up the joint. I guess I can take some comfort that we now have actual evidence of Honeycutt making a jump shot. Guess I can also make myself feel better thinking that Lee will eventually get comfortable at 1 and that Anderson is actually looking serviceable at times coming off the bench. It's not helping me all that much though.
This team just doesn't have "it." We could see it in their body language yesterday. Again. Yeah, I get the frustrations with the calls from SPTRs. On the other hand, I am starting to feel a little for these refs. I mean if you look at our guys - especially Jerime Anderson - they look like bunch of whiners on the court. He seems to argue every freaking call, roll his eyes, and give a look of entitled disdain. Newsflash for Jerime. He is no Farmar or Collison. He has ways to go before he gets those calls. He will only get tagged even more because the way he is going he will develop a reputation fast and referees hate whiners.
Also, in terms of body language, I saw absolutely no sense of urgency on how these guys were looking to execute on offense. That goes back to the point of effort and focus. For me they go together. I don't care much for "effort" when we flail around in a shot without any kind purpose. For me it's about zoning in and executing, while going all out on defense. How many times we have seen UCLA players dive on the ball for lose ball? Not that many and before Honeycutt got the starts we were not really seeing a lot of effort in the rebounding department either.
As I wrote last night, I don't expect these guys to beat Southern Cal. Southern Cal (10-6 and 2-2 in the Pac-10) is the better "team" because they actually play with more passion and purpose, and at least before the their "self-imposed" sanctions hit them they were the ones looking like on court version of Ben Ball warriors.
I have no doubt Ben Howland will be running tough and efficient practices this week in Westwood. However, I am pretty skeptical right now on whether he is getting through his players. I mean why should some of the underclassmen give their full effort and buy in, when they continue to see their head coach playing favorites with certain players who shows no regard or interest in playing defense.
Hard to stay motivated (for players and everyone associated with the program) when same debacle predictably takes place every week.
GO BRUINS.
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Have to agree with you N,
As an eternal optimist I kept looking for that breakout game and thought we had it (at least psychologically) v Cal. Yesterday finally deflated my hopes (for this season), though I still think we could end up at .500 with some luck and small increments of improvement. Despite the TO’s we almost led at half-time. I thought Green’s buzzer beater would be shrugged off. We had made a great inbounds play and score and should have been hyped coming out for round 2. But no such thing happened and I agree with you, its cause the team is soft. Did they expect Standford to fold the way Cal kindof did? Anyway, there is one thing I would ask of you from here on (since I see you are as resigned as ever) and that is to cut down on the Drago critiques. He’s but one of lots of problems and while not the greatest, he’s giving an equal effort (not saying much) as anyone. Focus more on letting the team know two things (1) when you are going to pass, know for sure you want to and where the pass is supposed to go, and (2) once you’ve made the decision to pass, do it with authority; this isn’t 6th grade girls basketball.
Drago is the poster child of this team's problem
He shouldn’t be in the starting lineup. By starting him Howland is sending the message he cares more about his “offense” (which has been productive in two halves this entire season) then a total commitment to team defense. As long as he starts and remains as one of the poster child of this team’s current “core,” I will keep expressing how I feel. Sorry.
No Point Guard
Nestor, I feel your pain. But I think your analysis of the cause is a bit off. First, I think it might make us feel good to think the talent and experience are there if only this team would get its head on straight. I wish that were true. Second, much of what afflicted this team yesterday in terms of the turnovers, wasted offensive possessions, etc. can be specifically tied to our lack of a good (not great, even, but just “good”) point guard. A solid point guard would control the basketball for us, and keep it out of the hands of players that shouldn’t be handling it. Neither JA or ML are remotely effective at the PG position. That means not only is the basketball not safe in their hands, but players who are not any better at protecting it end up with far more touches than they should. I guy like MR should get the ball when he’s in a position to shoot, or get it when he’s in a position to pump fake and pass. Absent a good point guard, he has way too many touches at points on the court where he’s not an offensive threat. That’s just one example. Here’s hoping Zeke Jones fixes this problem for us next year.
One of the bricks in John Wooden’s Pyramid of Success reads: “Don’t mistake activity for achievement.” Watching the team yesterday, they brought the effort. But they were ineffective at protecting the basketball and capitalizing on defense that was reasonably effective (albeit not as good as we’ve come to expect under Howland.) When you out rebound your opponent and shoot over 50%, you clearly showed up to play. But on one end of the court, we were seriously deficient. I’m not happy about it, but it is what it is. And while there is no silver lining to losing at UCLA, I have to say I like what I’m seeing in terms of the development from RN and TH. Even ML is showing improvement from game to game to game.
