Pregame Guesses: Special Norm Chow Edition
by Achilles on Jan 14, 2010 3:53 PM PST
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Rick Neuheisel - 2, Lane Kiffin - 0
It only four months ago that Rick Neuheisel led the Bruins into Neyland Stadium, coming away with 19-15 victory over the Tennessee Volunteers who were momentarily led by Kiffin. Now, Neuheisel has bested his new crosstown rival a second time as Bruins offensive coordinator Norm Chow announced his intentions to remain in Westwood to finish what he's started while rejecting overtures from USC.
Make no mistake, Chow's decision to remain a Bruin means much more than the most basic fact: that Chow will continue to call plays from the press box in the Rose Bowl. Because beyond that very significant realization, this was a very public defeat of a program that is used to getting whatever it wants, whenever it wants it.
Anyone who has been reading this site for the past 48 hours knows the details -- too numerous to recount here. But the bottom line is that USC Athletic Director Mike Garrett desperately wanted Chow to return and he made no secret of this fact as he marshaled the collective voices of the usual cast of Trojan shills in the media (see: Smith, Shelley; Wolf, Scott; and so on). The stories were persistent and to the uninitiated believable: USC was said to be willing to pay Chow up to 1.5 million dollars a year to work for Lane Kiffin. Even Neuheisel acknowledged on the Dan Patrick Show that he couldn't stand in the way of a coach who got a financial offer too good to refuse.
While this was all going on, Nestor and the rest of the BN front pagers (except me -- though Nestor tells me I was there in spirit) spent several days refuting the rumors and shooting down every distortion the media tossed out. In fact, Bruins Nation's margin of victory over ESPN and the Daily News might have been larger than Neuheisel's over Kiffin.
In the end, Neuheisel had no call to stand in Norm Chow's way. Chow decided to stay at UCLA and for all I know never even got the much reported offer from USC. What I do know is that it's now apparent that USC doesn't just get whatever it wants, even when they're willing to dip into the slush fund.
There is something else that has become apparent to me and I confess it's not something I ever knew before. Let me share that and the guesses right after the jump.
Everyone hates USC.
See, I live in Los Angeles and this is not so obvious here. In Southern California, there is no shortage of USC fans and in some areas of the Southland, USC fans are as ubiquitous as roaches on a trash heap. If just wasn't clear to me how disliked the Trojans really are. But I spent much of December and early January near the beach hotels where first the Oregon and Ohio State fans were staying and later the Texas and Alabama fans stayed and I had the chance to chat many of them up.(The weren't hard to spot -- it seems like there is some rule for fans attending BCS bowls that mandates they dress up in school colors from head to toe at all times.)
Here is basically how those conversations went:
Me: "Hi, you here for the game?"
Them: "Yep."
Me: "You'll like the Rose Bowl, I'm a UCLA fan and we play all our games there."
Them: "I can't wait. It looks so cool on TV."
Me; "I guess we have another thing in common."
Them: "What's that?"
Me: "We both hate USC ..."
Them (with a smile): "Omigod, yes, I hate those guys ..."
And they'd just go off. By the end of the conversation, they'd be offering their condolences to me for having to live in the same city as USC, for having to live in such close proximity to so many Trojans.
Eventually, it dawned on me.
It's not just UCLA fans that hate USC.
Everyone hates USC.
They are hated, perceived as an arrogant, rogue program with no class and no manners. I had thought that maybe the other BCS regulars harbored some mutual respect for SC, but this is not the case. More accurately, USC is the mob boss who feigns legitimacy by joining the local chamber of commerce. The chamber might be forced to admit them, but they won't shake their hands or invite them into their homes for cocktail parties.
And everyone is waiting for the authorities to bust them so we won't have to see or hear from them any more.
Now, if the numerous posts from the MSM linked on this site in the past few days are any indication, the most hated program in college football has just hired the most hated coach in college football.
With that, here are your Pregame Guesses, Norm Chow edition:
- Describe the sanctions USC is about to receive from the NCAA in terms of years of probation and scholarships lost.