Young, inexperienced teams will play like this. I expect a big change next year. Our only experienced players are role players, and the fact that they have been thrust into leadership positions in terms of playing time and scoring leaders is part of our problem. These are our problems.
by Bruin Die Hard on Jan 10, 2010 10:10 AM PST reply actions
Then let's get ready our talented players for next year
By giving them experience. Our “experienced” players are not getting us the "W"s. So let’s go with our young talent. I am ok with some of the mistakes Lee made. As Penny laid out, some of them were not even his fault. But what doesn’t make sense is why Lane (and Bobo) didn’t see the court in second half. Right now I am not seeing any rationale basis in Howland’s substitution pattern (it’s not making any sense).
I am somewhat puzzled too
It seems odd to me that players can get on the court in the first half and not the second. (Particularly Bobo, for me – I think he brings something different offensively, and is our only genuinely big body defensively).
Two possible thoughts:
1) in the first half, with a lot of the game still to go, you might limit minutes of your starters to keep them from picking up a cheap foul here or there; then, in the second half, you sub them out if they get into foul trouble but otherwise let them play. The point being, the closer you get to the end of the game with only a small number of fouls, the more confident you can be about leaving a player in the game, whereas CBH may wish to play it safe earlier in the game. (This at least gives a theoretical optimization-under-uncertainty reason why he would (tend to) play a larger rotation in the first half than in the second (on average).
2) early in the game, he may wish to get starters off the court to communicate something to individual players, or perhaps to a couple of players, without using a timeout. Again, the value of giving a player information or instruction may be higher the sooner you can give it – so there may be more reason to sub out RN or ND in the first half to communicate some information to set them up for the next (say) 30 minutes of the game, compared with subbing them out in the second half and giving them instruction that can only help them for the last (say) 10 minutes of the game.
I’m not suggesting either of these are good ideas, or how CBH ‘ought’ to use his rotations; just trying to think out possible thought processes that could lead him to use them in the way he currently does.
by britishbruin on Jan 10, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Bobo is still a disaster...
…the fact that he’s better than last year doesn’t mean he’s good. The guy is trying, but remains a huge liability on both ends of the floor. He needs to show he deserves the playing time to get more of it.
by Bruin Die Hard on Jan 10, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
I am big a Bobo skeptic as anyone
and I am not particularly making a case for more playing time for Bobo (though I think his performance in limited time has improved as the season has gone on, that he looks more in tune with the team at both ends of the court than earlier, etc). All I am trying to do is suggest reasons why Bobo and Lane are apparently good enough to play a few minutes in a first half but no minutes in a second half.
by britishbruin on Jan 10, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Count me as a Bobo skeptic as well
However, I think Penny’s observations about him doing all right when he was on the court has some merit. At least based on what I saw yesterday. Surprised he didn’t make it back in. Lane had a screwup on defense but he also made some plays to merit additional mins.
Bob's mistakes in the second half ...
…could be a lot more harmful than in the first half, when there is time to overcome then. He needs to improve footwork, stop holding the ball down low where it can get stripped, and learn how to use his body to box out. Again, he’s showing improvement, but his performance doesn’t yet merit crunch time minutes.
by Bruin Die Hard on Jan 10, 2010 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
Wasn't asking for crunch time mins (in last 5-7 mins of the game)
Wouldn’t have hurt to see how he performed for few mins in the first part of second half.
it boggles my mind
Cause I don’t understand the substitution pattern right now.
Bobo swished those 2 FT’s (something I haven’t seen all year) and gets pulled immediately?
You mean, I hit my FT’s and did what I needed to on the court and I get pulled for one mistake? But you leave Drago in?
Nobody says throw em in during crunch time, but a few minutes in the 2nd half could not have hurt, especially when it was clear the unit out there wasn’t getting it done. If we aren’t giving up on the season, but the current unit isn’t working, why are we staying with the current unit?
And for the young players, getting yanked like that, talk about a confidence killer…
i do remember being really surprised that he swished both FT's
…it was kind of refreshing too see that happen for a change
um
So, if we pull young players after making a mistake, then we think we are scaring them because they are worried that one small mistake will doom them;
but if we pull young players when they have made a good contribution for a few minutes, then we are killing their confidence.