- How many secondary violations will Lane Kiffin and his staff commit between now and Letter of Intent Day.
- Will Lane Kiffin still be head coach at USC three years from now or will even the Trojans feel the need to get rid of him, sort of like Tony Soprano killing off his cousin Tony Blundetto?
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Cheaty
In our household, even after all these years, hatred of U$C has reached epic levels. This last year, has increased it infiinitely due PC’s classless actions. Great summary, we need to spray some RAID on all the roaches crawling around southern Cali. CRN & CNC need to finish the deathblow to USC that the rest of the Pac-10 started.
please clarify point 2
“How many secondary violations will Lane Kiffin and his staff commit between now and Letter of Intent Day”
How many will they commit, or how many will eventually be reported?
I'd like to pose another question
how do we keep the Raider fan bandwagon jumpers away from the UCLA parade?
class of '99
As a ambassador for raider fans everywhere
i will tell them to stay with those SC honks
"I can't believe I ate the whole thing" Homer Simpson
Votes
1) 3 years with an option for the Death Penalty as they will continue to cheat even on probation
2) 10 scholies per year…Bu$$ will simply contribute money to fund a series of Jerry Bu$$ scholies to make up for the difference
3) No way…PC’s term in the NFL will be up by then and he will bump Lame to the curb to restore order
That's what I get for blogging at work...
2) 6+ probably have already been committed by Ogre-ron
by bruinlifer91 on Jan 14, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
Kiffin
He was over-rated because he was the OC for a National Championship team. Al Davis made a foolish gamble on him that made him an NFL coach for one year. On the strength of that, he got his job at Tennessee. Nevertheless, if he was still at USC they would have probably given him this shot. They will still have talent, and he may bring others recruited from Tennessee. We can only hope that recruits on the fence now come to us to even the talent pool. Then its up to CRN and CNC. We have an even playing field for once, and it might be better if there are some well deserved sanctions. In any case, Bruins nation is better off. I hope the trojies fall on their face, but its just wait and see at this point.
Please post your comment in another thread
If you don’t have any response to the questions in the post above. It looks like as if you didn’t bother to read what A wrote.
TV issue and bowl games etc.
I can’t even fake an accurate guess.
But here’s problem with pulling the trojans from TV games. If the trojans can’t appear in tv games, we lose revenue from the thumpings which begin December 4. Am I right or am I wrong? Forbidding TV appearances punishes the victims of the trojan’s unrelenting corruption. Maybe the answer is no tv revenue.
But one can guess they won’t see the Rose or any other Bowl for 3 years (except when they show up to get it from us); i.e. no post season for 3 years?
I like bruinlifer91’s option of hanging the death penalty over their heads—cause they ain’t gonna make probation.
15 secondary violations—yopu gotta think big and your gotta have faith.
spell check
The last sentence really is, “15 secondary violations—you gotta think big and you gotta have faith.” It really says that. You computer must have one of those weird spelling viruses.
TV issues
I may write something in the next couple of days detailing the options that the NCAA has regarding sanctions. From what I have found so fat, I think the NCAA has (unofficially) stopped imposing TV bans on major (1-A, or at least BCS-conference) programs. While Eastern something-or-other State got hit with a TV ban last year for a moderate level violation, Alabama suffered no TV restrictions whatsoever when its program nearly got killed off early in the last decade.
formerly bruinhoo
Just off the cuff
1) Alabama-like: 5 years probation, 21 scholies over 3 years, 2 year ban on postseason, vacated wins and return of all postseason money
2) 5, but 20 if you count everything from Tuesday morning.
3) No way, but somehow, he’s managed to become the head coach of the Lakers.
What I hear...
….is that CNC realized he couldn’t pass up an opportunity to coach offense at the same school as Drago. ;)
1. 5 years probation, 5 scholarships each of those years, no vacated wins or money. I have no faith in the NCAA.
2. 10
3. Yes because no real coach is ever going to get anywhere close to that program for a good amount of time.
Figured you would like that
It is strange though how a 1 star serbian role player has become the focal point of UCLA athletics. Dare I say ND is the new Chuck Norris (at least in a bizarro way). ;)
"when ND just LOOKS at a man...
… they fall backwards into a glass cabinet"
by britishbruin on Jan 15, 2010 6:15 AM PST up reply actions
Same thoughts.
Exactly what I was thinking except 3… Don’t think Kiffin can keep his mouth shut in front of the NCAA.
Chow is loved and appreciated/$UC despied and laughable
Coach Chow is an asset, has been and will continue to be in the years to come. Thanks Coach. There are pockets of $C fans all over Southland but go to otherparts of our country and little repect for their teams or their program. As far as Shelly Smith goes, when I saw it was her who was the reporter to ESPN I knew something was not right. How many uninformed and irrelevant talking heads can one place have. If Lame Infraction steps even slightly over the line as we all know he will I hope LA media, ESPN etc bring it to the front. There can be no more pleas of ignorance of rules as it seems he and SC have violated most of them.
oh and to respond to the thread
1) 3 yrs probation, 5 scholies, and reggie bush year gone
2) my tracker can’t count that high
3) Let’s hope so. Let’s hope they give kiffykins a 5 year trial
nice
1) death penalty… 3 years
2) 1
3) no (due to the death penalty… but he wouldn’t have made it three years anyways)
Yes, I am taking a huge leap and putting unwarranted faith in the ncaa.
(1) More than you think; (2) Less than you think; (3) What do you think?
(1) As NC staying with us restored my faith in humanity, I will say:
(a) 4 years probation;
(b) 5 scholarships taken away for each of the next 3 years, and the 4th through 7th years being capped so they can’t just get a whole bunch of partial scholarships added on for all the ones they lost (i.e. a missing 2010 scholie doesn’t become a 1-year scholie in 2013);
© recruiting days reduced by 10 each year; and
(d) vacated Bush junior season (since I think that’s when the allegations arose and he got most of the hype), but not all of his years.
I don’t think they’ll chop off postseason play so as not to penalize current guys and give poor, poor Kiffy a break.
(2) Four. Seriously, not as much, because “Tennessee wasn’t under a microscope.”
(3) Yes. I said NC restored my faith in humanity. I never had any in $C.
M
"In this program your passion bucket must be full to play SC." -- CRN, to Dan Patrick, 1/2008
First column of answers
is what I think they will get. Second column is the most I can imagine that they might get, given the ncaa. Third column is what they’d get if I were the head ncaa-hole. (credit Bruingirl83, I think?)
Death No No Yes
Years Probation 3 5 10 (if not death)
Scholarships Lost 15 24 200 (20 per year)
Postseason Ban Years 2 3 5
TV Ban Years 2 3 5
As for secondary violations, maybe 3 or 4 by LoID.
No way Lame lasts three years. I don’t think Garrett lasts three years, either.
Garrett part of an NCAA deal
If there are institutional control issues (does the sun rise in the east?) in the view of the NCAA and an effort is made to settle by sc, then common sense suggests Garrett must go. All the other offenders are gone (Sample later this year, Floyd, and now Carroll) so if why not offer up Garrett in exchange for one year less of a post season ban? This supports your Garrett gone within 3 years analysis.
Three points. First, I am guessing, I am running my intellectual mouth on various levels about whether sc would offer up their AD and how the NCAA would react to such an offer. Second, sc wants to settle. Look at the offer they put on the table in terms of the basketball sanctions. The NCAA may demand more than sc’s opening offer but it is a sign they are serious about settling. Three, the sc people (particularly their frightened lawyers) are weak. Their unwillingness to answer a single question about the merits of the NCAA investigation shows they have no courage. So if they try to settle, they could offer up Garrett.
by peggysue69 on Jan 14, 2010 6:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Good thing
you put your “does the sun rise in the east?” rhetorical before “in the view of the NCAA,” because the answer to the rhetorical changes when it comes after…
I think you’re right about the self-imposed BB penalties being a let’s-settle-this overture. I just hope the “settlement” adequately airs the dirty laundry. None of this we-didn’t-do-anything-wrong-but-we-won’t-do-it-again stuff.