The message I take from this is that CBH should never play any young players, as he can’t pull them if they play badly or if they play well. He seems to bring back his starters regardless of whether the bench is doing well or badly; his substitutions seem to be more about resting starters or keeping them out of trouble, with the spells of the bench players not hugely affected by their performance.
Whether or not this is bad, or whether or not this lets the bench guys ever really get into the rhythm of the game, can we at least choose (no more than) one of the following things to complain about:
Either (a) CBH demoralizes young players by pulling them for bad performance
Or
b) CBH demoralizes young players by not rewarding them for good performance
It is cognitively dissonant for us to complain about both.
by britishbruin on Jan 10, 2010 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
not quite...
In the example above, Bobo did perform good given his few minutes, but was pulled after a mistake on the other end, whereas we saw Dragovic and others screw up repeatedly on both ends of the ball, but it wasn’t a big deal…
So we’re not quite arguing (a) or (b) – but whether players should be given more or less play time, and whether the leash needs to be so short for young players when older players can seem to get away with anything
It’s understandable when we are thin at guard and we have to play through the mistakes of the 3 guards we have, but bigs are where we have a lot of bodies
I know CBH is trying to rest his starters and keep them out of foul trouble (didn’t seem to help yesterday though), but that doesn’t answer whether those upper classmen should be getting as much play time as they are
ok
I guess it’s not clear to me that the young players are getting yanked for mistakes if they are only getting a short amount of time of play regardless of how well they are performing. It seems CBH has decided that he wants 30+ mins from ML, MR, ND, RN (fouls permitting), and so only uses the young players in short bursts to rest his starters. So characterizing it as a ‘short leash’ (ie not allowed many mistakes before being disciplined) does not seem so obviously right to me. If you are intending to play someone for 30 minutes in a game, it stands to reason they will make a few mistakes before being removed from the court, and that someone playing in a 3 minute burst will make few mistakes – and maybe not ANY mistakes – before being pulled.
If your case is that other players are just as good as the starters and should get more playing time, that’s totally fine. My comment above took what you had said as the jumping off point – juxtaposing hitting FTs and STILL being removed – but it was based also on reading some of the game thread where people did seem to take the line that CBH subbing out a bench player without them having made a mistake was a terrible piece of personnel management. If we think CBH is reacting to how the bench players are playing when deciding exactly when to bring back in his best players (and I don’t think he does, much), then I’m just suggesting a little consistency in whether we like him giving people more minutes for good play and less for bad play, or prefer him not to pull them for mistakes (and hence not play them extra for good play).
by britishbruin on Jan 10, 2010 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
While I also would like to see these frosh get more time...
…I don’t doubt that performance in practice in part governs who we see on the court — and when we see them. I doubt the coach is playing RN and TH simply because he thinks they’re better or wants to give prized recruits playing time. I have to think they’re proving in practice that they deserve it.
Aside from that, Howland may feel it’s too early in the season to give up on this year and start playing for next year. I don’t necessarily disagree with you that Drago deserves less playing time than he gets. But aside from him, who else is there to bench? Roll deserves the playing time he gets based on what I’ve seen so far this year.
by Bruin Die Hard on Jan 10, 2010 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
I have to agree 100%
Look over cross town…SUC really has a team with mediocre talent. However, with an addition of one competent point guard, they seem like a 1op 25 team…this is with a new coach! Our guards are not natural ball handlers, leaders, game managers. The turnovers are almost always initiated by the point guards: poor passes, inability to read defenses, poor decisions with the ball, driving in and not knowing what to do when defense closes in.
I’m going to have to say it again. I put the blame on CBH only because his staff failed at evaluating talent. It is impossible to coach a player like JA or even ML to be as good as Chris Paul or even a level headed DC. It’s a gift and our guards don’t have it and no matter what coach we have, it will not happen. We just have to be better at choosing our recruits when it comes to our point guards.
a go to guy
I will also add that we don’t have a go to guy…every top 10 team has a go to guy in crunch time…we don’t have one. Who will take our last shots? MR? TH? ND?