Credit to Bruingirl83, correct!
“NCAA-holes” is one of my all-time favorites.
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
I was wondering...
It’s the arrogance. I’ve been following the whole thing haphazardly, but the arrogance about how Norm Chow was obviously going to return to $C, just because, was intensely annoying. Why would you stay at UCLA and work for Neuheisel, when you could come to $C and have to work for a kid who is a obviously a punk? When you hear stuff from arrogant people living in a dream world, sometimes you believe it for a second. So I was wondering… but then it was nice to come back to reality and live in a world where things make sense.
Great Qs
1) All wins while Reggie Bush played; lose 2004 Nt’l Championship; loose 5 scholies and 2 year post season ban
2) 0 will get reported and at least 5 actually committed.
3) Yes. He will stay through all the NCAA crap because expectations will be lowered and he can then try and bring the program back from.
My picks, which are based on the stern measures tne ncaa has used against just$c* in the past.
First, a list of the stern measures in the last few years:
1.
2.
3.
You get it.
Now the answers to the questions.
1. 6 years probation. This is because even the ncaa says just$c* is a repeat offender.
2. 10% of their scholarships a year for three years, and 5% for the next three years (I don’t know how many scholarships a team gets a year.)
3. I think he lasts for three years. I think he’ll be fired after his third year, with just$c* finding a replacement way in advance this time. I’ll go out on a big limb here – I think the replacement will be Cheatie Petie, who will last less than three years in Seattle.
Kiff's replacement
I was thinking the same thing Fox. I don’t see Petey lasting long in the NFL and even if Kiffin was doing well at SC, they would gladly force him out to have Carrol back. The only problem is I don’t see Barkley staying past his junior year and you know Carrol would do everything he could to draft him. If that happened, I don’t see Carrol coming back to SC without his bf/bff around.
1) 5 years probation, 15 scholarships lost for 2 years, 10 lost for the next 3 years
2) 3 secondary violations between now and Feb. 3rd (counting the Ogre’s calls)
3) I’m with Fox – he lasts 3 years then gets fired after that 3rd one – Heisman Barkley’s senior year – after a 7-6 season
Has there ever been a player better than Detlef Schrempf?
Why Norm stayed
It’s quite clear why Norm stayed at UCLA, besides that it was meant to be.
Why would he join a program on the way down, about to get smacked with all sorts of NCAA sanctions? $C won’t see another post season game in the next few years after the NCAA is through with them between the penalties and the fact they will never be that good without cheating." That and he’d have to play second fiddle to a young, pompous, egomaniac.
On the other hand he could be with a program on it’s way up, working with the cream of the recruiting crop, creating future Heisman winners, who won’t bring disrespect and sanctions on our program, working with a coach who respects his input.
Not a hard choice. Would you want to be on the way up, or the long hard fall into mediocrity.
1) 5 years probation, wins vacated from 2004 and 2005 seasons, 5 scholies lost over 2 year period, no post season ban.
2) 4 recruiting violations, including the one Orgeron pulled last night.
3) Facing the death penalty, after 3 years Kiffy takes HC job with San Diego St., calls it his “dream job” and “the only job I would leave SC for”, and Orgeron is heard in the background telling his recruits that he has scholies for them with the Aztecs.
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
Guesses
1) 3 years probation, 12 lost scholies (4/year for 3 years), and a cap on how many new scholarships can be given in those years. Restrictions on paid recruiting visits and recruiting trips by assistants. Wins vacated from the 2005 season, but no postseason ban or TV ban.
2) Including Orgeron’s calls from Knoxville, 9.
3) Yes. although it would be bucking his trend to stay at a job for over a year, I think he stays 3+ years, It will be tough for SC to get a replacement that they find worthy until after they are out of probation.
formerly bruinhoo
$UC will be Sanctioned for Lack of Institutional Control ... is that "Death"?