Sorry, I didn't mean to say "giving an equal effort as anyone"
I do so lots more effort from RN, TH, ML and MR. It’s just that I think ND gets the brunt of all criticism and it should be shared amongst the “team.”
bobo
Personally I think bobo does not earn minutes due to practice because he is probably unable to preform the duties required of a center in a howland defense. That is he can’t play that hedge off the high screen at all the way he wants a center to do it.
I get that CBH wants a center to be able to defend 25 feet from the basket to play that defense, but your personnel is not always suited to that. It took Love far too long to get minutes his freshman year precisely for that reason. At the end of the day however Love was awesome, so he had to get just a little better to get the minutes. Bobo is never going to be good at that and he is not overwhelmingly talented, but sometimes you have to adjust what you are doing to get people in the game that can help you in other ways.
I am pretty sure for instance Aaron Gray had Howland stayed in Pitt would not have seen the court his entire career. But Dixon allowed him the minutes and made him quite effective for them in my opinion.
We also have had the luxury of the Prince to bail out our high hedge in years past. His help defense with our center that far away from the hoop has been critical. It allowed UCLA to defend teams that would slip the screener down the lane (think back to miss st. and Varnado going through the lane unabashed on a catch and dunk). The reality is however that Luc well not come along very often in a coaching career. Personally I think when you have a big center you don’t drag him that far away from the basket. We have bobo and we recruited Josh Smith who will have no more success I would guess then bobo covering that. We shall see if that will remain a staple of our man-2-man or he will gameplan a little differently to take advantage of some thick bigs that are tough to keep out of the lane.
funny you should say that
I had commented earlier on the Cal game (I think) that one of the positives was Bobo playing the hedge perfectly on one defensive series. We still gave up a basket, but it wasn’t his fault…
But I think your point is absolutely valid.
by britishbruin on Jan 10, 2010 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Substitions vs. The "Best" Unit (Warning: long history post)
Warning: This is a long post. Skip the history lesson and go to the bottom if you want, but the history points make good discussion to the question.
I touched on this in another thread, but your Aaron Gray example has got me thinking again.
We’ve already touched on the fact that Coach Howland’s reputation in college basketball so far has been one of a builder. He built Northern Arizona up and left after his 5th year. He built Pitt up and left after his 5th year. Now, he is on his 7th season at UCLA, which is uncharted territory for him.
The question now isn’t whether he can build a program – we saw that he could with 3 consecutive Final Fours – but whether he can maintain it and develop it. And this period is particularly of interest, because it will give a lot of insight into his team philosophy that we have yet to see.
What I mean by this is that prior to this, both at the other 2 schools and here at UCLA, his 5th year coincides with his first season where all the possible players (barring redshirts) are his recruits.
Starting last year, and in particular this year, we’ve begun to wonder about CBH’s substitution patterns, and if indeed, this is a part of his coaching philosophy. A lot of the attention in particular is on Dragovic, but also on Keefe, in which we see older players getting a lot of play time at the expense of younger, less experienced but possibly more talented players, despite the numerous deficiencies in the upper classmen’s game.
History lesson starts here
To illustrate this, let’s take a look back at history. Entering the 2004-05 season, Howland brought in his first class, and finally had players that he could call his. Given how bare in talent the team was due to the prior lack of a coach, it was understandable that Howland gave the starting jobs to his class, which also had much more talent.
That year, as freshmen, Farmar and Afflalo started 29 of 29 games, and Shipp stated 23 of 29 games. As a freshman, Mata-Real saw action in 21 of 29 games, and played 9.7 minutes per game. Of course, Bozeman was also injured for the season, which might have changed these numbers up a bit, but from all reports, Farmar was more than talented enough to have taken the job outright from the start.
Now going into the 2005-2006 season, we see Howland with 2 classes under his belt, now including DC, LRMAM, MR and PAA. Again, with a lack of talent in the upper classmen, it was easy for the newcomers to get big minutes. As we remember Josh Shipp was injured early and out for the season after just 4 starts, but Bozeman was healthy and 30 of the 31 games he played in. With a lack of a player that can fit the 4, LRMAM, as also the most talented of those players eligible to play the 4, saw himself in the starting rotation from the get-go.
What’s important to take from this season that we all remember, but many forget, is how involved our freshmen and sophomores were involved. We saw DC even get 2 starts when Farmar was out, and DC averaged 19.2 minutes per game in all 39 games that season. Roll even got 5 starts, PAA got 2, and yes, even Ryan Wright saw 4 starts. Yes, the Ryan Wright that saw even 9.8 minutes per game in the 31 games he saw action in – and his minutes per game actually peaked during conference play, slowly tapering off with postseason play understandably.
Sure non-conference schedule and blowouts will skew the numbers for certain players, and towards the end of the season we narrowed the rotation down to a few players, but it’s still amazing to see that by the end of the season, the entire team rotation was mainly freshmen and sophomores, with Hollins and Bozeman our only upper classmen getting any significant playtime.
Now let’s move forward another year – 2006-2007. With Hollins and Bozeman graduating (as well as other seniors), and Farmar jumping to the NBA, we brought in Westbrook, Keefe, Dragovic.
What’s interesting to see is that at this point, most of the players were Howland’s own, and indeed the same starting 5 started every game all season: AA, DC, LRMAM, LMR, and JS, with the exception of MR, RW, and PAA getting one start each during the entire season. As we all recall, we made it to the FF that year, despite a seeming lack of depth all year.
Part of why we all saw RW explode “out of nowhere” the next year was because we barely saw him at all his freshman year – he only got 9 minutes per game, although he appeared in every game. He was of course very raw then as well, and in his first and only start of the season, DC was out and we had that disastrous 1-11 shooting game against WVU (though we forget that he also got 5 rebounds, and 4 assists on the road as a freshman against an experienced Beilein team, something we can never seem to beat).
Interestingly enough, as a freshman, we see that Keefe got 6.8 minutes per game in 32/36 games that year. Dragovic appeared in only 6 games that season, getting 4.3 minutes. Ryan Wright, now a second year, saw his play time actually decrease to just 28/36 games at 5.4 minutes per game, which is probably why he decided to leave the team after this season. The vast vast majority of post minutes went to LMR and PAA, with LRMAM filling in as well.
Despite having essentially just a 7-man rotation with little post play, we beat KU to go to the FF, where our lack of depth burned us once AA was given those quick fouls early against Florida and we never recovered.
Now the next year comes in, and we see Wright transfer and Afflalo jump to the NBA. We also bring in uber-frosh KLove as well as Stanback. So Westbrook fills right into for Afflalo, starting in 34/39 games that season. However, we forget a few things that transpired ealry in the season: Michael Roll was injured at only saw 6 total games in the middle of December, after missing the start of the season, before he went out and red shirted.
Why is this interesting? Because we may never know if Roll, being more experienced than Westbrook, might have taken more play time early on from RW. Many people, CBH included, were surprised to see how quickly RW exploded onto the scene – but how much of it was the fact that we simply had no one else to fill and RW got the chance? Would we have seen a similar situation where a less talented but more experienced upper classman got play time over a more talented but inexperienced younger player, as we’ve seen this year? Well, obviously we will never get to find out for that year, and RW more than earned his spot as a starter in the rotation permanently.
Interesting notes on this season, Keefe moved up to 11.7 minutes per game after missing numerous games due to injury. Dragovic saw 9.2 mpg in 25 games, thankfully most of them being early in the season. Stanback only saw 25 games, and went from 10+ minutes per game in non-conference down to just 5.8 minutes per game by the end of the season, meaning he saw even less time. At that time, we all thought… well it’s obviously a lot of that is due to non-conference blowouts vs. tight conference games.
Now where does all this lead to? Well, Love came in and while he got to start basically off the bat, we saw early on that he got pulled often for LMR for defensive shortcomings and for looking like he was out of shape early on. However, Love, who has a great basketball IQ, quickly learned the system – and quite frankly, his skills on offense and on the boards more than overcame any defensive deficiencies he had.
Now why is this an interesting point? As Penny2i wrote about Aaron Gray, there are players that might not have fit in with Howland’s style of defense and what was required – but the question I wonder is, does occasionally missing a hedge, or an assignment, mean that that player needs to be pulled despite everything else he brings to the table?
To those familiar to baseball, they will understand this question easily: does the overall sum of the player warrant play time on the field over the deficiencies they may have? Manny Ramirez has a truly amazing all-time bat, but is an absolute butcher in the field and has issues off the field, but during his career, managers played him because his bat trumped all those other issues. Likewise, Ozzie Smith was a wizard with the glove and never had much of a bat, but his defensive prowess made up for his shortcomings on offense and he saw himself a Hall of Fame career.