1) 4 year ban on post-season play, 25% loss of scholarships for each year, forfeiture of all games in which Reggie Bush participated, forfeiture of all 2009 games in which Joe McKnight participated, Recommended dismissal of Mike Garrett and Ed Orgeron for cause (failure to dismiss results in extension of probation).
2) Reported: 4 (not including Orgeron’s), Actual: We’ll never know
3) No. Garrett will be dismissed after sanctions are levied and the new AD will clean house. Lamie will be lucky to survive his first season.
In any rationally run organization, Garrett would be cashiered
You are right about Garrett being “dismissed” if hefty sanctions like you suggest are imposed but this presupposes a rationally run organization.
With this level of mismanagement in a competently run business, the manager would be led from his or her office to the parking lot by corporate security, his or her company credentials including identification and key cards would be seized, and the malefactor’s computer frozen.
But here is the “university” management of the athletic department rational to the degree they would treat Garrett like a manager who has failed in her or his duties? I don’t have an answer—so far Garrett has survived. And this involves athletics which necessarily involves emotion which is inconsistent with rationality.
One point where I view it differently, he probably won’t be dismissed if the NCAA hammer really falls, he will be “retired” because he wants to spend more time with his family. And in rationally run organizations, he would probably be permitted to retire.
by peggysue69 on Jan 14, 2010 8:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Sample's Legacy
Fantasy aside, I recognize that my above “predictions” are not bloody likely to occur. But I do believe there will still be some pretty hefty sanctions levied and Mike Garrett will pay with his job. Whether President Sample demands Garrett’s resignation or allows Garrett to ostensibly fall on his sword by retiring seems a fine point, Deep down, I suspect Sample’s still got a shred of conscience and integrity left and that ultimately, in an effort to preserve his legacy, he will hire an AD who will at least attempt to start cleaning up the cesspool that constitutes the $UC athletic department.
"I suspect Sample’s still got a shred of conscience and integrity left "
i disagree. There is absolutely no evidence of that. His legacy proves that he never had any conscience or integrity. How could a person with any conscience or integrity allow what happened in his athletic program to occur?
OT
but what happens with the McKnight situation? From what I gather, this situation went down after the NCAA completed its investigation, but before they are due to convene to decide the penalty. (This would be equivalent to a criminal committing a crime after he had been convicted of another crime, and before he was sentenced for said crime!) Does that count as a “repeat” violation?
"I don't forget very much" Rick Neuheisel, 11/28/09
Not a "repeat" violation
The NCAA considers the repeat violation period to begin upon the publication of a violation report. Here, a repeat violation could not occur until the Bush/Mayo report is released and sanctions imposed (pending $C appeal), likely sometime in the Spring.
I see the McKnight situation more in the light of a a criminal committing a crime while on bail pending/during trial for a prior offense.
formerly bruinhoo
Guys, It's the NCAA...
1. Zero years. Zero scholarships. The NCAA will probably send $c* a fruit basket to apologize for all the inconvenience, and rip 10 scholies from UCLA for Norm Chow’s insolence.
2. He’ll commit two per hour, though none of them “knowingly” or “believed to be accurate”. The local media will not notice, being too enveloped with the “If Pete was the Humanitarian, Lane gets a Nobel Peace Prize” campaign, chaired by Shilly Smith.
3. Sure, he’ll be there. With no ramifications for cheating, Lame and Co will be able to “compete” with everyone. Ogre will literally kidnap UCLA recruits from the Suites at night and reappear them in Watts. Barkley will never forgive UCLA for destroying his dreams. Jerry Buss will buy the plasmas, cars, houses, and refs. Senora Ross will give A’s to anyone who has ever eaten at Taco Bell. The Daily Trojan will rank $c* first in its football poll and then claim it as another national championship.
We don’t stand a chance. It’s fool’s blue and gold. It’s over.
Ah, so this is how all those basketball game thread posts feel like, eh Nestor?
greg in denver - UCLA guy for life
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