Now those are extreme cases, but they apply to basketball as well. KLove, despite his defensive shortcomings (particularly early on in the season), was in a whole ’nother world with scoring, passing and rebounding and CBH would have been clinically insane to not play him over missing a hedge or defensive lapses. Likewise, LMR and PAA (til his senior year) were no threat on offense, but their defensive skill meant big play time.
End history lesson-
This question has two parts. First is, what do we do about players in the “gray zone” – that zone where they might not be such all-stars on one end of the ball, but might have an overall package good enough to play. And the second part is, should these players be getting more play time to build experience over upper classmen who aren’t doing that much better.
Some prime examples: does Dragovic’s offense (debate-able that he even has a good one) trump his lackadaisical play on defense? Does Bobo missing a hedge or being raw on offense trump his size and shot blocking ability, particularly during the zone? Does Lane’s defensive shortcomings trump his offense or the benefit of learning as a freshman?
Looking back during our FF years, we were always under the impression that Howland was willing to play freshman and other underclassmen over upper classmen based on defensive skill.
These past two seasons have thrown a wrench into that theory. Looking back, I can also see another theory being valid. That Howland played the underclassmen when he had no other choice – when the upperclassmen are utterly devoid of talent (04-06), when there are injuries or vacancies (LRMAM taking the 4 spot his freshman year, RW subbing for DC his first year, RW sliding right in to AA’s spot), or when the underclassmen’s talent is just too obvious to ignore (Love over LMR for example, RW if MR were competing for the starting spot which never happened). When those things worked out in the past, we never questioned it because it was simply never an issue.
Now? Seeing Dragovic get 30 minutes a game over underclassmen who may not be as experienced, but may be giving more effort is throwing everything I’ve thought into a funk. For that matter, seeing at the history of how Howland was once willing to give freshmen significant play time off the bench (for crying out loud, Ryan Wright got nearly 10 mins per game in his freshman year, but somehow Bobo can’t even get 8 in his sophomore year?) What’s are they doing different or has something changed?
I am a firm believer that first-hand experience is the best teacher, and from what I’ve seen so far, most of the young players seem to relish the play time they do get on the court, but all too quickly they get yanked over one thing, whereas upper classmen can do a hack job and keep getting play time (Dragovic and Shipp last year).
It was easy to dismiss the transfers of players like Wright and Stanback as guys who didn’t want to learn the Howland method of defense, or didn’t want to wait to earn play time, but if asked about why now, I’m not sure I can answer that’s 100% the case – especially as I continue to see young players get yanked quickly while the older guys play awfully.
The year is still young, and we still have next year, but I’m definitely going to pay more attention to Howland’s substitution patterns, play time distribution, and see where his philosophy on player development lies. Does he reward his own recruits play time based on seniority? Does it take obvious amazing talent to overcome it? What to him is his “best unit” on the floor?
Because now is the first time in Coach Howland’s career that he is no longer just building a program – but now he has to retain players and manage issues such as seniority vs. youth talent, experience vs. inexperienced, and these will be some telling years.
you're right to a point
CBH had some fortunate transitions in his early years; he started with a relatively bare cupboard that allowed JF/AA/JS to play significant minutes their freshman year alongside one experienced and talented senior, who then left. Ced then came back from injury to fill one starting spot, and LRMAM got a spot when JS wasn’t able to start (and, though it is now forgotten, PAA was injured at the start of his freshman year and might have started at PF ahead of LRMAM). And so it continued, with injuries/redshirting/NBA departures actually allowing a smooth transition of talent/experience each year.
Your history lesson is accurate. But all it really says is: we’ve never had this type of roster before, so assumptions about CBH’s philosophy drawn from the past may have to be questioned. But it is from the same history that I see no contradiction in his current rotations, as (I believe) he has always selected the team that (he believes) gives him the best chance of a successful season, and has confined ‘development’ minutes to the preseason. He has never given raw players extra minutes in the Pac-10 season because of “planning for next year” as some on this thread suggest he should now do. It is unclear that he thinks that playing time in Pac-10 games for any of the Freshmen will make much of a developmental difference compared with a year of training, a summer of weights and workouts and coming back stronger as sophomores and getting playing legs under them in the non-conference schedule.
Yes, ND and MR are getting big minutes as senior starters. However, TH and RN are also getting minutes as starters ahead of JK. Is this because RN and TH are uber-talents whose transcendence can overcome a CBH bias in favor of playing time for seniors? Or is it because they are the best players at their position and CBH just plays his best unit?
Do JMM and BL exude such hustle on the court that you know they are trying harder than ND and MR? They play a few minutes a game, but they don’t seem to bring much energy onto the court with them, perhaps because they are having to think too much about what they are supposed to be doing, perhaps because they are not in great physical condition, perhaps because they’re not hustling all that hard; who knows?
It seems like the freshmen with talent and obvious on-court hustle are playing – and displacing more senior players (JK and JA) from the starting lineup to do so; the young bigs, who still look confused at both ends of the court despite presumably attending practice regularly, are not getting on the court. I don’t understand the collective existential crisis over this issue, beyond the fact that people who see ND, JMM and BL a lot less each week than CBH think that ND needs to be evicted from the team so we can start planning for next year, by handing our experience to two young bigs, of whom at most one and possibly neither are expected to play starters minutes next year. How much development time is worth putting into next year’s bench?
by britishbruin on Jan 10, 2010 6:04 PM PST up reply actions
Stanford Open Thread
Not sure if it was done on purpose or accident and went unnoticed but I was just catching up on BN posts and find it appropriate, amusing, and at the same time kind of sad as to where our minds are that the UCLA vs Stanford open thread is under the Football category. Haha.
by NoOceanJustLakers on Jan 10, 2010 1:11 PM PST reply actions
As far as Bobo goes
Like everyone else I noticed he swished those two free throws, an invaluable talent for a big man who just needs to go to the basket and dunk or get fouled in crunch time.
As for his inability to “hedge” on defense at the top of the key, I don’t seem to remember Coach Wooden requiring that of any of his centers. Nothing wrong with keeping a big man below the top of the key on defense to clog up the middle.
I have no idea if Bobo deserves to play based on his practice effort, but when he is in he seems to make an effort to me.
What do the rest of you think?
I am not thinking of putting him for RN. RN should just move to PF. Those two together could be a powerful combo. Then ND, when he is hot, MR and ML can be our main three point shooters.
ND should get the quick hook whenver he throws up bricks or does one of his unfocused passes or defensive blunders IMO.
Bruins- Howland
I am a Bruin fan living in Pittsburgh and I think that the program is at a crossroad.
Ben needs to make a choice, does he want to have a team like John Calipari that brings in one and done players ( with questionable character) but has a shot at the final four every year or does he want to keep his and Jamie Dixon’s philosophy of getting players that fit your system.
I know that most Bruin fans think that you can do both I disagree.
As long as the NBA keeps their current rules the one year players want to come in score a lot of points and head to the NBA.
Pitt fans complain that they never get the 4 and 5 star recruits but Dixon is always competitive. They are off to another great start with not much real talent on that team.
I think that it is time that Ben seriously looks at what direction he wants to go in.
Not true at all
You don’t need to have a team like Calipari’s to have a shot at the final four every year. That’s completely ridiculous and here’s why: Tom Izzo, Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Jim Calhoun. Those guys have a shot every year, are the face of the program at their school and do things THE RIGHT WAY. Calipari is not the face of the Kentucky program. He is someone they brought in to appease their fans’ expectations. Ben Howland will soon be in the same league as those other coaches, will have built the UCLA program the right way.
Ben doesn’t need to look at what direction he wants to go in. He just has to keep recruiting his type of players.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just the 800 lbs bruin in the room.
My God , Such Whinning
The Bruins have continued to show IMPROVEMENT and will probably end up in the middle of the pack in the Pac 10. TH is proving that he is a valuable Div. I player and RN continues to be a valuable bull in the china shop. Roll and Dragovic have started to hit their shots, and incredibly JA has also started to make baskets. Yes, they were horribly careless with the ball, which CBH will work on endlessly until they get it right. We actually had some offense in this game. Compare it to the first ten games of the season where we looked like we couldn’t beat Mater Dei or Westchester. It would be nice to have the top talent every year, and some of our recruits have been mistakes, but you can see the results of all the hard work. We can compete in the Pac 10 now. We are in the middle of the Pac and improving. Our young players are getting massive amount of playing time, but we can’t win unless Drago and Roll are hitting. Roll has been phenomenal.
Would I like to be dominant, yes. Do you remember Bruin basketball before CBH? Cmon. I love my coach and my team. Go Bruins.

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